Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

I really really want to go there to check it out myself. Maybe ATS expedition or something... Our people could probably mount a huge one at that if interested people get involved.

If anyone does a field trip there, let us know, we might join you!

news.bbc.co.uk...

Found this article (link above), where scientists have found a 28,000 year old phallus in a mountain cave in SW Germany!

Slightly amusing, and not particularly relevant to the Untersberg, but just goes to show that even 28000 years ago, people in Germany were living in caves within the mountains.

With so many caves, and so many yet to be properly explored, i expect there is a wealth of finds to be had from the Untersberg, both from thousands of years ago and more recently. Back in the 1200's, we have already discussed that the Templars built a shrine to Isais in a cave in the Untersberg. Surprising that there is no sign of this to be found.

And while i'm here, just another thought......so the Templars built a shrine, and then a second one, to the goddess Isais on the Ettenberg, which stands in front of the Untersberg, between Berchtesgaden and Markt Schellenberg. If you look at the mountain from this location, you get a clear view of the Mittagsscharte - the "V" in the ridge of the mountain, through which the sun shines, and gave the mountain one of it's pseudonyms.

Now think of the Last Supper by Leonardo Da Vinci. People say (and not just in the Davinci Code), that the "V" created by Jesus and the man (or woman....?) next to him is a sign of the sacred feminine, the worship of Mary (either the virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene, i'm not sure). This is quite similar to the "V" in the mountain. So did the Templars locate at the Untersberg for this reason? (They were apparently told to go here by Isais). Add to this, the fact that there are various schools of thought as to what constitutes the Holy Grail - a chalice of precious metal? Wood? Or.....a STONE??? (Grail comes from the ancient persian-arabic word "Ghral"meaning Holy Stone). Not just a stone, but perhaps a black and purple stone/crystal? (Die Herren von Schwartzen Stein......The Lords of the Black Stone...the sect formed by the Templars....the true meaning of "SS"?). Also:

www.alpenfestung.com...
In Hitlers Monologe aus dem FHQ vom 02.02.1942 erfahren wir dass Hitler den Berghof auch als "Gralsburg" bezeichnet. Auch von Himmler wird nachgesagt das er die Wewelsburg als Gralsburg bezeichnete.

Translation: In Hitlers monologue from the Fuhrer Headquarters on 2 Feb 1942, we learn that Hitler also referred to the Berghof as "Gralsburg". Also, according to Himmler, he referred to Wewelsberg as "Gralsburg"

Without a doubt, there is a strong link between the Templars, the Holy Grail, and Hitler (who was searching for it). Add to that some strange movements of an SS convoy from Berchtesgaden just before it was overrun by the Allies in 1945:

www.mail-archive.com...@listserv.aol.com/msg05277.html

"When the convoy arrived at the foot of the Zillertal Mountain Pass, a small
group of select officers took possession of a number of heavy lead sealed
boxes. Following a brief ceremony by torchlight they took the path leading to the Schleigeiss Glacier at the foot of the 9,000 foot high Hochfeiler
mountain. They buried the boxes in a ledge of snow at the edge of a precipice.
No one knows what the boxes contained.
Some say they protect the Grail of Montsegur. Others believe that it is here that the Treasures of Jerusalem will be found."

Hiltler and Himmler had had Otto Rahn looking for the Grail, etc, up until his mysterious death in 1939 (on a mountain not too far away....), and then the man described as "The Most Dangerous Man in Germany" after that, a commando called Skorzeny.

Did they find something? (if you research this, there is anecdotal evidence to say they did).Was it at some point in Berchtesgaden/Wewelsberg? Was it moved in a hurry one night in April 1945, to be buried in Austria? Was it recovered after the war....or is it still there?

Originally posted by BlueOrb
Slightly amusing, and not particularly relevant to the Untersberg, but just goes to show that even 28000 years ago, people in Germany were living in caves within the mountains.

Yes, it shows that cavemen lived in caves, wasn't that to be expected?

In Europe there are many places where people lived in caves or in relatively large houses carved on the rock of some mountains or cliffs, there is a book freely available on the Project Gutenberg site, called Castles and Cave Dwellings of Europe that has several examples of that, and in some places people still live in houses like that.

Add to this, the fact that there are various schools of thought as to what constitutes the Holy Grail - a chalice of precious metal? Wood? Or.....a STONE??? (Grail comes from the ancient persian-arabic word "Ghral"meaning Holy Stone).

Really? Where did you get those definitions from?
As far as I know, grail comes from graal, and it means "cup" or "flat dish", here in Portugal we still use gral with the meaning of mortar, a cup or small bowl to mix things.

reply to post by ArMaP


Well, one "source" is the translation that i referred to immediately after asking "A STONE?", i.e the translation of the word "Ghral" from ancient persian-arabic.

