A more alien-like economy (that can't fail)

badmedia, you seem to be adressing your own ideas, rather than mine. Communism? I did grad study in US history and have read quite a bit about it, but we're talking about aliens on this thread. They don't use the word. Instead, there's a more universal interpretation of commonality, shared resource in the universe. And don't mistake me: that isn't the same as the human notion of "communism."

Your name-calling (like yelling, to me) runs in circles and simply concludes that you don't want anything to do with aliens--if they're communists, as you infer. Meanwhile, their idea of resource isn't "ecnomics" in the human sense. It's just that simple. You can't begin with a notion of Marx or Adam Smith, Schumpeter or Friedman and adequately discuss an alien society (although a classless neo version of equalitarian society is certain in found in all inter-stellar alien societies).

I challenge you to be more open and honest about the subject. We're talking about populations that outnumber humanity by many trillion-fold, probably in the quadrillions. THAT is the place where we live, not just this one small planet. If we don't at least begin to discuss alien ideas of economics we wear blinders---like an ostrich with its head in the sand. Alien planets have survived but I don't see any chance for a completely free market planet to survive---it would ruin the ecology, making it an easy takeover prospect.

There is no completely free market economy on this planet. There's always state intervention and regulation. Read Naomi Klein's book Shock Doctrine for a first-rate economic analysts report on the absolute failure of Milton Friedman's notion of total free markets. If you assume a primitive, everyone for himself, stasis here, you don't see the very real, very near human future. The strains converge: global warming and drought, overpopulation, dead zones in all delta areas of the ocean, the potential abuse of the new technologies (directly owing to aliens, in many cases), alien intervention and a breeding program/infiltration phase, and more. Add to that the huge potential of disclosure, as strains tighten, and we see the likelihood of rapid social changes--very soon.

Governments will have more power, not less, during such times, so we need to see far ahead, even into alien social dynamics, to steer clear of the hazards that we most certainly will dunder into if we leave it all to the whims of corporations.

Originally posted by mystiq
We live in a world where currently everything is owned and patented by the elite. So things would have to change in order to create a world that benefits and empowers ordinary people. You can't even set up alternative communities easily.

Patent laws are screwed up. They have been for awhile and that doesn't have anything to do with the conversation.

If alternative communities were what people wanted, then you would be able to easily set them up. But since it's up to the people to choose, thats not acceptable to you. Instead you feel this must be forced on people? 1 second you say alternative communities wouldn't be easy to setup, and yet a nationwide or worldwide alternative is supposed to work? So basically, you wish to legally route out the competition so that your idea of the perfect world can happen?

And we live in a world where there is an enormous amount of people born into and forced to endure unjust communities that are not aquainted with true human rights.

Which would be a crime.

Simply reinstating the US constitution is not going to resolve the worlds problems. As well, there still exists a police court and a police state.

Those things are not part of the constitution. They in fact go against the constitution. You keep acting like the US is following the constitution and making arguments against the fascist government of today. The constitution has been FLIPPED and changed from a document of freedom to a document of slavery.

Does medical services exist for people as well and schools? Who pays for this? Taxes? Who decides what things should be paid for, a select few constituionalists, or an educated (not being done to much now, mainly misinfo) public.

Umm who do you think pays for it now? The communities pay taxes, those taxes are sent to DC and then DC decides how much they want to send back, after the lobbyists and corporations get their hand in it. So like duh, the people will pay for them.

I wouldn't pay for a system of prisons and authority. In the current system of money, unless I see my tax dollars boomerang back into my community in universal medicare, and superlative programs for people, they will be taking money out of my dead cold fingers. So I don't quite know what you're talking about. This world works for only a few capitalists. Most people are suffering from it enormously. This has to change! The world is
not capable of enduring any more abuse, so this has to change.

Of course if you were just giving your dollars to the place directly, then it wouldn't be a problem would it? You are so narrow minded you only know how to argue against the current system. And so simplistic that you figure the opposite must be true. We do not live in a capitalistic society, as I have said multiple times now. We live in the system you want already, you only disagree with the people in charge. You merely want to be the elite yourself.

Furthermore, I am not going to give my power away to any solutions that are not grass roots win win solutions for every single man woman and child on this planet, in every country and every region. No one is an island. Everyone is born in a shared community. The doctors, hospitals, schools and even the roads you drive on are connected to a shared community.

You are not giving your power away to anyone. Thats the entire point of what I'm talking about.

So lets say you liked Clinton. You decide you wish to give this man the power because you trust him. Well guess what happens? GWB comes in right behind him. And since you've already given that power away, then you no longer have the choice yourself and you are screwed. Wake up.

Let me know if you ever decide you don't need or have the right to control another humans life. It's been done before, it's called slavery. No thanks.

