Pakistan threatens to retaliate against US

Man, it is just simple politics and rhetoric. They have to say something. I believe the meeting between an American General and the Defense Minister allowed this border crossing with the caveat that there is plausible denial. They met just one week or maybe a few days before these stories broke. But yes. Pakistan has a sovereign right to whine but alas, I believe they are in cahoots sort of speak with the US.

I don't doubt for one second that you have Pakistan and the US holding hands behind closed doors

But what happens out the fron't is the issue at hand

If you have some one in your yard trying to break into your house, You are going to kick his ass,if he kills your woman your going to do some thing about it. Is that not the American way?

So Pakistan should do what they have to do to protect their own people


And for the people who said Pakistan will not do any thing to the US because you gave them money

Ever heard about the dog who bites the hand that feeds it?

Pakistan. A nuclear-armed Nation under Islam. An Islamic Country spouting off threats or hateful rhetoric? Imagine that.

I say the US should cut the bull and openly do raids into Pakistan and kill Osama Bin Laden. This is the ONLY thing I agree with Obama on. (Is it too late to get a Democrat's response on this?)

Tough Talk on Pakistan from Obama (not "Osama")

Of course, we know Obama is not serious on this. Surely with his weak position on Iraq and Iran he wouldn't be insane enough to go after a nuclear-armed Muslim nation would he?

As for the war on terror, we've already put every nation that harbors terrorists on notice just after 9-11. I agree with the accusations of hypocrisy on the part of the Bush Administration on this. We SHOULD be organizing raids into Pakistan and we should be especially bombing Iran's nuclear assets before we have yet another Islamic Nation armed with nukes. (I give credit to Pakistan though, they have behaved fairly responsibly with their nuclear safety protocols). But most importantly, parties within both these nations have sponsored terrorism against U.S. peoples. In this matter, we should call out Saudi Arabia too.

I say the US should just go in openly with our forces already in Afghanistan and tell Pakistan to shut up. They'd know what we were going in there for and their threats mean nothing. The ONLY reason they are spouting off about this is because they know the US is divided and lacks the "resolve" to follow through on G.W.'s promise after 9-11......because of this division.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by bodrul

 

That is precisely what i'm talking about.
Why would they risk everything for the US?


Makes no sense.

Firstly I question what source of information you are basing your opinions on. You seem to think that you are supremely knowledgeable about this issue, so I assume you know something that I do not know about my own country of origin.

Second, it was the USA that prevented India from destroying Pakistan in the 1971 Indo-Pak war. Please go look it up... The USA sent a nuclear enabled warship into the Gulf of Persia to stop India from marching on Islamabad. Indian forces had taken battlefield supremacy and were 6 days from victory when the USA intervened.

You ask why India would attack Pakistan? Hmm lets see:

1. 60 years of cross border terrorism sponsored by Pakistan.
2. 6 wars and border skirmishes.
3. Continued Pakistani support for Chinese occupation of Aksai Chin.
4. Numerous terrorist activities including the 1993 and 2006 Mumbai bomb blasts.
5. ISI's covert activities in destabilising Afghanistan, including their bombing of the Indian embassy.

I know 100% that if the USA invaded Pakistan, India would be in there straight away to retake Kashmir.

That is my case. What is yours, aside from questioning my ability to "deny ignorance".

Hmmm Pakistan threatening the US.

I don't know which to be more afraid of, Pakistan, or the 8 year old kid that lives next door.

It's wishful thinking I know but it would be nice if all the countries currently 'itching' to fight would just go home and look at their own countries and deal with the issues there instead of trying to pick fights with with every other country .
sooner or later something will happen which will affect us all . another world war maybe, but secretly and foolishly I'm hoping that global extinction for mankind because we can't seem to let ourselves live a day without killing someone else. just get to the end and kill us all in one go. that way ALL issues are dealt with , there are no winners and no losers.
We cant just go home and learn to live with each other, and love everyone else no matter what their differences are.
sometimes I think we as a race don't deserve to survive and it seems that governments are going out of their way to see that we all suffer and that the end is what they the governments are truly after. not gold , not oil , not land , just the end of humanity or at least anyone who's different to them.
And I know people will post after me that I shouldn't say this kind of thing and that I'm daft , but you know what? I couldn't give a rats balls because there isnt a day goes by without doom and gloom being reported, it would be nice to have a year without a war for a change.and I'm getting bored of all of it all. but I'm not gong to give the second greatest gift I have up because I'm disappointed with mankind as a race. the gift being my life of course....

