Jessie Ventura attempts to debate a Firefighter at a Memorial on 911

There is a time and a place for such discussions, that was neither the time nor the place. For someone who was supposedly a SEAL, (and yes, that is very much open to interpretation) he made a poor choice for a battlefield.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

There is a time and a place for such discussions, that was neither the time nor the place.

Says you. With the clip shown I heard nothing inappropriate on anyone's part. Don't make more out of it then what is there.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by infinityoreilly


Coward? Another shot at his credibility,

You question my credibility...funny... you have never once pointed out where I have lied. Please feel free to do so.

Infinity.. your "notches" are not worth the sweat off my armpits.

I'll leave you now to your victory TY, I didn't question YOUR cedibility by the way.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but remarks like the one you made above about my "notches" and your "armpits" is just as disgusting as what your trying to imply Jesse of doing. Hypocrite.

now before the ATSGODS start banning people from heaven
for having a knee-jerk reaction
note: sometimes threads are started with malicious intent,
i believe we call such people "trolls"
the strategy employed here is an initial bait/sucker-punch
to be more specific in this case...
a character assassination based on groundless/fabricated claims
when the enraged step forward, the troll further antagonizes and frustrates
with further twists/spins of perceptions on reality

now i have more colorful language to describe this tactic
and also to describe such a person who would initiate such
but since we have been threatened to curb our tongues
i will sanitize my post of as much angst as i can muster

as with all matters...
the devil is revealed in the details or sometimes the lack there of...
and i think this is a good time to go back and review the hard nose facts
from beginning to end here's my best effort at a transcript
for those of you who are so heavily invested in being grammar police
knock yourselves out, i may have misheard a word or two and have my punctuation a stray, much like you'll find in most of my posts

here's the link to the article/audio-clip again for your convenience...
so you can proofread as you listen

bm:...it's more fire that needs to be put out.
...grey smoke... grey smoke... is... is... ah... it's going out... black smoke is intense fire

jv: Really? then how come when i throw water on my camp fire, the smoke billows way more then it does then when it don't?

bm: it goes grey when you put water on the campfire sir

jv: well... well... it takes away the oxygen

bm: that's correct sir

jv: to me the oxygen was leaving those...
they weren't getting hotter...
they were getting cooler

bm: well i choose not to be involved in any controvery over 911 sir

jv: i understand

bm: i appreciate your take...
however i am here to commemorate my fallen brothers and sisters

jv: i understand

bm: ...not to be involved in the controversy.

jv: i understand that...
and bless you for that...
and keep up the good work

jv & bm: (sounds like jv pats bm on the back and then jv clears his throat)

...
in summary ...
sounds like the very tail end of a civil discussion
as for the topic at hand and the time in which it occured...
to discuss the characteristics/behavior/science of smoke with a fireman
7 years after it occurred at the scene of the crime
one must ask themselves...
why would someone go out of their way to make this more then what it is
and color it a negative? and just as well... those who egged this along?
I see the same gang of players making the same rounds at every corner here. Collective efforts to twist/detour/discredit every individual, who questions what we have been told/sold on 911.

We all own that day, this is our country, our responsibility, our tax dollars, our military at work here and afar... we have all been either directly and/or indirectly adversely effected by what happened that day... emotionally, spiritually, mentally and financially. To smear anyone for exercising their citizenship, in the pursuit for truth and justice in what occurred that day and every day as a result, is simply treasonous. The simple fact remains, important simple questions still remain... unanswered and answered with flawed and false claims.

Ventura has done more in his life then most of us ever will,
let alone even dream of.
Minus his days as a wrestler, he has shown true character where it counts most.
Having served in the military, government and now in the public as a statesmen/activist/author asking the questions very few people in his position have the balls to ask, this man is a true american/patriot.

To say his motives are financial is beyond ridiculous, being a former governor, he could have sat on the board of any number of corporations and/or juiced his connections as a lobbyist... not talking to a fire fighter at ground zero on 9 11 08

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
How anyone takes this guy seriously is a wonder to me...