Originally posted by gl2
badmedia, you seem to be adressing your own ideas, rather than mine. Communism? I did grad study in US history and have read quite a bit about it, but we're talking about aliens on this thread. They don't use the word. Instead, there's a more universal interpretation of commonality, shared resource in the universe. And don't mistake me: that isn't the same as the human notion of "communism."

The education system is so screwed up it's not even funny. Rather than teaching people how to learn and understand, you are taught what to memorize. Date memorization is no good here.

As Einstein once said - any fool can know, the point is to understand. They only teach you what to know in school.

What do aliens have to do with philosophy and systems? Nothing. They are merely an image you are using to try and pass this off as being something of higher intelligence. They are simply a variable in an equation.

Your name-calling (like yelling, to me) runs in circles and simply concludes that you don't want anything to do with aliens--if they're communists, as you infer.

I want nothing to do with anyone who isn't intelligent and honest enough to respect another persons free will and freedom. If they do not respect the individual, then they are offering nothing more than slavery.

Meanwhile, their idea of resource isn't "ecnomics" in the human sense. It's just that simple.

And this is more proof that you are full of it. Economics is nothing more than the transfer of energy. To even suggest that is just plain nuts.

You can't begin with a notion of Marx or Adam Smith, Schumpeter or Friedman and adequately discuss an alien society (although a classless neo version of equalitarian society is certain in found in all inter-stellar alien societies).

I have never once mentioned them at all. Do you even pay attention? These things are just VARIABLES of an EQUATION. I don't care what images you want to put in the variables, Marx or Aliens. The equation is still the same.

I challenge you to be more open and honest about the subject. We're talking about populations that outnumber humanity by many trillion-fold, probably in the quadrillions.

More open an honest? You are the one who can't even introduce this system without pushing out the idea of aliens. The only thing you are doing is using aliens as a tool to push your own idealogies along. Because nothing you have mentioned is new. All you keep saying is - "It's aliens, and it's not like the others, this time it's good". Which is just plain old lies.

But I haven't even tried to debunk your so called alien references. Why? Because it doesn't matter, this is about economics, and they are just a variable. Maybe you should start being more honest.

THAT is the place where we live, not just this one small planet.

Another lie. I don't live on any other planets, and I've never even visited them.

If we don't at least begin to discuss alien ideas of economics we wear blinders---like an ostrich with its head in the sand. Alien planets have survived but I don't see any chance for a completely free market planet to survive---it would ruin the ecology, making it an easy takeover prospect.

Pollution should be illegal period. Nobody has the right to pollute another persons environment. For someone so educated, why are you unable to understand that free markets don't mean there is no such thing as illegal actions? Could it be because it points out how bad your argument is? Regulations and such only go to legalize pollution for a select group of people.

There is no completely free market economy on this planet. There's always state intervention and regulation. Read Naomi Klein's book Shock Doctrine for a first-rate economic analysts report on the absolute failure of Milton Friedman's notion of total free markets.

No there isn't any free markets on this planet. Which is all the more reason why I wonder why you keep trying to equate the things that go on as being failed free market economics.

If you assume a primitive, everyone for himself, stasis here, you don't see the very real, very near human future.

No, you assume it means everyone for himself. Because you assume the worse in people if they have their freedom. Which is why you feel the need to force them to do such. Even though while America is the most taxed country on the planet, it's also the one that gives the most to charities. And that is not counting the government "aid" programs where they give money to a country so that they can buy goods from the corporations they represent.

The strains converge: global warming and drought, overpopulation, dead zones in all delta areas of the ocean, the potential abuse of the new technologies (directly owing to aliens, in many cases), alien intervention and a breeding program/infiltration phase, and more. Add to that the huge potential of disclosure, as strains tighten, and we see the likelihood of rapid social changes--very soon.

Good, I hope we do see such changes. Because the system you want is the system we already have.

Governments will have more power, not less, during such times, so we need to see far ahead, even into alien social dynamics, to steer clear of the hazards that we most certainly will dunder into if we leave it all to the whims of corporations.

I'll bet GWB and Cheney will like this. More power is exactly what these people want. Which is why you are no different than they are. Sorry, but I'm not interested in changing slave owners because this other guy is supposed to be nicer.

While you can push yourself off as being 2 groups, just like they do in politics. All I see here is 1 group seeking control over others.

When these "aliens" get a brain and understand that we are all connected and that our consciousness is god himself, which requires the respect of each individual and their free will and freedom, then let me know. You may think your "aliens" are all that, but I answer to and understand a higher power. That's right, I'm awake and alert.

And btw, if you actually do talk to aliens and such. Then all I can say is that I am severely disappointed. What a huge let down.

