Gov Palin's 5th child not really hers???!

reply to post by Kai Winters


Bravo!

I agree. I had previously wondered why she would enter into the race with McCain with a 5 month old baby with Down Syndrome. The baby, Trig, actually being her daughter's son would make sense, but I question the 'Pro-Life support for keeping the baby after Pre Natal Tests showed deformities' mantra if indeed the baby is her daughter's.

Why lie in the first place? Well, first of all, the State of Alaska has a population almost exactly the same size as the population of the City of Fort Worth Texas...
en.wikipedia.org...

As of the 2007 U.S. Census estimate, Fort Worth had a population of 681,818.

en.wikipedia.org...

Est. 2007 683,478 9%

I would imagine that 'politics' in Alaska gets pretty rough. Palin has been Governor for less than two years and has already been accused by her rivals of impeachable offenses. Are they true? To be determined, but they are very telling. Telling as to why a seemingly honest woman would choose to lie in this case. But more importantly for me, is how the lie has been spun, and spun out of control.

I think Palin's choice of VP might be exciting to you and me, as political drama. But I think in the long run it will be destructive to her family. Either because she is away from her 5 month old baby with Down Syndrome too much, or because of the scrutiny she and her family will receive.

I wish her the best, but I think as a running mate, McCain's judgement here is terrible.

But then again, maybe her choice on the so called 'Exxon/McCain' ticket is actually political sabotage on the grandest scale. Her time on the campaign keeps her from her duties scrutinizing the oil companies at home in Alaska. Then at the end of the campaign, once her family has been drug through the mud, she will be a wounded woman without a job and a strained family.

We will see. Truth is, as soon as it can be determined whether McCain or Obama has more ties genetically to the Queen of England and the Pharohs of Egypt, we will know who our President will be. I have heard that Obama is related to the same 'cousins' as Bush and Cheney. All I know about McCain is his Admiral father and grandfather.

DocMoreau



[edit on 31/8/2008 by DocMoreau]

reply to post by uplander



For most mortals I agree with you - it should be up to them how they want to handle a pregnancy. You might have a dilemma however regarding statuatory rape if that's the case here.

But this is no mortal - its the potential leader of the 'free' world. She's made this an issue by hosting up the baby and showing it off as why she's so great. Basically she's trapped:
-If it turns out to be false, and it is Sara's baby, then we have a pro-lifer basically not caring about the welfare of their child - traveling when this could put the baby at risk. If she's so cavilier about the life of her own baby, how's she going to gamble with lives of the troops?

-If it turns out Sara lied and she's really the granma, then we've not only got the lying politician angle + the hypocracy of her moral beliefs + clear lack of vetting by McCains 'excellent' judgement. Plus, she's parading this baby deceptively - what kind of leader (or mother) is that.

reply to post by poet1b


She's not running for the Suzy Homemaker Award, she is running for Vice President of the United States. She is irresponsible in her family life and doesn't need to be second in command under McCain.

Scenario 1: It is her baby. It is her fifth child which also happens to have down syndrome. She needs to attend to her growing family and the needs of that child.

Scenario 2: It is her daughter's child. No one is guiding these children or raising them appropriately. She is teaching them that is ok to lie and ignore responsibilty.

Either way, she should have declined the nomination and gotten her priorites straight at home. She accepted for her own fulfillment and not the benefit of anyone but herself. I am sick of baby mill parents that pay no attention to their offsprings' activities.

So to sum up the information that was out there...

1. No one that worked with her daily had any clue that she was pregnant until she made a speech about it at the point of 7 months.

2. Her daughter missed months of school with "mono" at exactly the same time that the baby was born.

3. She was on a plane for at least 8 hours after her water broke.

4. She made an entire speech after her water broke.

5. She was back to work 3 days after the child was born.

Color me intrigued.

reply to post by jdpapa3


On February 8th, her daughter (the one with mono) was involved in a fender bender in Wassila. She was driving alone.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I remember when my water broke,no way could you stand for 30 minutes and give a speech people !even with depends...something's not right...too many coincidences. Daughter sick, living with aunt.Pro Life woman who keeps pregnancy a secret. Something STINKS in Denmark !!!!

Originally posted by Spoodily

Either way, she should have declined the nomination and gotten her priorites straight at home. She accepted for her own fulfillment and not the benefit of anyone but herself. I am sick of baby mill parents that pay no attention to their offsprings' activities.

