Why Ghosts are not Real

reply to post by Soulstone



This is a long thread. Can't remember if I've posted in it previously or not.

I can appreciate the OP's logic and understand why the dramatic thread-title (as explained by the OP)

Can offer no explanation concerning those who were murdered on 9/11 and their claimed lack of appearance in ghostly form.

However, do we know for a certainty that the murdered victims were not witnessed by their friends and family ? I don't think there CAN be any certaintly about that for many reasons:

* shocked and grief stricken family and friends of the deceased may not have believed they were actually being visited by the ghost of their loved-one .. they may have attributed the visitation to grief, shock and wishful thinking

* they may not have reported the ghost visitation of their loved-one/s because they may have feared that to do so would 'cheapen' the memory of their loved-one

* they may have feared others would suspect they were trying to 'cash in', exploit or sensationalise the tragedy

* they may have feared hurting the bereaved who had NOT been visited by their deceased loved-one/s

* their religion, personal beliefs may not allow for ghosts

and so on.

So we don't know for a certainty that the ghosts of 9/11 victims were not seen, have not been seen or even if they're still being seen by people who simply choose not to publicise the fact.

As to 'ghosts are not real'. They are. I'm as sceptical as anyone else. I've seen three ghosts. Not many, during a long life. But they were ghosts alright. And the last one was able to be identified, later. He'd been dead approx. six months. His organs were still subject to laboratory testing according to a family member, because the cause of death was still unknown.

The ghost was fully life-like. Only thing that set him apart from a living human was the fact his legs tapered away to nothing below the knees. Other than that, you would have thought he was a living human.

no ghosts are real i saw one at tuntern abbey at night one night when i was there because it looked like a monk but was white and misty and walked across the grass into the abbey at night and then disappeared

it couldnt be anything else because i saw it with my own eyes and thats how it was

but i dont know about 9/11 and why there are no ghosts there becuase maybe there should but theres not

who knows why maybe they are there but they cannot be seen yet or something like that

Originally posted by Soulstone
I have seen what is needed to be seen. I now have faith such things exist. I have found the answer to my questions.

...wanna expand on that a little for us? Only if you're comfortable doing so of course...

...but certainly has me all interested to maybe hear any reason why - again, if you're willing to share...

reply to post by alien


Of course I will share. That is the purpose of this forum!

The answer came to me through self analysis and other various research I had been working on. I noticed that I was discounting the information simply because I had not experienced it. This was very ignorant of me because I have experienced telepathy an assortment of times and down to such an exact point that it could in no way be coincidence. So I know telepathy exists yet other people have not experienced it on the level I have. Therefore they may very well discount it. But someone discounting it or not believing it does not change the truth. The truth is a constant. It is only through personal experience that you can truly know. So you see it was rather arrogant of me to dismiss something because of a lack of experience.

Certain bacteria and such that do not possess a brain still have consciousness. Bacteria left on a plate with one side covered and the other not, will all move to the side that has light. There are certain plants that can sense when a predator is close yet they do not have a brain. The ground-hugging mayapple plans its growth two years into the future, based on computations of weather patterns. And many who visit the redwoods of the Northwest come away awed by the trees' survival for millenniums - a journey that, for some trees, precedes the Parthenon.

www.csmonitor.com...

The true source of knowledge comes from experience. I have had intense dreams where I have left the body and been able to retrieve foreign information from sources I could not have if I were in the physical. In these "dreams" I simply have a new body that does not hold to the physical rules of this earthly realm. I have been able to find out what people I know have been up to during this state and bring it back to the physical.

reply to post by Soulstone


Awesome. Thanks for putting that out there.

I guess - like you - my *proof* comes from experience also. Will post up some more regarding that when I get some spare time.

Just wanted to acknowledge you and your reply.


Cheers.

ok as I said before I work in a shop that appears to be haunted...last Friday we had some very strange goings on....there is a flight of steps made out of steel leading upto the shop,and you can hear people walking on them when they go up or down them,well I was tidying some shelves and re-organising a display right at one end of the shop..I kept hearing footsteps on the stairs so,thinking a customer was entering the shop I kept going to the the counter which is near the stairs and there is no one there,I got so fed up with keep having to go to the counter I said to the lady who works in the office that I keep hearing what sounds like footsteps on the stairs and she said that she had been hearing that all morning before I came into work! We were the 2 only people in the building and she had been on her own prior to me coming into work.
Well eventually a customer did come into the shop and as I walked up one of the shop isles to serve them I heard an almighty crash like something breaking in the other isle,the customer was at the till and there was no one else in the shop at the time...thinking it maybe the display I had been re-organising I went to investigate to find an unbreakable glass that had somehow flown off the shelf half way up the isle with the stem broken on it! (I work in a caravan accessory shop-so have unbreakeable glasses and plates etc....) I hadn't even touched the glasses on that shelf!
Later after I had left, the other girl told me (the next time I was in work)that she were serving a customer and the radio that plays in the background went up really high,as she were the only one apart from the customer in the building at the time,invisible hands must have been at work....she said the customer looked at her and she looked at him and said its not me...lol...
As I said before we have alot of strange goings on in this shop and these are just some of the latest happenings that I thought I would share here..I guess the sceptics will tear this apart

[edit on 22-10-2008 by special]

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by dave420
It seems you've placed your own experiences on a pedestal of untouchability, as if they are never wrong, can never be misunderstood, and are always 100% accurate portrayals of

Actually it is like this Dave. You exist in MY reality. You ONLY exist in my reality. If you are not typing in response to my posts, or being broad minded if I do not read that which you have typed, you simply do not exist. So yeah, whatever I perceive is reality.

