Islam: What the West needs to know.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Old Man

 

Then I suppose David Koresh and Charles Manson speak for all white Christians.

How? They are not indicative of current 'christian' ideology. They certainly don't represent the views of mainstream christianity. They are nothing more than nutcases. Shunned and outcast by the leaders of the religion they purport to represent.

Now, about islamic leaders. Can we say that we have never seen an imam or sheik, call for the death of innocent people?

Do we ignore that simply because of people like david koresh? Do we say "well, people are nuts, ignore it..." or do we think "Hell, something is really rotten here and time and time again what has happeneed is applauded by their leaders!" ? and actually THINK about it?

Food for thought, or more ramblings? I know which it is, and so do all those who can actually see whats going on.

Has anybody actually watched the video? If you have please let me know what your feelings are especially if your Muslim.

reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


also look at this:

www.dailymotion.com...





[edit on 28-9-2008 by computerwiz32]

As an atheist, I'd like to just say that BOTH Islam and Christianity make the world a pissed off, violent, and scary place to live.

You two guys (Islam & Christianity) always show up uninvited, get intoxicated by your "good books", start making accusations against the guests, start a shoving match and then a fight breaks out, ending the party.

Really, if we wanted you at the party, we would have invited you.

Go home.

reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


I am a Muslim I seen the video they even sent me the dvd for free in the mail.

I saw this video but my feelings is that they show people who think they understand Islam.
They really don't.

It's like if I went out and start doing research on Christianity and find all the bad things of people done in the past and present that they say oh I done it for god and then I go out and get a video camera make a dvd and show that omg christian are really devil worshipers omg.... I mean come on.

The video is wrong. I also failed to see any professor. I saw there was a director from a website talking in the video and many others I don't fully remember if they had professor positions.


Islam is peace full people who follow it can follow whatever they believe. I mean there are alot of serial killers and they always say I killed people for god does it make him a follower????

Islam is peaceful it's the people who don't know Islam but calls themself a Muslims and makes up there own rules.

this is a problem in every religion. We get people following a religion but not strictly and they go off and add a few of there own rules to justify their actions.

The thing I can say is Islam is peaceful and yes Muslims had wars int the past and had violent past so did every religion it's not the religion it's the people in the past how they twisted the religion to justify their actions.

If you still don't believe me then go out and meet Muslims in your area and ask them. Ask about 20 people so you can figure out if it's peaceful or not..

The stuff on TV and on dvds and the internet are misleading saying Islam is a violent religion and wants everyone to be Muslims this is so not true.

We don't go out and force people to become Muslim. Islam say's that when a person wants to be Muslim we Muslims can't force anyone it's forbidden to force someone into the religion the reason why is the religion Islam requires you to submit to god. Now Alot Americans thinks that you must give up everything for god. This is not true. This just means you must accept him as your god in other words you must be willing to be a Muslims. So this means no one can be forced into the religion.

I am really telling the truth Now if you don't belive me then go out and talk with Muslims or go to the mosque

reply to post by whiteraven


Threads like this aren't for talking about it, however. It isn't an open dialogue of people discussing religious differences and respecting the faiths of others using facts and reason. Threads like these are designed to demonize one religion, in this case Islam based on typical western non-understanding of religions and cultures not their own. It goes both ways, I might add. The only difference is the west has a much larger stick.

All you have here is people bashing one religion, and others defending it. Which is ridiculous because frankly, there is very little difference between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In my opinion it would be comparable to Methodists beating the crap out of Baptists. Honestly it's not worth it.

lakum diinukum waliyadiin . . .

reply to post by harrytuttle


What are you talking about??? I am lost here.... What are you talking about... a party???

I am not shoving anything here I am just showing legit facts that should get people to do their own homework on this instead of going crazy and start hunting every Muslims down to kill them because the religion you think or was told which was wrong would mean your killing the bad guys when in reality your just going crazy and nuts after listening to people that twist the words of the religion.

It's important to know that if you don't know Islam you need to get to the source don't learn from it from some webmaster that host a website and makes videos against a religion.

you take what the crazy guy say's and then you go and find a first person source people that are in that religion and ask them to explain if the crazy dude is right or wrong.