Gee, Barry O. has two young daughters at home and admits that he sometimes doesn't see them for a couple months. Maybe he should follow his own advice and be a better dad.

And by the way, Gov. Palin already responded to people who might suggest that they have a problem with her having a career and a family. She said she would gladly walk those Neanderthals back to their caves.

well in retrospect, after thinking about it alot, and talking about it with other people in real life - im glad i started this thread

im glad i brought it up for discussion

its become more than apparent that the people slamming me for "morality" are not Jesus, they dont know anything about "morality" as they are "Sinners" just like everyone else

Justamomma made great points about how the far right people slamming me for "immorality" actually dont care about any of the starving children, or poor children who will never have oppurtunity

their moral high horse is a house of cards, its flimsy and a complete illusion

they have no moral authority, God is the only one with moral authority

God made the 10commandments and I have no broken any of them by speculating on this subject

this subject is not taboo - nor is it wrong to discuss it

a bunch of people talking about a politician or her family on the internet does not harm them in any way , in fact , if they even cared, they would say " Oh well im rich who cares what poor people say on the internet" or something like that - really they dont care what we say about them

so this moral high ground arguement is bunk- its deflection

DEFLECTION from the conspiracy theory being presented

i bet the people in this thread, reaming my rear for being so morally inept, are even bigger sinners than I am !

i have kids, they are happy, my wife loves me and she is happy
my friends love me and they do not hate me, as i am a good person with a good soul and kind heart

so really the ONLY arguement agianst this conspiracy theory has been that its "IMMORAL" to even speak of it
its IMMORAL to "think about it for even a second"

what a load of bull

no politician is offlimits, no subject is out of bounds

i am personally sick of people trying to give me political correctness speeches, trying to tell me how to morally conduct myself, when in reality, those people are bigger sinners than I am

on one side, they say its immoral and sick that I even point out the existance of a damning controversy surrounding their political canidate, and on the other hand, they spend ALL DAY screaming for America to BOMB other nations ! (iraq afgani iran russia etc)
massive moral hypocracy at its worst

so ive decided, im gonna stop backing down in the face of their moral high ground arguements, and I will continue to ponder and expose what I think is a viable issue

so if you cant stand what I am saying or thinking, there is a IGNORE button under my name - click it - i really could care less

after the very interesting points that others have suggested, I am now of the position that things do not add up

I have spoke with 5 women that I know in real life (one being my wife who bore me 2 wonderful children) , that it is utterly ridiculous that Palin would have her water break - give a speech at a convention WHILE HAVING CONTRACTIONS (absurd) then hop on a 10hour flight back to Alaska with a high risk preg WHILE HAVING CONTRACTIONS- risk her own life and that of her child - and then give birth in an alaska hospital
This is totally absurd and makes NO SENSE

these women who have had children - told me that when your water breaks, the Doctors INDUCE birth as quick as they possibly can, because if a woman becomes "Dry" after several hours, the birth will become extremely painful and nearly unbareable

thats why things dont add up one bit. It has become clear to me that Palin most likely did not give birth to this child. Its not logically feasable when the facts are laid out in front of you .
Oh but its "morally reprehensable" I even started looking into it. Please.

first they said I was the originator of this, that i hoaxed it all by myself, and that i work for obama (read my other recent threads and you will see thats IMPOSSIBLE)
Then I have people post in my defense, showing that this rumor DID IN FACT start with locals working with Palin

and now im about to freak jamie and the others out big time

My wife suggested that , maybe, just maybe, if it was palins' daughter's child in the first place
Just maybe the child doesnt even have Down Syndrome in the first place
Maybe its Fetal Alchohaul Syndrome? Im not saying thats the case, but it was a suggestion she made , that i thought was a good speculation that could explain several things in respect to the subject.

Ya I just said it, u dont like it? Click the ignore button and get over it.

Its a conspiracy theory about a politican - and about how she lied to everyones faces, conducted a cover up, and a half-arsed cherade to make everyone think it was her child
then she damned her own daughter - never letting her be the rightful mother to her child - damned the father by never letting him be the rightful father to that child --- Then they get on the moral "high ground" and say that she should be commended for doing such a thing

Ya right - Lying is never "Good or Right" Its always Wrong and reprehensable.

So no, I will not be voting for her. I could never bring myself to vote for a Liar. Plain and Simple.

Thats why I am agianst Obama and Mccain, I just cant vote for Liars, its agianst my morals.

