FAA or 84RADES data falsified, or both.

reply to post by ValkyrieWings
I really hate wasting my time on petty nonsense such as this, but I couldn't resist.

The delay due to a "Cherokee crossing downfield" at ADW? The helo I can buy, but a "Cherokee", at ADW? Really? Uhhh, ok. I guess they were doing sightseeing after two towers attacked in NYC. Or perhaps instruction. Does ADW now have a flight school on the field?

Yes, ValkyrieWings, a flippin' Cherokee. A Piper PA-28 with the tail number N9302N was at Andrews Air Force Base, shooting approaches, delaying GOFER06's departure.

Should we assume that this guy is also part of the impossibly vast conspiracy?

reply to post by Boone 870


Andrews' has an Aero Club now, but it does not appear one was there in 2001. That aircraft could have been from Ft Meade, Bolling, or Quantico.

There has been an Aero Club at every base where I have been assigned. They are part of Morale, Welfare, and Recreation facilities which are supported by Non-Appropriated funds, so no tax payer $$ are involved.

In fact, I've rented their aircraft to take my family on vacation to France and Spain when I lived in England. I've also flown their aircraft half way across the Country for personal events and even to Canada on one occasion. They are a good deal in that they can use both military and civilian facilities and the prices are good.

They also provide flying instruction for those who are not pilots. The instructors are military pilots who volunteer their time to teach.

Wow, look at them all, swarming like a hive of bee's which just been kicked. Quick question, if we "have nothing" and are "peons", why do you guys spend so much time on us?

Ok, back to business.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
AND, you don't expect that not everyone SAW the telex immediately, do you??? Couple of minutes more, as the significance sank in.....

Boone, would you like to answer this one for weedwacker? Please tell him when DCA was notified as obviously he missed it on past pages. Thanks.

hint: According to Boone, DCA was notified of the stop @ 09:29:56, less than a minute after being issued, which means TYSON would have known sooner. Are you familiar with the way NOTAM's are distributed?

@ Reheat (the symbol means "at", not "about", and yes "~" would have been better as it wouldn't have looked like something you changed your mind to save text, but forgot to backspace, you do have a habit of posting to the text limit and doing multiple edits), the NOTAM issued was unprecedented due to it being Nationwide. However Ground stops are issued regularly throughout the system. You claim to be a pilot, ever had a take off clearance canceled due to a ground stop? If not, you haven't flown much. If so, this is ATC following SOP. As far as "who to call", it was already described in the post above yours, TYSON to call ADW Tower and cancel the release if not off the ground. ADW would have then when up the chain of command to get military authorization for a departure during a ground stop if essential (SECDEF if needed, or even POTUS perhaps). ADW works within the FAA System. ADW just cannot do whatever it wants while TYSON scratches their head to figure out if ADW departures apply. Nor can you just make up stuff ("guess", as Boone has done) as to why GOFER06 busted the ground stop.

The rest of your post is once again mostly personal attacks, and your second redundant.

@ Boone (not "about" Boone )

Your first post is redundant. I do not dispute ADW notification at this time. I'm sure they were kept in the dark while GOFER06 busted the ground stop to be at a certain place, at a certain time, on a path described by witnesses and O'Brien himself, very dfifferent than the path you all are now trying to posit with pencil markings on govt controlled and provided data, along with conflicting audio tapes, also controlled by the govt.

Edit to add: Boone, second time asked.

By the way Boone, how did you determine times for DCA Ground Stop notification and TYSON Release? It is just based on audio time sequence from start? Or do you have an official govt document/transcript with time stamps? TIA.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

reply to post by ValkyrieWings

hint: According to Boone, DCA was notified of the stop @ 09:29:56, less than a minute after being issued, which means TYSON would have known sooner. Are you familiar with the way NOTAM's are distributed?

OK...this is just the relevant point from your diatribe. SO, now you're claiming that GOFER06 did not take off, because of the Ground Stop?

I thought the fantasy of GOFER06 on a Northbound straight out, then a turn to the Northwest was vital to the CIT/PffT fantasy ground tracks for their pretend airplane fly-over???

Is their story changing?

I just don't see why this is STILL anything worth discussing, especially these minutuae and chest thumping over who has the bigger ...errrmmmm... empennage. No data has been falsified. THAT is the question of this thread OP. Done.

edit because this is too funny to not show again...

