Is Atlantis a metaphor for a great civilzation lost in a superstorm?

Many people have heard the myth about Atlantis. But how many believe it?
Lost ruins have been found across the world that defy understanding. There's that huge mound off Japan, and many other man-made structures.
Like a week ago, I read the book, The Coming Global Superstorm. It said that once every couple thousand years a huge storm froze over much of the world , when the North Atlantic drift shuts down. Could these ruins be the remains of a great civilization destroyed in one of these storms?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Ranger23]

Apparently round there, there is a plate that slipped a 100m, about 5000 years ago.......

Originally posted by Ranger23
Could these ruins be the remains of a great civilization destroyed in one of these storms?

If Atlantis existed at all, and wasn't just some allegory or fictional story Plato picked up fourth hand from the Egyptians, it was possibly a relatively small but well-organized civilization that popped up after the last Ice Age but was unfortunately destroyed by a global catastrophe (perhaps a comet or meteorite impact) that some climatologists these days think may have caused the end of the Younger Dryas:

www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...

If we eventually find any ruins or artifacts (very difficult after all this time), they'll likely be underwater in the general area of the Azores Plateau located along the Mid-Altantic Ridge:

Originally posted by Ranger23
There's that huge mound off Japan, and many other man-made structures.

"That huge mound..." is a natural formation. Please relate any "other man-made structures..." that have been considered to "defy understanding."

AFAIK, none exist.

Harte

reply to post by Ranger23


No, because 'The Coming Global Superstorm' (on which the film 'The Day After Tomorrow' was based) is fiction. The authors completely misunderstand basic atmospheric physics and ignore all evidence on the subject. Their proposed shut-down of the gulf stream would, for example, based on the last time it happened, result in the average temperature in Europe falling by between 1c and 2c. Which is roughly what it's risen by in the past 30 years.

So worse case scenario: a 1970s climate ..... !

As for Atlantis, Atlantis was specifically a bronze age culture that was defeated in battle by a Greek bronze age culture 6,000 years before the start of the bronze age. Anything else is not Atlantis. And since there is no evidence anywhere on the planet - let alone Europe - of a bronze age culture existing 6,000 years before the start of the bronze age there is no evidence for the existence of Atlantis. QED.

reply to post by Ranger23


Atlantis is most probably Crete. A cataclysmic volcanic explosion destroyed a civilization of Minoan peoples. Among the items found is artwork and a flush toilet system. Plato was probably wrong or took a liberty when he described where Atlantis was.

I think Crete was added into other lost cities and Plato made it into a entertaining tale. He may also have been reporting an Egyptian made myth.

If it existed at all it will probably be found to have been a much smaller place than Plato stated.

Originally posted by Hanslune
If it existed at all it will probably be found to have been a much smaller place than Plato stated.

Maybe Platos grandsons sand castle was washed away and that's where he got the idea

But yeah, the superstorm is fiction. And I do think we should have found some sort of evidence of such an event, or more stories. My beliefs havent changed much lately: Atlantis is Crete, Atlantis is fiction or Atlantis is a story that Plato got from the Egyptians/some other civilization that's based on stories from the Pheonicians which was designed to keep people away from the ocean so they could control trade (here be impassable sea!).

[edit on 22-8-2008 by merka]

reply to post by merka


Howdy Merka

Humans are great at making stuff up, our imaginations are limitless and so is our ability to believe in such stuff (think about the many religions we've come up with). If ancient Athens was like most of the world there would have been tons of myths, legends and stories floating around. Plato probably was immersed in those and took the idea as a way to describe a wonderful lost place. People today as then like mysteries. Atlantis is a wonderful mystery.

The lack of evidence is telling. We do know how much stuff a real civilization leaves behind. When I was fourteen and starting to read about fringe stuff (starting with Aku Aku by Heyerdahl) I read about Atlantis and pondered about why there were no remains on the islands of the Azores.

In the last decades I've seen the concept of Atlantis begin to shift away from a real human civilization on earth to it being out in space, in different dimensions, etc. That lack of evidence is damning.

While I don't believe we are going to find Atlantis anytime soon, I do believe that a number of coastal areas could be explored for evidence of any type of societies that could have existed in the time of the last glacial maximum (c. 16000 BCE?).

With the lower sea levels at that period, the earth's geography is markedly different from the current view of the world. You'll notice that one of the most noticeable changes is Australia being attached to New Guinea as a single land mass with no strait between them, as well as the land bridge crossing the Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska. Sri Lanka would have been attached to mainland India and the English Channel would have been a dry area to be crossed overland as well. The Persian Gulf would have been a dry plain as well.

These are all areas that may hold some of the answers to the flood myths that have sprung up globally.

Keep in mind that if (and I stress if) a near total melting of the glaciers took place, our own world could face similar changes, with our own "normal" coastlines disappearing in favor of this speculative map. If you view this map and consider the current world areas that would be underwater, you can see how much of our own world would be just as lost as the Last Glacial Maximum map above in comparison to our own modern world. How would survivors of such a change view that change if much of society is removed in the process? I would hazard a guess that some stories would eventually arise that speak of London or Miami in the same mythical tone ancient tales of Atlantis have taken on if civilization takes a step backward in the process.

The two maps I've referenced come from this site and appear to be in line with other maps I've seen in books on the subject. The one that comes to mind first for me is Graham Hancock's Underworld. He has his detractors of course, but the idea of exploring these areas that were once dry land and are now submerged does appear to have merit. I'm not saying that we'll find any lost metropolis such as Atlantis, but these areas could have vital clues to humanity's development and possibly provide us information on coastal societies that had to be abandoned as the seas swallowed them up once the Ice Age ended. Perhaps this change wouldn't be so swift as the tale of Atlantis's demise, but I believe it could be relevant in helping explain some of the legends of floods that exist worldwide.