Prove me wrong. : )

Sonya, I absolutely love you lol. As I have put Dave420 on my ignore list I no longer see his posts and therefore he is no longer part of my reality. He simply ceased to exist with the click of a button.

As to whether ghost are real or not. IT IS MY OPINION that every one must make this decision on there own. I have seen numerous spirits for a long time, but the only prove I have are the few people that have been with me at the time. I to wonder why there haven't been reports of ghosts around the towers and other places. One way I see it is that it was simply there time to go and that is why there are no ghosts. Although in order to believe that I would think I would have to accept destiny and fate, and I am not ready to accept that yet.

If you want to see a ghost just dont belive in them if you think about it if u belive in them then they dont have a reason to show themselvs but if u dont belive in them and express it in a place that has had paranormal activity then you are more likely to see one since it will have a reason to show itself.

I personally have never seen a "ghost" but most of my family members said they seen them and I'm not saying little balls of light or glimpses out of their pripheral vision. I'm talking face-to-face, wide eyed encounters with them. I'd believe them before a person on the internet anyday of the week. I continously asked them every.....maybe year or two.....to repeat their encounters and they do word for word.

My uncle and mother had an encounter on the same night. It was late and my uncle and mother were sitting on the couch. My mother went to go to the bathroom past the kitchen and when she was to enter the bathroom and flip the switch, there was a "woman" floating in front of her( My mom said she had no feet) in what appeared to be a white night gown. My mom alo said she had no face. Just a sort of dark, misty, viel where her face should be. Obviously she ran away screaming for my uncle.

Right before my mom screamed, my uncle said, as he was sitting on the couch, he felt what appeared to be someone beginning to sit down. He looked and he saw an indent on the cushion next to him as if someone just sat down......but there was no one there. Right as my mom screamed, the indent disappeared and my uncle said he heard banging on the wall right above the couch where he was sitting as if someone was running across the wall.

Those sequence of events happened mere seconds apart.

My grandmother, on a different night, had an encounter with the same woman my mom saw I think. My grandma was sleeping and woke up because she had the urge to go to the bathroom. As she began to get up and unravel her covers, she stopped and saw a woman at the edge of her bed. My g-ma couldn't see if she had feet because the bed was blocking the view, but the "woman' had no face and described to me in similar details what it looked like. No definition with a black, misty veil over it. Like looking at darkness where her face should be. Same white gown.

I'll have to tell you how brave my g-ma is. She has always been fascinated by ghosts and said if she ever got the chance to talk to one, she'd do it. Well, my g-ma asked her something......dang...I forgot but it must have been something expectant such as "who are you" or "what do you want". The "ghost", in turn, disappeared. My g-ma then continued to get up and go to the bathroom and go back to bed. I know, I know. You're thinking: "How is she able to do this after seeing a "ghost"!!!". I asked her the same thing and she said it didn't bother her with the wave of her hand. Scared to death of mice but doesn't mind trying to talk to a ghost. God bless her.

I would trust my family with my life and I take pride in being able to believe them. If they were joking with me, they'd eventually tell me, but they stick by with what they said and I believe them.

Like I said before, I've never seen a ghost and I spent many nights alone in my grandma's house and never seen the "lady". However, I can't help but remember what they all told me whenever I got up to go to the bathroom......

reply to post by MegaBears


I went to High School in Hobart. How did you do with the flooding?

I agree with you on the point of believing family members over a faceless name on the internet. So many people come out with some outlandish stories its hard to say who's telling the truth and who isn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lake George has some activity given its history.

reply to post by MegaBears


People. Get. Confused.

That's it. Until you can rule out people being confused, either on their own or in a group, it is the height of irrationality to assume their inherently-flawed perception as the verbatim truth.

Yes, I know they're your family and it might not be the most comfortable thought that they are confused about what they've experienced, but it happens. Surely you want to know the truth and not just believe what people tell you? 'Deny Ignorance' and all that?

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by samureyed

 

I agree exactly! I really do. However the strange "something" is the fantastic ability of our brains and sensory systems to confuse us.

If I saw something thrown across the room, it still wouldn't make me an instant believer, as it wasn't in a controlled environment. That is my whole point - believing in something based on your own experiences is not rational. We are too easily flawed. Our perspective on the world is intrinsically limited, and often flat-out wrong, and yet we have no way to actually realise that. That is why relying on our experiences is irrational.

Forgive me, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.........why is it that so many people go to church every sunday, or other place of worship yet they can not say that they have seen the One and only God - or Gods as the case my be.