...while GOFER06 busted the ground stop to be at a certain place, at a certain time,...

'busted' the stop??? Really? Then, what you're really saying is, GOFER06 took off without a clearance. Is that what you're saying?

Please, make it so.....please.

[edit on 2 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
No data has been falsified.

Of course, no data has been falsified. There is zero evidence that it was in the first place. He's now just like a monkey at the zoo throwing his feces against the wall to see what sticks. He's finished and failed at whatever he was trying to prove. It's all just regurgitated garbage at this point along with the monkey doo.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
OK...this is just the relevant point from your diatribe. SO, now you're claiming that GOFER06 did not take off, because of the Ground Stop?

No. Please re-read from page 10. Thanks.

Then, what you're really saying is, GOFER06 took off without a clearance. Is that what you're saying?

No, please re-read from page 10. Thanks.

Added page links

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by weedwhacker
No data has been falsified.

Of course, no data has been falsified. There is zero evidence that it was in the first place. He's now just like a monkey at the zoo throwing his feces against the wall to see what sticks. He's finished and failed at whatever he was trying to prove. It's all just regurgitated garbage at this point along with the monkey doo.

I am still trying to figure out what the ground stop has to do with the flight path and departure of GOFER06 from ADW. Regardless of what time the ground stop was, GOFER06 did take off and did depart on a heading of 270 within 3 DME. Which by the way, that little 'fix' graphic VV posted earlier had a true 270 drawn in by P4T. Silly pilots at P4T don't even know that headings are given in magnetic.

Reheat, 02N went back to Potomac Field.



VW, yes, all of my times are based off of the recordings and are adjusted for the voice certification.

Something else to remember, the 9:29:56 call to the tower came from the Command Center. The Command Center issued two separate ground stops. One was for DCA, BWI, and IAD (ADVISORY 030). Then the second ground stop was nationwide (ADVISORY 031).

We don't know if the call from the CC was to inform the tower of the metro airports NOTAM or the nationwide NOTAM.

NOTAMs, page 70.

VW, the link goes to THE 9/11 WORKING GROUP OF BLOOMINGTON. You don't have to refer to them as Spencer's NOTAM's anymore.

reply to post by 911files


Files, CIT's Fantasy Flight Path went into a holding pattern.

The guy who dreamed up this whole 'South of the Mall' fairytale has now admitted that GOFER 06 departed out of Andrews on a 270° heading. Now the question is, when did he turn left.

Originally posted by 911files
Which by the way, that little 'fix' graphic VV posted earlier had a true 270 drawn in by P4T. Silly pilots at P4T don't even know that headings are given in magnetic.

The 270 path in the graphic is a screenshot of points you plotted in your google earth .kmz file for the C-130.

The time stamps were removed.

I'm sure current members of P4T who are also Captains at JetBlue, United, and American, et al, know the difference between mag and true.

How much flight time you have 911Files?



[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Originally posted by Boone 870
VW, yes, all of my times are based off of the recordings and are adjusted for the voice certification.

So, your times are based off time sequence of recordings, which are essentially mp3 files processed by "911Files" from wav, of whom has been proven to have processed files different from the originals?

1. In general, the final AA77 data in the raw file differs materially from the processed file.

2. The final raw file return is at about 13:38:12 or about 26 seconds after the last one recorded in the processed file.

3. The last sweep in the processed file is 492 timed at 13:37:46 but the raw file has returns for six more sweeps up to number 498 at about 13:38:12.

4. The time stamps for the returns in the raw file up to number 492 are spaced in between the returns in the processed file with the raw file return for 492 timed at 13:37:43, 492 in the processed file at 13:37:46, and 493 in the raw file at 13:37:48.

5. The bulk of the data for sweeps 493 to 498 in the raw file suggest an object in continuing motion. The speed stays the same at 376 and the heading changes from 70 to 72. Just about all of the positional data changes progressively and apparently to the northeast; the only exceptions being Xv and Yv which stay the same.....

6. It seems possible that the processing of data in both files was prematurely terminated.

Source

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we can now take the time sequence of the audio with a grain of salt as well.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

reply to post by ValkyrieWings

I'm sure current members of P4T who are also Captains at JetBlue, United, and American, et al, know the difference between mag and true.

Could you please ask the Captains at P4T to explain the difference between magnetic and true to the gang at CIT? It would be greatly appreciated.