Then you get a 3rd source which is nutrial to either idea...

This is the best way to learn don't just accept what a person that has no Idea what Islam is to teach you about it since he has no idea.

If you want the truth then get to the source go and talk to Muslims.

I have alot of friends that are American and are currently in the military they are young and join the military because he said that Muslims love killing Americans and it's my duty to send them back to hell. I tried talking to him but he doesn't budge he tells me to explain CNN and I do explain to him but he repeats the same thing so I just stopped talking about it to not start some type of fight.

So to find out the truth you take a professor from a university statement and then find a professor that is Muslim and take his statement and then ask Muslims about this.

You will then find out the truth that Islam is a peaceful religion just like the others.

This is all I can say. I am sure people here still wont listen to what I have to say and listen to some DVD.

You might as well what CNN and Fox News and only those staitons So you can get a full dose of brainwash and then act upon those.

I mean come on do your own homework and talk to both sides you can't just agree with a one sided story to say oh yes Islam is evil .

With Islam i see nothing more than what other dogmatic religions have all been guilty off throughout history.

It's just battling now to become the ruling empire, so the few can become powerful at the expense of the majority.

The slaves that follow it are told the world will be a better place and promised this and that, that they're unique and special compared to rest of us sinners etc. etc. lesser people so in their ignorance will support the world being turned into a empire of their belief.

Yet they don't see the same old circlular paths of their problems resulting because of the religions in the first place.

Jesus put it as they're sheep to be herdered by the sherperds, Mohammed put it as the warlord commanding his solidiers.

The believers are nothing more than slaves that can be abused to the sheperds and warlords at anytime.

When the empire of Islam is established how will you gain????? Will you become rich overnight?? Will you gain superpowers??? of course not, nothing will happen or change like nothing happened under Christanity or anyother religion that claims the impossible.

Books will be burnt, ideas shunned, everything that threathens the empires existance and the few from staying rich and powerful will be slandered and dis-creditited and the sheep will gladly go along with it.

And then comes the excuses from the warlords and leaders to the sheep, It's such and such's fault blah blah blah and the endless fight over nothing rages on as factions turn on factions blaming each other of an unprovable idea.

Or more writings or a new prophet suddenly appears that add's this and that to the religion when people start questioning things and the people think woooow that makes sense and go back to their ignorance not realising the prophet was merely produced by the empire in the first place to carry it on.

And the sheep just lives in ignorance producing more sheep, hoping their belief comes true living in poverty (as you think 50,000 is a good wage compared to the billions people like the Saudis and the Pope makes yearly lol???)





[edit on 28-9-2008 by SR]

Originally posted by SauberBMW
okay whatever, believe what you guys want to believe

im not going to argue cause its like talking to a wall, no matter how many times you tell it to move, it wont move.

all your guys research is based on the net but you won't go to an official source like a mosque but that's okay. Im not gonna force you guys nor preach you. it's up to you guys.

I occasionally visit a mosque with a church friend who's job is to do ecumenical work. I've also worked with delegates of the Grand Mufti of a certain anti-Israel nation in a conference setting. I’ve met many good-hearted Muslims and have discussed issues with them, so I understand both sides of the issue. (And, yes, talking to them can be like talking to a wall too!)

Muslims are deep-hearted and devout people on a whole. They love Allah and will do almost anything requested of him. For example, Ramadan is not a feat most other religious people would consider doing. It's not an easy task to fast (no food or drink) during daylight for a month. But such faith can also be a problem. The faithful obey their religious leader without question. So what the people believe and do depends on the quality of heart and wisdom and sectarian viewpoint of their Imam. If the Imam is anti-West, his “congregation” will be anti-West. If the Imam is peace-loving, then his members will be peace-loving.

What the OP stated can't be denied as having some truth to it. Indeed, there are certain sects of Islam that advocate the literal interpretation of the Quran's instruction on jihad and the chopping off of heads of non-believers. We got a good taste of that during Al Qaeda's early efforts in Iraq. We saw it with the Taliban. Considering this, you can’t deny that in this modern day there are some Muslims who do not practice the peaceful form of Islam.

