Muslim extremists conspiring to overthrow Great Britain

Eyes Cry, Psychology is correlated to the human being. If you were disgusted after becoming Muslim, and refused to continue because of belief then you made a choice not to continue to study it. If you chose to be disgusted you should have chosen a better teacher. My teacher was a 30 year psychologist, psychiatrist, and she was going and getting her doctorates. This woman... my teacher helps all people of all religions and all colors, she doesn't have a mean bone in her body. When I asked her about religion she said that she would not go there ebcause religion was about personal experience. If we are all raised differently then certain feelings affect is differently. If that is possible that it is not possible that there is A religion. The religion of truth is the truth that we know and beleive within ourselves. And I will repeat again. No religion is based on fear or PRIMAL insticts of human nature. If you truely believe that God created us Humans... then you would know he was dissappointed in the creation that we were not good after all... Thats the one religion. So the religion teaches us that we are not good? Doesn't that stink? It sets us up for failure... WHile the real people in hiding that created the religion are flurishing in their hiding places. Religion was created as a shield to protect the Elite and control the population. They have to maintain order, when each religion fails they will produce the antichrist and christ... that time is near.

reply to post by rjmelter


whereas i think i understand what you are saying with regards to people, it is not that we are bad... this is what christianity teaches you...

WE believe as muslims that we are born in a pure, pristene state, and have been given free will to the extent that we can choose to do right or wrong...
we believe that man has been created for the soul purpose to worship their Lord, and we also believe mankind to be the most superior of Allaah's vast creation.

we do not believe that people are born bad etc (unless they are a devil in human form), but that they have the choice to choose the right or wrong path.

the following is a hadeeth:

Allah's Apostle said, "No child is born except on Al-fitra (natural state) and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian or Magian, as an animal produces a perfect young animal: do you see any part of its body amputated?" Then he recited 'The religion of pure Islamic Faith (Hanifa),(i.e. to worship none but Allah), The pure Allah's Islamic nature with which He (Allah) has created mankind. Let There be no change in Allah's religion (i.e. to join none in Allah's worship). That is the straight religion; but most of men know not..." (30.30)

so, now you know we do not believe in being born evil.
man is drawn to certain things in this world by his base desires, which are hightened by the whispering of the devil to one's heart...
the purpose of islaam is to submit these base desires and one's will to do things which go against Allaah's commands, in order that one may attain salvation.
the hereafter in paradise is full of felicity, no obligations etc, and this is for eternity... thus us striving in this world and struggling against our inclinations towards devillish tihings, when one believes in the Lord as He commanded, then this leads to eternal salvation, rather than eternal damnation

TAHNKS FOR READING

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

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Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
reply to post by rjmelter

 

whereas i think i understand what you are saying with regards to people, it is not that we are bad... this is what christianity teaches you...



[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

Im sorry....what??.......that was rather judgmental. for someone who doesnt believe's in not pointing the fingure...

reply to post by eyescryforALLAAH07

what the ummah (muslim community) want is a khilaafah which groups all muslims together so that they can live under the laws of their Lord and practice their religion freely, without hatred or prejudice and so they can exercise the morals of NOT walking down the street and hearing verbal abuse to old people, or to the youth slandering their mother, etc...
places are usually only warred on and conquered during this time if they are oppressing their people (like in burma, kashmeer etc) and this is to reinstate someone who will rule with justice, or if war is brought to the muslim lands...

Yeah, justice according to Islam, which by my standard is barbaric. Thanks for answering my question about what the phrase "those who do not fight you because of religion,.." means. It is just as I thought. personally, I find it appalling the way some young people act, but establishing Sharia law as a solution is cutting ones nose off to spite ones face. People have a right to raise their children the way they see fit. From my observation, all these nations who live under such strict religious doctrine stagnate and die as cultures, no thanks, I am will to put up with a little bad behavior.

Speaking of which, when I see a Muslim woman covered from her head to her toe, I feel the same way you do when you see a child disrescting his parents, but more so. Children do foolish things, and childhood is the time to do foolish things. A good parent knows how to guide their child through the foolish mistakes of childhood, and beating the child into submission isn't the answer. A good parent knows better. This brings me back to the way Muslims treat their women. Women are not children, and should be treated as adults. Just because the men can control themselves at the sight of a woman, does not give them the right to treat women like cattle.

