T-shirt gets Van Nuys woman kicked out of federal building

reply to post by amazed

Gilbert said the guard cited a document, the Rules and Regulations Governing Conduct on Federal Property, as proof he had jurisdiction over her clothing. The document does not address what type of clothing is allowed in federal buildings.

Doesn't matter. It's at the discretion of the guard. If he thinks it will be disruptive in any way, he can kick her off the property, and even arrest her if the situtation were to escalate beyond that.

Whatever "reprimand" this guard gets is purely window dressing. What the guard did was completely legal, like it or not.







[edit on 8/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by BlueTriangle

There was a time not too long ago where a 5 or 6 yr. old didn't need to know what a lesbian was. I long for those times again.

. . . and babies were found in the cabbage patch or dropped from the sky by a stork.

How about this T-shirt?: www.mommy.daddy.how I got here

There is just one thing I have to say to this subject:
Can you say censorship?

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Doesn't matter. It's at the discretion of the guard...What the guard did was completely legal, like it or not.

But of course (other than the guard) no one there agrees with you.

Did you even read the article?

You do realize that the guard does not have plenary discretion? Right? Because if you disagree, I'd like to see you produce that specific law.

I'll save you the time. It doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Graber
Can you say censorship?

No.....

Just dumb contractor/employee.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by loam]

reply to post by loam


Just to be clear, I don't happen to agree with the guard's actions, but that still doesn't change the facts. The guard could have told her to leave the building without even giving any reason at all, and she would be required to comply.

But of course (other than the guard) no one there agrees with you.

Again, it doesn't matter who agrees with me, the truth remains. If I'm a guard on duty, even in a public building like the state government building I was posted at not long ago, I can run you off the property if you look at me wrong.

Take skateboarders for example. I ran skaters off the property at least a few times a week, even though there was no posted rule against it. My word was the rule. If they failed to comply, they could be, and were arrested. I tried to be cool about it, having been a skater myself when I was younger, but some of the other guards and the building manager were real nasty toward them.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
I find it offensive and not a free speech issue at all. The word "lesbian' describes a person with a particular sexual preference, or can be used to describe the sexual act itself. Either way, I don't want to know a stranger's sexual desires or to have that knowledge forced on my children in a public place. I'm pretty sure I would be thrown out of a Federal Building if I printed "I like to _blank_ beautiful young women" on the front of my shirt.

I also think it's ridiculous for gays and lesbians to hold parades. If that's free speech, then we should have a parade every weekend where the rest of us can make floats to celebrate our favorite sex acts.

My that is a pretty strange statement from someone named "mythatsabigprobe". Its free speech. You should be able to WRITE whatever you want on a shirt no matter how offensive. Its called freedom.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Your kidding right? Others Guards, the people at the fed building, and his company said it was out of line even the DOJ said it was out of line.

That is simply abuse of power.

Can you show me exactly where it says security guards are allowed to interpret the laws/rules (or lack there of) to thier own ends?

Originally posted by jackinthebox
...The guard could have told her to leave the building without even giving any reason at all, and she would be required to comply...

...If I'm a guard on duty...I can run you off the property if you look at me wrong.

Not quite.

Your legal authority ends when it is exercised for reasons that violate the law.

You couldn't possibly believe otherwise, could you? Because if you do (and you're actually in the profession), THAT is chilling in and of itself alone.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by loam]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
I find it offensive and not a free speech issue at all. The word "lesbian' describes a person with a particular sexual preference, or can be used to describe the sexual act itself. Either way, I don't want to know a stranger's sexual desires or to have that knowledge forced on my children in a public place. I'm pretty sure I would be thrown out of a Federal Building if I printed "I like to _blank_ beautiful young women" on the front of my shirt.

I also think it's ridiculous for gays and lesbians to hold parades. If that's free speech, then we should have a parade every weekend where the rest of us can make floats to celebrate our favorite sex acts.

what if your shirt said hetorosexual.com?

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


I have a t-shirt that says in big letters "GWM", and underneath that (gay white male). I got it in Provincetown a few years ago. I dont usually wear it however.....

In honor of 'mythatsabigprobe' I am going to wear that shirt ALL day tomorrow while I spend the day with my hot man... in fact, Im gonna give him a kiss or two RIGHT IN PUBLIC!!!

A little PDA for all the homophobes out there! See, I dont need a parade 'mythatsabigprobe' to annoy you





[edit on 27/8/08 by xander68]

What does one do when your child see's a flash of something inappropriate on tv or in a magazine or a book or on the street? what does a parent normally say? "Don't worry about it honey, ill tell you when your older." easy as that. Or you can choose to talk about it to your child and educate them. They are gonna eventually come in contact with others different from them at some point in their life. (especially in California where im from)

are people offended by bob marley t-shirts with a marijuana leaf behind his head? shirts with saw wielding mass murderers like the guys in Halloween, or chucky or freddy? Is it offensive to a homosexual to see a guy wearing a t-shirt saying "I love my wife"? What about wearing a shirt with a controversal celebrity on it? DMX? Madonna holding her crotch? micheal vic, O.J. Simpson? Dr.Kevorkian? Jeffery dahmmer? the list can go on and on, and really Most young children are not gonna pay much attentions to "WORDS" on a shirt, they are more likely to notice a transformers, or sponge bob shirt.

This world is so full of hate, people telling others how to live, what is right, what is wrong, If you really think about it, the beginnings of homosexuality is bad is a religious law. and if a person does not follow religion then who are they to follow a law that does not effect them? People put so much wasted sweat and energies into telling others how to live, if we could just bottle that up and use it in place of oil..