Political topic in alien forum.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by mystiq
I am a spinner and weaver, and artist. I do this no matter what things can be purchased because its my favorite past-time. Its very creative and helps me unwind. I love creating my own color combinations in yarn. Machines already do these things. Not as well as humans do however!

Oh, I agree. I'm not suggesting that people cannot do the things robots will also do if need be. But those things humans choose to do and create themselves will be valued in the heart (as opposed to being assigned monetary value) over things robots are programmed to do.

My point is not that robots will "take over" per se, but that anything that NEEDS to be done and that no one WANTS to do, those things will be done by robots.

Strength of character, human creations from the heart, these will be what are valued. Not money.

reply to post by badmedia


You seem to think a society that has no responsibility to provide a civilized base level of living to all of its members, but still has the teeth needed to enforce roads and infrastructure and environmental laws is a free and the only idea. You ignore the fact that ownership of nearly every aspect of life on this planet has already been acquired by the elite and what is left over is in effect, nothing. And that is nothing being divided by the vast majority of billions of citizens. So who runs your prisons? It wouldn't be done on my money. I'd prefer arnarchy to such a system where the only equality and sharing done would be charity, and everyone would have to become a begger instead of equalizing and creating caring, decent environmentally sustainable communities.
There is a chance that the current financial system is going to collapse. Equalizing will be done, but in the wrong direction, with many families losing jobs, house and belongings.
This is an opportunity for those who have the vision to pull people together, however unless they have land already secured and paid for, many of these groups will form with very little left and survival will be next to impossible. It will be very hard for them to plan the next steps in networking sustainable eco villages. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't know whether this is going to happen for certain. Perhaps the predictions and disclosures are wrong, and there are true patriarchs working behind the scenes to bypass the worst scenarios. All I can hope for is that should the worst scenarios begin, and peoples lives start to unravel, that they don't try the every man for himself, and revert to savages, but start to group together and share whatever resources and tools they have. In an emergency situation I'd try to erect a native style villages. Hard to talk from situations of such hardship that we don't know about yet.

My family has had lifelong experience (abductions in our case, however despite this group being associated with elite humans in the beginning, it has apparently broken away and is on missions much more like the kind that Jim Spark's works with). My son spoke of being shown dates and events lined up for October. He remembered this while looking at the calendar, and saw himself in the space craft. He can't remember anything about why he was being shown the significance of October. Every other day, something was going to happen. All big things? How could they be. Smaller events that may lead to bigger down the road? Anyway, all within a couple of weeks he has been shown dates, a viewing screen with some kind of history lesson and a crashed ufo with injured greys, an actual grey before sleep that our guard cat did not take to at all, was growling at near the door, and just 3 days ago, 1 1/2 hours of missing time while he was watching a show around midnight and went to get a snack. Sufficient to say the show was over when he returned a few minutes later. Thats why I'm saying this groups seems a little like the ones Jim Sparks talk about. I was planning on putting our own crop circle up on our glass doors, a picture of a human taking a leak on a grey, only to discover that he said no, they're nice!
When I was 5, my memory was with greys and nazis! Also hybrids, lots of children. We were clinging to the nazi, nearly fainting from terror, but now this group of ets has separated from that agenda and is doing mass education of the public? Not sure.

My point is, there are things ahead of us that will bring out either the worst in humanity or the best. I'm very sad right now, had a very negative impression of earth's future come last night and havn't been able to shake it yet. Really, Though this argument is about politics, I want to step out of that box for a moment and say, all of you count so much.
If things start to break apart find others to stay together with. Find a way to go with you heart and conscience. Don't disintegrate into gangs and violence against fellow citizens. Reach out towards each other. Meet together in the town halls and in public and work out strategies to set up camps for groups. We can do it! Anyway, hope my fears get blown out of the water!



[edit on 23-9-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by badmedia
I work in an environment(at home) where my boss pretty much lets me do whatever I want. And as a result I am able to compete with companies that employ many many more people. I can easily work 60 hours a week, because it's comfortable and enjoyable.

Compete? disqusting idea? What would happen to those companies after you won over them? Let them jobless to become criminals over you?

Compete? what is competition? it is a duck hobby!

No, you can't work 60 hours, not even 1 hour for a non-paid job!

I can pay you more what your current boss pay you TO ROB others and make more money for me. That's the competition I give you, you give me good money $$$ so that I can pay you good money! You will work like a pig for me and you will work as it is a free will.
But to me you are a pig slave. CLEAR ENOUGH!

It is simply child play.
Hey kids, work harder, I have more chocolates for you! go and win the trophy, fight hard, work hard, compete hard, you know you can do it, bring back the pride.
Well, you get all the chocolate if you get the trophy for me, and at the back I profit more than you!