As far as the honor killing problem is concerned, it is practiced across Muslim culture. Claiming that this is not true is pure denial.

From your responses, it seems to me that there is not much difference between moderate Muslims and Muslim terrorists, just a matter of commitment.

Personally, my belief is that the next life will not be simpler, it will be more complicated. Those who learned their lessons in life and learned to master higher levels of thought, which means studying subjects like psychologgy even if it makes you uncomfortable, will move on to the next higher plain, those who have made some success but not enough will be given another chance, and those who fail to grow and learn in their life times will have to take a step back.

If Muhammed had improved upon The Lord's Prayer, he might have a legitimate claim as a prophet, but he did not.

Originally posted by sparksgordon

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
reply to post by rjmelter

 

whereas i think i understand what you are saying with regards to people, it is not that we are bad... this is what christianity teaches you...



[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

Im sorry....what??.......that was rather judgmental. for someone who doesnt believe's in not pointing the fingure...

hmmm.... sparks do you not recall the fact that christians teach you we are all born in sin, and many of them say that if a child dies they are going straight to hell because they were born upon sins...
they say the only way you can escape from this "born into sin" which is a result of our mother eve, peace be upon her (according to them, islaam teaches nothin like this), is by accepting christ as ones salvation...

need i go on?
THIS is what i meant by saying "this is what christianity teaches" because WE believe that a person is born in a PURE state NOT sinful...

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

you see, many of you keep preaching "spiritualism" to me and you fail to understand that my father is a hardcore spiritualist and my mother is a little softer...

i know where all this "religions all have the same essence" and "reaching higher plains" etc comes from, so i don't need to learn it...

the things i dispised in psychology were theories such as freud's disgusting theories about a girl wanting her father to be the father of her child etc, and my class and teacher trying to teach me what my religion teaches, amongst other things... THIS is why i quit.

justice is not oppressing people, is giving charity to the needy, looking after the orphans and widows etc...
i'm sorry but once again people i using propaganda to fuel what they believe we as muslims think justice is...

moderate muslims are VERY different... these people are selling their religion to please other people... they do not cover properly, they gender mix, they constantly contend the rulings in islaam etc...
at the other pole you have those who, just like so-called moderates, interpret islaamic rulings of their own accord, and thus this leads to wrong actions and judgements, and based upon what many of you have been doing on this thread i.e taking qur'aan out of context to justify things WITHOUT referring to an explanation of the verse as told by the prophet.

many of he people on here ARE ignorant, do NOT want to listen and seem to love to only hear what they want to, thus demoising people by taking their quotes out of context and acting like they are a terrorist!

fyi i LOVE my covering, i did not do it for my husband or anyone else, but i did it to please my Lord, Whom i love above all!
i don't care if you agree with a woman covering or not, most people like to see women walking around showing themselves off, but i know what is my obligation and what i have been commanded to do.
we, as muslims, believe that if you walk down the street and people commit fornication or adultery of the heart/mind/eyes etc because of how YOU are dressed, you will share in this sin. this is why muslim women who know their obligation take all precautions to NOT allow this to happen...

i don't expect many of you to understand because many of you have no faith and thus would not understand why a woman, of her own choice, would want to strive to please her Creator so much, and by whatever He has deemed necessary for her to do so!


(now i am getting so very sick and tired of this thread that i'm not sure i can be bothered with it much longer... i've played my part, insha'Allaah i won't be posting so much on here! there is no point in talking to those who seem to be deaf, dumb and blind [not all of you on here as some are vvery polite and neutral...])

reply to post by eyescryforALLAAH07


Christianity does not teach we are born in sin... Its kinda a paradox to God being dissappointed with humanity for disobeying his rules repeatedly but... anyways. It is said that Christian Kids when they die of an early age go to heaven because they do not know and did not know of the nature of these things and could not have known from the early age and their brains not full maturing etc etc.

Dont put words in peoples mouths or religious dictations.

I still dont get where you say Man is born evil or bad in christians eyes. What you are overlooking is the balance of these two religions. they were created to oppose each other.