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by bodrul

 

Second, it was the USA that prevented India from destroying Pakistan in the 1971 Indo-Pak war. Please go look it up... The USA sent a nuclear enabled warship into the Gulf of Persia to stop India from marching on Islamabad. Indian forces had taken battlefield supremacy and were 6 days from victory when the USA intervened.

The United States supported Pakistan both politically and materially. Nixon, backed by Henry Kissinger, feared Soviet expansion into South and Southeast Asia. Pakistan was a close ally of the People's Republic of China, with whom Nixon had been negotiating a rapprochement and where he intended to visit in February 1972. Nixon feared that an Indian invasion of West Pakistan would mean total Soviet domination of the region, and that it would seriously undermine the global position of the United States and the regional position of America's new tacit ally, China. In order to demonstrate to China the bona fides of the United States as an ally, and in direct violation of the US Congress-imposed sanctions on Pakistan, Nixon sent military supplies to Pakistan, routing them through Jordan and Iran,[5] while also encouraging China to increase its arms supplies to Pakistan.

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Wiki

As you can see US had its own agendas and it didn't intervene for the safety of pakistan as an 'ally'.

And have you ever heard of the kargil war?Just 500 hardcore insurgents faced the might of 200,000 indian army and they still cound't regain control of those heights from insurgents.

India only manage to get those heights back due to US intervention.Otherwise pakistani forces and millitants would have been roaming freely on it now.

You ask why India would attack Pakistan? Hmm lets see:

1. 60 years of cross border terrorism sponsored by Pakistan.
2. 6 wars and border skirmishes.
3. Continued Pakistani support for Chinese occupation of Aksai Chin.
4. Numerous terrorist activities including the 1993 and 2006 Mumbai bomb blasts.
5. ISI's covert activities in destabilising Afghanistan, including their bombing of the Indian embassy.

Regarding kashmir,the indian hindu and sikh troops killed thousands of muslims and raped countless women,so what do you expect pakistan and muslim kashmiris to do? Sit there and get ethnicaly cleansed by indian forces?That's why Pakistan supported the mujahideen movement and different islamic organistations trained and fully armed them with inteligence fed in from ISI to keep the indian troops at bay.

I know 100% that if the USA invaded Pakistan, India would be in there straight away to retake Kashmir.

Yes definetly! But China is also not gona sit there and in last resort pakistan rather nuke the crap outa india along with US millitary bases beacause pakistan's state would be 10 times worser than afghanistan after india and US is done with it.So its better for pakistan to nuke and get nuked.

Its only cos of the nukes US and india don't dare fully attack Pakistan.Pakistan really owes BIG TIME to Dr Qadir Khan for delivering them the nuclear secrets.

reply to post by Attari


1. America supported its ally Pakistan against India in 1971. That is the fact. The reason behind it is immaterial. Had America not intervened, Pakistan wouldn't exist today.

2. Your information about Kargil is pretty much total BS. Check out the facts... en.wikipedia.org...

Obviously you are unaware of the nuances of warfare, such as the Pakistani army holding the high ground and incumbent fortified positions; the Indian army being restrained from crossing the LoC etc etc. Your numbers are out by a factor of 10 on each side!

3. Again, you are sorely deluded about the Kashmir situation. Check out the plight of the Kashmiri pandits (hindus). Their treatment has been the very definition of ethnic cleansing.

4. Yes the Indian army is situated in Kashmir, but only because of the actions of insurgents. How blind do you have to be not to see that it is the insurgents that are destroying the beauty of Kashmir! Every terrorist attack, every grenade that goes off and every blood-spilling riot is caused by the pakistani backed insurgents. Have you ever seen or even heard of the Indian army bombing Kashmiri civilians?

5. I agree that China would not be happy about it, but Pakistan isnt really a counterbalance to Indian and US power anyhow. China should be more concerned about the Farkhor-ayni base in Tajikistan and the Arunachal Pradesh border buildup.

Thanks and regards.

