I don't want to talk about it . . .

I remember September 11th 2001. I would have been in New York but my mother, god bless her, was in hospital. I watched the first plane hit the tower from her bedside. I remember that I was already in shock and seeing the devastation unleashed on downtown Manhattan simply blew me away. Mum died two days later. . .

hey s-dog,
thanks for sharing your feelings. I too was in NY at the time and i'm still here today. on the 11th i was waking up on a day off when i heard a large plane fly right over my bed and then crash. I lived on franklin st. about 10 blocks away. i thought about running outside to see what happened, but instead i sat in front of the TV all day. I felt the ground shake five times, two crashes and three collapses. I finally left the apartment late in the afternoon to take some photographs (it's a hobby). we were allowed to stay in our apartment since we still had power. I didn't cry until about midnight after a few shots of whiskey.

I'm one of those people who doesn't believe a word of the official story, although i don't presume to know exactly what happened, and i reserve the slight possibility that i'm completely wrong. I believe, though, that what happened was an illusion. the deaths were real, the planes were real, the tragedy was real, but the scenario was an illusion, and what is so painful these days is that the documentaries and the tributes and the ceremonies are also illusions. And they're presented as historical fact. and that's hard to erase. the memories are illusions and i'm afraid that they will always be, because even the best of people don't want to revisit so much pain in order to set the record straight. a few years ago i was angry, when i first started to think for myself, and i tried to tell other people to get angry too. now i'm just sad that i can't get that anger back. it's nice to go on with my life, but the hole is still there.

now i live even closer, on john st. and the hole is literally still there. I can look down into it from my rooftop. i walk by it at least twice a day. tourists still ask me how to get to ground zero, and i smile and point. the base of the new tower is going up. they're working on it, but soon it will not be a construction site anymore. it will be a fabulous complex of architecture. and it will also be an illusion. a shiny glass cover-up. thanks for reading.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


You really put it down in a much more understandable way this time. It is never easy to lose anyone or to go through a catastrophe. Let alone something like this. I feel for you and your wife and everyone else who was anywhere near that event.

It has changed so many lives and I can honestly understand why you would rather just forget about it and move on.

Good luck with it and hopefully one September 11th day you will be able to wake up to the smell of fresh air with no worries or impacts from the memories that you will carry with you until the day you walk off into the sunset.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Sad post...

But are the innocent Iraqi's, Afgans and god knows who else, also worthy of a toast of remembance?

Since your corrupt government did much, much more than destroying its own people.

Lots of people died on 9/11, but still many, many more people are smelling that vile smell of death in unconnected countries.... where US soldiers are too blind to realise that the people they are murdering in the name of 'the war against terrorism' are not the same people who commited those acts.

Yet, the soldiers are too blinded by hate and ignorance to realise this.
Your media is too controlled to show you this...
Most people care little for the unknown children crushed by US bombs...

and unfortunately, i feel your pain, anger and hurt, but Americans were not the only people to suffer....

I think you misunderstand the military. Yes, there are those in the military (many have posted on this site) that agree 100% with what they are doing. However, they are not blinded by hate. They are blinded by 'orders' given to them from the very top. Their mission may be a lie but they, in general, are not allowed to question that. They simply want to get there and get back to their families. Unfortunately there will always be those sad few bad eggs that make a terrible name for ALL soldiers.

Yes, we Americans were not the only ones to feel the effect of this event. It spread across the whole globe with the biggest impact felt in the Middle East where our misguided and corrupt administration has lied us into.

reply to post by dariousg


The National Guard men and women assigned to our neighborhood were tremendous. Most of them from rural upstate NY. As opposed to the local EMTs, they had no local knowledge, most of them had never been to NYC. And they had a very difficult job. In fact two jobs. One, was to protect us in case of another attack, the other to basically manage all the secured areas. Since we were living in an area where all only the residents could get through, we'd run into them five six times a day. They were always kind and patient. And all the residents opened their homes to them if they had space. Within a few days it became clear that Afghanistan was in the cards. We talked about it with them. Some of them were scared, all of them were angry and protective on our behalf. I always knew that if there was to be in any conflict, they would be the ones the enemy does not want to face. I thank them and hope they're back safe with their families.