Human Kind is born and that is it. Born into this world. The surroundings he or she is in builds his reality, what he knows from learning is what becomes of his reality and understanding. His own world within himself. If he is surrounded by injustice he will choose justive or injustice. if he know peace he will choose peace or to stir up anger. He has made the choices within himself but are a direct relfection of the afflictions others have cast upon him.

Islam is too strict, they do not let those explore, they teach you to be afraid and not learn. For some kids they have to learn certain ways. Those kids get killed and tortured for making mistakes but if they were so pure as you speak, they wouldn't have been born with this problem. You would call them born with devils but they are not devils. Chemicals poisoned food or water which contaminated the womb. Or in development after they were born chemicals were altered in their body and adjustments were made that could not be corrected. You choose religion to kill these kids or prison them or other means to disrespect what you do not understand. This is the age or reason. Learning to truth. Religion did not know science before and now it is learning it. You may say science is the devil and if you do then so is God because he created everything in existance using science.

Actually, people here are pointing out the quotes in the Koran that they believe the most radical of Muslims use to justify their actions. Most of us non-Muslims do not see a great deal of wisdom in the Koran that has not been covered better by earlier prophets/philosophers.

A great many people don't agree with Freud's interpretation of childhood beliefs, that is not why people listen to what others have to say. They listen to what others have to say in order to get their perspective.

You have the choice to cover yourself from head to toe, just as other women have the right to flaunt their beauty. Personally, I see nothing wrong with sexual desire. This whole sex is evil concept is just another way of controlling people, by making them feel guilty for the feelings that come naturally. What I see is people who can not control their own desires who must therefore turn away from such desires, trying to control all others. If they can't enjoy these things, then no one should be able to enjoy these things.

Oh, but it is ok for fifty year old men to take child brides in arranged marriages. Talk about a twisted sense of sexuality.

Christianity does not teach we are born in sin... Its kinda a paradox to God being dissappointed with humanity for disobeying his rules repeatedly but... anyways

hmm, by any chance are you raised protestant?
i was supposingly (although my family are hardly what you would call religious) and i was not really told much about the "being born in sin" stuff... it might well be a catholic teaching who knows...
just as the catholics say that if you even attempt to try to explain the trinity you become an apostate, and yet the protostants constantly TRY to explain it (you know, the egg comparison or the tree... i seek refuge in Allaah from such things!)

Originally posted by poet1b
Personally, I see nothing wrong with sexual desire. This whole sex is evil concept is just another way of controlling people, by making them feel guilty for the feelings that come naturally.

hmmm i never said sex is evil...
fornication and adultery is evil!
hence why the religious scriptures have listed punishment for both acts!

and don't get me started on things you cannot understand... did you know that about 50 years ago the age of consent for marriage in the uk was 12?
did you know that it was... i think 9, 100years ago...

look into it, just because it isn't accepted in society today to marry off pubescent adults at a young age, it doesn't mean it was always the case! even 100 years ago it was different... why don't you research the history of the age of consent and find out for yourself...

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

reply to post by poet1b


I agree and disagree on the flaunting...

Women do have the right to flaunt their body... however the attitudes behind them should be warranted. The men that desire women only for sex are the ones who corrupt this... right i should say. People acting normally dont fall to these corruptions.

I find it interesting though that Indians of tribes where the women walk around naked except for a cloth around their butts and frontal pubic area... these people have a great understanding about human nature and dont have problems with rape etc... why is that? I should say it is because they are comfortable with their sexuality they know whats out there, they know whats within themselves and they know their place... they dont have strict rules. They do have their own spiritual teachings but they are spiritual and not religious... Man kind has to get away from religion and practice their spirituality. There is a large difference.

The concept is this. We are all born of the same creator. Through choices made our bodies are made by our parents who lived the lives that they did and in a point they created a body in which our souls arrived into during whatever phase of growth. We grow by learning, the more we learn the more we are responsible for, also the more we learn the closer we come to understanding what everything is... the beautiful creation that we are in. The creator would not create a creation and just punish him over and over again after he created him with certain wants and desires... He must learn to understand his desires however in a way that is pleasing to God and fellow humans. That way is in love, respectm honor, and many other traits.

