Christianity is Imploding!

Dear sir or mam .....you quoted a scripture out of the bible ..
You did not specify if you were quoting it trying to prove that Jesus was the person you thought that particular scripture was talking about ..or someone else ..I didnt get it ...please explain ...

You also took it straight out of context ...and you know you cannot just open a book ..read one verse and understand everything that the chapter was discussing or even have a clue what the book is about ...... ...
It would be like opening this thread ...skipping to page 10 without reading anything in between and saying ..Yeah I get it ok......and then giving your opinion ...based on one post you read at the end ....


Hey I am not wanting an argument ..really ......
I am really just wanting to understand what was meant by your post ..
Could you please be more specific ...
I think you misunderstood that scripture and who it was about ..and what it was about ..............please read above that scripture and below that scripture so you are aware what was being said and why it was and to whom it was being said to or about ....................





[edit on 28-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Im sick of people like you. You downrightly disregard the point someone else is making and then say "but I don't want an argument". But of course you do.

Grow up.


You seem to take much care when regarding very specific scripture and the implications of its meaning. I wonder if your aware that the book is very inconsistent and that a different version will portray a different meaning. Referring to any scripture becomes problematic.

[edit on 8/28/2008 by Good Wolf]

I haven't forgotten you all. I have company in town and will resume my end of the discussion perhaps later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks!

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Im sick of people like you. You downrightly disregard the point someone else is making and then say "but I don't want an argument". But of course you do.

Grow up.
You seem to take much care when regarding very specific scripture and the implications of its meaning. I wonder if your aware that the book is very inconsistent and that a different version will portray a different meaning. Referring to any scripture becomes problematic.

[edit on 8/28/2008 by Good Wolf]

Hi ...
Are you growling at me?lol thought I heard a growl or two in your post .....you sound so gruff....so I take it you dont like my posts or my opinions ...thats fair enough ....
And yes I am aware of versions verses meanings etc etc ..I dont believe I want to really get into that if you dont mind ....

Hey thanks for the nice little talk we had ..


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

I'am still searching and when i come into threads like this i can agree to all and disagree to all and them in confused all over again. Im taking the position of an observer yet still feel like i have to speak up.
This topics can drive one crazy and no doubt being a topic on ATS is one for the very strong minded.
Why am i searching? because sometthing so profound and deep within me keeps saying search for the truth and there the rest will be lifted off your shoulder. Then once you do and think you come to the truth you try to tell others but the blind not see nor do they hear. So your left back at square one trying to differentiate a rotten apple from a perfectly good one.
So now the question arises should i base it on faith or should i base it on wisdom or mere intelligence. They all seem to come to one conclusion.
I come on here and see people quoting scriptures that have nothing to do with the topic. I see religions quarreling with other religions that have nothing to do with the topic.
Then i see athiests quarrelling and spirutalists quarelling and metaphysicists quarelling.
But as a position of an observer i see you all doing the same thing. "Quarelling about what is right and wrong with the world"
Then i have to ask is what prinicples do you trully stand on and what is it that you are trully preaching?

Ive never been very religious myself..raised in a catholic house until i was a teenager then everyone sort of converted to christianity, i could never get into the hype behind storys 1000's of years old..how can i put all my faith in a bunch of stuff that happen so long ago,let alone belive in storys which seem so far feched..ive always believed that storys like these have to hav much deeper meanings then what they immediately display..like heaven and hell, how could such a place exist(i do believe in an afterlife) isnt internal peace in heaven somehow impossible and an internity burnin an suferin in hell but doesnt god love everyone uncoditionally sounds contradictin you know the more i try to sort out and explain the past it all reminds me of the present and whats goin on around me..everything will always be political,im sure when men were livin in caves are runnin thru jungles they had some kind of peckin order... im startin to realize the historical times we live in,the world is in a state of change by the very political system were bein force fed everyday,im sure most of these people will never stop until they get their N.W.O , their V-chips n burn all their Fossils Fuels to carbon wasteful fumes..but this all seems to round full circle to religions all across the world..these people been practicin their cults and secret societys since man was able to articulate...a Religion would be like the best way to hold mind control over large groups of people, i mean peoples morals and fears and beliefs are a large part of any person...i seen this documentary(Zietgiestmovie.com) and they suggest jesus never existed at all and that chritianity is actually a hybrid of an Egptian religion, an call the Bible a "Literaturial Astrological Hybrid" an tell how the bible were storys meant to explain day and night skys(the heavens) an tell the 'Greatest Story Ever Told' the birth and death of the SON of GOD..WAIT the SUN of GOD thats right the SUN from spring to winter...Lets face it the SUN created life he cometh and taketh the Sun is the almighty that rises into the heavens everyday..whose performed more miracles then the Sun...The Sun (if youve ever been to the ocean) every sunrise and every sunset will walk on water.. Religion altogether has to many flaws if im every goin to be religious my religion would hav to include many facts som astrology,archology,theology hell all the 'ology's i would rather know the cold truth then some metaphoric feel good/frightenin storys...think about it the SUN, were would mankind be...watch it zietgiestmovie.com some very convincin facts (if you hadnt seen it)