We must take everything with a grain of salt to believe the conspiracy theories.

FAA radar data: fake/altered.

RADES radar data: fake/altered.

Air traffic control recordings: fake/altered.

Flight progress strips: fake/altered.

Air traffic controller's statements: fake/altered.

Video and photos of the C-130: fake/altered.

I'm starting to see a pattern...

reply to post by ValkyrieWings


JetBlue, United and American 'Captains', et al.

JetBlue is non-union (so far), but United is ALPA. Let's see....

The strength and unity of 52,250 represented pilots give the individual ALPA member the support needed to take necessary action for safety.

Snippet from ALPA website

American's pilots are represented by the Allied Pilots Association....

APA was founded in 1963 by a group of American Airlines pilots who broke away from the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA). With more than 12,000 members, APA is the largest independent pilots’ union in the world.

About the APA

SO, we have the two Unions' numbers totalling "more than" 64,250 members. Includes active, furloughed and retired.

P4T has, how many "believers" again???

Oh, almost forgot, up above, doesn't include IFALPA, the International side. And who knows how many other pilots' groups there are, worldwide?
[edit: I forgot about BALPA, unless they've merged into IFALPA> Guess I could look it up, what what!]

I'm not sure ALL of the P4T members are in agreement, either, on certain aspects, like the 'no-planes' concept....are they?

Just because they are Captains at an airline doesn't mean they can't make mistakes...or support very crazy ideas.

( Believe me, I know...I've met a few in my time )

[edit on 2 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by ValkyrieWings

Originally posted by 911files
Which by the way, that little 'fix' graphic VV posted earlier had a true 270 drawn in by P4T. Silly pilots at P4T don't even know that headings are given in magnetic.

The 270 path in the graphic is a screenshot of points you plotted in your google earth .kmz file for the C-130.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

VV, quite demonstrating what we already know. I was talking about the P4T '270 turn', NOT the radar path which is 270 magnetic. I did not draw your fancy littly fairyland path.

Originally posted by ValkyrieWings
So, your times are based off time sequence of recordings, which are essentially mp3 files processed by "911Files" from wav, of whom has been proven to have processed files different from the originals?
[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Now VV, you know that large files cannot be handled on the web easily and mp3 with left-channel is the only way they can be offered to the public in general. However, there is not a D**N thing stopping you from doing a FOIA request and getting the original file for yourself (like Boone870 did).

No, all you and your buddies at P4T/CIT can do is complain because the evidence destroys your fantasy. Now since you are accusing me of altering the content, please get the original and back up your claims with something besides BS.

Originally posted by 911files
Which by the way, that little 'fix' graphic VV posted earlier had a true 270 drawn in by P4T.

I was talking about the P4T '270 turn'

Please provide the "fix graphic" which has a "270 turn drawn by P4T" that I posted "earlier". A link to the single post will do fine.

Thanks.

As for "backing up my claims" about your processed files differing from the originals, I posted the source above (unlike you). It's well documented. Click it.

@ weedwacker

ALPA membership consists of ~9% of total pilots certificated, does that mean 91% disagree with them? ALPA has been in existence for 70+ years, P4T has been around for 3.

Not to mention not every pilot wants to put their name up on the web only to be subject to Reheat Nazi Style Witch Hunts harassing their employers due to the fact they question 9/11.

Your comparisons are a logical fallacy and have been proven as such time and time again on this very forum.

Let us know when you poll the entire pilot population after they review P4T.

If you want to make a fair comparison, those who are willing to put their names, faces and professional reputations to their claims are numerous regarding P4T and the list is growing. Those who attempt to "debunk" P4T daily who also put their faces, names and professional reputations behind their claimed experience and credentials... are zero.


[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Originally posted by ValkyrieWings

Originally posted by 911files
Which by the way, that little 'fix' graphic VV posted earlier had a true 270 drawn in by P4T.

I was talking about the P4T '270 turn'

Please provide the "fix graphic" which has a "270 turn drawn by P4T" that I posted "earlier". A link to the single post will do fine.

Thanks.

As for "backing up my claims" about your processed files differing from the originals, I posted the source above (unlike you). It's well documented. Click it.
[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Don't act ignorant VV, you posted the darn thing and I'm not going to waste my time tracking back to it for you. You have proven nothing except someone elses ramblings. Get the original files and PROVE IT!