I wonder sometimes if it wouldn't be better to walk the world naked. Everyone would see what truely is human, a naked and vulnerable body, vulnerable to the nature we are in, the hard work we must do... and our bodys are a representation of our spirit and mind. So while Muslim women choose to cover themselves up I find that odd. They are hiding their true creation, i could see why though, hiding it from men who lust for the creation process and that alone. They just want to feel good. Nothing is wrong with wanting sex. It is in the process you do it. Sex in love is eternal. Sex in anger is destructive and it will wreak havoc upon your life. People need to learn more full control.

I dont personally care what religion someone chooses to partake it. I am just sad to see that this world pushes women on the bottom of the food chain when it should be men because it is men (i am a man) who go after things of passion and desire instead of neccessity and need ( you acn still have an enjoyable time while doing things of need) Women are much more complex and loving beings.

I congradulate you for finding peace (Eye Cry)... I just hope that you dont fall to the victim of Religious control. God is love and only love, God does not teach nor preach fear. We humans if we know only good do not do wrong, so if wrong is occuring it is because of another impace... another Balance... perhaps this balance is Satan. Like Yin and Yang creating an eternal balance. This is your own personal journey and I find it wise if you do not post much more because nobody else here will choose to understand you we are very primitive beings... all of us. I am just as much as at fault as you are and others. None is perfect.

edit to add:

actually i do not find it wise or not wise to keep posting. I find it wise to not get angered over other peoples comments such as mine... and if you do feel you have become angered you should stop posting. Anger only creates more. Love on creates more. The impact on others that we have is by our choice and ours alone. I do like learning of your own oppinions, but dont get carried away in trying to prove yourself or your belief.

also no I was not raised protestant. I was raised Baptist. I agree with people not needing to desribe the trinity, you cannot desribe what only God knows. I dont beleive Jesus was saying he was the Son of God though, i think he was saying in absoluteness he Is the Son of God because it is him and he is himself and sees his absolute creation as his. So I would also see myself as a Son of God, and you a Daughter of God. I think all Jesus was trying to say is that we have our own perception of life and we are all different people but we have to keep in mind that we come from the same place and the same creation... so why is it that we seperate ourselves?

[edit on 14-9-2008 by rjmelter]

[edit on 14-9-2008 by rjmelter]

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
4 - again wrong, the MAJORITY of so-called muslim countries DO NOT WANT the khalifate, in fact, they would rather be secular, irreligious establishments...
what the ummah (muslim community) want is a khilaafah which groups all muslims together so that they can live under the laws of their Lord and practice their religion freely, without hatred or prejudice and so they can exercise the morals of NOT walking down the street and hearing verbal abuse to old people, or to the youth slandering their mother, etc...
places are usually only warred on and conquered during this time if they are oppressing their people (like in burma, kashmeer etc) and this is to reinstate someone who will rule with justice, or if war is brought to the muslim lands...

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

Thank you for answering....

1) If, as you say, the "honor punishments" come from other sources, outside the Koran, are you implying that islan is impure, and has been tarnished by other religions(like the Hinduism, that you site)?

2) If the ummah (muslim community), as you say, just want to live together, where they cannot be offended, where they can live under the same law, sharia law I presume, then what are you doing coming to Western Europe, Scandinavia and North America? Are you not, using your own rationale, inviting war on your community?

Again, thanks for the reply...

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by NorthWolfe CND

 

I'm an atheist. Religion, to me, is the refuge of the vulnerable.

1) He's a prophet. He is held in great regard by the Islamic faith.
2) No, the 'objective' of Islam is to lead a good life, as it is in Christianity and Judaism. What you see ascribed to Islam is not - that is just an easy way to ignore the real causes of these problems
3) I don't know what you're expecting to prove with this one - unless Islam is evenly distributed throughout each and every demographic in the UK (health, wealth, employment, etc.), looking for correlations is illogical, as correlation is not the same as causation
4) To quote Father Jack Hackett, that would be an ecumenical matter. The different approaches to establishing the Caliphate caused the split in Islam, and is still hotly debated to this day.

