Christianity is Imploding!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

The irony of it all is this (and I have said this before on ATS): all of you would call Jesus the Anti-Christ if he did indeed ever make an appearance here again on earth. He would not fit the profile and that would be enough to put you all over the edge!

You might have a point here. It was a good thing that God had the prophets and John the Baptist prepare the peoples hearts and mind to accept the Christ when he appeared. Those with the right heart condition would respond to his message.

Interestingly Jesus knew that the vast majority would reject him. Relatively few in the first Century put their trust in him and recognized him as the Messiah.

One encouraging thing to keep in mind is something Jesus said,

(John 10:14-15) 14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.

I used to call myself a Christian. I do believe in Jmmanuel, the man, who is not the only begotten Son of God. His true teachings have been twisted and turned. I believe in the Creation Spirit. Why would a loving God create you, expect you to accept a person born into a body, as the way to immortality and if you don't then he would throw you into the fires of Hell and then eventually destroy you? Does not sound like a loving God to me. Search google for Talmud Jmmanuel and read the true teachings of Jmmanuel, the one they call Jesus. He says himself that he is not the Son of God and that his true teachings, even by his disciples and followers would become a cult. Christianity has some of the truth, but is a cult. All religions of the world are cults. The truth is we are a small part of Creation, which is ever perfecting itself and through reincarnation (yes we all reincarnate into multiple bodies and lifes) we learn from our mistakes (not Sins) and come back to make corrections and to evolve spiritually. Religion, like politics is a way to control you.

Some people, not all, are accepting this and are awakening.

Jmmanuel says he will come again and judge but not the way you have been taught or have been programmed. Jmmanuel's mother is Mary, the virgin, this is true but his real father is Gabriel, who is an extraterrestrial, not an Angel. So expect him to come with the other extraterrestrials in their space ships in the clouds. He will be returning this century, perhaps by 2015.


[edit on 26-8-2008 by theyareoutthere]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by theyareoutthere]

reply to post by Amaterasu

And KJV was one of the most agenda-ridden versions out there. (I chuckle, knowing that King James was, himself, gayer than a tree full of parrots...)

Yes, we seem to agree on many things. I loved learning about the KJV and its thousands of mistakes and now a whole lot more due to more insight coming out.

It never ceases to amaze me how many do not realize its origins and purpose. But, hey! When one has blind faith what do we expect?

reply to post by Malankhkare


Hey, Malankhkare,

I was wondering if you had read The Terra Papers... Interesting stuff, actually, and though I nearly quit reading them a couple of times, thinking I was reading bad scifi...

It was the back story that kept me going, and in the end I found myself literally shaking from a radical paradigm shift.

Because it answered ALL my WHY's.

The back story is this, and has, in my estimation, a very high probability of being true:

In 1947 a UFO crashed on Hopi land. A group of Hopi were the first to arrive and rescued an alien (said to be what the UFOers call a Blue) named Bek'Ti.

Very shortly after the rescue, the military showed up and the Hopi hid Bek'Ti. They nursed Bek'Ti back to health, and in all this earned Bek'Ti's trust. Bek'Ti, in return and with an understanding that it was to remain hidden, gave the Hopi the history of Earth - with holograms, even.

One of the party that rescued Bek'Ti was the grandfather of Robert Morning Sky, and Robert was one of the younger Hopi chosen to learn the hidden history given by Bek'Ti.

When Von Daniken came out with Chariots of the Gods (which, regardless of Von D's personal character, was based on historical research), Robert saw that it was very close to the history that the Hopi had received, and since he was in a college course about religion, and because he needed a term paper, he petitioned the Elders for permission to write the parts of the history that dealt with Von D's work, being as that information was now out in the public domain.

Thus The Terra Papers were written...in the 1970's, on a manual typewriter, and illustrated by the writer himself.

I bring them up because they do relate to Christianity... But one has to be tenacious - and a glossary helps. It turns out I very meticulously put a glossary together and posted it here (twice, because of editing issues): www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is an element that will remind you - starkly - of Star Wars. Keep in mind that The Terra Papers PREDATE Star Wars, that Joseph Campbell studied the Hopi "myths," and that George Lucas's friend and mentor was Joseph Campbell...