Ive seen zeitgeist, ive seen esoteric agenda and ive seen ring of circle. All those documentaries were made by people's own researches. Yet they dont display where all these facts can be found, just like in every other belief.
So once again i have to search for it myself and come to my own truth. I can either pick faith, wisdom or intelligence or use all 3.
But where do i start? Wisdom seems to encroach above all for me but the rest is a crutch.

zlots331

Certain "faith based initiatives" are becoming more obvious in our political system and quite frankly, it disturbs me. We are passively giving more and more voice and influence to religious groups who are trying to impose their beliefs on the remainder of a nation who might not share their view. (hmm)
Since when is there a requirement that the President of the United States be Baptist, or Catholic, or Jewish, or believe in God for that matter? Why has there become this ugly display by politicians trying to prove they're more righteous than the other guy and posturing in ways so as not to piss off our own home grown zealots. I see a slippery slope dead ahead. Better grab onto something solid and hold on.

What do you feel the reason for this is? And what would be the solution? Because I see what you are saying, also.

Isn't it amazing that Jesus said to be no part of the world and yet, that is exactly what religion does.

Good Wolf

Yea I was going to but ATS won't let me till I make at least 20 posts. Anywho, I was going to ask you where I could find some good research (preferably internet-at least atm) of the christian myth. Your member page suggests you've done a bit.

Actually, one of the posters recommended earlier in the thread; "Bible Origins in Egypt," plus books by another author: "Tears in Heaven," & "They Lied to Us in Sunday School," "God Save Us From Religion." I have not read them. But here are authors that I recommend; Michael Baigent, Herbert Krosney, Bart D. Ehrman, Hyam Maccoby & many others including books I am going to read by: Bruce M. Metzger.

It helps to read the "Apocrypha," "The Gnostic Gospels," "The Synoptic Gospels," "The Gospel According to Mary," Thomas, etc. Some have recommended, and I own, but have not delved into yet; "The Urantia Book."

Perhaps you have already read some of the above.

Getting back to the original topic. I think it's pretty clear that indeed, christianity is fading. But what i'd like to know is how? Are they dividing into smaller pseudo-religions that inter-conflict or is there just more and more dropping their faith? And what does that mean for the rest of us?

Christianity is becoming more deluded. It is believed that it was possibly Paul who brought in Hellenistic beliefs and made it part of the new Christianity.

But today, to keep up with societies wants - religion has had to use more lures to capture members and so has to use bait to attract people. Of course in the past they were a strong entity where a person (like me) would have been burned at the stake. There was very little division between church and state, as you well know.

To answer your question more directly; I believe in a higher power that is exposing all the lies. So I do not fear, as I think Jah is behind much of the discoveries and exposing of religion and everything else for that matter. IMO the only fear to have, is not going along with the discoveries.

I truly believe that Jah wants to set us free and remove the bondage that man has created.

Lasheic

I do think it's indicative of a god who doesn't have a personal relationship with each and every one of his creations. To assume that he does is nothing more than modern Geocentracism - wherein, perhaps through observations of the natural world we may concede that the Earth is not the center of the universe, but that "WE" - humanity - are the center and focus of God's world. Very presumptuous of us, I think.

How true! Thank you for teaching me a new word - Geocentracism. A narcissistic earth! Or our narcissistic view of the earth.

IMO we are just lemmings. God is available, but we first have to get his attention. I chose my moniker because I think there is a close similarity to Matrix the movie (the symbolic meanings) and heavenly congress. Not a religious definition of heaven. But, then again, these are my views.

pureevil81

he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions.

I am not sure to whom you are speaking to, but since you made me a foe, I assume you are talking to me? Morbid interest in controversial questions?