It is just like hanging a carrot in front of dumb arse!!!!!! and here you go kid, grow up will ya?

reply to post by joinats


Compete doesn't mean take other companies over or put them out of business. In fact, we actually work and are connected with all our competitors and vice versa. Pretty much the standard in our business for certain reasons.

To be competitive simply means we get a good share of business.

I believe the word you are thinking of would be dominating the competition.

Originally posted by mystiq
You seem to think a society that has no responsibility to provide a civilized base level of living to all of its members, but still has the teeth needed to enforce roads and infrastructure and environmental laws is a free and the only idea. You ignore the fact that ownership of nearly every aspect of life on this planet has already been acquired by the elite and what is left over is in effect, nothing.

That is what the community is for. And this is the problem I have when trying to debate this. People with your point of view seem to feel that if you are not in favor of the federal government providing these functions, that it must simply mean that there will be nothing in it's place. When that is not even the case. We all need healthcare, we all need education etc. The only thing in question here is where the power in that lies. When you have it centralized as the OP has suggested it should be, then that is when you get the elite. Which is exactly why the elite push for more centralization of power. Because the more you put the power in 1 place, they less you need to do to gain complete power.

And of course these kinds of people are always going to pass it off as being good. Just like they pass off things like the Patriot Act as being good. Once you've given that power away, then it's extremely hard to get it back. As we are finding out in our current situation today. Thus the need for the power to be decentralized and spread out among all the citizens. So that if corruption gets in to 1 place of power, there are still many other places to object and try to fix that. Where as when you get corruption with centralized power, the corruption automatically is spread amongs everyone and there is nothing to stand in it's way. Thus why every dictator and such in the world ALWAYS centralizes the power. And why people like Saddam crush anyone who dares step in and take power. It is to keep the power centralized with them.

And that is nothing being divided by the vast majority of billions of citizens. So who runs your prisons? It wouldn't be done on my money. I'd prefer arnarchy to such a system where the only equality and sharing done would be charity, and everyone would have to become a begger instead of equalizing and creating caring, decent environmentally sustainable communities.

Prisons for social crimes? Which is what the majority of people are in prison for should not exist. Social crimes only go to make the people hate the police force.

As for anarchy. That is the IDEAL society. But it can only exist in a society where evil is not present. Thus why I said earlier any alien species that has forms of governments has evil within it, and evil tendencies. Otherwise they would not need a form of government at all.

There is a chance that the current financial system is going to collapse.

This financial system is a scam. What is happening is being done on purpose. Why? To centralize the financial system and put it in the hands of a few. It's been happening for many years, going back into the 80's. That is why you see less and less banks.

Equalizing will be done, but in the wrong direction, with many families losing jobs, house and belongings.

No, the middle class is being wiped out. That is what you are seeing. If things continue with the centralization we will have only 2 classes. Upper class and the poor.

As for your fears. You should have none. If you have fears then it is because you do not really understand the nature of reality. I have no fears. I can die tomorrow and it doesn't scare me at all. The thought of a nuke being dropped on my head does not scare me at all.

You need to ask yourself some questions and start to seek answers. Not on the outside, but from the inside. What is consciousness? What defines you? Your body? If you are your body, then how does your body belong to you? It's "Your" arm. "Your" head. "Your" brain. These are all forms of possession. If they are your possession, then it is not actually YOU. So what are YOU?

The earth is merely a school. We are quarantined because we have evil here. Or as the bible says, removed from the garden to protect the tree of life.






[edit on 23-9-2008 by badmedia]

We need an international authority, i.e. the World Court, that can simply rule against polluters, those who sell weapons into conflict areas, and those whose covert policy is to sabotage entire nations to make them easy economic prey.

The idea in the initial post is that a central data agency, coordinated by the member states, is needed to report and make sure that all fractions of the sustainable whole add up (to the number one, or the alt-cycle integrations of it in terms of energy). Without that, no economy is safe, nor is the planet. The idea borrows a leaf from many reports (including my own) about aliens and alien resource use, hence the comparison. Again, absent that basic standard, there is no guidance of the planet's ecology.

More to the point, an alien economy isn't "centralized," for one obvious reason. Alien physics (i.e. the scalar and "negative-cycle" physics we now see here in dark states, Bose Einstein condensates, and electrogravity/zero-point) aren't premised on a Cartesian coordinate kind of point-singular mathematic. Instead, the energy comes from much more deeply in the vacuum--and it isn't infinite. So, alien physics doesn't point to a central notion, as does the old human idea of thing-like particles and concretes. Instead, all quantum phenomena are smeared out into space, often in more than one place at the same time.