The link is in my sig. What you see are scans of the original documents.

reply to post by Malankhkare

Ask yourself if it is good to use a symbol that is an execution instrument. When crossing oneself just which god are you calling upon? Examine the history of the Church and it is one long tale of horror, death and torture. I also have no doubt that many are still good natured, but they are playing with fire.

Oh, thank you, thank you for responding!! You have made my day. We could probably talk for hours. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Intelligent researched information. We totally agree! I did the thread below on the cross and received a lot of heat. But the information is there to research.

I could not imagine why a divinely orchestrated plan would be allowed to be so polluted by the pagan cross (what was right for Egypt may not have been for this situation). A person need not go far to find its spiritual abhorrence.

My research led me to learn Egyptian and to read the glyphs. The result was absolutely astonishing. I found out exactly who the patriarchs were, and the evidence proving some identities just cannot be faulted.

How wonderful! One cannot argue the evidence, especially if it is blaring. The same goes for "Misquoting Jesus..." I may not agree with everything an author says (you and I both being authors) as you I am sure would agree, but it is the jest of the information that is astounding, and the thought that we have been betrayed by misinformation!

All my life as a former Christian I detested Paul . My gut was telling me that something was not right about him, even though we were required to view him highly. I was grateful for information written about him that gave me affirmation.

It is so freeing! I was trapped by dogmatic beliefs for so long that I consider it a gift to be able to look at everything in a different light, and to not be fearful of the consequences. I place a great deal of emphasis on "senses." If my senses tell me something is wrong - I listen to it, even if others insist that it is right. It looks good, it sounds good, but does it feel right? I knew and sensed Paul was phony but did not get the affirmations until a few years ago.

Most of my findings are in my pages 'Bible Origins in Egypt', but a lot can also be studied in "Tears In Heaven" by Ian Ross Vayro - published by Joshua Books on the Sunshine Coast. His first two books "They Lied to us at Sunday School" and "God Save Us From Religion" dig deep into biblical contradictions and errors and are often nothing less than hilarious.

I will certainly check out the above books, thanks!!

[I knew and sensed Paul was phony but did not get the affirmations until a few years ago.]

How can you say that ...Paul admmited to being CHIEF among sinners ..
He killed christians with joy ....before God called him ....
Because he did so much and was so wicked ..and changed his life to follow Christ should be an inspiration to you to know that God meant what he said ..
That the first shall be last and the last first (because God used Paul tremendously and Paul was a leader amongst the early church and the apostles).
He is also a blessing to me just knowing that its never too late ..And if God forgave Paul who killed Gods people even with joy doing it ........he would forgive the horriblest of things that we have done or could do ....................

reply to post by newday

True men of God walk with God in faith and in fact, not in religious fiction.

newday! Hello! Again we agree on most everything you said. I believe it goes maybe slightly deeper than your post (understanding human behavior is my training) but - right on!

reply to post by MatrixProphet


So The God who spoke everything into existence and keeps it by His will alone doesn't have the power to keep His word intact for the later generations when it would matter the the most? Please.

reply to post by whatsup

Actually, the OT is much more meticulously written (the Law) because the Jewish scribes were incredibly detailed in their recording thereof. Of course, I don't subscribe completely to it's teachings, but I do think it was not sloppily put together like the NT - and is validated/corroborated by the ancient scrolls etc.

Yes, very true. The NT from the first century on - relied on laymen to record and translate. Often they were just local men in a congregation with no training. They did not have scribes to do it, nor were the early Christians deemed important enough to warrant looking at "their stuff."

If this weren't bad enough, copies were being passed around and copied by the: Syrians (Byzantine), Alexandrian. etc.

"Already in the second century, the pagan critic Celsus had argued that Christians changed the text at will, as if drunk from a drinking bout; his opponent Origen speaks of the "great" number of differences among the manuscripts of the Gospels; more than a century later Pope Damascus was so concerned about the varieties of Latin Manuscripts that he commissioned Jerome to produce a standardized translation; and Jerome himself had to compare numerous copies of the text, both Greek and Latin, to decide on the text that he thought was originally penned by its authors." - Bart Ehrman

And this was just a tip of the iceberg! Very convoluted indeed.

