Can anyone define what God is?

[edit on 30-9-2008 by freedom2]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Jesus also said "Bow Not down to me for I am your Fellow servant, but to thy Lord Thy God."
Jesus didn't say this. An angel did. Revelation 22:9

This thread is fascinating ....and there are a few people who in my opinion truly know who God is ....I was blessed by your posts ..and I do not think I could even define it any better than some of you did...

I would only add that he is HOLY ......he is LOVE ..he is WARMTH...he is KINDNESS ...he is MERCY ....he is also our FATHER (Has all authority and is all powerful) ...he is also very Protective .....he is JUST...he is in everything ....and he loves his creation ...he is a Scientist ..lol ..he is very creative ..lol (he made me didnt he ) ...he has a sense of humor ......but he can get irritated too (he gets that way with me I am sure lol) ....

Really it is very hard to describe all that I think God is ..and is about ..
I believe though that we can find out ALOT about GOD by looking at all things that he has created .....................

Originally posted by newagent89
reply to post by Lasheic

 

If you believe in a God who created ALL things then he must have created the concept of something's "whatness". For that matter, he also created the concept of creation as we perceive it and the concept of concept as we perceive it. Because we could never understand God fully, faith and a desire to approach Him in love is what is virtuous.
[edit on 30-9-2008 by newagent89]

I wouldn't venture so far as to say that god created all things, or that he perhaps would even need to - as we can see from nature that certain phenomena and concepts are perfectly capable of self-organization and expression. I don't think faith was expressly created by god, but is more of a byproduct of creation.

I personally don't subscribe to the idea that god is omnipotent or omnipresent. Rather, it would appear to me that god's relation to the creation is more likened to that of a mathematician creating a fractal image - rather than that of an artist painting a picture.

Also, why are primates a great choice for god's chosen creation? Why not any other particular physiological configuration? There's really no evidence to say that the primate configuration is optimal for worship of god. Also, to say that god chose humanity to be his chosen due to the particular primate characteristics would be limiting god's power - something theists are notoriously unwilling to do. Especially in this case since it would seem to suggest what you have is to suggest that God is subservient to evolution. It simply doesn't make sense if you assume that god is all powerful and all knowing.

Originally posted by newagent89
reply to post by mullet35

 

Not going to answer whole question as I have talked enough but so you know: Catholic priests live lives without material wealth (15K-30K at most) and live in small homes on the grounds of the church. They have few possessions because materialism is seen to them as corrupting. This is true even at big churches. Their basic needs are provided for, but no more than that. The cars bought for the priests are usually high in practicality and longevity, not in appearance. Presents given on birthdays for priests that are not fridge drawings by elementary school kids are given to those in need. When it comes paying the priest to say Mass for those who are sick or who have died, the priest receives a stipend of around 5 dollars. This is more traditional and respectful than a source of income.

They pay both sides of S.S. taxes: From wikianswers: "strangely enough, they are 'employees' with respect to federal and state taxes, but 'self employed' with respect to social security."

Even bishops with their robes, ring, and crosier staff are not wealthy. The only reason they are worth more is because they have to pay for extensive, non-leisure, travel. Their personal effects are basically the only capital they have.

Lay off the priests.

There will be no laying off the preists I live off 10K a year and I want for nothing and that is Australian dollars not american and as for being paid for their duties it should not be, their place of residence and food should be supplied and they to should want for nothing else. If you find youself in hard times they give you a small parcel of dry long life products to help and yet the very same supplies are not good enough for the preists if Jesus did in fact walk the earth like people say he did did live in his own space (dwelling) while the poorer walk by or did he supposedly walk amgost the poorer population. As for the Catholics they are the worst the amount of famine around the world and yet the catholics still sit on the vatican city sell that place off and donate 100% to the needy when they start doing things like that then they can be taken seriously.

reply to post by freedom2


Hi freedom2,

You may be right as I have been doing a little research and it does appear I have made a mistake.

I am certain I have come across this saying by Jesus in other Scripts and have been trying to find it but have been unable to at this stage so for now I may have to confess I am wrong on this statement.

When I get time I will however search further into this for both of us.

Perhaps others my be able to clarify this...

Thank you for your valued input..

I too make errors I can't deny this.

But now I am interested as I am being nagged by the thought I have read this in one of the Gnostic writings or another some time ago so I feel the need to look further for us both.

T this stage I will accept what you say until I find otherwise...

If I do I will let you know first.

reply to post by freedom2


Hi freedom2,

Just noticed in one of your scripts Quote:-


"And if Jesus is the truth and the way to that light"

This is also incorrect He did Not say this!

He said... "T am the Way, The Truth and The Light!"

and in other text he said "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life!"

