Why Ghosts are not Real

Originally posted by Soulstone
reply to post by nunya13

 

But it's like saying keep an open mind that the Lochness Monster exists. Which doesn't make sense biologically. There isn't anymore proof of ghosts than there is of that. I think the existence of ghosts can be disproven simply because there are no neanderthal or dinosaur ghosts. Why do "ghosts" wear clothes that are outdated? Why are they the clothes the experiencer remembers seeing them in. Why do they wear clothes at all?

People see and believe what they want to. That's why.

not true....to an extent. in regards to people who live in the box, this is prob the case though no way do people ask to see the paranormal.

you are very sceptical on the subject and thats o.k because no-ones going to make you beleive, though dont ask silly questions like 'why do ghosts wear clothes' when you know that cant be answered. its like asking why is the sky blue.....

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Well, for those wanting to see science more involved this would be a great step toward some hard evidence for or against the abilities to "see" activities labeled paranormal. It seems that someone started along these lines some years ago but I have no idea who it was or what the findings were. I might be confusing it with something else. Maybe it was people with esp claims. Anyway. I've seen some pretty useless research money spent over the years. I'd really like to see someone try something like this.

As for trying to get the ghost, spirit, whatever it may be dealt with in a more scientific level the people are going to have to go where the claims are like these "ghost hunters" do (I'm not talking about that show on sci-fi channel..Just using the term meaning people that wish to investigate these type of things). There is a lot of equipment that people use to attempt to rather show the presents of paranormal activity or try to debunk it. Surly some of these learned men and women could make an honest attempt to try and investigate it in a manner that would satisfy both the believers and those riding the fence needing more hard core proof. Those that just don't believe it wont be swayed even if a ghost/spirit took them out for pizza

Like I said, I am one that chooses to believe what I've been able to witness but I would also love to see some hard core scientific research done on several aspects of the paranormal realm.

Originally posted by Sendran

Are you saying these experiences are definitely related to the dead or do you not know what they were?

I have no idea. Many take the form of those who have passed, while other non-visible entities look like reptilian. Many of the dead I have seen literally wander around aimlessly, they look somewhat transparent but at the same time they are not. They are usually pale, and seem very confused. The human-like spirits seem to be confined to the areas they "haunt" and are unable to leave it. The reptilian spirits or spirits of light or shadow spirits seem to move about freely, the ghosts sometimes seem unaware of these other spirits, and at other times they stare at them, or their faces look as if in fear. The confined spirits are allowed to "leave" if a being of light, or shadow, or a reptilian creature grabs it and drags it with it, where they take them I do not know, as I have only witnessed this on a few occasions.

I have not personally witnessed an entity interact with or move objects. But I have had unexplained instances where objects have been thrown across the room, moved, or mysterious footsteps, doors opening and closing, furniture being dragged, etc. I have even witnessed shadows being cast upon walls that clearly show a figure moving in front of the light source.

My problem is that I can not "see" them all the time, as it tends to be sporadic and I have no idea what causes it. I also am unable to hear the spirits clearly, as it sounds almost like they are whispering or not speaking loud enough. Many times they are even mute. There have only been a couple of instances in which I could hear them. One time was when I was cleaning up a local park, picking up trash, etc. I heard someone behind me ask "Why are you doing that?" Without turning around I told them I was trying to make a few extra dollars while helping the community. The man then said "If you need money I will give you money." I turned around all excited thinking this man was going to hook me up and there was no body there, but in the distance I saw a ghost-like man staring at me, whom just walked off behind some trees.

The spirits of light and the shadow entities don't make any sounds, they just dart too and fro, occasionally interacting with the spirits or reptilians. The Reptilians come in 3 forms from what I have witnessed, one looks like a human but with skin and eyes like a snake. Then there are smaller ones that look very similar to the characters in Gremlins, but their face looks more human-like. And then there are these frog-like beings that have human-like faces that tend to sit on people's heads or shoulders, making strange buzzing/hissing noises.

It sounds crazy I know, but it is a "gift" that i do not want, nor do I envy those whose gifts stay on 24/7. I am just thankful mine comes in spurts and then vanishes for weeks, even months at a time. When I do have the gift "turn on" I tend to ignore the unseen spirits as best as I can. I have also performed numerous rituals to ensure my home has barriers against spirits.