[edit on 13-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

How anybody takes you seriously goes beyond wonder and directly into shamefullness that we share the same basic biochemistry.

The bulk of your posts are character assisnation, and none of them contain any research.

I would like to see you post your resume next to Jesse Venturas and then ask who is more qualified to speak about September 11th.

You slander senators, scientists, engineers, and anyone that opposes your view. You harass Ultima1 to the point of immaturity that I cannot believe goes on here.

Furthermore, you present no real case other than your opinion is that Jesse made an ass of himself by debating someone that was there to mourn.

Jesse Ventura is plenty qualified to say what hes saying. It's his right as an American to say so weather he is right or not. He fought for your right to slander him publicly and his right to say it. Thats what makes America great. You are not looking for the truth, you are looking to debunk and flame.

Throat yogurt, I gotta admit, you're a pit bull. I just wish you weren't looking through a long tunnel.

You really do twist what people say here. You tear people apart without a twitch apparently.

Why is this allowed here? I mean you obviously have some kind of character bashing agenda.

You might actually see something if you would look outside your "box" of reality every once in a while. It wouldn't hurt you, you know.

Troy

reply to post by jprophet420


So, let me get this straight:

Jesse V can say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American.

However, TY cannot say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American?

Originally posted by jprophet420


The bulk of your posts are character assisnation, and none of them contain any research.

I can tell you that I have done more research than Jessie. I didn't have to assasinate his character. He did it himself.

I would like to see you post your resume next to Jesse Venturas and then ask who is more qualified to speak about September 11th.

Appeal to authority.

I am not one to debate live, but I am quite confident I would not have a problem putting him in his place.

You slander senators, scientists, engineers, and anyone that opposes your view. You harass Ultima1 to the point of immaturity that I cannot believe goes on here.

Jessie does the same.

Ultima follows me around from thread to thread echoing the same lines over and over. Try reading them sometimes.

Furthermore, you present no real case other than your opinion is that Jesse made an ass of himself by debating someone that was there to mourn.

You are right about my opinion. Mine may be stronger than others. As far as facts; Jessie has exactly Zero when it comes to the government being involved with 911. He is a media whore looking to stay somewhat in the spotlight. (my opinion)

Jesse Ventura is plenty qualified to say what hes saying. It's his right as an American to say so weather he is right or not. He fought for your right to slander him publicly and his right to say it. Thats what makes America great. You are not looking for the truth, you are looking to debunk and flame.

I never said the man DIDN'T have a right to speak his mind, try to read the posts. Timing of it is what bothers me. I have the right just like he does to state how I feel.


I looked for the truth and found it. I share what I found here and other forums. I debunk the garbage that is thrown up over and over. Jessie is just another one of those so called leaders that has added nothing in any argument of the government involvment of 911. But hey, you have another crack pot leader of the truth movement. He fits in great with Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by jprophet420


The bulk of your posts are character assisnation, and none of them contain any research.

I can tell you that I have done more research than Jessie. I didn't have to assasinate his character.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

I am going to stop right here. You can't tell me how much research he's done, so while you can tell me all you want its still a false statement.

And the appeal to authority logical fallacy only works if I am saying he is right and you are wrong based on his authority. I am saying he is more qualified to speak on the subject.

Using your logic busting skills it becomes apparent that I also can't say Stephen Hawking is more qualified to speak on physics.

Originally posted by gavron
reply to post by jprophet420

 

So, let me get this straight:

Jesse V can say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American.

However, TY cannot say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American?

No. TY can say whatever he wants also, I am just pointing out that it is utter poppycock.

I'm no expert, nor am I intellectually deficient.

My observation of most of the media coverage coming after this latest 9-11 memorial service is simply a well thought out smear campaign. Targeting Jesse for his questions about 9-11, and from where I sit, is the same disgusting tactics that only confirm to me that this thread is steered by agenda.