It was not until much, much later that professional scribes got involved and even then countless mistakes were made due to the copies they were copying from. If a wording did not make sense to them they altered the words to fit their conception or beliefs. They were notorious for doing so!

Erasmus of the 16th century used a copy laying around and did not search out the oldest manuscript copies but relied on a copy given to him. He was working on his edition of the NT. But... the religious leaders liked the idea of a 3-in-1 God and forced him to include false writings into this edition of the NT.

He succumbed to pressure. Again, this teaching that was so prominent in the KJV was not in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts! It would then become the backbone of the KJV. An eternal error waiting to happen, and this would affect future Christianity!

As I previously mentioned, the big problem for me is; Why would a sovereign God restrict the revelation of himself (exclusively) to one tiny sliver of time and geography and then just "wink out?" I mean come on and have the courage to think people, it just doesn't "float." Whatever God is, he/it is not exclusive to ANYONE!

We agree! It is my belief that we are living in an apocalypse right now, an exciting time to see what God does with all of this. Is he creating an addendum to the Bible? It is obvious to me that he is doing a lot of exposing, as is evidenced by the hoard of books and research out there.

We are able to grasp nuggets of what the real truth is. Does he have to do away with religion to get everyone's attention? Probably. But the real question is; does he care? I believe he will let a lot of people fall by the wayside.

reply to post by Simplynoone

(because God used Paul tremendously and Paul was a leader amongst the early church and the apostles).

It would be debatable as to which God was using Paul. Remember, you are relying on very faulty, convoluted material. I would have placed more trust in the apostles than on this character. Ones who actually knew him!

Also, it is also now known; Paul did not do the actual writing of his letters and some not at all. He had secretaries to do the writing and it is not an established fact that he knew what was in the letters. He signed them but it is not known whether he read them to confirm that they were indeed his words.

IMO he was used to sway man into Christianity and that is not "a good thing!"

It is very possible that it was Satan who blinded him and not Jesus. That he was sent on a mission by Satan and not Christ. He said later (if the words are to be trusted); "Satan transforms himself into an angel of light." Now what better person to tell that story than someone who had experienced that firsthand?

I recommend you read: "The Mythmaker - Paul and the Invention of Christianity" - Hyam Maccoby

reply to post by sir_chancealot

You are witnessing the apostasy, the "great falling away" talked about. Are you surprised? You shouldn't have been. That is, if your church had actually preached from the bible.

The problem is that this sort of a prophecy is ridiculously easy to make accurately. It's like saying that one day America will no longer be the world's leading superpower. Nothings lasts forever. Just as even the mightiest Empires crumble, religions too fade away. What makes Christianity any more significant in this regard than any of the hundreds upon hundreds of other religions which have fallen out of favor or faded into obscurity in ages past?

I see my self in a similar position to you, MatrixProfit.

I stopped calling myself a christian about 3 months ago and, MAN, was it difficult- for me personally and my friends as it produced an instant rift (Im a teenage so im in a fairly tightly nit social group). apart from now I have been a christian all my life- mainly, I believe, because I was born into it: sunday school, bible-in-schools the lot.

I have a mind for science and philosophy which is what brought me out of the religion. I used to be a fundamentalist but years ago recognised that creationism was rubbish and was very hard to swallow. It appeared no more factual than the creation myths of New Zealand's indigenous Maori people which were obviously born out of not knowing. (I'm a kiwi so I know the myths of these people)

I accepted the idea that the bible wasn't factual but used such stories and muths for thier morals. Seemed reasonable . Through my love of science and the natural world I built a scepticism towards tales of things illogical like the stories in the bible.

Then I heard in a sermon, the preacher/apologist trying to come up with half-assed explanations for the problems between translations so I sought to learn more.

Then I learnt all about the genesis of the bible itself with particular interest to the council of Necea in 326CE (or there abouts) where the orthodox was hand picked by the elite and what didn't make it into the bible was thrown out or burned.

Fact: The bible is a collection of hand-picked teachings.

I was a bit concerned, as it threw my beliefs in to question. And of I found out about the Nostic Gospels found in the 50s in a cave which put more pressure on my beliefs.

It was time to take a step back from the christian beliefs and know for sure what is reasonably Gods actual inspired words and how accurate they still are. Not much apparently.