Those areas are being explored, slowly. Unfortunately the costs for underwater archaeology are staggering, depending on depth and weather patterns they are from 25-50 times more expensive. It will be awhile before all of those areas are surveyed completely. That said, no known society stays only on the coastal strip during all stages of its development. Also when areas flood the inhabitants, if not wiped out move up and onwards.

In the North sea dredging has produced artifacts of the life that was there before the area was flooded. This has also occured in a few selected other areas.

Currents and tides tend to wash things up on beaches.

The fact remains that nothing of these civilization(s) have come to light. If Plato's story was right we'd find traces of what he stated.

We may find smaller regional cultures in the future but something the size of Atlantis, in the time frame given by Plato, is very remote. (IMHO)

reply to post by Hanslune


I think you're right about Plato being wrong. Atlantis was not nearly as big as he wrote that it was, and it wasn't so completely advanced either. The Egyptians never said that Atlantis was full of huge architectural wonders, and they also never said that Atlantis was as warful as the Greek version. To the Egyptians, Atlantis (or "Etelenty" as they called it) was just the birthplace of their ancestors, who they believed had superior intellects to normal humans.

I think the North Sea would be a perfect candidate for the location of Atlantis.

What Plato said was Atlantis was destroyed over a period of time by earthquakes and floods - not wiped out in an instant by a global flood.

The Atlantic ocean sea floor is spreading and more than capable of producing the forces needed to tear a small island nation apart, it's happening even now to Iceland.

Here is link explaining the forces at work in Iceland. I know its comparing apples and oranges but what may have happened to Atlantis may lay in store for a few of our other island nations.

pubs.usgs.gov...

With all the evidence that man was using tools tens of thousands of years ago (50000 b.c.) and producing art we've been able to date to 35000 b.c., it shouldnt be a big stretch of the imagination that we were civilized at least 10000 years ago.

Like Hawaii or Iceland, two island civilizations that may still meet their fate in the ocean if an active volcano erupts, Atlantis could have succumbed to such a fate. What would they have been able to leave behind? A paltry few written records that would have been turned into myth by other cultures over the ages.

"THe day After Tomorrow" was an interesting movie, and when first watching it I got totally caught up in the concept, but with every consecutive veiwing there are so many things that just don't add up about the storm. I don't know alot about weather, but it just did not make sense. The character plot never made any sense even from the first viewing.

Though I do believe that the story of Atlantis may be in part true, I do not believe it was a society of technological advancements. It may have been technologically advanced compared to other cultures of the time, but nothing like what some have turned it into throughout the years. I don't have a clue as to where Atlantis was, it could have even been one of the societies we already have discovered, but without the atlantean name, which that name could have been created later as the story was retold over time before Plato had even been told the story.

Many myths and legends have some tryth to them , though admitedly not all. Troy, was once thought to be only legend, but has since been found to have truth to the tale.

Originally posted by Ranger23
once every couple thousand years a huge storm froze over much of the world , when the North Atlantic drift shuts down.
[edit on 20-8-2008 by Ranger23]

TDAT is fiction and a super storm would not cause that effect.

But.... Frozen Earth can occur from extreme solar minimum. Infact it has happened in Recorded history in the 1700's. No one knows how it affected the Southern hemisphere though as there are no written recordes.

Its quite possible that given our current Solar Minimum phase that we are heading into that we may see a reflection of such an event.

Grrrr double post sorry

[edit on 18/5/2009 by Kliskey]

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
Though I do believe that the story of Atlantis may be in part true, I do not believe it was a society of technological advancements. It may have been technologically advanced compared to other cultures of the time, but nothing like what some have turned it into throughout the years. I don't have a clue as to where Atlantis was, it could have even been one of the societies we already have discovered, but without the atlantean name, which that name could have been created later as the story was retold over time before Plato had even been told the story.

Many myths and legends have some tryth to them , though admitedly not all. Troy, was once thought to be only legend, but has since been found to have truth to the tale.

On the other hand, no culture has any mythology that involves this place we have come to call "Atlantis," while the mythology of Greece is full to the brim with references to Troy.

See the difference?

No mention of anything even remotely resembling Plato's Atlantis until after Plato wrote Timaeus and Critias.

Harte

On the other hand, Harte is wrong.

reply to post by Parta


Could you clarify?
In which part is Harte incorrect?
Though I don't always agree with Harte, usually makes reasonable statements.

There are a lot of world mythologies that talk about precursor civilizations that were usually destroyed for some reason or another. Even the Bible talks about two of them. The time of the giants, or the Nephilim (physically larger people), and then after then, the time of the men of old and renown. They're not specifically said to have existed in the Atlantic, but there they are.

There are others, such as the Toltec story of Tloque Nahuaque, who destroyed the first Earth with a "water-sun," and then destroyed another time of earth giants - who lived in northern Mexico (North America) - with earthquakes and floods. The Aztecs were also pretty sure that the first men came from a place "north of Mexico," and were somehow associated with seven caves or cities.

This consistency of a civilization "north of Mexico" is interesting, since it could be argued that Atlantis might have been in that general area. Being destroyed by a water-sun (comet?) and floods is interesting. Linking the prehistoric Atlantic civilization with the number 7, and caves and gold, might be fruitful. Even Beowulf on the other side of the ocean, traveled into the sea to caves filled with gold.

It's too bad the North American stories are so old, fragmentary, and poorly translated that it's hard to make a strong case for a connection between them and the older classical stories of the Middle East. Linking more myths in from western Africa might be fruitful, as any large tsunami rolling in from the northern Atlantic would have had some kind of effect on that territory. There might also be some older legends about an Atlantic civilization if the Altlaneans were trading along that coast.

Hard to put all the pieces together, since they're so old. Who knows?