The conclusions I have reached? That there is some things out there that we can not see, and it is real. I don't know if they are really human spirits, or if they are beings existing in another frequency of reality. But they do exist. They are everywhere, with cities having literally tens of thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands of these beings, that walk around and attempting to interact with the "living" that walk around. I do not know if the spirits are evil, or of the reptilians are evil or if even the light of dark entities are evil, but they exist. I also do not know what the frog-like beings are, but they seem to hop around or sit on the heads or shoulders of people, with the people looking somewhat distressed, so I concluded that it might be a negative entity, but I can not be sure of this.

reply to post by DJM8507



Interesting story. I recall hearing about someone (relative of a friend, don't remember the details) that had a near death experience and started seeing ghosts for several days following. The stories stood out because of what he saw. For instance he noticed a man hanging out at a house down the street, and the old guy kept complaining about the porch that was added on to the house (presumably the guy was the ghost of the man who lived in the house).

And also something about fire stations, how fire stations seemed to have a lot of fireman ghosts hanging out. Which makes sense, as firemen tend to bond so closely with eachother, they live together a good portion of the time. A lot of attachment there.

Now I suspect some ghosts are actual souls that are hanging around, but of course a lot of ghost sightings are more like glitches in the time/space continuum. Events being replayed even though the actual players are long gone.

But regardless, here is a point to consider. I think the human concept of "time" probably plays a big part in it. Someone thinks their house is haunted by the ghost of someone who died 5 years prior, and they are all in a rush to HURRY the person into the white light or whatever. They must FIX the problem of this errant soul. When one is dead the concept of time is no doubt COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If for instance an disembodied soul wanted to hang out at their old house for a while, to them 10 years may pass like 5 minutes. For us to presume they are "trapped and must be rushed off as quickly as possible" could be very judgemental from the human point of view, and we could be imposing our sense of time and timeliness on them. If they had showed up 1 day after their death that would strike many believers as fine, just saying goodbye, whatever, but if they show up 10 years after it is often seen as a big problem that needs to be fixed.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
reply to post by DJM8507

 

But regardless, here is a point to consider. I think the human concept of "time" probably plays a big part in it.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Excellent point, the measurement of time is a human thing, with events and experiences seeming to vary person to person.

Last Autumn, my dearest uncle appeared in a photo taken on the occasion of the burial of a famous actor and writer. His coffin was exposed at the National Theater and, at the moment the coffin was to be taken to the cemetery, there was a crowd watching it. Everybody in the photo looks at the door of the Theater. Everybody, except my uncle, who has his head turned to the left, so revealing clearly his face to the camera. He was dressed exactly the same as he ever did during the last years. His face had an afflicted expression.

My uncle had died in February, 2002.

I e-mailed the photo to his widow and son, they were absolutely impressed. My aunt said: “If I didn’t know it can be true, I would say it’s him”.

Possible explanation. When he died, the three of them were living in another town, far from here. After his death, they used to visit the cemetery every week-end. They had the opportunity to come back to our town two years ago, but have not yet brought my uncle’s remains as they have had many things to arrange.

Maybe he feels lonesome now he is no more visited, in a place he doesn’t belong to.
Who knows...

Originally posted by ceman43


I e-mailed the photo to his widow and son, they were absolutely impressed. My aunt said: “If I didn’t know it can be true, I would say it’s him”.

Would you be willing to share this photo? We all would really appreciate it.

any thing that lives and breathes with be able to be a ghost belive me.
i do beleive in ghosts.
but i do often wonder why there are no ghost at the world trade centre site who knows what will happen when the new tower is built there, perhaps then when its open there will be reports then.

it would be interesting if there is

reply to post by kerrichin


All guesswork on your behalf. There is no evidence to support your claims.

If you want to stick with strictly a spiritual discussion, I don't believe in ghosts as they're commonly described. "Ghosts" aren't the spirits of dead people. They are demons out to trick and scare people. They're just having fun at the expense of humans.

reply to post by Tomme73


Or they might be the remnants of left over sandwiches haunting those who discarded them. If we're not going to stick to the facts, we're not going to get anywhere - anyone's unsupported assumptions are just as valid as everyone else's.

Reply to DJM8507: I think I can't add the photo. I kept it among "My images" but don't see any possibility to copy and paste here.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

Originally posted by CrusaderOne

Originally posted by Soulstone
I think the existence of ghosts can be disproven simply because there are no neanderthal or dinosaur ghosts. Why do "ghosts" wear clothes that are outdated? Why are they the clothes the experiencer remembers seeing them in. Why do they wear clothes at all?

The reason there are no ghosts of neanderthals and dinosaurs out there is simple, spirit energy wears out over time, like when you play your favorite music CD over and over again, after a while, the sound gets more and more unlistenable. There are documented cases from victorian times of people seeing Roman Legionaires marching through their homes, but now, that energy has been expended, and the ghosts have simply stopped appearing...