What i discovered was a treasure trove of very important christian information that would never have been taught in church for the problematic questions it raises. Most interesting was that christianity wasnt much more than a plagiarism of the ancient egyptian religion including the trinity, the soul, hell, messiah, resurection, and what wasnt egyptian was pagan- including the cross of all flipping things.

The fact that there is no real extra-biblical biblical evidence of jesus apart from hearsay made well after the supossed crucifixion. The authors of the gospels arnt matt, mark, luke, or john. And interestingly, that revelation doesn't talk about the end of times which are yet to be but events that happened in the first century envolving the near death and then death of Nero and the fall of Rome. Nero's name in jewish adds up to 666 or 616 depending whether you take the greek->jewish or strait to jewish spelling.
This is really clear when you actually put revelation in context to when it was writen and to whom!

Then i had to say i've had enough! this is all just silly now.

I do not know what God is but I know what he is not, and the bible isn't (at least for the most part) inspired by God.

And to my friends whom turned on me at first for doubting, I said "I am happy to be wrong, bring me the evidence that the bible is the inspired, breathed words of God and I'll convert, back but you havn't brought forthe anything reasonable. But tell me, are you willing to say that you might be wrong like I did?"

And I pose the question to most of you, also. Are you willing to accept the fact that you might just be wrong?!

Are you willing to examine your beliefs with reason, logic and scrutiny?

I don't know what the TRUTH is, but I'm asking all the questions. I havn't yet produced new spiritual beliefs yet.

It doesn’t matter if Christianity implodes or not, the seeds of religions have been embedded in the mind of billions of humans.
The great part of humanity denied being religious when actually they cry for they dead, mourn for they losses, indulge they misery, claim liberation of the narrow-mind, rejoice for other that fails, praise the stronger vs the weaker for fear of governments tribulation.
Before any new concept can be showed or educated about our self, we will need to invite new words to define all what is in existence (real or factitious) because the core of the words that relate to religions and spirituality have been corrupted to an extend that we have now no more bases to locate what is divine in us. We have been submerged by the religious concept of existence where duality is above all veneered like a God.

Kacou.

reply to post by kacou


what the hell are you talking about?!

reply to post by Good Wolf


In short we are all religious; Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, atheist, agnostic, materialists, believers or not.
The mechanism of religions has embedded all structure of our life that now it impossible for someone to say that he or she think outside this religious box.
As I wrote previously, we need to undo every single aspect of our life, notion about love, family, death, pain, nation, earth…and so on, before we can claim to be an “individual “.
So fare few have manage this style of life, the best know is Jesus, but he was betrayal by all the apostles…yes not only Judas but all of them…but this is another story.

Kacou.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

We are able to grasp nuggets of what the real truth is. Does he have to do away with religion to get everyone's attention? Probably. But the real question is; does he care? I believe he will let a lot of people fall by the wayside.

Well, for me it's a moot question because I no longer subscribe to the notion of an "Other" being (God) who exists independently of us and creation. I subscribe more to some of the eastern concepts and to Jung's "ground of being" from which all potentiality arises. My own research into quantum physics and near death experiences also confirms this for me.

From this new perspective, we are approaching it all wrong because we are waiting for something "outside of ourselves" to come in and rescue us. Meanwhile, we are destroying the planet and ourselves because of this mistaken notion. I am 53 years old and I gave every opportunity in the world (30 years worth) for some "personal" loving God to reveal himself (I took the bible at it's word this would happen) and the litmus test failed every time.

Just one honest look at nature with all of its predation, domination, and "survival of the fittest" should lay to rest any notion of a predetermined "loving" creator. From this perspective of a creator, the same God who created us also created viruses to destroy us! For eons before man appeared, nature has been rife with tooth, claws, fangs, poisions, venoms, barbs, and thorns.

We do have the potential to invoke the divine within ourselves and creation and "bias" it towards love but this is totally our choice and we are failing miserably with our antiquated beliefs. God as the ground of being is not immoral but he is "amoral." It is us who decide how potentiality will be shaped. God is the water tower (potential) and we are the firemen with the hose - who can use the potential to take loving/saving action (or not).

[edit on 27-8-2008 by whatsup]

[edit on 27-8-2008 by whatsup]

reply to post by Good Wolf


Very good - I starred you! And you are a teenager? Bravo!!

