Is Atlantis a metaphor for a great civilzation lost in a superstorm?

reply to post by Harte


Poor Cremo

It must really bother you when someone has a bigger audience than the 4 you can put together.



[edit on 21-5-2009 by Parta]

I've been wondering the following concerning Atlantis.

There are supposedly 6 different area's in the world under water that contain possible signs of the lost city.

What if they were an advanced civilization when all the continents were at one time just one big land mass (Pangaea).

What is the possibility they discovered a weapon or had an accident that not only buried the city under water but also caused Pangaea to split into different land masses that we see today?

Could explain the 6 different reported spots. Not only that but if they did stumble across some great energy source or devised a powerful weapon that misfired well I'll have to think on this one a bit more.

reply to post by Harte


Old 'Micheal? I presume you mean the actual author and not some guy on this board using his name?

He'd be interesting to talk to at least, he does have some information even if it is horribly flawed.

reply to post by Hanslune


There was a tradition in Ancient Greek philosophy where the philosopher would argue against an imaginary person in order to prove himself correct, by defeating each question or criticism put forth by this imaginary individual.

All Plato did was kick this tradition up a notch to make it two nations arguing, with Athens as the philosopher, and an imaginary civilization as the adversary. Athens, as the Republic that Plato was advocating, naturally triumphs and the adversary is destroyed.

That's all it is. Honestly ladies and gentlemen, it's really that simple

So all of the other cultures that mention a three ring city in a lake and the wars and catastrophes associated are doing what the greeks did too? the egyptians? the persians? from the same script?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Yes the dialogues. I don't think the classic Atlantis that Plato made up is of course real. However we may find some regional city that was more advanced than the average culture back during that time frame.

We've have indicators that civilization, in bits and pieces, starting, halting and then going again begin earlier than Sumer with places Catalhuyuk and Tepi.

reply to post by Hanslune


Of course hansy will neglect to mention the permanent settlements at least 10ky earlier [dolni vestonice - central europe] where they were weaving and making ceramics and worshipping a mother goddess and providing social services and burying some people with an embarassment of riches relatively etc.

That would give civilization a good 10k years to advance before the time of atlantis. And boy did those same folks have all the commodities... enough to dominate through all the eras.

reply to post by Parta


More likely they're false attributions. You'd be amazed at how much raw BS is floating in the pool of crypto-history. Somehow, claiming that the Egyptians believed something is supposed to make it true, even if the claim itself is false.

It's sort of like how Christian missionaries spread the Biblical flood story all around, and then tried to claim it's true because so many people have it in their mythology.

Originally posted by Darthorious
I've been wondering the following concerning Atlantis.

There are supposedly 6 different area's in the world under water that contain possible signs of the lost city.

Actually, no there is not. There's no evidence of any unknown civilization destroyed in the ancient past anywhere on Earth, underwater or above.

Originally posted by DarthoriousWhat if they were an advanced civilization when all the continents were at one time just one big land mass (Pangaea).

You realize how long ago Pangea was around? 250 million years.

You realize that we have plenty of fossils from that time yet no hominid fossils have ever been found dating back to even 1/50th of that time period? And no remains of any species of Homo have ever been found that were older than abou 2-1/2 million years old?

Originally posted by DarthoriousI'll have to think on this one a bit more.

I'm very encouraged by that last bit!

Harte

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Well be that as it may, the same stories exist in Egyptian [Book of Gates circles of the Tuat], Persian [Zoroaster and Yima] and Greek and Sumerian [the bolts that bar the sea].

reply to post by Harte


As I have noted many times. People not familar with archaeology are not aware of just how many traces a civilization leaves in the ground from just survival. The amount is impressive.

For these civilizations to have existed they would have had to come up with a way to survive that left no trace, had habitations that left no trace, left no trace of fires, burials or even just trash, not making tools, etc.

If you take a 1 meter wooden stake about 8 cm round. And pound it in the soil of most temperate and hot climates and all arctic ones. Then leave it for ten thousand years. An archaeologist can detect it. Make a stone tool - it can be detected. Kill and eat an animal - the bones will show butchering, the fire pits and some times the waste pits will be detected.

Etc

LOL

I've done a great deal of research on the subject, as many of you know. I've posted my consensus on ATS before, but I figured I might as well restate.