That's important because it's the very concept that frames alien societies and alien social and resource sciences. Sure, they have governments, but not the pin-headed elite version that we're stuck with, at present. An alien version has an integrated technological network that certainly requires tightly integrated use of energy, coordinated on multi-global scales, but there's a measure of freedom in some alien socieities because they don't necessarily have a single president, and they aren't still stuck back in the neo-aristocratic refuge of the nation state.

Instead, their nations are more like states are within a nation, but government can be more in the people due to simple transparency and equality. When you have that, the fear that causes panicky people to call others names and try to demolish their reasoning is gone. So, it isn't even premised on a notion of centrality but is entirely construed in terms of their advanced physics: deeper cosmic connectedness (but very precise, very real, present day). Of course, their phsyics comes at a price: use of scalar energy runs the clock on the continuum. It's called delta t, or change in time--as Bearden writes, because use of electrogravity/zero-point energy/scalar (all the same) marginally speeds the flow of time in the surrounding space, while time at the focus of electrogravity seems to be slowed (i.e. "dark states" where light freezes to a stop, or when lasers are converged to actually cool atoms). It's all premised on a seemingly invisible potential connectedness of intense energy fluctuations in space, called "negative energy"---places where energy can be "less than zero," locally, yet can connect on a larger scale, phenomenally.

Alien socieities have survived. They've largely gotten over the juvenile crises of elite greed and animal competition for markets and power. Our notion of nations and economy are both bound into that primitive paradigm. To survive well and remain independent, a planet must get its act together on a global scale. If it doesn't there's an animal frenzy to be first to fish out oceans, sell weapons, level forests and overpopulate. All of it is a juvenile phase, compared to our inter-stellar neighbors. There's no excuse for such stupidity when we're actively in contact with aliens.

500 years ago people thought you needed a king to keep a country safe. You needed nobles and alliances, wars for advantage. Our notion of economy comes directly out of that paradigm. Fast forward ahead thousands or millions of years, as is NOW the reality on trillions of alien worlds, and the ideas begin from a different premise.

So, you absolutely need global controls, global agreements, and transparency. Otherwise, it's disaster. But the very notion of centrality is primitive because an alien resource system is premised on energy use, which is only central in one basic respect: the universal ecology. If aliens violate the universal ecology, guess who lets them know they need to shape up? The neighbors, more advanced aliens---very real, binding trade and treaty authorities who tend to offer help and advice yet maintain a distance so that the troubled planet can either learn to be responsible for themselves... or perish. What's the structure of alien governments? Read about them: see Phillip Krapf's first two books, read Coevolution by Alec Newald, and Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs for a start. And think about those many other reports by people who report on direct interactions. *Watch out for those Big Brother tendendies among some alien groups---which is all the more reason to be more honest, and open, about aliens.

That's the reality, right now. To hide here and pretend that it's all about Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, Citibank and Credit Suisse, is irresponsible (either give them what they want now, OR ELSE, says former Goldman water boy Henry Paulson---it's basically a stick-up, isn't it?) Rather than hack it out in primitive, inadequate terms, we need to open up: disclosure, the real science models that determine black budget and NATO state policy, not the window dressing sideshow that NASA is trapped in. And aliens.

When the collective genius of many millions, if not billions of years of more advanced societies is already here, offering ideas and advice on how to maitain a long-term, sustainable delta t ecology (use conventional power mostly, and use scalar energy only in fine-scale research, maybe some minimal f.t.l. space flight), think of the disasters that we can avoid by simply listening, paying attention and discussing it all more openly.

It's a paradigm shift. Look at the sources. Read the best reports on aliens and their societies. It's no mystery--how they live.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by gl2]

Originally posted by gl2
We need an international authority, i.e. the World Court, that can simply rule against polluters, those who sell weapons into conflict areas, and those whose covert policy is to sabotage entire nations to make them easy economic prey.

Pardon me, but this sounds all too much like NWO. You can say this sounds good, but... What happens when economic interests secretly bribe the court, or put pressure on in the form of threats. I tell you now, this would be wonderful IF we take the object (that which is loved) of the root of all evil (money) out of the equation. And the only way to accomplish this is through free energy.

Until money is out of the equation, greed and avarice will haunt us.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Pardon me, but this sounds all too much like NWO. You can say this sounds good, but... What happens when economic interests secretly bribe the court, or put pressure on in the form of threats. I tell you now, this would be wonderful IF we take the object (that which is loved) of the root of all evil (money) out of the equation. And the only way to accomplish this is through free energy.

Until money is out of the equation, greed and avarice will haunt us.

It is the NWO. What he is talking about is exactly that. He's just using aliens as a way of trying to push the agenda. Like we are supposed to assume it's all good or something. When the truth is, if they have government then they have evil. Government is an always has been a "necessary evil" on earth. Because evil exists, control and defense is needed. If evil is not present, then control is not needed.