I search for truth. How many things are taught as truth and are later found to be inaccurate or even a lie? How does something get exposed if there were not one there to expose it? I like this quote from Napoleon;

"History is a fable agreed upon!"

kacou

I like people to react on my post like you did MatrixProphet. This shows great humility and endeavour of searching for the truth. We after all seeking the same thing…The Truth.

Thank you!!

The shadow instigator of the religious institution didn’t care about Jesus, Mohamed, Abraham, Moses or any other teachers. What they care about is the implementation of a structural state of mind where by no one can escape the dogmatic way of a dual reality. It is not by chances that 3 great religions had emerged from a single one, it is a design of intent to numb all the deep core of spirituality in humans.

Absolutely. The machine was set up to control, or run us over!

Jesus had accepted the role of evil in his own spiritual evolution, in which case I strongly believe that he came to challenge the dark forces so to embrace and show they divinity which still reside in them.

Very possibly. I think it was more sinister than that, however. Sinister in a positive way for those who choose to view it that way, and a very negative one for those who have bought into the "machine."

"Some day...you will be wrestling with the great temptation, or trembling under the great sorrow of your life. But the real struggle is here, now...Now it is being decided whether, in the day of your supreme sorrow or temptation, you shall miserably fail or gloriously conquer." - Phillips Brooks

Thank you for your post!

pungen

Welcome!

Take for example someone who is color blind. If all they can see is shades of grey, how can they conceive reds, blues, greens, etc.?

Yes, it's gaining the wisdom to know the difference. I could not take the stands that I do if it weren't for my life experience and knowledge.

UnIr1

Welcome, also!

Let us pull back the drapes wide so we may have a clear view. Peace is the way.

"The use of traveling is to regulate imagination by reality, and instead of thinking how things may be, to see them as they are." - Samuel Johnson

Abramelin Melchizdek

Thank you. I seem to be drawing scholars or scholarily people and I appreciate that!

Plus the SCHOLARS of The King had their misgivings as well. There are numerous example of using colqueal terms that mean different things, rather than the greek terms, direct translations. one example is the term "shambles", to us means disaray, but in the Greek is a "meat market" yet they translated it wrongly. I'll have more, as time goes on...

Yes, Bart Ehrman gave many examples of the discrepancies that he and other Bible scholars found. I am not a scholar but am a sponge for new or unorthodox information. Weighing it with; "does it feel right," (spiritually) and I am comfortable.

reply to post by meadowfairy


I saw the Zietgeist move too. I think it's a very important movie that all religious/political fanatics need to see.

But I am impressionable so I identified that I need to know the exact details and parallels for myself. I need to be informed and have expertise in the matters raised in the movie. I discovered that indeed the the movie really lack sources and citings but i took time to find the reality for myself. For instance, it claimed that there is no evidence of the Jesus Christ of the bible: I found this document [nobeliefs.com...] which is fairly conclusive. But I also found this [nobeliefs.com...] which goes to explaining how the fictional character isn't really that great of a guy in the first place. I also found that there are a lot of books out on the "Solar Deity". I've actually waiting on a few to arrive in the post.

So before you say that zeitgiest is a load of crap, make sure you have a good grasp on the viability of those claims.

[edit on 8/29/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 8/29/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by meadowfairy

Why am i searching? because sometthing so profound and deep within me keeps saying search for the truth and there the rest will be lifted off your shoulder. Then once you do and think you come to the truth you try to tell others but the blind not see nor do they hear. So your left back at square one trying to differentiate a rotten apple from a perfectly good one.
So now the question arises should i base it on faith or should i base it on wisdom or mere intelligence.

You will find your way. I use this: it looks good, it sounds good, but does it feel right? Or; "right, wrong or indifferent, this is how I feel!"

Let go of everyone else and follow your star. Most people are wrong...I think. I no longer look for approval, I look for truth. Many people - I have had to let go. Including a whole religion! I am a realist and no longer look for fairy dust (except occasionally :lol.

Nor-Cal

Yes, I saw Zeitgeist. Take what you want and leave the rest. I have no problem between the correlation of Egypt and Christ. It is all part of the "Play," or contest, I think!

meadowfairy

But where do i start? Wisdom seems to encroach above all for me but the rest is a crutch.

Personally, I prayed for wisdom. I don't mean a ritualistic praying, but just asking Jah for more knowledge to be revealed to me, and for teachers to be put into my life.


