Is Atlantis a metaphor for a great civilzation lost in a superstorm?

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Surely.

In the second chapter of the Vedidad, a very succinct description of the vara is given. It has three concentric circles with nine passages through the outer ring, six through the middle and 4 to the inner.

From the Book of Gates.

"These are they who are in the Land of Serser; 'they have received their bread, and they have gained the mastery over this Lake, and they praise this great god. Ra saith unto them:--'Eat ye your green herbs, and satisfy ye yourselves with your cakes; let there be fulness to your bellies, and satisfaction to your hearts. Your green herbs are of the Lake of Serser, the Lake which may not be approached. Praise ye me, glorify ye me, for I am the Great One of terror of the Tuat.' They say unto Ra:--'Hail to thee, O thou Great One of the SEKHEMU! Praise is thine, and majesty is thine. The Tuat is thine, and to thy will; it is a hidden place by thee for those who are in its Circles. The height of Heaven is thine, and to thy will; it is a secret place by thee for those who belong thereto. "

-Praise be to thee O Ra, exalted Sekhem, Lord of the hidden circles of the Tuat...
-Praise be to thee, O Ra... and thou makest thy creations as Governor of thy circle.
-Praise be to thee, O Ra... Thou art he whose forms are his own creations, and thou makest thy creations in thy great disk.
-Praise be to thee, O Ra... Thou art he who gathereth together thy gods when thou goest into thy hidden circle.
-Praise be to thee, O Ra... the sender of light into his circle... thou art he who makest the darkness to be in his circle, and thou coverest those who are therein.
- Praise be to thee, O Ra... the illuminator of bodies in the horizens... thou art he who entereth into his circle.
- Praise be to thee, O Ra... thou goest in and comest out and thou comest out and goest in to thy hidden circle...


Noone can say they are... noone can say they aren't.

edit for more circle references

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Parta]

Originally posted by Nohup
There are a lot of world mythologies that talk about precursor civilizations that were usually destroyed for some reason or another. Even the Bible talks about two of them. The time of the giants, or the Nephilim (physically larger people), and then after then, the time of the men of old and renown. They're not specifically said to have existed in the Atlantic, but there they are.

It is certain that many hundreds of thousands of people were killed in prehistory by weather and climate phenomena as well as vulcanism and things like earthquakes and tsunamis.

I don't see the connection, however.

No myth involves anything even remotely similar to what Plato tells. In fact, there is no tradition, oral or written, involving anything like Atlantis.

There are oral and written traditions of people being killed en masse by weather and/or vulcanism though. I can see why that would be remembered in myth.

Originally posted by NohupThe Aztecs were also pretty sure that the first men came from a place "north of Mexico," and were somehow associated with seven caves or cities.

Actually, the Aztecs themselves came from north of Mexico, and this part of their mythology involves themselves, not all of humankind and certainly not the "first men." To the Aztecs, the first men came during the second sun, and their geographical location isn't mentioned, though I would be willing to believe that they considered it to be north of Mexico, thus considering themselves as a people that arose from the "first men."
But all the first humans were killed in a war of gods, or so they believed.

In fact, all previous humans were killed or transformed into animals at the ends of their various "suns."

The current humans, the Aztecs believed, were re-c reated from the bones of the previous dead ones in a place called "Tamoanchan."

Tamoanchan was believed to be in Mexico somewhere by the post-classic Aztecs, though what earlier beliefs might have been no one can say:

According to a figurative etymology in the Florentine Codex of Sahagún (bk. 10, ch. 29, para. 14) , "Tamoanchan ... means "We go down to our home".[2] The word tamoanchan does not actually come from the Nahuatl languages, but is instead demonstrated to have its roots in Mayan etymology, with a meaning which could be glossed as "place of the misty sky", or similar. Descriptions of Tamoanchan appearing in the Florentine Codex indicate that the Postclassic Nahuas thought of it being located in the humid lowlands region of the Gulf Coast of Mexico, inhabited by the Huastec Maya people.[3]

SNIP

Besides the mythical Tamoanchan, Mexican historian and scholar of Mesoamerican belief systems Alfredo López Austin identifies several sacred sites that were historical localities associated with Tamoanchan. According to López Austin these were:

three Tamoanchans located on earth:
1) the Tamoanchan in Cuauhnahuac;
2) Tamoanchan Chalchiuhmomozco mentioned by Chimalpahin Cuauhtlehuanitzin (... where Chalco Amaquemecan was later established); and
3) the Tamoanchan ... mentioned in Sahagún's work."[8]

The first of these was where the first man and woman of the new re-peoplement were created (by Ehecatl), the "new Tamoanchan cave in the Province of Cuernavaca, actually Cuauhnahuac".[9]

The second of these was "a fountain ... in which they saw a goddess and which they called chalchiuhmatlalatl ("blue-green waters of chalchihuite ...") on a small hill next to Iztactepetl and Popocatepetl. ... Tamoanchan Chalchiuhmomozco was so sacred that no one could defecate there. The settlers had to travel four leagues to relieve themselves at a place called Cuitlatepec, or Cuitlatetelco, but, since they were great magicians, they flew there."[10] [Likewise for the Otomi, "Mayonikha is so sacred that no one can defecate" thereat.]