I wanted to point out this documentary that looks very interesting and relevant to this thread. Unlike the usual 9/11 tribute/investigation documentaries, this one deals with some of the psychological issues associated with memories and objects.

Objects and Memory premieres Monday, September 8, 2008. Check Local Listings to see when it is airing on your local PBS station.

During traumatic events, the normal flow of day-to-day life is disrupted in an instant. In the aftermath of sudden upheaval and incomprehensible loss, people seek a bridge between the irreplaceable past and a hopeful future. The documentary film Objects and Memory examines the innate drive to maintain connection and continuity by preserving the past and speaking to the future.

The project emerged from the New York-based filmmakers’ personal need to understand human responses to the 9/11 tragedy and evolved into a documentary film and related educational initiative. Never before had so many historically significant items been produced so suddenly, and curators were faced with the struggle of anticipating what future generations would consider valuable. At the same time, people from all walks of life felt compelled to preserve resonant objects or bring offerings to sites of remembrance.

Narrated by Frank Langella and with music by Philip Glass, Objects and Memory traces the actions and motivations of these people and relates stories of the objects' symbolic transformation. The film weaves together narratives of those directly affected by the trauma of 9/11 with interviews of those driven to recover objects of personal or historical value. Vérité scenes from the aftermath of 9/11 in New York and behind-the-scenes footage of the recovery effort paint an evocative portrait of how everyday objects become treasured possessions following a life-altering disaster.

PBS

This one I might actually watch.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Hi Schrodingers,

Thank you for the invite to this thread. Rarely do I post outside the 911 conspiracy forum. I am not very popular there as I am a skeptic.

My family is all from Massachusetts and we all come from a long line of firefighters. (I chose another profession) My older brother has been on the force for over 20 years now. He volunteered as a grief counselor many years ago. His job was to offer comfort and support to those that were involved with tragic events. So often we forget what these first responders go through.

When a child is missing you have the state, local police, other volunteers etc. looking for this child. The sad reality is that not all get found alive. When this happens we all think of the poor child and the family. (rightfully so) What does not get any press is the sadness and overwhelming grief of those that were searching. My brother helped those people.
My brother pulled his best friend out of a fire they were fighting together. Charred to the point he could only tell were his teeth were. He also spent a week in Worcester Ma. to help the brothers that lost 9 of their own at one time.

He thought he has seen it all. Until of course the day the earth stopped. He was called within a couple days post 911 to get to ground zero to help his brothers deal with their grief.

Dropping him off, he seemed determined to get down there to help. I didn't hear from him for about a week. Then he called and asked me to pick him up at the train station in Rhode Island.

I will never forget the look on his face when I saw him get off the train. He had witnessed the results of a war. Something that we all only had seen on TV as children. We all watched those "other" countries on fire, gun shots heard, dead bodies in the streets. It was real, and it hit our home.

He sat in my car, smiled, and gave me an FDNY baseball hat. The smile soon disappeared. Stories started flowing like water. Stories that his brothers were telling him as he visited them at their stations. Stories of the bodies still being removed. My brother got home to his wife and 4 children a different man. Being an EMT he had seen many things. Nothing like this though.

His smile disappeared for months. He shut down completely. My once outgoing, non-stop, little league coach, give you his shirt off his back, big brother was in a chair all day and night. Staring at the ceiling. I would sit with him for hours asking him to talk to me. He was detached. He would tell me that he was so afraid to close his eyes because of all the visions of his past would return. The people he saw dead from car accidents, his dead burnt friend, and what he had witnessed at ground zero.

Finally late in the summer of 01, he chose to "go away" for a while. He left his family to seek therapy. He came back better, but still not my big brother.
His meds kept him sedated somewhat. It wasn't until mid 2002 that he came back to his family. He was himself..... somewhat.But even today, as you look in his eyes you can still see that blankness. Almost like a sharks eyes.