From this tiny segment of what is obviously a much longer discussion- Not an argument as some people are trying to twist it into. IMO this angle is meant to in some way discredit Jesse and the truth movement as being distasteful or out-of-line. Boo-Hiss! Jesse may be the fly-in-the-ointment, but I'm damn proud of his willingness to tread where few in the political system dare to go.

Is it out of the question to ask for a new investigation free of any government appointed people? My patriotic duty tells me this should have been done the first time around, yet was clearly and purposely avoided by the administration.

Does this whole thing change the way I feel about Jesse? Yes, now I want this man in the White House.


He was invited for the questions he has been asking.

cronkite.asu.edu...

Originally posted by jprophet420

I am going to stop right here. You can't tell me how much research he's done, so while you can tell me all you want its still a false statement.

Yes, lets stop right there. Jessie repeats claims that were made from Loose Change Videos and others. Let me put this another way.... His research is very limited by the substance of his arguments.

I guess the way I should have said it was: The quality of my research by far exceeds Mr. Venturas. How do I know? Listen to him.

And the appeal to authority logical fallacy only works if I am saying he is right and you are wrong based on his authority. I am saying he is more qualified to speak on the subject.

Why is he more qualified? You don't know me or my qualifications. His stupidity shines brighter than the sun.

OK, so I listened to the recording several times and I am at a loss as to where Jesse Ventura apparently offended so many people? The firefighter clearly wanted to talk about the smoke and when asked about the colour the firefighter backed down. I did not hear Jesse push the point, all he said was he understood then he said "Bless You". So all of you people who have taken offense are clearly seeing things that are not there.

If the OP's intention, by calling him an actor, WWF fighter or whatever was to discredit Jesse based upon his past careers then I would cast your eyes to the current Govenor of California Mr Arnold ex bodybuilder, ex actor Schwarzenegger or even further back to Mr Ronald ex actor Reagan. Are they to be discredited too based on their past career choices?

Personally I think Mr Ventura is a brave man and is asking the questions that not only rightfully SHOULD be asked but also WANT to be asked by many many many less brave people. The reason these people are scared? Because of people like the OP who make outrageous claims and assassinate character and have no factual based evidence whatsoever. Because of the fear of reprisal.



[edit on 16/9/2008 by Kryties]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
How anyone takes this guy seriously is a wonder to me. Former WWF Jessie "the body" Ventura yet again made a complete a** of himself trying to debate a firefighter regarding the color of smoke on 9/11/08. The firefighter took the high road:
"I choose not to be involved in any kind of controversy over 9/11, sir" said Marshall.

Marshall also said he was at the memorial to remember his fallen brothers and sisters - not to argue conspiracy theories.

source: www.ktar.com...

Here is the uncut version:

media.bonnint.net...

Thank you Walter Ego @Jref.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Jesse is a double edged sword. I think it's important to ask questions of your government to make sure it stays honest.

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
Benjamin Franklin


HOWEVER, trying to debate a firefighter while at a memorial is insensitive and of VERY poor taste. There's a time and a place for everything and that was not the place.

In addition, mr. ventura seems to be spouting the typical "truther" rhetoric without understanding what he himself is saying.



[edit on 16-9-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by Kryties



Nope that about sums it up.

TY, and Swampfox and crew are just here doing there jobs. Spreading disinfo as always.

We the regular posters though well, we are trying to hang on the the last bit of civil liberties we have left. Before the next False Flag operation.

Where G.W. or McCain Blows up a ship somewhere near the Middle East and Blames it on Islam (I suppose we'll be running anti- terrorism drills for the exact scenario that takes place at that very time as well, like on 9/11, cmon people are we as dumb as they think?, to buy into that coincidence, and the same one in the English train station?

I mean the coincidences, and lies and coverups, and destroying of evidence, and monies gained through prior knowledge are just so in your face you can't even see the lies.....?

Then they'll keep war going on somewhere for another 8 or so years, perhaps indefinitely, if the American and U.K. sheeple keep buying this crapola.

Sure Ventura is old, and he doesn't know much about 9/11, he's just started scratching the surface it seems, perhaps he's working for TPTB, who knows. All I know is 9/11 was pre-planned without a doubt in my mind, there were people in the upper tiers of the American and British governments that knew this was going to take place.