Just remember, America is the "Land of the Brave, and the Home of the Free"

This woman who was accosted by said guard, Is brave for wearing the shirt, and she is free to do so.

I bet you that the guard actually looks at 'lesbian' smut on his computer when he gets home anyways....

[edit on 28/8/08 by DataWraith]

reply to post by BlueTriangle

I don't want to have to explain the word lesbian to my 6 year old.

You'd rather have it explained by a classmate or older child, then?

Why are you so keen on keeping your children in ignorance?

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Ariana9
I like gay guys, but lesbians all are so militant and have a chip on their shoulder it seems.

A sexist homophobe? Wait, is that . how.. *scratches head*



Just kidding, couldn't resist that.

Effectively I agree with you here, *BUT* Im not going to get involved, because all these cool cats have their claws drawn and theres nothing worse than being attacked by cats with sharp claws...

Originally posted by johnsky
Do you take offense to people wearing certain colors too? Might look a little too much like another countries flag for some peoples liking.

How about the words, Democrat, or Republican?
They interfere with your life just as much.

Heck, a paramedics uniform may get your children thinking about death a little too soon.

I'm offended by you. Do I get to ban you?

No, but you do - if you want to - get to revise the way you go about attacking someone for their point of view.

You're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the guy for an opinion that I would consider a very large majority of the population also thinks. That the Right to protect their children from what they consider inappropriate is undeniable.

Sexual behaviour is not the same as political preference, flag loyalties or death. It is a choice that affects no-one but themselves and does not require people to vote for them, fly their colours and certainly not harm them.

So why is there a need for such advertisement? Someone said 'due to the continuing persecution by bigots like you.' - So, this woman (Who obviously either has a heterosexual partner, OR has had one) needs to wear a "lesbian.com" t-shirt for acceptance?

We will NEVER be beyond the focus of hate from small minded miscreants. That is just human nature. For as long as there are people there will be scumbags. A t-shirt wont help much.

I don't recall the last time a mother was doing something for her son, and was assaulted by homophobic zealots hell bent on persecuting her for her sexual preference, that ACTION needed to be taken in the form of t-shirt wearing martyrs taking one for the team.

This whole thing is so far blown out of proportion it's unsalvagable I think.

Did the guard over-react - Yes, and he needs to re-evaluate what constitutes public obscenity. He also needs to just keep his nose out of innocent peoples business.

Did mythatsabigprobe state anything that has warranted the sheer outrage directed towards them here? No. Not by a long shot. They are well within their rights to demand that their children be protected from things rest rest of us, in other circumstances, would rally for also.

Personally, I would not have been offended. I have no kids. And frankly - and this will get the mob frothing at me - I've never met a lesbain who NEEDED to wear a t-shirt proclaiming such status. oO

Really, I just don't see why the hysterical hate is being directed towards people here, when those it is directed towards have done nothing but express an opinion that is well within their right to do.

It's not like they are advocating the death penalty or ostracisation of this woman form crimes against moralty - but yet the penalty is still ridicule, abuse, red-neck/bigot/homophobic accusations, as if they were the one who ordered the guard to march on with his gestapo duties.

i am embarrassed at my home town of Van Nuys.

Just down the street there is a lesbian bar. They have great karaokee.

Originally posted by gnosis111
And as far as your children learning something when they want to learn it, is just not how the world works. When did you ever as a child have the right to choose what you learned??

So, let me ask you, you are content to let a stranger educate or even speak to your young children about sex in general, let alone sexual behaviour, sexual preference, sexual fetish, or otherwise?

This is effectively what you are stating within the context of this thread.

In order to generate acceptance where accepting is part of a give and take relationship, there seems to be a lot of taking going on...

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
There was a time not too long ago where a 5 or 6 yr. old didn't need to know what a lesbian was. I long for those times again.

Im not sure, but it seems Americans are super uptight about the whole issue of sexuality.
Again, this is purely due to the religious milieu of the country - despite the fact if one claims to be religious or not.

It is a viewpoint and a perspective, that many seem to identify with (the "this is right" - "this is wrong" bit)...everyone has a small piece of the puzzle and believe they see clearly how it all fits together.

Go down to Austria and stroll down the public path alongside of the Danube and you can watch Grandpa and grandma walking nakedly beside you. Sure a sight you and I may not want to see... But again, certain societies are putting a bit too much emphasis on issues that really are not that big of a thing - well, it becomes that because of over focus or rather fear around such topics.

Proper education, alongside dropping the fear bit, goes a long way.
But not to accuse anyone here, how can we properly educate and live when our ancestors passed their fears, etc. onto us? Step by step we get past it.

And I will say that calling oneself a Lesbian, Hetrosexual, etc. is playing an ego/pain body game. You get lost in an identity and mistake the label/form for who you are.
What freedom is in that?

So then we get polarized sides against each other - when its only mental thought forms fighting against each other. Really, its all kindergarten play this planet earth.

Wonder what would happen if everyone would drop their stories, (on both sides), and decided to have a united front? Maybe we would make that level 1 civilization - until then we remain in the sandbox, worrying about things that wont matter in a few years once we are 6' under. - But then again, those of us applying our wit may find ourselves on the better end of modern science longevity projects...and perhaps 'ruling' the sheep of the world. Hmmm., wonder if that is whats happening now?

Peace

dAlen