It's the same ole song and dance, which is why I doubt he even has contact with aliens from another place. If he does, he's being mislead. It's nothing more than god cop/bad cop to try and make people forget - it's still a cop(not a complaint against cops, just an example).

He is completely confined to his own perspective. Trade out aliens with a normal person and you can easily see this is nothing new. He won't even actually address any of the issues being brought up. Just goes to the "alien" cop out.

I do disagree that money is the evil that is the problem. It's not exactly money that is the problem. It's the unhonest monetary system we have today that is bad. If it was just done to ease trade between people, then it would be great. You can't really get rid of things having different values, which is money in another form. But we shouldn't have people who can create money as much as they want to give to the people who will push their agendas.

reply to post by gl2


Why do you refuse to address any actual points being made. Everytime a point is made that makes you look wrong, you keep coming back with "alien". It's the same thing, but it's different because "alien".

Yes, you will lose control, but it's ok because "alien".

Everyone must submit to the power, but it's ok because "alien".

It'll be different than other communist governments because "alien".

Give me a break already. Be honest for a change here. I see right through you. As I said before, I don't have contact with aliens. I have higher contact. I am not blind and I'm not dumb. You are just insulting peoples intelligence expecting them to believe it's different because of "alien".

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Pardon me, but this sounds all too much like NWO. You can say this sounds good, but... What happens when economic interests secretly bribe the court, or put pressure on in the form of threats. I tell you now, this would be wonderful IF we take the object (that which is loved) of the root of all evil (money) out of the equation. And the only way to accomplish this is through free energy.

Until money is out of the equation, greed and avarice will haunt us.

It is the NWO. What he is talking about is exactly that. He's just using aliens as a way of trying to push the agenda. Like we are supposed to assume it's all good or something. When the truth is, if they have government then they have evil. Government is an always has been a "necessary evil" on earth. Because evil exists, control and defense is needed. If evil is not present, then control is not needed.

Oh, I'm with you on this, I assure you. I was being gentle. [smile]

It's the same ole song and dance, which is why I doubt he even has contact with aliens from another place. If he does, he's being mislead. It's nothing more than god cop/bad cop to try and make people forget - it's still a cop(not a complaint against cops, just an example).

Yes, I have my suspicions, too.

He is completely confined to his own perspective. Trade out aliens with a normal person and you can easily see this is nothing new. He won't even actually address any of the issues being brought up. Just goes to the "alien" cop out.

Indeed. In fact, I was hoping to have the free energy thing addressed directly. He has avoided that. Avoided discussing things with me entirely, it would seem.

I do disagree that money is the evil that is the problem. It's not exactly money that is the problem.

I didn't say money is the problem. I basically said the same adage of the ages: The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. And as long as there is money to love, some will love it and do evil to get it.

It's the unhonest monetary system we have today that is bad.

ANY monetary system is bad, because it relies on money. The money is still there for people to choose to love.

If it was just done to ease trade between people, then it would be great.

Even if you start out with these intentions, it will become corrupt. Money-loving people will move in and that will be that.

You can't really get rid of things having different values, which is money in another form.

Money itself has no value. We assign "value" as in buying power to it, but it boils down to an accounting device for energy, of which, in today's world, there is a finite amount. Yes, different things are valued by different people. But we can pay attention rather than money as a mode of "purchase." IF we have unlimited energy and the tech to produce what we need. With unlimited energy, money becomes moot.

But we shouldn't have people who can create money as much as they want to give to the people who will push their agendas.

Agreed. But we shouldn't have money at all. Free (unlimited) energy is within our reach and some (Elite) have grasped it already. The common human is not allowed to have it because the Elite know that if we get it, they can no longer "own" us.

Okay, my turn. Without a World Court, this planet is primitive. I don't mean a World Court that controls you, just a minimum level of accountability, isn't it? That isn't NWO. The NWO types want to avoid international justice, as they did in Pinochet's case, with Suharto, Marcos, Mobutu, and all the other petty tryants of their regime. A World Court would simply be able to extradite child sex traffickers, David Rockefeller, Donald Rumsfeld and such. Or at least it could create a larger milieu that will restrain them.

Either of you ever travel to any of those NWO-victim countries? I've been in Russia and China when both were under their pre-Glasnost regimes. I went to Guatemala to write about and publicize the massacres caused by CIA death squads. I covered the 1992-3 elections in Indonesia for Pacifica radio network, again as part of a writing project to bring attention to another CIA genocide victim country.

All government is evil? I know a number of astute anarchists but they don't try to fob that off. Government can be abused, but it isn't all evil. More to the point, this entire planet is but one tiny, tiny part of a very large universe. That's the discussion in my posts. *Also, read my book for trenchant, in depth criticism of aliens.