Well, just to keep things in perspective, let's consider some of those off-shoots of Islam:

Wahhabism seems to be the most troublesome sect of Islam, as it is the backbone belief of Al-Qaeda. Here’s how the Middle East Forum think-tank defines the problem:

Al-Qaeda represents Wahhabism in its purest form – a violent fundamentalist doctrine that rejects all non-Wahhabi Islam, especially the spiritual forms of Islam. Wahhabism is an expansionist sect intolerant of Shi‘ite Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and Hinduism; in fact, Wahhabists seek to challenge and destroy these faiths. The Saudi-Wahhabi threat must not be underestimated; it requires our grave attention.

Source: www.meforum.org...

Then there are those Muslims that follow the Quranic viewpoint of Sayyid Qutb. His advocacy for offensive jihad was adapted by most Islamic terrorist groups since the sixties. A 2003 New York Times article referred to Qutb as the “Philosopher of Islamic Terrorism” and that he was “the intellectual hero of every one of the groups that eventually went into Al Qaeda, their Karl Marx.” (query.nytimes.com...)

While you may not consider Wahhabism or Qutbism to be legitimate forms of Islam (at least judging from you comments that Islam is a religion of peace), still, we have to consider to what degree these radical forms of Islam are being supported by the general Muslim population. Whether their teachings are not true versions of Islam or not isn’t the real issue. The issue is how many Muslims believe in this extremist form of Islam. (Btw, the “peaceful” mosque I visit periodically has the writings of Sayyid Qutb in their library. We’re talking middle-America.)

So maybe this thread needs to focus on what percentage of Muslims believe in this Al-Qaeda form of Islam. The following links give some indication of this percentage:

www.metimes.com...)

www.washingtoninstitute.org...

(It appears that 7% of Muslims can be considered radical and in support of Al-Qaeda’s form of Islam. That's 93 million Muslims out of 1.3 billion Muslims. Still a lot to worry about. But that doesn’t address the percentage of Muslims who “somewhat” believe Al-Qaeda terrorism is justified.)

www.humanevents.com...

(More than 100,000 Americans Muslims support Al-Qaeda.)


[edit on 9/28/2008 by Matrix1111]

Ok, lets take a little look at the Christian bible..

1 Samuel 15:3 9 (NSB)
Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

And after passages like this, you are going to claim that violence towards other beliefs only appears in the Koran? You gotta be shi**ting me, right??

I have more from the bible where that came from. The problem is that ALL religions and fundamental mindsets will spring off factions that will justify the worst sorts of evil. If you know anything about the history of the crusades, you will realize that the Christian atrocities were every bit on par with the Muslim.

Actually, I know where this is going. It's another attempt at a scare tactic so that the western world will once again hold their rationality in abeyance as it's leaders do what they will! Mark my words, you are going to see much more of this lying propaganda in the coming weeks. Oh God, deliver us from religions!

[edit on 28-9-2008 by whatsup]



[edit on 28-9-2008 by whatsup]

reply to post by whatsup


But therein lies the problem....All sides are using scare tactics for the same goal the christian empire wants to stay in power the muslim empire wants that power.

Two brothers or sisters could be born one sent to live in the west, one sent to live in the east.

Both grow up to be everyday folk yet blame and hate each other's side of the world and religion for the problems throughout the world.

Not noticing the common factor in their lives that produces the hate, that we're all just pawns to the idealogy.

It's in the interest of the people in charge and in power to keep fueling this so of course you'll as always be seeing propaganda on both sides like the pot calling the kettle black.

reply to post by SauberBMW


Go to a mosque and find out? Like was said earlier, there are 2 types of muslims, and I'm sure the ones down at the corner suburban American mosque have not been exposed to the true side of islam. Islam is NOT peaceful, regardless of what they tell you in your mosque. Go to the middle east and see for myself? I see enough on tv. When was the last time you saw a Christian suicide bomber?

reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


The Jews were judged by there own law:

Deuteronomy 20:10-12

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies

This incident only occurred after Banu Quraiza broke a treaty, which empowered opposition forces to attack the Muslims. The Jews who upheld this treaty were allowed to leave without punishment. Looking into the texts, it was Banu Quraiza who agreed to have Sad make judgment, look at all the narrations in Sahih al-Bukhari. Sad was the same person who warned them before this 25 day siege took place, and they told him to "Eat his fathers..."