US is going to invade Pakistan?

you can try.
in a situation where people are selling their houses because mortgages are killing them, industry is going down, $ is weak, every year hurricanes are destroying one state... all you need is another war. first afganistan, then iraq, now iran and pakistan?
how strong you think you are?
either you are pompose morons who can't learn anything from history or mobilization is coming soon.
or war mongers are thinking that pakistanis and iranians are fighting with arrows and spears?
solve your internal problems before you take a crap in somebodies elses backyard.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Attari

 

1. America supported its ally Pakistan against India in 1971. That is the fact. The reason behind it is immaterial. Had America not intervened, Pakistan wouldn't exist today.

No way Pakistan is or was an ally of US.US only uses it for its own purposes and pakistan always had the positive side in it.

In 1965 war Indian army stepped into pakistans territory and the world thought that pakistan was gone for good.Since WW2 India sent the biggest tank batallion towards lahore but all those tanks were completely annihilated as hundreds of pakistani troops tied bombs to their chests and dug holes in the ground and acted as mines to the approaching indian tanks.

You really think India can invade pakistan?

At the end of the day its not the the numbers that count its the motivation to fight.On one side you have a muslim army that is embracing death and on the other side you have hindu/sikh army that are worried about their own A$$es.

2. Your information about Kargil is pretty much total BS. Check out the facts... en.wikipedia.org...

Obviously you are unaware of the nuances of warfare, such as the Pakistani army holding the high ground and incumbent fortified positions; the Indian army being restrained from crossing the LoC etc etc. Your numbers are out by a factor of 10 on each side!

It doesn't really matter about who had the high ground or low ground.The fact that 200,000 indian army couldn't take the hights from a few hundred millitants is funny enough and india only managed to get it back due to US intervention.

3. Again, you are sorely deluded about the Kashmir situation. Check out the plight of the Kashmiri pandits (hindus). Their treatment has been the very definition of ethnic cleansing.

If india doesn't spare muslims living in india i.e gujrat massacre,barbari mosque destruction etc etc..than what makes you think india will spare muslims living in kashmir?In kashmir ethnic cleansing has taken place and thanks to ISI and millitants that keep repeling the indian army.I have personally seen a video of how these millitants lure indian army into dense forest areas and masaccre them.Well thats guirella warfare for indian army.

4. Yes the Indian army is situated in Kashmir, but only because of the actions of insurgents. How blind do you have to be not to see that it is the insurgents that are destroying the beauty of Kashmir! Every terrorist attack, every grenade that goes off and every blood-spilling riot is caused by the pakistani backed insurgents. Have you ever seen or even heard of the Indian army bombing Kashmiri civilians?

Indian army doesn't bomb civillians.They arrest civillains and give them a nice treatment.Theres a reason why soo many young muslim men from kashmir go to pakistan to get trained and come back to fight indian troops.India turned kashmir into a hell-hole not pakistan!

5. I agree that China would not be happy about it, but Pakistan isnt really a counterbalance to Indian and US power anyhow. China should be more concerned about the Farkhor-ayni base in Tajikistan and the Arunachal Pradesh border buildup.

China doesn't have to worry about anything,look at the size of its army

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Attari]

Screw Pakistan if they want to keep harboring terrorists then they will get what they deserve.

reply to post by Attari


Youre not even worth arguing with...

1. India could crush Pakistan... history will act as evidence provided you READ ACTUAL SOURCES instead of making up your own version of human land mines and heroic mujahideen. I bet you're one of the extremist sympathisers who buys into that whole "pakistani soldiers are only given one pot of honey to feed themselves and a load of bullets to feed their enemy" BS.

2. It bloody well does matter who had the high ground. You obviously have very little education in this regard... any basic military historian will tell you that the high ground and incumbency give a 10-fold benefit!!

3. Get your numbers straight if you want to even talk sensibly. I linked you to the article... its 30,000 troops, not 200,000.

4. So you spend your spare time watching muslim extremists mutilating Indian troops... sheesh thats quite a frank admission. What exactly does this prove besides the barbarity and animalistic tendencies of the insurgents?

5. Dont ever forget that it is Indian restraint and civilization that prevents them from cleansing Kashmir of all the muslim extremists. Just because the insurgents dont have the same respect for human life is by no means a superiority... it just means that they are not fit to exist in civilized society.