And in The Gospel of Thomas... "I Am The All."

Interesting.

But thank you for your comments I will have another look regarding my own statement that you think I am wrong in.

You still might be right ....

But it is good to have some keep us on our toes and correct us if we are wrong.

I am always willing to accept reproof, as this is part of learning.

I look forward to more comments from you in the future.

Ok, you want the deal on god, here it is. Somewhere, out there, there is some other being(s) that exist in states we can't fully comprehend or perceive. Ever wonder why among so many religion there are so many similiarties when you get down to it?

Could whichever god you see be what part of the overall being(s) we think of as 'God' (big G) as defned to what/how we perceive the world? Its liek when meeting a new person and seeing in them what we want to see depending on our upbringing. Where a mistreated malcontent might see an enemy, mark or obstacle, another might see a guardian or source of wisdom. That's how we see the world.

That's how I see it, which is why I am rather amused by the constant bickering between various religions and sects since in my perception, they're arguing about the same damn person.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
Ever wonder why among so many religion there are so many similiarties when you get down to it?

Because they share a common ancestral religion? Because they borrowed from each other?

If that's the crux of your point, then you have none.

Originally posted by dave420

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
Ever wonder why among so many religion there are so many similiarties when you get down to it?

Because they share a common ancestral religion? Because they borrowed from each other?

If that's the crux of your point, then you have none.

Correct! The evolution of religion is fairly analogous to the evolution of language. As time goes by, the singular root religion of humanity would have splintered and diversified according to the local culture it was worshiped in - then further splintered off again. Through trade, travel, and conquest - features of different divergent local religions would be merged into the now dominant religion. Much like how new words are added to a language. The reason why so many religions have so many similarities does not necessarily reveal a hidden divine origin, but rather only a similar source. Humanity itself.

reply to post by newagent89

Why would God ever create the world and put people into it if His intention was just to give us all his incomprehensible secrets?

Why not? Why would god want to keep secrets from his created peoples? Is not one of the common saying here on ATS something to the effect of, secrets only reveal a malicious intent - the truth and peaceful intent never has anything to hide. Usually used as a slander against Freemasonry for their secret meetings and traditions.

Not to say that the saying is right, but it does beg the question - why would god want to keep secrets? Why, when asked, would he refuse to tell his creation the truth? Does this also mean that god lies and is deceitful? If only by silence and allowing our faulty assumptions of him to perpetuate? (faulty assumptions that, I would remind you, have caused several millenia of wars, persecution, and slaughter)

The Bible doesn't go beyond in wisdom what mankind can understand because it was inspired and written for the people of this world and the world of 3000 years ago.

This makes no sense to me. God can create the infinite universe in all it's form and splendor, even creating man himself - and yet he cannot make man understand the truth about god and the world around him. God is thus confined to working within the social attitudes and understanding of mankind at the time. Clearly mankind is capable of understanding a great deal more about the universe and our place in it than what the bible is authored torwards, and I don't see humanity ever hitting a wall of not being able to understand certain things about the universe. Certain phenomena may puzzle us for several millenia - but we will eventually figure the puzzle out.

Yet we are essencially the exact same creature which strode the Earth 3,000 years ago. We have the same mental capacity as those the bible was written for.

It is infinitely interpretable and a great piece of literature

Infinitively interpretable only means that it says nothing definitive, nothing at all, and thus cannot be seen as a source of divine wisdom. I can point to any number of abstract paintings that are infinitely interpretable - but none of which would be divinely inspired.

If God wanted the world to go on normally, why would he break stride and reveal the origin of the natural world to primitive people who wouldn't know how to understand it?

If god wanted the world to go on normally, why would he break stride and reveal himself at all? In for a penny, in for a pound. If this is some sort of grand experiment, then revealing himself in ANY capacity would have tainted the experiment and slanted the inevitable results. Why reveal himself at all, if what he is going to reveal is untrue, insubstantial, and only applicable for a certain very brief time period?

God made it and masters it but he is not going to egg along paradigm shifts. He is not some sort of divine alien that is going to come in and physically give us technology to build a pyramid.

No, and I wouldn't expect god to. However, what he supposedly has said about his creation I would at least expect to be accurate on at least the very basic levels. None of the genesis accounts from any of the worlds religions have it accurate on even a basic level of understanding. Nor do they accurately represent the actual workings of the universe. Noah's Ark, for example, is a laughable fable that has no bearing in reality what-so-ever and is contradicted by damned near everything we know about how the world works. Perhaps it is just parable, but then, why include absolutely no metric for defining what is supposed to be taken literally and what is to be taken as fiction?

We need God so we can have an understanding of the importance of learning.