The third was the site where "the learned men, ... Tlaltecuin, and Xuchicahuaca, ... invented new sacred books, the count of destiny, the book of years, and the book of dreams."[11]

SOURCE

Theirs was a belief stipulating the "fives suns" model of creation.
Read at these links for what they considered the origin(s) of mankind:

ONE

TWO

Harte

Originally posted by Harte


No mention of anything even remotely resembling Plato's Atlantis until after Plato wrote Timaeus and Critias.

Harte

Hi Harte,

At least ten years ago I went on a blitz reading something like 20 books on Atlantis, avoiding the masses of flaky paperback pseudo-history.

At least a dozen well done researches proving Atlantis was: Troy, somewhere in the British Isles, a Mediterranean archipelago(?), America, North Africa, and other unexpected locations.

Efforts were made to show how Plato's numbering was misinterpreted, like everything had become multiplied by a factor of 10 or 100.

As I read each book I was convinced they'd found the answer. Their translations, graphs, charts, photographs, explanations all worked.

But then the next book would be equally convincing and provide completely different locations and justifications.

All compelling reading by sincere people. One of those books may have the answer.

But it looks more and more as if it's actual location is in the minds of men rather than a specific geographic location.

Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


What was the name of the sea that filled the carpathian basin at the end of the ice age [at the time of atlantis]? Have you ever read a book that tells you that?

I'm sure you are sincere in thinking that the books you've read on the subject make you an expert but unless you can answer the simplest and most fundamental questions then should you talk down to anyone?


[edit on 21-5-2009 by Parta]

Originally posted by Parta

What was the name of the sea that filled the carpathian basin at the end of the ice age [at the time of atlantis]? Have you ever read a book that tells you that?

I'm sure you are sincere in thinking that the books you've read on the subject make you an expert but unless you can answer the simplest and most fundamental questions then should you talk down to anyone?

Reread what I wrote. I said THE OPPOSITE. Read some books, many compelling, most conflicting claims as to where Atlantis was. No claim of expertise whatsoever.

Atlantis in the Black Sea. That what you're talking about?

A strong case and may very well be the answer to where the Atlantis story comes from. Without checking, details differ from Plato, who if I recall got the story from Egypt. Not that I take Plato literally.

Thinking back now, one book presents a case for Atlantis being Antarctica.
The arguments seemed convincing.

But I'm not an expert.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael



The Carpathian Basin is the cuvete in which runs the middle Danube. Not one of your 20 authors knew there was a sea there so they lack the fundamentals too.

I believe 20 books is the cutoff for someone suggesting they have far more knowledge than the common man. ie you were saying you were an expert.

Originally posted by Parta

The Carpathian Basin is the cuvete in which runs the middle Danube. Not one of your 20 authors knew there was a sea there so they lack the fundamentals too.

I believe 20 books is the cutoff for someone suggesting they have far more knowledge than the common man. ie you were saying you were an expert.

Please get over it. I said I read 20 books and did not claim to be an expert.

Should I type it ten times so the point is made?

A lot of books made a lot of conpelling claims. They radically conflict with each other.

So far I haven't been convinced of one unquestionable source for the Atlantis story. It may be in one of those books, or in material I am not aware of.

Hope that's clear.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Parta

The Carpathian Basin is the cuvete in which runs the middle Danube. Not one of your 20 authors knew there was a sea there so they lack the fundamentals too.

I believe 20 books is the cutoff for someone suggesting they have far more knowledge than the common man. ie you were saying you were an expert.

Please get over it. I said I read 20 books and did not claim to be an expert.

Should I type it ten times so the point is made?

A lot of books made a lot of conpelling claims. They radically conflict with each other.

So far I haven't been convinced of one unquestionable source for the Atlantis story. It may be in one of those books, or in material I am not aware of.

Hope that's clear.


Mike

Mike,

It makes you an expert on "Atlantis has been found!!!" claims.

The above, however, exposes you as a novice at posting on forums.

You're feeding a troll!

I've had Parta on "ignore" for a couple months now. He is like a broken record on his "Carpathian Atlantis" claim which, by the way, has no provenance whatsoever.

Stop feeding him.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Mike,

It makes you an expert on "Atlantis has been found!!!" claims.

The above, however, exposes you as a novice at posting on forums.

You're feeding a troll!