Ever notice how the best people on this site don't try to demean or crap on other peoples' opinions? Try doing that in any public forum. They'll toss you out in a flash because they have to at least listen, usually respectfully. So, b.m. when you go on a tear intended to elevate yourself above those who express different opinions, you won't dissuade them of their opinions. Please, folks, don't be intimidated by anyone's bluster or name-calling.

This discussion is best staged essentially off of the old planar surface, the 2-3 dimensional limitations of old concept. To adequately discuss an alien resource strategey, that's probably necessary. It's good to see on a larger scale. There are many good ideas out there.

So, it's all up in the air--for anyone, however, sweet or idealistic or optimistic, or doubtful to sift and weigh.

**I've been on N. American media discussing aliens and never once, to date, has anyone even talked disrespectfully. That's the basic public attitude about such subjects---mostly intense curiousity.

Oh, re free energy. What you don't know, what you'll learn through more advanced physics is "delta t." It isn't entirely free and Tesla himself caused a standing wave to create a small earthquake in New York City. But to use such without having to pay, if regulated and carefully counter-balanced (the energy drain, its orientation and its possible seismic or atmospheric effects) and done within safe, global conventions, why not?

reply to post by gl2


Hello GL2, I found this thread very interesting, I'm not sure I believe you about the aliens part, but I do see it possible and I'm finding your ideas/the alien's ideas interesting.

I'm very curious about these beings you talk of.

I was wonering if it's possible when you have the time or when you feel like it, that you could make a thread about your experiences and how you contact these beings from another place etc.

It's up to you.

Peace.




[edit on 23-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Sure. I've posted chapters of a book I was writing--before it was finished--on ATS, at intervals. I did all the chapters on another website as it was in progress. Coast to Coast interviewed me for three hours, again before I'd finished the book. Now it's coming out in print but you can read an e-version at www.alienmindbook.org.

To convince you about aliens is hard in one thread. Here's what I'd suggest. Read Disclosure by Steven Greer, then read The Threat by David Jacobs and either of Dr. John Mack's books. After that, if you see anything in those, you'll steer yourself best in choosing what to scrutinize. The subject of aliens is tricky---there's so much disinformation and fawning, uncritical repitition in some quarters. But there's abundant excellent info out there. I put a list of references at the end of my book. I appreciate your skepticism. It's healthy, especially if you think in terms of good, or innovative science.

Before '95 I thought aliens were certainly possible, maybe probable, but thought the Einstein limint on propagation, plus the reported infinite mass as you approach c, the speed of light, prohibited much meaningful traffic here from out there. I dismissed the reports by former military and officials about aliens as possibly red herring intel info intended to hunt out leakers in their structures who might repeat improbable info. I didn't read about aliens or ufo's much. But then I found a deep vein of direct data, and had experiences. I know numerous people who've had direct sightings and other experiences. Each and every one of them suddenly had to find out just what was going on, subsequently.

*I don't mean to promote my writing. Instead, read others first. Alien Agenda, by Jim Marrs is usually the first book I suggest someone read. And if anyone you ever meet claims to have seen a ufo or had an alien experience, question them in depth, check their every reaction, their responses and how deeply felt, honest it all appears. Again, sort it out in terms of good science--allowing for advanced implications that are already outlined in the "new" physics, plus the reports of the best writers on such subjects.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by gl2]

Originally posted by gl2
Either of you ever travel to any of those NWO-victim countries? I've been in Russia and China when both were under their pre-Glasnost regimes. I went to Guatemala to write about and publicize the massacres caused by CIA death squads. I covered the 1992-3 elections in Indonesia for Pacifica radio network, again as part of a writing project to bring attention to another CIA genocide victim country.

Pointing out the bad things people do doesn't already make you right. I do not live the dualistic reality you seem to. It doesn't work that way. This is the same duality that is pushed on people all the time. Us vs Them. I thought you were different?

All government is evil? I know a number of astute anarchists but they don't try to fob that off. Government can be abused, but it isn't all evil. More to the point, this entire planet is but one tiny, tiny part of a very large universe. That's the discussion in my posts. *Also, read my book for trenchant, in depth criticism of aliens.

I was quoting the founding fathers of the US. I thought you took grad school classes on US history? Government is a form of control. It is only justified because other governments and evil people exist. In a perfect world, the society would be based on anarchy. But is only possible in society without evil, because you will allow the bad people to run amok. This is the reason the founding fathers gave us such a limited government with very precise jobs. THEY deemed it a necessary evil. I guess you were sleeping that day?