This is why I am so passionate about 911 and the families that still suffer today. I think of them almost every day and pray that they will all find peace.

I hope the same for you.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by coven
9-11 f'ed me up when it comes to planes. probably won't be able to ride in one again either.

Hi coven, sorry it has taken so long for me to respond. I have to take a break from thinking about this stuff every once in a while. Not so much for myself, but when I'm on it too long I start affecting my wife and dog with my energy. So I take breaks out of respect to them.

The planes are another interesting memory. I'm not talking about the horrific memories of the impacts. Personally, I had no fear of flying after 9/11. Though I hated landing at Newark because half the time you would fly in from the north, basically down the Hudson, and would see the whole magnitude of the disaster with your own eyes. In fact that was the only way to experience that. On the ground you would be too close and on tv it's not the same. So landing at Newark became a massive emotional coin toss depending on which approach the plane took.

One thing that I will say to those who are investigating 9/11 just from my observations landing at Newark. I'm not sure what the approach altitude is by the time a plane reaches lower Manhattan on final approach. But it's pretty close. But even when you are that close, as you look out the window, and imagine being at the controls trying to hit a large midtown building, it seems almost impossible to do with precision. Like I said, I am no expert, but the buildings even at that range are really really small. Can a pilot with a few flying lessons do that? I don't know. And I also don't want to turn this thread into a debunking session, cause too many wonderful people have contributed and I want that to continue. I just thought I would throw that out there.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

The whole world was weeping

Not everybody in the world was weeping, 'the powers that be' wheels were still rolling.

Miss Moore's memo, written at 2.55pm on September 11, when millions of people were transfixed by the terrible television images of the terrorist attack, said: "It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors expenses?"

Sept 11: 'a good day to bury bad news'

reply to post by franspeakfree


Then Frans, I kindly suggest you start a thread in the 911 Conspiracy Forum. Your post is off topic. How about a little respect for the op?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

Then Frans, I kindly suggest you start a thread in the 911 Conspiracy Forum. Your post is off topic. How about a little respect for the op?

Thanks for saying that TY.

Speaking of the OP.

A member from another thread was "confused" by the fact that I wrote this thread as a New Yorker whilst at the same time having my avatar space reveal that I live in DC.

At least I hope it was confusion and was not accusing me of a terrible terrible thing.

So clarify this point: People move, and we did just that 3 years next month.
There, no more confusion, I hope.

SC and TY, thank you for what you've shared.

Autumn is always such an invigorating time, what with the sky's annual fall. The end of a cycle. Months earlier, the dormant beast within shakes off the slumber of winter. The fresh-faced spring then steps and bounds into the sun-bleared hustle and bustle of summer. And the grand finale, an arboreal blaze of glory, painting the set while we all seem to harvest the crops of our year.

To deal with this process that you must endure each year at this this change of season is an exceptional thing to contemplate.

Staying on track here, I'll just say that I don't believe in coincidence. Far more importantly than my more external, if not extraneous impressions, I offer my appreciation and humble support to each of you so closely affected.

When we watch the attacks on TV, we relive them, with all the fear, the pain, and the saddness we felt at that timel. I don't have to work tomorrow, but my TV won't be on, or if it is, I will be watching a movie, or listening to music.
I don't need to see those images again. They are burned into my brain, as surely as if someone had used a hot iron.
For those who lived in New York, and went through this in a more personel way, I wish I could make your pain better. I wish I could go back in time, and make this all go away. But I can't. Not yet anyway. Maybe someday!
We need to track down and punish those who were responsible for this. An like the Mossad traking Nazis, we will find them, and we will punish them. (Perhaps we should enlist the Mossad's assistance in this matter)

Well, it surely is now then.
Seven years ago, 1:10 in the east coast.
We're just getting back from dinner. Lots of friends, Thai food, a little buzzed walking home. Jill, my wife of barely a year in my hand and heart. Cuddles then sleep. Great cuddles and sleep.

Right this moment I think I'm going to swim into that memory.

Other memories will surely invade me later.

But they're not welcome in this moment.