Thank you everyone for your great posts! I appreciate them and am grateful for your insight and wisdom. Keep it comin!

Hey MatrixProphet, 4 months ago when I was still christian, I had a grievance with the church and I had no problem with voicing it. I went to my church's partor's office and I said to him, "I'm having a problem with this church and the general christian movement. Jesus said "If you hold me up I will draw all me unto me" as if 'truth' and 'freedom' (the idea I had of JC's purpose) is the ultimate attractive force on man. But we supposedly hold up Jesus in this town and the world does not come, in fact only a few come. This tells me that we are not holding up the real Jesus. And that this is all a waste of time. In reading books of Paul, it talked about church in the form of small groups going around peoples homes and just being in communion with these people, but today we we don't do that, we just glorify the traditions of over-baked symbolic rituals and lengthy prayers. I can't help but think this is all a waste of time!" He did his best to reassure me of the goodness of church but it was not any good. That's when I stopped going to church, I was convinced I was wasting time.

Another reason I left was because I had a handful of friends at church who would be annoyed or even angry that I would be so tenacious as to leave. I wasn't going to stay because it would appease my friends, it was more important that I find where I belong and go on a personal hunt for the truth.

I also noticed while in his office, his bookcase appeared to have 200 or so books. I noticed that about 2/3rds were on coping with suffering and stress and loss. I though, those aren't the messages that Jesus taught.

What brought you out of the church?


On another note, I found this great article written in fact by a rev. called "The Beast of Revelation Identified"

www.forerunner.com...

I throw it at any fanatic who cames at me with the "The antichrist is coming!" garbage.

[edit on 8/29/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

Good Wolf

Yea I was going to but ATS won't let me till I make at least 20 posts. Anywho, I was going to ask you where I could find some good research (preferably internet-at least atm) of the christian myth. Your member page suggests you've done a bit.

Actually, one of the posters recommended earlier in the thread; "Bible Origins in Egypt," plus books by another author: "Tears in Heaven," & "They Lied to Us in Sunday School," "God Save Us From Religion." I have not read them. But here are authors that I recommend; Michael Baigent, Herbert Krosney, Bart D. Ehrman, Hyam Maccoby & many others including books I am going to read by: Bruce M. Metzger.

It helps to read the "Apocrypha," "The Gnostic Gospels," "The Synoptic Gospels," "The Gospel According to Mary," Thomas, etc. Some have recommended, and I own, but have not delved into yet; "The Urantia Book."

Perhaps you have already read some of the above.

I can't find "Bible Origins in Egypt"

I have some awesome research sites for ALL things ...
Everything on every text on religions ofthe world and a whole bunch of other stuff


Internet Ancient History Source Book
www.fordham.edu...

All sacred books of any kind
www.sacred-texts.com...

Internet Public Library (Lots of different things to read) a little of everything even scientific
www.ipl.org...

Hebrew Lexicon
www.studylight.org...

This next link has everything anyone could dream of reading
The Holy Bible: Various translations of the Bible. There are currently only English translations posted.

Christian Works of the Ages: Many volumes by Christians from the early church up to the present day. Written from different backgrounds, denominations and walks of life.

Heretics: Works by people that have deviated from historic orthodox Christianity. Covering the Latter Day Saints, Jehovah Witnesses, Swedenborg, etc..

Non-Christian Religions and Philosophies: Writings pertaining to groups that are outside the Christian tradition.

History: Historical books that do not contain religious themes.

Legends and Fairy Tales: While not necessarily religious in nature, many of the old legends give insight in to the lives and beliefs of the people during the time they were written.

Reference: Old Encyclopedias, etc.

www.thedcl.org...

Gnostic Stuff
www.gnosis.org...

This has Alot of reading sources for alot of Ancient texts
ccat.sas.upenn.edu...

I have more if this dont do ya let me know ...



[edit on 29-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 29-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Good Wolf


What does your family think of you leaving church?

I could not take the cover-ups and the lack of love. I knew all of the "family secrets." The hypocrisy was great and the self-righteousness. Plus, one loses their identity and becomes part of the borg where independent thinking is considered "worldly." All groups want you to keep up the status quo. If you rock the boat it makes everyone uncomfortable. I had too many questions and too many years of inadequate answers.

Side-bar; Nero sure reminds one of - Caligula!