I don't agree with this. Especially as it seems that the most religions people tend to be the least concerned with learning and education. Many religious people even see education as the antithesis of faith, and seek to subvert science and discovery in the name of religious dogma. For example, the Wedge Strategy.

Do we need god for our physical bodies? While I have faith in god as a first cause to reality, I concede that god is not truly a necessary factor for the creation of the universe. We need god for our souls? Well, first off, I would ask... what proof is there of the existence of the soul? What we consider to be a soul, may just be an illusion of consciousness and self-awareness. We do not currently have a comprehensive understanding of consciousness, but that is not necessarily reason to attribute it to the metaphysical.

Again, I really see no profound or divine wisdom behind any of the world's religions that leads me to believe that it could not have been authored by mankind.

As an example of such, I would present this wonderful video series authored by an ex-devout Christian couple from Texas. They do a wonderful job of highlighting the social and ethical inadequacies of the bible that reveal it to be written - not by a loving and just omnipotent father figure - but by bigoted and unenlightened men in a savage period of our history.

An honest search for truth.



[edit on 1-10-2008 by Lasheic]

reply to post by Lasheic


Hi Lasheic[,

Ye I would have to agree with you on this point of view.

Quote...

[ Correct! The evolution of religion is fairly analogous to the evolution of language. As time goes by, the singular root religion of humanity would have splintered and diversified according to the local culture it was worshiped in - then further splintered off again. Through trade, travel, and conquest - features of different divergent local religions would be merged into the now dominant religion. Much like how new words are added to a language. The reason why so many religions have so many similarities does not necessarily reveal a hidden divine origin, but rather only a similar source. Humanity itself. ]

This is why the pattern-work, you find in most temples, I am referring to the geometric art, that is believed to be just decoration today, all comes from the same expressions of Life.

But what does this art work, really portray or represent?

As it is not even mentioned within their own peoples.

I have just returned from China and the Buddhist Temples I visited there, are full of the same geometry, that can be found in Western and Byzantium Churches, as well as Moslem Mosques and Hindu Temples. We can also find the same Geometry as decoration in many Government buildings all over the world as well as in Palaces.

But No one even talks at all about this geometry, so what is the story here.

Most think of a moral codes when religion come up.

But perhaps that is all that is left and the ancient knowledge has been lost to the world?

It is Written in The one of the old Christian scripts...

Jesus said, " Many are around the drinking trough but the cistern is empty."

Was he referring to the lack of knowledge, within these groups of people, because the availability of knowledge had dried up, due to lack of knowledge passed on within the teachers?

So the important knowledge disappeared leaving superstition and a code of moral behaviour, left for many to argue over.

This would keep the masses busy and no one would even enquire any more about Geometry, except to say isn't that a beautiful looking building,

Besides one should remember that in The Roman kingdom, the so called
"Holy Roman Church" was a part of Government in those days, back 1,500 years and more.

But my Question still remains, What Does The Word "God" portray or Identify, What actually is God Made of?

In the Next Couple of days I will let you all know my thoughts are, regarding The Word "God" and what The Word portrays.

But anyway thank you for your Valued Input Lasheic[, which goes a long way in drawing out the hidden truth.

I look forward to more of your honest comments in the futur,

I have also started another thread

But I will keep this one running at the same time....


[edit on 1-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Lasheic


I think the problem comes from:-

as you Quoted:-

[ Why not? Why would god want to keep secrets from his created peoples? Is not one of the common saying here on ATS something to the effect of, secrets only reveal a malicious intent - the truth and peaceful intent never has anything to hide. Usually used as a slander against Freemasonry for their secret meetings and traditions. ]

That is Humankind that brings this situation on in the struggle to try and get power over others.

so humans have a certain influence over the others by making a mystery out of something when there is No mystery at all....

Another good Contribution by You I think you have some very good understanding in these matters.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Sorry to confuse you but I wasn't doing a scriptural quote here. That was just a poem I wrote.

reply to post by freedom2


Hi freedom2,

Yes I realise that.

Please don't misunderstand me and take offence but this is what happens through the whole of humanity and why ideas change and information goes missing through history.

I am as much to blame as anyone else, but this is why so much has been lost from the past, especially when it comes to any writings.

So I am glad, you reminded me of this situation and I trust you will also understand the human nature in this world... LOL..

Once again thank you for your input, and hope to hear more from you in the future.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Alright (last word....lol).

Originally posted by Lasheic
why would god want to keep secrets?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to answer 'for a very good reason' to this question, but don't fret - I'm going somewhere with this.

There are two facets of Christian belief that God should have most definitely kept secret, if he wanted to reward the honestly good people and punish the honestly bad - heaven and hell. By telling everyone about heaven and hell, he gave evil people a chance to act nice and get into heaven. If he was for real, and not just a construct of early civilization designed to keep law and order when there was no legal system or police force, he should NEVER have told us that.