There are many sites on the web that make reference to the Grail perhaps being a stone. For example www.philipcoppens.com...

Google "holy grail stone" or similar for examples. The truth is, no-one knows for sure what the Holy Grail is.

Yes, perhaps the normal assumption is that it either the cup that Jesus drank from at the last supper, or alternatively a vessel that was used to collect his blood after he was stabbed on the cross. Other theories, is that the Holy Grail is the bloodline of Jesus, him having had at least one child with Mary Magdalene, or even that it represents the womb of the virgin Mary, that carried him.

I'm not suggesting the Grail is without question a stone, just offering the possiblility, and suggesting links to other areas which may (or may not) support this.

causa-nostra.com...

This site (In German), shows the supposed location of the two Temples to Isais, built at the foot of the Untersberg by the Templars in the 13th Century.






After comparing the photos with the area around Markt Schellenberg, the Google Earth Coordinates of this chapel are:

Latitude 47 deg 41' 43.52" N
Longitude 13 deg 2' 32.58" E

The site also shows an existing retaing wall from the original Temple site, but this is a little harder to locate on Google Earth. If you look at this area with the 3D landscape on, you can get a good idea of the view of the Untersberg from this location. The site of the second Temple is allegedly where Isais appeared to the Templars most often, either at dawn or at sunset.

Very interesting thread.
Found it yesterday and read the whole thing.
The 2nd "monster"-thread on ATS that captured me and I just had to read entirely, the first one being undo's Stargate thread.
BTW, the 2 subjects are IMHO closely related.

Since I don`t live that far away I'm very interested in visiting this place myself, hope this summer it`ll be possible.

Regarding the 3 people that disappeared and were later found in Egypt.
It`s quite possible to cross the border between Slovenia and Austria by foot but the whole story is highly unlikely.
How would you travel through whole (then) Yugoslavia without anything?

well they do say there are places in this world that can lead to places of beauty and maybe at the bottom of the cave system is a place as such.

I`d like to add a Slovenian legend that surrounds the Peca mountain, the legend of Kralj (King) Matjaž, that I almost forgot about.
It lies right on the border of Slovenia and Austria.
Map: Peca - google maps







The Wikipedia entry sums it up.

Kralj Matjaž is a legendary hero in Slovenia, possibly based on a real life king Matthias Corvinus of Hungary. The legend says that he is asleep under the mountain Peca in the Alps. When his beard grows nine times around the stone table, he shall awake and bring a golden era to Slovenes.

King Matjaž was a good king. Everyone that came was welcome and King Matjaž was ready to help. He also gave to coin his money. In his time there were gold times for Carinthia. But other kings were very envious of his power so they united their armies against him. With only a hundred of his surviving soldiers he had to hide in a cave that opened under Peca. The cave hid them from the enemies. In the cave Matjaž sat at a table, the others around him and they fell asleep. The legend says that when his beard has grown nine times around the table he will wake up. At the same time a linden tree will grow in front of his cave in middle of the winter. From midnight till one in the morning it will blossom then it will wither. At this time King Matjaž will come out of his cave and defeat all his enemies, banish away injustice and again reign the Slovenes. This is how there will again be golden times in Carinthia.

I`d like to add here that according to the legend it is possible to see Kralj Matjaž if you are a chosen one. According to the legend a blacksmith one day went searching for some suitable wood for his hammers around the mountain. He found a big tree which was a passage into the mountain where he saw the king and his men sleeping. The legend says that the tree is especially visible "on the last day of the old year" - 31. december.

Also there are numerous stories about dwarfes, the forrest man, vicious women, etc.
I will dig up the stories, will take some time ...

Don`t know if there are some magnetic anomalies there, will look around the net.

Interstingly, this is the same legend that surrounds the Untersberg, except the name of the "sleeping" saviour of the people is different. The details are the same - the beard growing round the table, the men with him, waking up and bringing renewed hope to the people. Even the legend of a tree. In the Untersberg legend, it is Kaiser Karl, or Charlemagne. I believe it's quite common. for similar legends to develop. We discussed this earlier in the thread.

Interesting to see the shape of the mountain too....not dissimilar to the Untersberg. Do you know if it is a geomagnetic "hotspot"?

This is what i love. I love mysteries and amazing things like this. Its amazing. It gives me something to think about and try to figure out but now i would really like to visit that mountain to see what happens..lol

reply to post by Skyfloating


There are places like that in Scotland.. you go in and never come out
something strange is going on in the mountains,caverns and lakes of the world.. i think many are interconnected like the Lochs of Scotland

also some places here in England are the same although i never go near them. i read that the native reptilians of the world live in deep areas of human mines hidden behind the rock below the ground.. we have about 60 miles worth of mine tunnels running beneath my house and the surrounding area...

reply to post by BlueOrb


I think i have found the Holy Grail. I likely won't put up a thread on it....but my recent research has led me down the path of the philosophers and alchemy.