There is no "Authority on morality" other than God himself/herself/itself

And so I will not accept the personal attacks generated agianst me in the spirit of politicial bias mudslinging. I will continue my path of questioning every politician on EVERY SUBJECT no matter how "Low" you may say it is. Because in reality, ITs wayy lower to bomb other nations and kill their civilians.

So in reality, I probably did a good thing by even bringing this up. In reality, God will probably not see any wrong in my heart, as he knows that I am a good person and I love humanity. I question authority. Thats pretty darn patriotic I think.

Call me what you want but only God has the right to Judge me. You dont like my thread, or its implications? See that Ignore button? Click it.

Otherwise grow some thicker skin. Stop being so sensative. Its only words after all. Its speculation. Speculation is different than claiming something as fact.

The mods did not trash this thread, or ban me, why? because overall I am a good member of this website, I always follow the terms and conditions, I always apoligize and make amends when I screw up. I have a good history here and I have been very forgiving and fair in my statements. I am open minded and always leave room for me BEING WRONG. If im wrong, explain why and in the face of facts, I will back down, and apoligize and Admit my faults. It allows me to grow and learn.

So yes, Im glad i started this thread, and spurred this wonderful discussion about morality. I myself have learned alot of things already from this discussion, and I thank everyone who participated. Both sides of the arguement. You have both taught me invaluable lessons in life. I appreciate your contributions. Thank You.

Especially You jamie, thank you. Your comments have caused me to go into deep thought over the issues, and have allowed me to really question Who I am and ponder my own morality/spirituality. However I disagree with you, but you have taught me invaluable lessons.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt it should be said.

This thread has taken some interesting turns.
But another thought on the "is it her baby or her daughter's" issue. I would hope and expect the McCain people did a very thorough investigation on her. That being the case I would suspect the baby is indeed hers and the daughter issue is mere coincidence. If the baby is the daughter's and the McCain people missed it or gave it little regard they are fools and absolutely not to be trusted.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Especially You jamie, thank you. Your comments have caused me to go into deep thought over the issues, and have allowed me to really question Who I am and ponder my own morality/spirituality. However I disagree with you, but you have taught me invaluable lessons.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt it should be said.

You're welcome. I respect the thought and introspection you've done, and understand where you are coming from. I totally respect that.

I also would like you to know that I have started my own charity to help poor children, contributed a significant amount of money to build a medical center in a third world country, and adopted a child from another poor country. I mention this just to expand your views and hopefully make you realize that your blanket statements are not necessarily true.

My main concern over this type of "investigation" was the impact these rumors might have on the 16-year old daughter. My wish would be that people might investigate and substantiate the allegations before throwing out nothing but pure speculation that could very well harm this girl in a real way.

And from a practical standpoint, there is no "investigation" going on here. It's just people yapping back and forth with their opinions and speculations based on the tiniest drop of information.

Of course more people read the National Enquirer every week than National Geographic. I suppose that's just human nature. I guess my hope is that at some point each of us individually would make decisions that would raise our collective standards.

Change has to start somewhere.

reply to post by muzzleflash


"they"? Why are you conveniently ignoring the moderate voice in this? Why are you assuming that I specifically have a problem with you? this same type of thing happened to hillary, when she was in the running for pres and then vice pres. folks are massaging the natural disdain many people have for women as leaders. but my gosh, females, as a general rule, are very well geared for that particular job. from my perspective, it has nothing to do with your morality. i'm not even talking about you. i'm talking about getting a woman in the white house, which sounds very cool to me.

and here's my effort to save children. a pic i painted called "ONE", which is about the millions of female children that have been aborted or infanticided in china since the onset of their one child policy www.gendercide.org...







[edit on 31-8-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by jamie83

You're welcome. I respect the thought and introspection you've done, and understand where you are coming from. I totally respect that.

I also would like you to know that I have started my own charity to help poor children, contributed a significant amount of money to build a medical center in a third world country, and adopted a child from another poor country. I mention this just to expand your views and hopefully make you realize that your blanket statements are not necessarily true.

Change has to start somewhere.

I think that is very honorable of you, to do such a thing. I salute you for such actions. That is truely a good deed and I will not ignore it.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

i'm talking about getting a woman in the white house, which sounds very cool to me.
[edit on 31-8-2008 by undo]

I would love to have a woman in the white house too. Hell, An asian woman or a mexican woman, I really dont mind what color/sex they are.
I do indeed like change.