Ever notice how the best people on this site don't try to demean or crap on other peoples' opinions? Try doing that in any public forum. They'll toss you out in a flash because they have to at least listen, usually respectfully. So, b.m. when you go on a tear intended to elevate yourself above those who express different opinions, you won't dissuade them of their opinions. Please, folks, don't be intimidated by anyone's bluster or name-calling.

First off, it's not name calling when it's true. That's like calling Hitler a sadistic madman and him replying - why are you calling me names. The only thing even remotely close to what I've said about you is that you are a fraud when it comes the alien part. But once AGAIN, I do not care about the alien part, this is quite simply a political topic. You ARE using aliens as an image/symbol. I am not part of the puppet people, images and symbols do not excite me.

Second, I'm blunt about my opinion. I'm sorry I'm not your mommy going to sugar coat everything, and you aren't my kids. I actually do care about the country my kids grow up in, so I am as blunt and to the point as possible.

Third, I have read and addressed your posts paragraph by paragraph most of the time. Obviously I am listening, but you can't seem to return the same respect. You constantly ignore points made and keep going back to the alien thing. If you can't handle someone pointing it out, then start being honest and answering some things.

Please folks, don't let people fool you by waving images and symbols around like aliens and such.

This discussion is best staged essentially off of the old planar surface, the 2-3 dimensional limitations of old concept. To adequately discuss an alien resource strategey, that's probably necessary. It's good to see on a larger scale. There are many good ideas out there.

You think 2-3 dimensional limitations are an "old concept". But I know the illusion before me. More dimensions is just another box. Let me know when you get past the old concepts of "dimensions" and see the true reality before you. You change dimensions multiple times per second. It's called time. The universe is static. The only thing that moves in this reality is your consciousness. The things you talk about only exist are only an illusion due to your limited perception. They aren't real. While seeing and understanding more dimensions may be the next step for many, don't assume you are talking to them.

So, it's all up in the air--for anyone, however, sweet or idealistic or optimistic, or doubtful to sift and weigh.

**I've been on N. American media discussing aliens and never once, to date, has anyone even talked disrespectfully. That's the basic public attitude about such subjects---mostly intense curiousity.

I find the topic of aliens quite interesting. I like to "try on" as many perspectives as I can find. Because it brings understanding and knowledge. But what I do not like is someone using the alien topic as a way of furthering their own agendas.

If you want to talk about disrespect, how about the way you keep insulting peoples intelligence and hoping they will focus on image rather than philosophy and logic? Where is all your new knowledge on this subject? Why are you more worried about getting a certain kind of government, rather than educating and trying to get them to understand things for themselves, so they can make informed opinions?

As I stated before, this is a purely political topic. Maybe you should quit hiding behind aliens and post the topic in the political forums. If you think I'm being harsh on you, they'll have a field day with you over there. I've even given you the benefit of the doubt on the alien thing overall, haven't asked you to prove it or anything. Because it doesn't even matter.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by Amaterasu


Free energy would be nice. Or energy that is more free an abundant will be great to. It will certainly change things. But it doesn't account for peoples creativity and manufacturing which will be valuable. As soon as you have something of value, then you have by default created "money". Because money is only a symbol of value(even when it's a lie, as we have today). So I really don't see how you can get rid of money itself.

To get rid of money completely, people would have to have no need for exchange among them. OR, what is exchanged was free for them to create etc. Basically, you'd have to be able create matter out of thin air.

The conditions of society to not have/need money could be great. So long as it isn't like the USSR where we have to stand in line for food - even if the line is instant and the food is great. Because I do not believe or think it is right to depend on such things. As the saying goes, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I'd welcome it. I even had ideas for free energy when I was like 17 using magnets and things. My uncle told me I was crazy and it was impossible. And now from time to time I see similar ideas being implemented.

NWO is not the only ones who would want to see an international legal body, not only for laws, but for international free healthcare and to regulate human rights standards. I don't like our government systems, winner take all, and prefer proportional democracy which actually gives you the percentage you vote for and encourages the formation of many new parties, many of whom actually get seats, and many more women. In addition this system has grass roots ways for people to vote on things and put better pressure on the system, a system that has to negotiate because theres so many different people sharing the same parliament buildings. No one group can push its secret agenda down everyones throats as easily. What I actually believe in, is committees, much like jury duty, of average people from all walks of life serving for a year on overseeing groups, committees with large effective teeth, that overview the workings of governments, and all courts, including international and who can literally, if glaring omissions of justice occur, can suspend actions, overview the entire procedure, fire (yes fire judges) and even in the event of conspiracy imprison (yes imprison even judges!). Real teeth. Anything other than open transparency with everything published and public involvement and citizens groups overseeing all actions, is not a democracy and can easily be corrupted. For the most part, and concerning most things, regional or local bodies probably do things best.