The warriors (anyone eligible to fight) were executed for harboring criminals. America attacked Afghanistan's Taliban Gov't. for doing the same thing: harboring criminals (al-Qaidah).

The problem is most of you already have an opinion and then look to sources that support that opinion. If you are indeed truthful, look at the whole situation and then form an opinion.

reply to post by slicobacon


I watched the history channel about the Crusades. I've seen the news about Christians killing abortionists and promoting hate against gays. I've seen Christians in the south promote hatred towards those who are not white. So therefore by your reasoning "I see enough on tv", Christians are also NOT peaceful. Get the point? Believing everything you see on TV and not trying to find out the other side of the story just shows how gullible you are. TV news/shows/documentaries are all skewed in some way to promote what their beliefs are and to use that as your only source of information is pretty sad. It just shows how much of our society have become couch potato lemmings and accept whatever they see on tv. I know this will be a stretch for your small mind but do you think it's possible that there could be Radical Islams as well as Radical Christians?

Originally posted by whatsup
Ok, lets take a little look at the Christian bible..

1 Samuel 15:3 9 (NSB)
Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

And after passages like this, you are going to claim that violence towards other beliefs only appears in the Koran? You gotta be shi**ting me, right??

Yes the bible has many passages like this but in no way does God or the bible tell us to kill non believers and those who don't convert to our belief's. Did Jesus ever kill anybody? NO! Did he preach the killing of others? NO! Muhammad did, he slaughtered thousands if not ten of thousands of Jews and other infidels in Allah's name. Do Christians strap bombs to themselves and murder innocent people in the name of their god? NO! So please don't pull that card.

reply to post by computerwiz32


Here is tales from people, who knows islam best, the muslims:

www.faithfreedom.org...

reply to post by slicobacon


When my parents came to this country they were frightened there would be racism everywhere they went mainly because of what they'd seen on tv. Yes there was racism but it was few and far in between and not as bad as it was portrayed on tv. I bet you'd experience the same thing if you went to the middle east. There would be some Radical Islams yelling for the downfall of America but the majority of people would be just as nice and respectful as your neighbors. Don't let a few rotten apples spoil the bunch.

The Bible ends with the peace and love of Jesus Christ, who has never commited any violent act in his life. He preached love. The Quran has
Mohamad, not the most loving prophet in the world, compare the two
together? (sorry if I mispelled anything).

peace.

Ahh yes, Islam, the religion of peace. Let's take a quick look at some of things their great prophet Muhammad did, or advocates.

1. Have sex with nine year old girls

2. Advocate beheadings

3. Require women to cover their faces

4. Approve prostitution

5. Recommends wife beatings

6. Hits his own wife

7. Advocate suicide attacks

8. Beat children who don't pray

9. Behead boys as young as 13

10. Approves sex with minors

11. Kill those who insult him (Muhammad)

12. Keep women as sex slaves

13. (my personal favorite) Encourage the rape of women in front of their husbands

Whoo!

Wherever Muslims are, there is mass murder, rape, terror, pillagings, and demand after demand.

They come here, and expect us to bend to their religion, and expect us to change OUR way of life. Yet, if we went to oh I don't know... say Saudi Arabia, or Iran, and made demands to meet Christian ideas, or tried to preach our religion, we would be hung, perhaps publicly.

They still base their life in the 7th century, so what else are you to expect besides barbarism?

Don't give me the whole oh not all Muslims are bad, etc etc. I know this, but a MASSIVE amount are pure insane, hundreds of millions of them would advocate your Christian, Jewish, Hindu head to be lopped off.

I advise you all to check out the truth about Islam

Don't be fooled.

Excuse spelling, no time to check.