Originally posted by 911files
Don't act ignorant VV, you posted the darn thing and I'm not going to waste my time tracking back to it for you.

So you make a claim and fail to provide source.

This is the only "fix graphic" I posted.



The only "270 turn" in that "'Fix Graphic", was plotted by you.

All other images I posted are either ATC Strips or Test Results for Rob Balsamo ATP when Reheat kept claiming Balsamo doesn't have the knowledge for his ATP. Edit: And the NOTAM which calls for ALL aircraft grounded in which Reheat et al "guesses" it doesn't apply to Military aircraft.

You have proven nothing except someone elses ramblings. Get the original files and PROVE IT!

The source is there 911Files. Many people read it. It's been proven. The only one who is rambling is you without providing source for any of your claims.

We're still waiting for you to prove you were banned at P4T Forum, were still waiting for you to provide source for the "fix graphic" you claim P4T drew in error that I posted "earlier", and we're still waiting for you to post the FOIA Cover letter you promised by this "weekend". You have less than an hour left 911Files. Still "processing" the letter?

911Files, can you provide source for anything you claim?

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

Originally posted by ValkyrieWings

Originally posted by 911files
Don't act ignorant VV, you posted the darn thing and I'm not going to waste my time tracking back to it for you.

So you make a claim and fail to provide source.

This is the only "fix graphic" I posted.

The only "270 turn" in that "'Fix Graphic", was plotted by you.

All other images I posted are either ATC Strips or Test Results for Rob Balsamo ATP when Reheat kept claiming Balsamo doesn't have the knowledge for his ATP. Edit: And the NOTAM which calls for ALL aircraft grounded in which Reheat et al "guesses" it doesn't apply to Military aircraft.

You have proven nothing except someone elses ramblings. Get the original files and PROVE IT!

The source is there 911Files. Many people read it. It's been proven. The only one who is rambling is you without providing source for any of your claims.

We're still waiting for you to prove you were banned at P4T Forum, were still waiting for you to provide source for the "fix graphic" you claim P4T drew in error that I posted "earlier", and we're still waiting for you to post the FOIA Cover letter you promised by this "weekend". You have less than an hour left 911Files. Still "processing" the letter?

911Files, can you provide source for anything you claim?

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]

VV, you are wasting my time. You just posted the lower half of the pic and pretend the upper half with P4T/CIT BS does not exist. Second, Capt'n Bob gets upset when I post his emails on forums. Third, I'm not your lap-dog, I'll scan the letter when I feel like it. Since it is so important to you I may just let you go to Arlington County Library next month and scan it yourself.

Originally posted by 911files
You just posted the lower half of the pic and pretend the upper half with P4T/CIT BS does not exist.

Yet another claim by 911Files he fails to source.

911Files, the picture is exactly the same as I posted it since page 10. Right click on it and check the properties for the file, there is no "upper half missing". That is the whole graphic. Any "upper half" of that graphic would have a left turn north of P56 somewhere in Maryland! No one is claiming that and no one ever has.

Boone, want to help out 911Files here? He may be having a "senior" moment.

Bottom line 911Files, there is no "Fix Graphic Drawn by P4T" which shows "270 true" when it should be "Magnetic". You're making stuff up due to your extreme bias and severe obsession with attempting to discredit P4T. Unfortunately, you're only discrediting yourself.

Second, Capt'n Bob gets upset when I post his emails on forums.

Another claim 911Files fails to source and moving goal posts yet again. You don't have to post an email, just provide your registered name at P4T and ATS members here can look it up at P4T. "911Files" does not exist at P4T forum. You're losing credibility fast. Are you going to prove you are banned at P4T as your reason for not posting there and crying for Capt Bobby's attention here on this thread? Or not?

Considering it has been proven ad nauseam you have a habit of making claims which do not exist, and then make further claims failing to provide source once again when called on your previous claims, I'm thinking not.

Third, I'm not your lap-dog, I'll scan the letter when I feel like it.

Translation - I make promises I cannot keep" - 911Files.

911Files, Don't tell the board you will produce it by "this weekend" if you intend to make excuses for it later.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Considering you guys posted the audio on youtube just over a week ago, and now you're making excuses to provide source, I don't think you have the cover letter. Was the entire audio fabricated? As well as the penciled in ATC Strips?

"Oh what a tangled web we weave...".

Now be sure to "process" that letter!


[edit on 3-8-2009 by ValkyrieWings]