I've had Parta on "ignore" for a couple months now. He is like a broken record on his "Carpathian Atlantis" claim which, by the way, has no provenance whatsoever.

Stop feeding him.

Harte

Thanks Harte.

I thought this kind of behaviour was just in UFO, 9/11 and dreaded Zionist forums.

Not sure who gains or loses points if the Carpathian claim as the source of the Atlantis story is correct.

I'm inclined to side with the Antarctica claim. Little archeological digging there so little to dispute it.

Maybe everywhere outside the Greece-Egypt axis was Atlantis.

Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael

I'm inclined to side with the Antarctica claim. Little archeological digging there so little to dispute it.

I'm surprised.

Whatever you say, I'm sticking with my own theory that Atlantis is in space.

One day Atlantis will return. Sooner than you think!!



Harte

reply to post by mmiichael


What type of behavior? My responding to your egotistical rant about reading 20 books thus making you an expert and any believers sincere pathetic little know nots?

Harte is a math teacher from Memphis and a self admitted failed atlantologist [those are his words]. It must be rather embarassing to him that he didn't know there was a sea there since he would know that if he was competent.

When he says that noone but plato wrote about atlantis, that is not true and it clearly indicates that he is not well read enough to be guiding anyone through this subject.

Clump yourself together with harte and his electron tiger buddies who can't even understand wiki very well [remember the annunaki harte? oops.. amateur]. you are all good for a laugh.

Originally posted by Parta

What type of behavior? My responding to your egotistical rant about reading 20 books thus making you an expert and any believers sincere pathetic little know nots?

Clump yourself together with harte and his electron tiger buddies who can't even understand wiki very well [remember the annunaki harte? oops.. amateur]. you are all good for a laugh.

We're not supposed to call people jerks on this forum.

But if anyone does make that claim about you, I won't disagree.

You are good for a laugh.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


You should put me on ignore shouldn't you?

would you consider yourself a failed atlantologist too? I don't consider myself that since the national geological institute of romania agrees with me. Thats a european union country for me. who you got?



[edit on 21-5-2009 by Parta]

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by mmiichael

 

You should put me on ignore shouldn't you?

would you consider yourself a failed atlantologist too? I don't consider myself that since the national geological institute of romania agrees with me. Thats a european union country for me. who you got?

National Geological Institute of Antarctica.

A whole continent.

(but with their admitted low self-esteem, they are somewhat prejudiced.)


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


what is the url to the website? must be a .org or .a s s

Well i think Atlantis is a term that was used to describe the civilization that came before us. The Rig-veda talks about some pretty out there stuff that is not so out there if you think in terms of modern man existing for millions of years. There was a book called Forbiden Archeology that goes into detail of things found that confirm this, you can do a search on ooparts and find some. A problem people are met with is things do not last as long as we think they do. For example if you carved your name on a stone tablet, put your name on a CD and put it on a hard drive and burried all 3 for about a million years. What would still be recognizable after all that time? We find mostly stone tools that reach the prehistoric level but i do not think it prooves much. Stone tools are still used today and we still have people living in primitive tribes in the world.

reply to post by mmiichael


Ditto on comments by Harte on Parta.

Troll

Had him on ignore for months

[edited]

I took Parta off ignore to see if he had gotten better. He hasn't, I suggest alerting a mod. We try to keep a higher standard in Ancient & lost civilizations than they do in the UFO and 911 forums.

Parta now back on ignore!

[edit on 21/5/09 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


There is another one of the tigers. Chronic tourist, no depth.

Just for fun one should wander through the search and see how many times hansy has been called a troll etc.



[edit on 21-5-2009 by Parta]

Originally posted by The Mack
Well i think Atlantis is a term that was used to describe the civilization that came before us. The Rig-veda talks about some pretty out there stuff that is not so out there if you think in terms of modern man existing for millions of years. There was a book called Forbiden Archeology that goes into detail of things found that confirm this, you can do a search on ooparts and find some. A problem people are met with is things do not last as long as we think they do. For example if you carved your name on a stone tablet, put your name on a CD and put it on a hard drive and burried all 3 for about a million years. What would still be recognizable after all that time? We find mostly stone tools that reach the prehistoric level but i do not think it prooves much. Stone tools are still used today and we still have people living in primitive tribes in the world.

You might hope to find the great vara that yama or yima or jama dug in the place that was not affected by the flood. It was very big and distinctive and big distinctive holes can last for a very long time.

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Ditto on comments by Harte on Parta.

Troll

Had him on ignore for months

[edited]

I took Parta off ignore to see if he had gotten better. He hasn't, I suggest alerting a mod. We try to keep a higher standard in Ancient & lost civilizations than they do in the UFO and 911 forums.

Parta now back on ignore!

[edit on 21/5/09 by Hanslune]

Wanted to add:

We should also put Michael Cremo on ignore.

Harte