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Originally posted by malganis
reply to post by odyseusz
i think this Polish guy's hit a lot of nails on the head with this post. Apart from the bits about the number of citizens in each country lol you may want to edit that
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
reply to post by odyseusz
On your last statement I think the events of 9/11 and subsequent "pre emptive" action means that we can never be sure again that they, whoever they are "could do nothing" against any of us.
Originally posted by odyseusz
reply to post by MischeviousElf
Calm down.
Originally posted by OldMedic
Russia has been a bully for at least 300 years.
It has repeatedly taken other countries by force, and has killed millions because they did not agree with the various Russian governments of the particular age.
Keep in mind that the Soviet Union was just another version of the Russian Royalty.
The top dogs lived well, while the peasants barely survived. Nothing really changed, it was just Russian serfdom under another name.
Russia (the Soviet Union) agreed with Hitler to divide Poland in two, and that is exactly what they did in 1939. Poland ceased to exist, and the Soviets murdered tens of thousands of Poles.
The Soviets murdered an estimated 25,000,000 of their own people, plus untold numbers from the countries they occupied, during their rule. They made the Nazi's look like beginners in the killing of people.
Now they are back to their old ways, use the bullet first.
But of course, the appologists will support them. They are so cowardly, that they pee their pants at the very thought of resisting such behavior.
The Europeans will give in 100%.
All Russia has to do is cut of their oil, and they will have their lips plastered all over the the Russian asses.
Keep in mind, the Europeans couldn't protect themselves against the Nazi's,
couldn't protect themselves against Napoleon,
couldn't protect themselves against the Soviets. It was always Britain and/or the United States that protected them.
But in their eyes, the US is always the bad guy, and the Russians are the good guys.
They will follow that line right up until they are conquered. Then, they won't be al;lowed to say anything.
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
However I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe in the "Limited nuclear exchange" scenario, so Europe and indeed most of the world would suffer Nuclear Attacks.
If you do believe in the "Limited Nuclear Exchange" Scenario, and are willing to promote it, well, there is a guy by the name of Comic Ali or more correctly the ex Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Saha
loved that guy!
Anyhow if you truly believe that a limited exchange, without a resultant, even if months later, proliferation of use is a feasability, Or believe that in an all out nuclear war, if say only a hundred or so missiles got the US or Russia, and civilization would survive, well im sorry but you have been badly informed.
There are a multitude of reasons for that;
Environmental, psychological, sociological, and they would all have a profound affect on our ability to survive.
Just one, one effect in one category Psychological... stress is the bigger killer in the world! think on that! How stressed would we all be after a nuclear war? That is not aimed at you odyseusz, its just a general observation!
Certainly I think your right there in saying that Russia fears the former soviet states joining NATO, and the NATO expansion generally.
I feel that Georgia will have to wait a while now before being invited to join NATO, and any move on Ukraines part would result in similar Russian reaction to the Georgia Situation.
Originally posted by candyfloss
Better warn my bro as he's living in Gdansk.Surely ,what the fine general means is'you are leaving yourself open to attack ' with the idea of getting rid of the missile shields rather than 'we will promise to bomb Poland now they will have the missile sheilds'.I wonder what the feeling in Poland is?I'll contact my bro for the lowdown...
Originally posted by Justice11
Russia has been so busy suppressing internal dissent the last ten years they have fallen behind in technology with the West.
Originally posted by Justice11You see a free thinking society tends to throw ideas around more and those ideas get to the drawing board faster if you know what i mean.
Originally posted by Justice11So russian can swallow their own news invincibility but i doubt its true.No actually i know it not true.
Originally posted by odyseusz
What is most important which I don’t agree with you is about “limited exchange”. You said that even 100 nukes doesn’t change our civilization as we know in present. I could say that we even don’t need nukes to change our civilization.
Look on that economic crisis in US which is spreading al over the world. We even don’t understand how it came. It’s nearly without reason.
How do you imagine only one nuke explosion could influent on ale economies in the world.
Even if war doesn’t blow up the lack of trust for the investments will start e global economic Armageddon.
Everyone who are now starting with new investment’s would hold his money in case of loses.
There is no worst scenario that fear which will stop the money circulation. It means that no one would earn any money even in the terms of decades maybe.
Only governments interventions in economy would keep this going but let’s say the truth, that would put us back to the eighteenth maybe seventieth century.
Our civilization used to exist in the world when nothing really important happens.
That stabilization allowed us to develop very subtle balance. That balance is not self balancing as the liberal economist is trying us to believe. That balance need a lot of care to be kept.
Changing climate, mayor bankruptcy, any war even butterfly in amazons jungle has great influence on that. Limited exchange is a bushtit.
One more thing. WWIII would not start with e conflict of two biggest military powers. It would start in a small local conflict which now could sounds exotic. For example something like second war between Iraq and Iran after US and the rest would live Iraq. War between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Turkey vs Iraq (Kurds minority), Morocco vs. Algeria, some Indonesian wars.
That’s a potential wars which doesn’t sound scary but can engage military superpowers and we doesn’t now even understand why.
Many of that county have or would have sooner or later nuclear weapon. Let say the truth, nuclear technology of constructing bombs is easy as construction of crank, it is only the problem of proper material possession which is matter of time. We doesn’t protect Iraq from Iran with a anti missals shield in Poland ore even in Israel ore Turkey. They don’t need missals to strike the bomb, they need only to park a car in the middle of any town.
That’s definitely is not a problem of Europe but even if it would be we couldn’t do anything about this even if we starts now.