The "Holy Grail" is referencing "The Great Work" (the transmuting of lead to Gold, both physically and metaphorically). For a great portion of the preparing of the Philosophers Elixer, the material is red (representing the Earthly Mercury often referred to in alchemy).

Perhaps i am wrong...but this seems to be the secret the Knight Templar found and secured. Consider that Soloman's temple was supposed to have been literally covered in gold and gems, and the legend is that he made them himself. Consider also the massive wealth that the Templars were able to amass in a relatively short time.

Consider, also, that the great European philosophers of the middle ages all claimed to have gotten their knowledge from an Arabian source. The same place the Knights Templars are rumored to have discovered "something", which has always been assumed to be the Holy Grail.

I am barely scratching the surface of this line of study, but it seems wholly logical. I know, i hear some of you groaning. Keep in mind, to understand the ancient words, we have to understand the ancient mindset.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

[edit on 3-8-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


No groaning from me! I think to approach the issue of the Holy Grail with a closed mind, when no-one for sure knows just what it refers to, is a mistake. I agree with your line of thinking, in that i reckon that the Holy Grail is more about what is derived from it's possession, rather than what it actually is. I am sure that if it was an artifact of some sort that was in some way connected to the last days of Jesus (if you even believe the whole Jesus thing), then it serves no purpose to withold it from common knowledge and view, regardless of which organisation is in possession of it.
Let's face it - whether it is real or a fake, the Shroud of Turin was held up to be the burial cloth of Jesus to the whole world. Why would someone not do the same with a cup, plate, or whatever?

I also agree with your thoughts regarding the Templars and wealth. It is well documented that they started out as a kind of bank, lending money to various parties, and expanded from there. Wealth was apparently central to their operations.

I also read somewhere (i think i posted this far earlier in the thread), that when they were finally driven out of France, some went East ober the mountains, and settled in an area that was eventually formed into Switzerland. I believe that many of the flags of the Cantons of Switzerland feature Templar/heraldic imagery. It would also fit in with the way Switzerland has grown into the world centre for finance, gold, etc, and their sercretive nature when it comes to matters financial.

Stick with the research. I would be interested to see what you find.

By the way....if you turn up anything in the United Arab Emirates that needs looking into, give me a shout!



[edit on 4-8-2009 by BlueOrb]

I don't know about the UAE in particular....


....but there is a book that was rumored to have been obtained by one of the medievel sages in the Arab lands. I think it was Syria, near Damascus (the actual town, some think, is a cipher since they cannot locate it....i will have to look up the name later as i cannot remember it now).

The book was called "M". That is all i got. Think you might be able to find it?

(Grail comes from the ancient persian-arabic word "Ghral"meaning Holy Stone).

I thought it came from sang réal, medieval French for "royal blood"?

Anyway, an interesting post.





[edit on 4-8-2009 by Vanitas]

Consider, also, that the great European philosophers of the middle ages all claimed to have gotten their knowledge from an Arabian source.

That was sort of the "fashion" then (oh yes, intellectuals follow fashions, too - big time! ).

But the main reason the Arabic/Muslim literary culture was so popular in certain periods of the so-called Middle Ages was the fact that not only they had incredible public libraries, but Aristotle's works - the originals having been lost - were relayed to the West exclusively through the work of Arab translators.






[edit on 4-8-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Vanitas
But the main reason the Arabic/Muslim literary culture was so popular in certain periods of the so-called Middle Ages was the fact that not only they had incredible public libraries, but Aristotle's works - the originals having been lost - were relayed to the West exclusively through the work of Arab translators.

And the fact that they really had made many important studies in medicine, agriculture and engineering, besides having great writers and poets.

reply to post by ArMaP


(Slightly OT)

Well, yes, of course (for example, they had itinerant medical services and, allegedly, special psychiatric units back in the year 1000 A.D.; another seminal import is the pointed arch, a prominent feature of Gothic architecture, which can be observed on the Nilometer in Cairo as early as the 9th century) - but I emphasised I was talking about the literary culture. ;-)

It was a fascinating culture; and it's equally fascinating that, as all great (and not-so-great) cultures, it, too, had a limited span of flourishment and development before descending into relative obscurity. That's the fate of every culture.

But that's a different story.









[edit on 4-8-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


Well...it was the fashion for two main reasons:

1. Europe was shrouded in superstition and ignorance.

2. The "source" of the esoteric knowledge was Arabian in origin, as it emdodied the legacy of the Rama and Egyptian empire. It is where Aristotle, Paracelcus, Plato, and Pythagoreas gained their knowledge, and it is where the Thrice Great Hermes was from.

The Arab lands were still enjoying somewhat of a "golden age" (that had left Europe), aided primarily by the shift of power from the western empire to the eastern empire.