Quote [I have had to let go. Including a whole religion! I am a realist and no longer look for fairy dust (except occasionally :]

Yes that sounds familiar .
I have had to question a preacher and do three days of bible study to show where his church was a cult .Imagine how scary that was for me .And I had not had as much bible study then as I do now.The preacher set up a panel for me to ask my questions in front of and invited all the church members to it as well.
The questions I asked they could not answer (can you believe that ) Then they just said ok I think we are through now .Then I left and they told the congregation to stay away from me I was an anti christian and was dangerous (they thought I would lead their flock out from under their wings) and I didnt want no flock .I am not a preacher,and am just a very simple almost naive type who does not purposely cause trouble and am not as bold as the Lord thinks I am LOL (like having me be the one to break those peoples bubbles)
Anyway the church peoples came and told me what the preacher said ,they were not allowed to go to my house anymore (they loved me ) and they would be anathema if they did .
I said wow you got to be kidding me right >
It was a cult and many church peoples actually left when they heard the truth at that panel thing .Not sure how familiar yall are with cults ,this one was a United Pentecostal ,no shaving,no wearing jeans,not TV no movies no nothing..but they also coersed old people to sign over all their assets to the church and even make them get a legal will all signed sealed and delivered to the preacher (it needs to grow they said and needs money to make that happen)
anyway that was a scary ordeal for me .But I had so many nagging feelings,questions about what they taught ,how they interpreted the bible etc etc ..We spent about 6 months there and I loved them people and they acted like they cared about me ..boy did they turn on me quick just for asking a few very serious real questions like WHY this why that etc ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


Good for you! Thank you for all of this research. We can all benefit from it.


Good Wolf

Perhaps the poster will come back on and give us the authors name of that book.

reply to post by Simplynoone

The preacher set up a panel for me to ask my questions in front of and invited all the church members to it as well.

Boy, did you read my post a few pages back, discussing almost the same thing? At 17 in front of some religious leaders defending my beliefs? Interesting similarity.

We find out very quickly where love exists and where it is false. Personally I am proud of anyone, especially young ones, standing up for their conscience, going against the grain. It is not easy, no one said it would be, but the payoff is wonderful.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

What does your family think of you leaving church?

Well Dad was already a "radical" who questioned and challenged his was to being kicked out of church (I just know the church must think he brain washed me, when I just inherited the truth seeking nature) so he was happy about it.

Mum wasn't so pleased. She's kind of a traditional christian who doesn't think to think deeply on such important topics. Day to day matters consume almost all of her thoughts I think.

My brother has never been a christian so doesnt care.

I could not take the cover-ups and the lack of love. I knew all of the "family secrets." The hypocrisy was great and the self-righteousness. Plus, one loses their identity and becomes part of the borg where independent thinking is considered "worldly." All groups want you to keep up the status quo. If you rock the boat it makes everyone uncomfortable. I had too many questions and too many years of inadequate answers.

Yea I know what you mean. I have one particularly indoctrinated, institutionalised friend who it challenged after I left church.
Matt 4:4 says "Man does not live on bread and water alone but on the word of god". I said that the bible was quite corrupt in it's age as the "But on the word of god" had been removed. He was shocked and assured me that if they removed it, there must be a good reason for it.

I also pointed out Mat 5:48

Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus was telling us as an imperative to be perfect like God so it must be in our potential.
He told me it was like when our teachers would tell us to aim for excellence to ensure achieved. "so he insists we do something we are unable to do? Is Jesus a liar? Does he know we are doomed to fail? I'm afraid that is a coppout, man." I said.

He didn't much like me for it, I shook his cage a bit much.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Good Wolf

Perhaps the poster will come back on and give us the authors name of that book.

HA! I found something. home.austarnet.com.au...

[edit on 8/30/2008 by Good Wolf]

Personally I think people should avoid any organized religion these days because they are just about all apostate and some even cultic in my opinion ...I mean sure you can still find some little humble preacher in the outskirts of town somewhere in some little building that may still be a real teacher of truth ...but they are far and few in between ..
We really are in the days the Lord said we would be into someday ..
Where there is truly a famine in the land for the word of God ..
I always tell people please please read the word yourself ...find the Lord on your own ..if you seek him you will find him ...draw nigh to him and he will draw nigh to you ....the fellowship is what I miss the most ..but the word says where any two or more are gathered in my name there am I in the midst ...So really we are all in church right now everytime we discuss the Lord thats fellowshipping ... ....