Plato's Atlantis is a metaphor for The Republic. But all other "Atlantis" theories are the same as the Noah's Ark theories, the civilizations lost in India, and many more. Great floods have happened numerous times in history. "Atlantis" is the general name for the destroyed civilizations we have not found yet.

Anyway, I studied it for 8 months for a few hours a day along with some other enigmas. I read Timaeus and Critias, looked at modern research, all that stuff. That's what I decided on, but many people have different beliefs about Atlantis.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Believe in Atlantis has moved into a quasi -religious realm. As the archaeological realities have shown themselves to very limiting to the possibility of Plato's Atlantis actually existing. New agers have move Atlantis further back in time, to other planets, dimensions, etc.

Its a nice myth

On another board a long time ago I surveyed the Atlantis believers and found that almost all had never read the C & T by Plato. There belief was based on materials from sources that were, er, hah...imaginative...

As for all the many places humans think Atlantis was....a good archaeologist, geologist and paleolimnology should be able to determine if the site is a major civilization in a few weeks if not days. If at sea it gets a lot harder by a factor of 50 but even sea sites will have beach wash up and be come to dredging

[edit on 21/5/09 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


I agree. When reading Plato's work, not only did I find it too specific in the wrong places, and too general where it should have been more descriptive, but I noticed the parallels with the societal ideals of The Republic and made a connection. The general layout of his Atlantis is nothing like anything the world has ever seen, to my understanding. Not as much in terms of advancement as in terms of general architecture.

If it was not for the obvious evidence that ancient cities have been flooded before (although probably more gradually than suddenly), I would have even less belief in the term "Atlantis" at all. It's a blanket term now, anyway.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Very much so a "generic term'. Probably so poisoned now with new age nonsense we should call it something else.

Maybe we could call it, 'Farouck'.

reply to post by Hanslune


If it wasn't for, you know, Donnelly and Madam Blavatsky, it would probably have a little dignity left.

For some reason that I still do not understand, even young children have heard of Atlantis. The "hidden civilization under the ocean." It's a fun tale, but it's not true. And with the addition of prophecies and stories about Martian evolution and all that jazz, even Plato's original story is hard to decipher from this jumble.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Hanslune

 

If it wasn't for, you know, Donnelly and Madam Blavatsky, it would probably have a little dignity left.

For some reason that I still do not understand, even young children have heard of Atlantis. The "hidden civilization under the ocean." It's a fun tale, but it's not true. And with the addition of prophecies and stories about Martian evolution and all that jazz, even Plato's original story is hard to decipher from this jumble.

I think Edgar Cayce gave it a second life with New Agers. He talked about it a lot and there was some date set for it rising again. 1968 was it? Still some lame attempt to connect that date with something called the Bimini Ridge. Atlantis in the Gulf of Mexico is now another suspect.

Every single prediction Cayce made turned out to be wrong. We presume his visions of lost Atlantis - I think they destroyed themselves with ray machines - were equally accurate.

Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


Madam Blavatsky was like Edgar Cayce, only she came first. She founded "Theosophy" and had a whole bunch of visions about Atlantis. None of them were really true, and number of credible scientists and politicians followed her beliefs for some reason and went and published research that backed up her ideas.

Atlantis is a mysterious legend, which is why so many people were drawn to it. Unfortunately, some of those people who made it famous were also wackos.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Plato would be pissed if he saw people mis-understanding his literary attempt. Cursing in classical Greek might sound interesting.

Oh and Michael I think you meant the beach rock known as the Bimini road.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Madam Blavatsky was like Edgar Cayce, only she came first. She founded "Theosophy" and had a whole bunch of visions about Atlantis. None of them were really true, and number of credible scientists and politicians followed her beliefs for some reason and went and published research that backed up her ideas.

Atlantis is a mysterious legend, which is why so many people were drawn to it. Unfortunately, some of those people who made it famous were also wackos.

I expect Cayce had read some popularized version of Mme Blavatsky. In less worldly times her daft writing were taken seriously.

Wasn't there a popular 19th Century book about a lost continent in the Pacific that was on even shakier grounds?

Poseidonis was it? The name Donnelly comes to mind.

Maybe it was in Carpathia.


Mike



[edit on 22-5-2009 by mmiichael]