I just cannot believe all this crap.
All countries all around the world spend vast fortunes (billions)on weapons to kill (they say to protect) so that the world leaders can control the rest.
Every year millions die from starvation, poverty,diseases,hurricanes ,earthquakes,floods,wars,greed, what difference does it matter,colour, creed, race?
We are all in this world together, why cant, we abolish all this money that is spent on more arms (there is enough nuclear missiles on the earth to destroy the earth many times over) and put this money to better use,feeding the poor,better medical for all . Even the rich in this world are not problem free.
There is so much confusion going on,even the politicians bluff their way around solutions.
It is time for the people ,the ordinary people, to tell the leaders what we want, we don,t need 4 years or 5 years in power, soon as there is a mistake kick them out,the people should be in control not politicians,they work for us.

reply to post by duffster


Can't help but notice the original source being www.presstv.ir, the English language Iranian based news. They seem to be putting out a bit of propaganda at the moment. Or I could be wrong. Just don't eat it all up without considering your sources first. Keep an open mind and be aware of the people that would steer your opinions to suit their personal agendas.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Attari

 

Youre not even worth arguing with...

1. India could crush Pakistan... history will act as evidence provided you READ ACTUAL SOURCES instead of making up your own version of human land mines and heroic mujahideen. I bet you're one of the extremist sympathisers who buys into that whole "pakistani soldiers are only given one pot of honey to feed themselves and a load of bullets to feed their enemy" BS.

Its not the pakistani soldiers that are given a pot of honey but the insurgents who use them,they get a map on how to cross the LOC with an AK plenty of bullets and an RPG on the shoulder.I am no extremist sympathiser and BTW im not even a muslim so get you're freakin facts right mate.I am just stating the facts on how much BS the indian army is made of.Indian army is 10 times bigger with all the millitary equipment that can out do Pakistan anyday but they stil can't even take a little piece of land called 'kashmir' from pakistan let alone taking pakistan itself.Indian army is superior than pakistani army in every way but it can't even handle a few millitants,Pathetic if you ask me.

2. It bloody well does matter who had the high ground. You obviously have very little education in this regard... any basic military historian will tell you that the high ground and incumbency give a 10-fold benefit!!

So where was the IAF than? Were they too scared to fly over kargil just in case the RPGs can reach their A$$es?

3. Get your numbers straight if you want to even talk sensibly. I linked you to the article... its 30,000 troops, not 200,000.

30,000 or 200,000 the point is they didn't manage to get those heights without US intervention!

4. So you spend your spare time watching muslim extremists mutilating Indian troops... sheesh thats quite a frank admission. What exactly does this prove besides the barbarity and animalistic tendencies of the insurgents?

Naa i spend my spare time doing much better things,i saw the vid on Al jazeera in 2003.So luring indian troops into dense forests makes insurgents animals and barbarians?

Its called 'guirella warfare'!

5. Dont ever forget that it is Indian restraint and civilization that prevents them from cleansing Kashmir of all the muslim extremists. Just because the insurgents dont have the same respect for human life is by no means a superiority... it just means that they are not fit to exist in civilized society.

That one cracked me up!

I have seen the treatment of muslims in india so don't tell me about how civilized india is.Thousands of muslims massacred all under the nose of hindu politicians and their police.

Kashmir belongs to muslims, [snip]






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[edit on 10/9/08 by JAK]

when will the coalite troops learn that not everything in an burka is an member of al qaida.. whenever the troops raiding a village. en tells us that *** terrorist are killed.. I have great doubts........:-(

This just a show. The U.S. has attacked on Pakistani soil for many years now. The Taliban and its sympathizers will retaliate against Pakistan for allowing this, so what better way to say we threaten the U.S. just to appease the Taliban.

What are they going to do? I mean look what the US told them a while back:

"During last week’s US media blitz to promote his new book, Musharraf claimed soon after 9/11, US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage warned Lt. Gen. Mahmud Ahmed, head of ISI, Pakistan’s intelligence service, the US would “bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age” if it did not immediately turn against its Afghan ally, Taliban, and allow the US to use military bases in Pakistan to invade Afghanistan."

www.lewrockwell.com...

Doesnt sound to me like they have many balls at all really.

Gonna be interesting to see the take on their new PM, whats he gonna do?

reply to post by CaptainCaveMan


Looks like you believe everything your government says And i guess you think 9/11 was all the work of osama bin laden

Just because America says some thing don't mean it's true

Any country has the right to defend its self