But electing people who lie, regaurdless of color/sex, is bad . This isnt about sex or color, this is about Lying. And thats why it is important.

reply to post by muzzleflash


i can guarantee that a woman could be freakin' mother teresa and the opposing parties will find a way to manipulate her right out of the picture if she's not on their ticket, or they have a male preference. yes, the best person should get the job, but ya know these same tactics were used to get hillary out of the running. there are so many nations out there that have had or currently have, or have for hundreds of years had, female leaders.. what are we the only nation where our females aren't worthy ? only our women are scumbags? horrible mothers and so on?

like i said before, our nation is really weirded out about the idea of having a female as pres or even potential pres (VP), and the opposing party of whatever side the female candidate is on, uses that to delete that opportunity for women.

we be weirdos.


[edit on 31-8-2008 by undo]

reply to post by muzzleflash


As an R.N. who practiced my profession for 40 yrs. and with extensive obstetric experience, I can vouch for the fact that when a mother's amniotic sac breaks, she should, first of all, lie down. This is to prevent the umbilical cord for slipping into the birth canal, which it is inclined to do. When the umbilical cord enters the birth canal, each uterine contraction squeezes it and cuts off the baby's oxygen supply, leading to brain damage.
2 scenario's here: The mother wished God to take the life of her unborn DS child. Or she is not the mother, because as a mother of 5 myself, the birth canal more readily adjusts to the descending fetus of a gravida 4 and you will deliver that baby within hours of your water breaking. Especially when you are a RUNNER...that baby will fly out!!
Just had cataract surgery so I hope I have not made spelling errors. Thanks.

Although the burden of proof is on those making accusations, it is the responsibility of the defense to provide explanations in the form of evidence to repudiate accusations.

Governor Sarah Palin has brought this situation upon herself & she has only herself to blame. She brought this on herself by being secretive of her pregnancy & not thoroughly explaining the apparent deficiencies in her explanations.

To allow a situation such as this to continue to fester is not politically advantageous. As Gov. Palin is not readily known to a majority of Americans, perception of her likely personality will play a key role in potential voters' abilities in determining whether to vote for Senator John McCain based in part on Gov. Palin's abilities to perform adequately on the Presidential level.

A display of reasonable evidence would invalidate claims that this child belongs to someone other then Gov. Sarah Palin.

If I was advising Gov. Palin concerning this situation at this moment, my advice would be to issue a truthful & detailed statement that accounts for significant accusations expressed thus far. This statement would be augmented with documented evidence supporting the statement, including but not limited to medical records, sworn affidavits & the like.

The sooner the situation is addressed definitively by the elected official, the sooner the elected official may conduct themselves in the manner they best see fit to continue in their pursuits.

The apologists sound just like Edwards supporters last year when reports started breaking about Ms. Hunter.

If it's true, it's commendable but very politically expedient. Not to mention hypocritical since she's against sex education and only believes in teaching abstinence. Yeah how'd that work out for you ?

Originally posted by undo
and here's my effort to save children. a pic i painted called "ONE", which is about the millions of female children that have been aborted or infanticided in china since the onset of their one child policy www.gendercide.org...

Great painting! China is where I adopted my youngest daughter. It made me literally sick to my stomach watching the Chinese government glorified by the Olympics when they systematically cause the deaths of millions of baby girls every year.

Yes, it is gendercide, and it disgusted me seeing Bush and Putin at the opening ceremonies.

I think the term everyone is missing is integrity. The definition is the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness. She seems to have some issues with this. First is trooper gate, she is trying to fire her ex-brother in law after a messy divorce from her sister. Next is the accusation that she is covering for her daughter who gave birth out of wedlock. A lie is a lie is a lie. Either one of those should be enough to keep her out of the country's second office and potentially the first.

DailyKos backs off.

www.dailykos.com...

Unless someone has counter evidence, we can drop this crap now. Yes, there are still some interesting questions, such as why she flew to Dallas and back when she was this pregnant, and why the Alaska Airlines crewmembers insisted that she was not visibly pregnant on the flight. Nevertheless, until this photo is debunked, we look stupid pushing this rumor.

.........

Flogging this rumor in light of what seems to be pretty solid counter-evidence is just squandering whatever credibility we have. In the words of Janor Hypercleats, "They's laughin' at you, boy." There is so much more that we could be highlighting regarding Palin; we don't want that to be tarred with "from the same people who smeared Palin's teenage daughter..."