Originally posted by Nola213TY, and Swampfox and crew are just here doing there jobs. Spreading disinfo as always.

We the regular posters though well, we are trying to hang on the the last bit of civil liberties we have left. Before the next False Flag operation.

Where G.W. or McCain Blows up a ship somewhere near the Middle East and Blames it on Islam (I suppose we'll be running anti- terrorism drills for the exact scenario that takes place at that very time as well, like on 9/11, cmon people are we as dumb as they think?, to buy into that coincidence, and the same one in the English train station?

I mean the coincidences, and lies and coverups, and destroying of evidence, and monies gained through prior knowledge are just so in your face you can't even see the lies.....?

Then they'll keep war going on somewhere for another 8 or so years, perhaps indefinitely, if the American and U.K. sheeple keep buying this crapola.

1. How is using common sense spreading disinformation?

2. Questions do not equal proof of guilt, but merely equals suspicion of guilt.

3. Using the word "sheeple" to describe ppl who don't agree with your view of things is retarded and is a "bully" tactic. Fine.. Baaaa, we like logic and facts and applying common sense, as well as seeing respect applied where it is due.


HOWEVER, I think you are one of the few on this site that I have seen ask some VERY valid questions.. questions that often seem to be ignored because ppl are too busy trying to distract from them by NOT using common sense and looking at facts concerning the events.

sorry mom... i think you have some basic notions flipped around here
and as a result makes you a bit hypersensitive.
This should provide sufficient means for clarity
(i have referenced each of your points by their respected numbers):

1. "Common sense" is the knack of seeing things as they are...
not as you were lead to believe. When something talks and walks like a duck, common sense tells you that it's a duck. Much like 3 buildings collapsing, each one looking like a controlled demolition, common sense tells you that they are controlled demolitions. And in the case of coverups and lies, there are a long list of "coincidences", "incompetencies" and omissions which common sense tells you, that we are being lied to. Now to be ignorant of these realities and believing that you are using common sense when you are not, puts you in a mode of spreading disinformation, without ever knowing it.

2. Questions are just that... questions but when you consider that 7 years have passed and we still have valid questions unanswered, merits one to further question why. If this leads one to think this is proof of or a suspicion of guilt, there are certainly valid grounds for this. Common sense tells us, that if an individual or organization can not adequately explain their actions or lack there of at the scene of a crime, that points to a suspicion or proof of guilt.

3. "Sheeple" is an accurate term to describe people who do not use common sense and instead follow the herd... in this case the "official theory". There is nothing retarded or "bully" about this term, it's clever and accurate... based on good old common sense; if someone thinks and speaks like a sheep then one may point out that this person is a sheep or more accurately called a sheeple. Whether this is respectful or not, is a matter of interpretation. The fact is, the word is an accurate descriptor of what we come to see as the bulk of humanity or any species for that matter.

TY, and Swampfox and crew are just here doing there jobs. Spreading disinfo as always.

No, no, no. How many times must I tell you, I am here to spread hate, discontent, and paranoia.

Must work too. You and others like you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about little ole me.

I would just like to say that, having worked with Flame Retardant on metals, fabrics and wood for over 10 years, I can categorically say that it cannot be 'knocked off' anything by the force of an explosion. If an explosion was capable of doing that then the flame retardants used would never have been deemed safe and usable in the first place. Stringent tests are applied to make sure the stuff sticks and works.

Just thought I would add that

Originally posted by gavron
reply to post by jprophet420

 

So, let me get this straight:

Jesse V can say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American.

However, TY cannot say what he wants, where he wants, because he is an American?

ThroatYogurt is as welcome as any American to speak his mind. I fail to see how that takes away from the rest of us being able to ask him to back something up once in a while or make a cogent point, or not present small fires calling them proof of total engulfment. PS, Jesse was an American, in America. This is the World Wide Web, or are you so arrogant as to believe that only American standards apply at ATS?