What you seem to have done, and indeed what many in the world have done, is conflate the struggles undertaken by Muslims with the Islamic faith. As in the reason why Iran is so angry is because it is an Islamic nation - which is flat-out wrong. To ignore the meddling of the west in their country's history is to ensure we never fix the problem. Same goes for the Palestinians. Same for the Chechnyans. There is one exacerbating factor, which seems to be more present in Islam than Christianity, is the brotherhood within the faith. It is not uncommon for many Muslims to consider themselves Muslim first, then . Some of you more patriotic folks will baulk at that notion (rightly or wrongly), but again - to ignore it is to ensure we don't fix a god-damned thing. That means that when an Islamic country is attacked, it is easily perceived as an attack on Islam. Seperating the two can be incredibly difficult. The same goes for Israel and Judaism - many people can't seperate the two, including many Jewish folks and Christian folks.

What Islam is currently experiencing is a horrific mix of circumstances. You have a religion that has stayed relatively localised (unlike Christianity), in the most important area for the worlds' economies, and a religion that preaches that brotherhood and "something worth fighting for is worth dying for" (notions exactly the same in Christianity, but which have been watered down by our society's continual distancing from religion, whether we realise it or not). The geographical implications of the location of Islamic countries and people has led to successive external powers (Britain, France, and more recently the US, among others) messing with the countries. Either by establishing military bases, or by meddling with internal politics, such as re-instating the Shah of Iran, or by arbitrarily decreeing Israel now exists again. Squeezing people brings out the worst in them, and if you have a banner that easily rallies people to your cause, rest assured it will be used.

It's late, and I apologise if that rant was off-topic or anything.

Also an atheist here...

Isn't the objective of every religion to leave enough room for interpretation, thus, from time to time, allowing it's leaders to radically alter the religion in itself?
Example: Christianity, at one time was a religion of war, according to various pope's interpretations, now it says it is a religion of peace, according to other pope's interpretations of the same material source, or is it just a sign of the times?

To lead a good life, you say. What is a "good life"? on who's criteria must they rely, to establish what a "good life is"? Isn't this just another example of "open to interpretation", by the powers taht be?

"I don't know what you're expecting to prove..."
I'm not expecting to prove anything. That is probably why I ask questions, didn't the (?), give me away?
Since I have heard muslim leaders defend "honor punishments", while others are against it, I wanted to read the opinions of muslim's, on this boar. As you might have already guessed, I don't give a s*it about what they do in their own community, to each other...

"What you seem to have done, and indeed what many in the world have done, is conflate..."

I didn't do anything, I asked questions...like you said, "that would be an ecumenical matter", since the community, and it's leaders, is, apparently, so divided, on almost every day to day issue, let alone long time strategies, I am just trying to establish what the leading view is...

Or, are their apparent divisions just a mask???

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Tell that to the Muslim man who tried to cut my throat for talking to his wife directly instead of talking to him.

I was a Security Officer In a Melbourne Complex and an Arab Man and his family (obviousely lost), asked me for directions.

While I was trying to give them directions, one of the mans little boys started playing up, so he bent down to quiet the boy. While this went on, I turned to his Wife (who was in full Islamic dress & had her face hidden, etc), and started to continue giving my directions to her.

Next thing I know, I'm on the floor fighting for my life as this sick freak tried to cut my throat, while all the while yelling a whole bunch of crap in arabic.

This, in my own country, attacked by a visitor to my country..!!!

You wanna know what happened to this guy?

NOTHING!!!

I was the one "apparently in the wrong"...!!!

These [SNIP] want everyone to follow their laws.. even when they visit our country, they expect US to follow their traditions & laws for the duration of their stay...lol

Muslims are the most [SNIP] on the face of this planet, followed closely by the Christians, jews, hindu, Scientologists, mormons, and every other sick demented religion on the friggin planet..!!



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[edit on 16-9-2008 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
and by the way... WHY do people seem to be talking about muslims as if they are another race???
HELLO i am WHITE, my husband is WHITE, many of my close friends are also WHITE muslims...
off the top of my head i can probably think of about 30-40 WHITE muslims that i know!