You can't see viruses either, but we all know they exist. As far as seeing everything in a controlled lab under scientific srutiny......I want to know who has a lab big enough and heat resistant enough to observe the sun or any other planet that exists in our solar system or others that we cannot witness with our own eyes.....

Scientific srutiny has its purpose....I think we would all agree with that, but not everything can be observe in a lab. We knew alot about trees, and soil and the air, long before any scientific labs where built. And although encounters of any type, may happen to single individuals, the fact that so many individuals have reported them certainly deserves some investigation. Many people baulk at psychic abilities, but that doesn't change the fact that the US government has spend billions of your tax-payer dollars on researching it and utilizing it. If abilities didn't exist, then why has so much $$ been thrown at the research since WWII - and yes, I said WWII - not the 70's as most people think.

Take some time to research into the types of research that are going on out there folks. Physists trying to mathematically prove life after death......now why do you suppose they would be doing that???? Why do you think they are looking at string theory and hyperspace.....because, it brings some of these things together......

I too, have trouble believing in things I can't see....but I've seen them, I've lived with them and I've spent many years trying to find a explanation for them. The fact is that there's alot of unspoken science going on right under our noses......if you know where to look.

reply to post by hILB3rT

I went to River Forest and I just move to Hobart. I gratuated the year before the flooding so it didn't really affect me all that much accept when you wanted to go across the bridge. lol

reply to post by HauntingzInk

One other thing I wanted to add - if you read the theory of relativity, Einstein clearly states that the simple fact that an observer is present when a scientific experiment is conducted, changes the results.

So, Dave, in some ways, I would have to agree with you. Just because someone witnesses an encounter, does not mean that we know it's true nature.

reply to post by dave420

I tend to agree with you but from what they told me, I have to assume they weren't confused about anything. If just one of those things my uncle and mother experienced happened, then I'd be skeptical, but with all those things happening the same night seconds apart, it's hard to imagine all that at once.

I would think my grandma just sleepy and...well....half asleep when she seen the "ghost", but when she described the woman in which the likeness was the same as the "ghost" my mom saw, I didn't know what to think.

I don't know who saw the ghost first. My mom or my grandma but I do know they were on seperate dates. Stupid of me not to ask but I will soon and see what happened first.

It's not like my uncle saw a curtain move a little in the corner of his eye, he felt and saw the couch make an indent and heard loud banging above his head on the wall. You could say that he was mistaken and that he just heard my mom's footsteps as she was running back but where he heard the sound doesn't fit to where she was running. The arch that lead to the kitchen to the bathroom from the living room is to the right of the couch with my uncle being about 10 ffet away from the arch so if it was my mom's footsteps, it would be muffled somewhat and would be coming from his left. he heard the banging coming from right above him and was distinct.

However, it is a small, old house so you never know.

Our inherently-flawed perception of everything around us should cause more accidents and deaths as the red light we see at an intersection is only a figment of our imagination and so is the truck in front of us on the road so no need to brake. The old lady with a walker is crossing the road and we swerve out of the way or stop for her because we see her. If we believe our perception is flawed then the old lady would be dead. Should we ignore the people and things we see in our daily lives because our perception is so inherently flawed? Sorry folks, eye witness accounts hold up in a court of law and get people put away. So unless someone is tripped out on drugs or alcohol, I would say that what is seen is credible enough for me.

I want to help, but to do so, I must ask a question..

Firstly..

What?

What exactly are you having a hard time believing? "Ghosts" aren't Real. I don't even know what that means. When you say 'Ghosts' what exactly are you talking about? There are so many competing theories about what 'Ghosts' really are that to simply say... "Nope, I don't believe in ANY of it" is to spit in the face of literally thousands of pieces of evidence, most of which I am not going to waste my time even discussing, because we all know so much of it by heart.

So, what aspects of the "Ghost" phenomenon are you having a hard time believing in?

reply to post by HankMcCoy


Great post.

Victor Zammit has put up a huge reward to anyone who can successfully debunk the "afterlife" and gives a wealth of evidence in favour.
Saying, "I don't believe because I've never seen one" seems to be a little naive to me. I've never seen......let's say....an Australian Common Brown snake.
I've seen film....But I've never seen one, so let's say I don't believe they exist. Same argument, isn't it?

www.worlditc.com has some incredible scientific research. Has the OP'er read all of the data there?

Maybe the people killed in the world trade center were meant to die that day, and accepted it, and went to the light and moved on. The theory on ghosts is that when the living person died, they werent ready. They still had things to accomplish in their life or do, and they died before they had finished what they needed to accomplish, so they stay in our energy field, in our world, instead of moving onto heaven or whatever comes in the after life.

So thats one theory. Maybe world trade center was a day that was already pre-planned for the people who were there. Maybe it was just their time to do and they didnt want to hang around here anymore and were ready to pass on.

But give it a couple more years. You might just start to hear reports of hauntings when they build on top of the ruins of world trade center.

reply to post by calihan123


Or, even more simply, without having to concoct theories, ghosts don't exist. That would easily explain why nearly 3,000 people murdered in their offices during a normal business day felt OK to go to heaven. Makes a bit more sense.