Ir's the same thing when it comes to seeing ghosts of people from Victorian ages, they wear period clothes because to them it's still 1799 even if a few hundred years have passed since thier deaths. I'm not making it up, as a believer I've taken a few trips to Gettysburg (about 1/2 hour from my home) and have seen ghosts of civil war soldiers running around the grounds at night.

We don't imagine spirits, and we don't just remember clothes, sometimes when a ghost manifests itself the clothes are the most memorable part of the experience a person may have had. And this applies to unexplained noises too, I'd stayed at my grandma's house overnight a few years ago and I still remember the jingling of her dog's licenses on his collar... The dog, Tippy, had died a week prior to that experience. And that was just the dog's way of letting me know he was still around to watch over the house. I don't hear the jingling anymore... This could be for 1 of 2 reasons, either the spirit energy has been used up, or Tippy has gone into the light.

So your saying ghosts don't have consciousness? They still think it's 1799? What do you mean the energy wears off? In physics we learn energy cannot be destroyed. What do you mean the energy being used up? What is "going into the light"?. How do you know what "the light" is? How does the "ghost" know what is memorable to us?



[edit on 3-9-2008 by Soulstone]

reply to post by ceman43


Have you tried Photobucket?

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Deaf Alien]

Originally posted by Soulstone
So your saying ghosts don't have consciousness? They still think it's 1799? What do you mean the energy wears off? In physics we learn energy cannot be destroyed. What do you mean the energy being used up? What is "going into the light"?. How do you know what "the light" is? How does the "ghost" know what is memorable to us?

I thought you said you had looked into ghosts and done some investigations?

You are not aware of the concept of residual hauntings? The idea being the actual spirit/consciousness is not present. The scene just keeps replaying again and again, as if its a glitch in time, or as if there has been an emotional imprint left. The specters do not interact in any way, they simply do the same thing again and again, like watching a movie replaying.

And the idea of the energy dissipating seems reasonable enough especially in the case of residual hauntings. The story about seeing Roman Legions is very cool though. That certainly does not defy the laws of physics.

Read this short description:
www.kyghosts.com...

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Well all this topic has become was a debate.

I asked questions that now appears can't be answered. All we have is theories and knowledge that is trivial because none of us have actually experienced death.

The thread started as a series of questions. There have been some good theoretical responses. I was foolish to have asked for truth in a matter that none here including myself can conceive. Then it moved onto whether or not what people are seeing is ghosts. Instead other theories were presented. Some neglected them and stuck by their beliefs others accepted the possibility. But what I've realized is in the end it does not matter. NONE of US have had the first hand experience.

I still don't think that there is a life after death which is scary especially since I'm undergoing an operation tomorrow. I remain open minded though that there is that possibility of an existence after the time of you are physically deceased. I will not overrule it. How can I?

I will probably not be returning to this topic as I have to prepare for some events that may be coming. I need to center myself and stay away from the forums for awhile.

God Bless all who have posted here and the other members of ATS. The truth seekers. Perhaps I will see you all again, perhaps not.

Til next time.....

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Here is Photobucket IMG code:

Oh, my God, I hope it really works. Never used it before...
Thanks for your interest.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I must be very dull. I'll try once more and if it doesn't, I'll abandon

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Sory, he is the one at right hand, with a grey cap.

reply to post by dave420



The issue with the stance that things must be seen in order to be true is actually as irrational as believing in ghosts, so to speak.

The LHC (Large Hadron Collider) is supposed to show us particles that have yet to be seen in the universe. Not particles that are one in a trillion to be detected, ones that have literally never been detected. By your logic it would be just as delusional to believe that these particles will exist as it is to believe in ghosts.

Now of course you can argue that people have spent thousands upon thousands of hours working out equations after equations to prove that these particles exist, but hopefully you can at least see my point here.

Having skepticism is an essential part of life as it keeps us from believing everything we hear, but having too much skepticism is as debilitating as having none at all.

Exploring the universe and all of its workings requres that we at least accept the possibility that things could exist beyond our comprehension, and that the only way to find them and to ever understand them is to believe in them in the first place.

This doesn't mean that ghosts do exist, as I cannot prove or disprove this. All this means is that before esentially telling someone they're stupid because they believe in something you don't, consider the possibility that you might be wrong.

Finally, just because something seems competely un-scientific doesn't mean that it's immediately wrong. Ghosts have always been part of the story-telling realm and have therefore basically lost all scientific acceptance, but just because something isn't a fundemental particle of the universe that we can't see at this moment doesn't make it immediately impossible and delusional.

- Cieco