Yes, and they've all abandoned their culture and heritage. And for what, an alien religion that teaches subservience? What a way to honour one's forefathers who built Great Britain - by spitting upon its values and traditions. Being born into Islam is one thing, but selling your own heritage to join it is another. For the record, I see Christianity as an alien religion too. We should never have accepted it into Europe. The difference between then and now is that at least back then we fought (and lost) to keep our spirituality. Europe now is simply laying down for the steamroller that is Islam.

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
i will NOT put my children, nor myself, in a situation where i have no citizenship, lack of rights, and can be kicked out at any time if they want to...

Yet you'll gladly steal your children's heritage and ancestral culture from them? You're fortunate (as far as you're concerned) to live in a time where you're able to pick and choose the religion, culture, and social benefits for a tailor-made existence. Once upon a time, culture, religion and nation went hand in hand. That was true harmony and that was the environment that nurtured great nations and great people.

PS As always, I must stress that I oppose racism. I support the preservation and independence of all races and cultures.

No offence and i don't usually buy into this whole lotta stuff, but if the muslim extremists did try and commit a take over....

They've picked the wrong place to pick a fight.

We'll have the English (think angry geordies, scousers, brummies, cockneys and the like), the northern Irish, the Welsh and of course the Scots all uniting against a common enemy.

For years we've all been at each others throats, but we'll stand together and unite if this scourge of extremism stands to gain any further influence on our society that is Britain.

I'm speaking from a tolerant, lefty position here too... so god knows what will happen when the extreme right decides enough is enough.

For now, i'm willing to tolerate any kind of culture, until it starts to erode everything my grandfather fought for in the war.

Simple as that.

Oh, and before i get accused of race hate or anti-religious hoo ha, i speak to any muslim here and ask that you had better speak louder in your own community and eradicate this scourge, otherwise you will find normally tolerant people finally cracking and it'll be the innocent muslims who will suffer.

Seriously.

reply to post by mr-lizard


There are innocent Muslims?

Their own Qur'an actually promots the ultimate extermination or forced conversion of all non-believers.

All muslims live by the Qur'an, and thus can never say they are moderate or light muslims.

If you believe in the Qur'an, you believe in its words & if some of those words spoken by Mohamed say to kill all non-believers, you can bet that these socalled moderates secretly believe this to be true, though publicly they will state otherwise.

Having seen numerous threads on this subject here on ATS and have made my opinion known on several occassions but I would just like to say it is good that we have some Muslim members contributing to this thread.

Not all Muslims are evil and support the imposition of Sharia, unfortunately they do very little to purge their own communities of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.
The majority of Muslims turn a blind eye to their activities and refuse to either condemn or inform on them.
Thus, they are equally as guilty.

Until the majority of respectable Muslims accept some responsibility themselves and take action themselves against these people then there will always be animosity between Muslims and Non-Muslims.

I will not stand idly by and watch my country degenerate into a third world country do to a combination of PC'ness of Muslim apologists and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

I assure everyone out there, there are parts of the UK that are on the verge real insurgence unless the government or Muslims themselves address these real concerns.

Edit to add:

Oh, and what a suprise, this becoming law through the back door with so little publicity!
Check the last post here;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 15/9/08 by Freeborn]

From the UK 2001 census:

The population of the UK as of 2001 was 58.8 million

There are 37.3 million people in England and Wales who state their religion as Christian (59%)

In England, 3.1 per cent (1.7 million) of the population state their religion as Muslim (0.7 per cent in Wales), making this the most common religion after Christianity.

For other religions, 1.1 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Hindu, 0.7 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Sikh, 0.5 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Jewish and 0.3 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Buddhist.

In England and Wales 7.7 million people state they have no religion (14.6 per cent in England and 18.5 per cent in Wales).

At the time the Census was carried out, there was an internet campaign that encouraged people to answer the religion question "Jedi Knight". The number of people who stated Jedi was 390,000 (0.7 per cent of the population).

The religion question was voluntary, and 4,011,000 people chose not answer it (7.7 per cent).



so where will this massive army come from ?

reply to post by Harlequin


1.7% of the population.
I know it is hard to evaluate, but how much of an influence?
Much more than 1.7% I would say.

Just my opinion though and very hard to use statistics to support an opinion like this.