For any of us.
For these were truly our last moments, when we were children.
And we remember those too, for they were truly OUR last moments.

John Muir who was a wildreness advocate back in the Late 1800's said something that brings me a little bit of comfort when someone close to me passes away. I think it is appropriate for a day like today.

"Let children walk with Nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life."

My morning routine used to be to watch Good Morning America while drinking my morning cup of coffee. I had just put my kids onto the school bus & was chatting with my sister while she was heading to work. You see, My b-day is September 12th & I was complaining because she had once again planned a not so suprising party for me. I had also commented about how I was looking forward to my trip to NY City(was to be my second that year) because I would actually have a couple of days to sight see. (never really had the chance on previous visits.)

Then, just as Charlie & Diane were siging off, they came back to say a plane had hit the first tower. At that moment, every part of my body told me that our lives would forever change. The feeling was so overwhelming that I begged my sister to turn around, to call in, because I needed our family together. (She did) I then called my husband to come home as well & while I spoke to him, the second plane hit. I told him I needed him home now as well & that I wanted him to get the kids from school. (He did as I asked.) I figured at that moment if we were going to die, I wanted to be with the people I loved.

That evening, my b-day party turned into a family trying to coupe with the overwhelming grief of what had happened and trying to figure out how to explain something like this to a small child when you don't have the answers yourself. My gifts still sit in the attic. I never opened them and probably never will.

That was the last time I acknowledged my birthday. My sister decided this year that I needed to have a party again, but it still feels wrong to celebrate my life when so many are grieving the loss of the ones they loved. Our lives forever changed that day & I think many learned a hard lesson. It's one thing to read about horrible events that happened in the past, but it's a whole different thing to witness them, to have the feelings attached to the event. Even as I write this, I feel as if it was just yesterday, the overwhelming grief is back as well as some tears.

Another 9/11, another tummy ache.

I just thought I would update members regarding one of my original posts at ATS:

Like When A Skyscraper Falls Down

So here we go again and my five year old has stomach troubles...off to the doctor but I am quite sure it's psychosomatic (sp?).

So yeah, I don't want to talk about it either. Peace S-Dog.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt
I hate your chosen tag. It's disgusting and vulgar. Yet, you sound articulate from time to time. Wanted to say that...

Anyway, SD I want to express my sympathy for the way you are feeling. The feeling that comes with loss is NEVER a good one, I can relate, beings I lost my mother when I was 11.

But it is never good to run away from emotions. They are always there anyway. When I dug into the truth of my moms death, I found alot of truth that quite frankly, I did not want to hear. At that time, I had a choice to make, face facts, or hide from them. As you break through your pain and find purpose, life, your life in specific becomes vastly more important.

Hiding from inescapable emotions, only serves the purpose of the people who exploit them. So, while I do sympathisize for you, its that mentality that got us in this position in the first place. The world is a very scary ugly place and believe me 9/11 or not we have it better than the majority. Turn your sadness into purpose... seek truth of the events regardless of how painful.

A phrase I reluctantly follow, Hate what you despise... I wish the world could be all about love, but its not. And I hate all that controls and deceives and uses us. Sorry to bring such a serious tone to what was supposed to be a comforting thread. Im just fresh out of comfort for this topic. Im not depressed about 9/11, im downright angry. I want answers and I want this # to stop.

Originally posted by Looking4LikeMindz
I hate your chosen tag. It's disgusting and vulgar. Yet, you sound articulate from time to time. Wanted to say that...

Sorry... I only recently learned that is was a vulgar term. It was a term that is used by Pulmonary Therapists. When they suction out vent patients they call the stuff Lung butter and throat yogurt. I guess the later is in the "Urban Dictionary"...

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


A friend had the same problem with kabuki.

Anyway, the feelings I described in the OP are fast fading away. It happens the same way every year. It looks like everything is good for another 360 days.

I cannot thank you all enough for the interest you showed and for the openness with which you expressed yourselves. Your support was inspiring.

Thank you all so very much.

BIG BIG LOVE from SD.





[edit on 9/11/2008 by schrodingers dog]