You are to be admired for all of your research and bravado for stepping outside the box.

What i discovered was a treasure trove of very important christian information that would never have been taught in church for the problematic questions it raises. Most interesting was that christianity wasnt much more than a plagiarism of the ancient egyptian religion including the trinity, the soul, hell, messiah, resurection, and what wasnt egyptian was pagan- including the cross of all flipping things.

Yes, we totally agree. The threads I have done try to reflect that.

I believe in a God - Jah because I have been given too much evidence of him and have developed a relationship with him. But now it is more real because I do not have the middle man to interfere and to tell me how to have a relationship with him.

One of the things that I have always detested is being misunderstood. Especially when I was young. To continually be misunderstood or to be categorized into something that has no relation to who one actually is - is a travesty. I apply this same thinking to God.

Thank you so much for your post. U2U me if you ever want to.

Originally posted by whatsup
Well, for me it's a moot question because I no longer subscribe to the notion of an "Other" being (God) who exists independently of us and creation. I subscribe more to some of the eastern concepts and to Jung's "ground of being" from which all potentiality arises. My own research into quantum physics and near death experiences also confirms this for me.

I can see we have virtually the same view. [smile]

From this new perspective, we are approaching it all wrong because we are waiting for something "outside of ourselves" to come in and rescue us. Meanwhile, we are destroying the planet and ourselves because of this mistaken notion. I am 53 years old and I gave every opportunity in the world (30 years worth) for some "personal" loving God to reveal himself (I took the bible at it's word this would happen) and the litmus test failed every time.

Yes. Most look for a God-out-there to pour energy into them. My view is that we are God, and we pour energy outward into the Universe. And if we look, we can see this. We do not have "dominion" over the world, but rather, being capable of seeing as much as we can, we are (should be) the stewards of what we observe.

Just one honest look at nature with all of its predation, domination, and "survival of the fittest" should lay to rest any notion of a predetermined "loving" creator. From this perspective of a creator, the same God who created us also created viruses to destroy us! For eons before man appeared, nature has been rife with tooth, claws, fangs, poisions, venoms, barbs, and thorns.

Agreed. (Though I go so far as to suggest that we are the creator...)

We do have the potential to invoke the divine within ourselves and creation and "bias" it towards love but this is totally our choice and we are failing miserably with our antiquated beliefs. God as the ground of being is not immoral but he is "amoral." It is us who decide how potentiality will be shaped. God is the water tower (potential) and we are the firemen with the hose - who can use the potential to take loving/saving action (or not).

Oooo! I like that analogy! Yes, we pour forth the energy from the well-spring within. [smile]

reply to post by kacou

The mechanism of religions has embedded all structure of our life that now it impossible for someone to say that he or she think outside this religious box.

Is this based on personal opinion or are you referencing something? Or do you mean a god box? Or the inundation from religious principles and doctrine? There is some truth to what you say. But where does it come from? Perhaps it was instilled in us from the beginning? Another words, Godly conscience that has gone awry due to the influence of man?

Is it all wrong? Or are there elements that could be divine and even ordained (from the big guy)? Where does conscience fit in? Where did it originate?

As I wrote previously, we need to undo every single aspect of our life, notion about love, family, death, pain, nation, earth…and so on, before we can claim to be an “individual “.
So fare few have manage this style of life, the best know is Jesus, but he was betrayal by all the apostles…yes not only Judas but all of them…but this is another story.

As far as the definition of "individual" are you not speaking of anti-dependence? In order to apply that thinking one would have to unfortunately go numb. This is sociopath behavior, or one that is clinically depressed!

Jesus did care and at times show sadness towards man and an attachment. But perhaps you are speaking of a non-codependent stance. It is possible to achieve that. I had the codependent kicked out of me by God, and much professional help. But on the earthly whole, it does seem to be an insurmountable task, I would agree!

But Jesus did try, didn't he? Now there is the thought that; Judas perhaps was not the evil one that has been so taught. Is it possible that he could have been following Jesus' instructions? And that it literally killed him to do it, because he loved Jesus so much? Would not the suicide be a factor, or a consideration in this orchestrated plan?

Oh, there are so many areas of dispute! But it is fun questioning everything - isn't it?

Thank you much for your post!