But he did. That, for me, is the most damning aspect of Christianity's divine origins. It is clearly intended to effect behaviour, not to create good people.

reply to post by dave420


I agree. Although further, another damning aspect of Christianity to me is the concept of heaven and hell to begin with. Why would a supposedly just and loving god only give his children one shot at eternity, and then offer up such arcane and barbaric rules for entry that good people can fail and that evil people can pass? Wouldn't a more Buddhist system such as reincarnation be a better solution, introduce a system into which evil souls can be converted to good - and the true evil sorted out?

I recall seeing a special on the history channel (warning: BS alert) about the rejected gospels and one of Christ's secrets being that ALL people go to heaven - but the eternity in hell is just a ruse. Hell is a temporary stay where sin and evil are burned away leaving only the pure spirit to eventually attain heaven. The greater the sin, the longer the stay in hell to purify the soul. However, be that the case, why bother creating this world and this reality, if freshly minted souls could be pumped out of wherever and then have their sin burned away before their de-facto entrance into heaven? The human lifespan in only about 80 years on average, and much much less so in biblical times. Contrasted against supposed eternity, what is the point of our time on Earth considering both the above points?

In me at least, it invokes more a sense of nihilism, than of salvation.

I would still content that if god is real (and I think he/she/it is), then he/she/it has little concern for the daily affairs and eternal fate of the human race. Some would say this is a more nihilistic viewpoint, but I would disagree. I would argue that it puts all the more importance on us to make our own lives meaningful - because while I don't profess to know what happens to our consciousness after death, all signs point to this life being all that we have. So we should make the best of it for ourselves and our fellow human beings.

reply to post by Lasheic


Hi Lasheic,

I would agree with all that you have written.
Your thoughts are like the reflection of my self, at the beginning of discovering what I have.
This is how all this tarted with me in 1973...

An excellent post from you, and a major contribution.

If I may quote you:-

"I agree. Although further, another damning aspect of
Christianity to me is the concept of heaven and hell to begin
with. Why would a supposedly just and loving god only give
his children one shot at eternity, and then offer up such
arcane and barbaric rules for entry that good people can fail
and that evil people can pass? Wouldn't a more Buddhist
system such as reincarnation be a better solution, introduce
a system into which evil souls can be converted to good - and
the true evil sorted out?"

The heaven is nothing at all like what is being taught by "the churches of humankind".

We look down from what is known as heaven right now, into the pit or Hole
where the Holograph of the universe is manifested in our own Souls.

Each of the Souls has a manifestation of its own Universe within the Soul, and all are interconnected by a Lattice work of Light....

So how can anyone go to heaven if we are already there?

The Earth is Not in fact where we are, it is only a Holograph that we experience.

The True Mind, or what we think "our" Mind is, is actually looking from heaven and does not walk on the earth.
It is the Human Primate that we experience, that is seen to be on earth.

The Human Primate can Not ever go to heaven, because it is only a Holograph... A picture of interactive Geometry, in the form of an Organic or biological Robot, that is controlled to some or limited degree, by The Inner Mind that we call the Human Mind.

What we call the Human Mind is Not, I Repeat Not the mind of The Human Primate, but is in fact our real selves.

As The Christ said through the Carpenter Jesus, " I Judge No Man"

The Christ is All forgiving as it is Not, I repeat, Not the Human Primates that do the Works, but is Rather The Fathers Workings.

The Father, Refers to The "Outer" True Mind which was before, The "Inner" True Mind as The Inner True Mind cam From The Father or Outer Mind.

This world is Not about right or Wrong, but is about The Birth of "The Man Child"
"The Man Child" is The "Inner" Soul that has been implanted in the Outer Soul.

The Word God refers to The Creation Machine.

I will show you in a later thread the proof of this understanding.

Humankind is so barbaric they are worshipping a machine...

I would Like to suggest All read an ancient script called.

The Thunder Perfect Mind

You can find this Script on the Net and it is only a couple of pages long.

It is a Description of the Living One, that is Called Christ...

Humankind is Dead, as humankind is only a holograph, but the Living One is The Mind, Both "Inner" and "Outer".

Humankind go back to the Ground or Hell, where they have come from, but The Mind returns to the "Outer" True Mind or Life.

This is Why The Christ said, Through The Carpenter called Jesus,

"I go to My Father"

He is talking of The Mind....

Or I Go to the Outer of My Self (Self being The True Mind)..

But as for me, I am but the smallest of All, the "Nothing"...

So I commend you on your Excellent Post Lasheic, and hope to read more of your enlightened words in the Future.

Thank You.