Muslim extremists conspiring to overthrow Great Britain

Originally posted by justme2


I'm not an "Apologist" either. Which is something else I find ignorant. It's that whole "You're either with us, or against us" "We're always right, you're wrong" attitude. And misquoting me is definitely NOT denying ignorance.


Just because you do not agree with them, don't paint them all as evil... And yes, history shows us that the Muslim religion is relatively peaceful. Have some Muslims done some REALLY horrible things, yes. But so have Christians and those belonging to every other religion known to man.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

And your right about the idea of looking at the world too BLACK AND WHITE.(the problem terrorists have haha)
Nothing is black and white in this world, everything is grey, neutral etc

It's not so easy to say, were the good guys they're the bad guys, they are out enemy and your not etc.

We just need to remember about individuality too.

I would also like to add that it would be almost impossible to Judge all muslims and put them in the same group, because if you research there are "many" different groups of people who each follow a different view of Islam, so they actually follow different religions! lol.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]

those who do not fight you because of religion,

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
i can't even be bothered to read all these hate-filled replies...

i'm not even sure hot wings would care about reading a tafseer of the verse (that means explanation) that he keeps quoting, but here some are for the benefit of other readers who actually want to know what is really meant by the verse:

And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you, that is, from Mecca, and this was done after the Conquest of Mecca; sedition, their idolatry, is more grievous, more serious, than slaying, them in the Sacred Enclosure or while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability, the thing that you greatly feared. But fight them not by the Sacred Mosque, that is, in the Sacred Enclosure, until they should fight you there; then if they fight you, there, slay them, there (a variant reading drops the alif in the three verbs [sc. wa-lā taqtilūhum, hattā yaqtulūkum, fa-in qatalūkum, so that the sense is ‘slaying’ in all three, and not just ‘fighting’]) — such, killing and expulsion, is the requital of disbelievers.

(2:191 - tafseer al jalalayn - over 500 years old)



Abu Ja`far Ar-Razi said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah commented on what Allah said:


(And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you,)

Abu Al-`Aliyah said, "This was the first Ayah about fighting that was revealed in Al-Madinah. Ever since it was revealed, Allah's Messenger used to fight only those who fought him and avoid non-combatants. Later, Surat Bara'ah (chapter 9 in the Qur'an) was revealed.'' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said similarly, then he said that this was later abrogated by the Ayah:

(then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5).

However, this statement is not plausible, because Allah's statement:

(...those who fight you) applies only to fighting the enemies who are engaged in fighting Islam and its people. So the Ayah means, `Fight those who fight you', just as Allah said (in another Ayah):


(...and fight against the Mushrikin collectively as they fight against you collectively.) (9:36)

This is why Allah said later in the Ayah:

(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.) meaning, `Your energy should be spent on fighting them, just as their energy is spent on fighting you, and on expelling them from the areas from which they have expelled you, as a law of equality in punishment.'

(tafseer ibn-katheer - over 700 years old)

SEE HOW IT MENTIONS THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU -
i.e like is happening in iraq or palestine for example...

it DOES NOT MEAN go and bomb the london tubes etc, your ignorance to this fact shows that you are just like the muslims who take the verses out of context to justify killing the public solely to make a point...

and, by the way, i NEVER said that i am a "moderate" muslim, because i find that these extremists are just as bad as the ones who take things out of context (in islaam, there are 2 types of extremist - extremely passive or extremely rebellious)

i thank justme2 fo having an open mind unlike most on this thread, as he uses comman sense and DOES NOT take verses out of context to prove his points etc...

hot_wings, fyi you DO NOT KNOW my religion better than i, as i study it unlike most ignorant muslims, and you are just like the fools who think they always know better than everyone else, even the qualified scholars!

i do not have time for people like you, i have a child to look after, duties to my husband as a wife, and moreover to my Lord as His slave...
i won't sit here for hours on end trying to argue with you, it is simply not worth it. it is the blessed month of ramadhaan for us & i will not waste my time when i have far better things to do!

one last thing...
i went to a primarily WHITE school both secondary and primary...
at primary school there we TWO mixed race kids in my year and about 5 asians in a year of over 200 people!
at secondary school there were not much more than that!
so the assumption was WRONG : )

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

So the part that seems odd to me is the quote;

those who do not fight you because of religion,

Seems that many Muslims are very sensitive about their religion, and always seem to find a reason to be fighting about religion.

Then you might want to square with the fact that although you claim that Allah is against aggressors, the entire history of Islam has been one of aggression.

Being that Muslims conquered Israel about a thousand years ago, who is trying to throw whom out of whose home?

What bothers me most is that I don't hear anything from the pro-Muslim crowd about what to do about radical Muslims. Maybe instead of just bleating abuot being singled out, you might be offerring suggestions as to how to root radical Muslims out of your community.

Anyone got any ideas how to stop radical Muslim terrorists?

Originally posted by eyescryforALLAAH07
reply to post by Ownification

 

well i guess we disagree, because the creed of a muslim is to follow qur'aan AND ahadeeth, and whosoever denies the ahadeeth is a disbeliever

ALLAAH says:

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "obey Allah and the messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #32)

so, as we believe the qur'aan to be the speech of ALLAAH, then HOW can we obey the messenger?
the only way to do this is to follow the sunnah which is obeying HIM...

we, as muslims, believe that the ahadeeth are ALSO wahee (revalation from Allaah) and thus this is another reason why they MUST be followed...
ahadeeth do not only explain the verses of the scripture, but also they relay the ettiquettes of everyday life of the prophet and his followers, and many other things, which the believers must follow to the best of their ability...


those of the ahl-us-sunnah (the people of the sunnah) follow 4 things:
1 - al-Qur'aan primarily
2 - as-sunnah
3 - qiyaas - analogical deduction done by scholars to produce rulings from the qur'aan and ahadeeth (and we follow the classical rulings which have been established for over 1300 years, which are used to make recent rulings if circumstances differ slightly and no ruling can be found from the classical scholars)
4 - ijma` - the consensus (i.e we do not deviate from the well established majority from history)

those upon the true path of ahl-us-sunnah follow a school of jurisprudence / law, which are 4 in number and are 1200-1300 years old...

if one deviates from the path and chooses to subject interpret to "fit the times" as you think one should, this causes nothing but disunity and discord, for everyone would have their own ruling, own implementation etc, and thus everyone would be disunited and in confusion....

i will forward you things to read if you really are interested as this is a bit of a lengthy topic... in short, we would be in extreme turmoil if everyone left the classical way ( and this is one reason why we have so many confused muslims, ignorant muslims, disunited muslims and deviants existing today...)

[edit on 14-9-2008 by eyescryforALLAAH07]