SETI Waste of Time & Money

SETI Waste of Time & Money

This is a subject that has been bothering me for some time. When I was younger I thought this was a great program and was very enthusiastic about the prospect of finding signals from Alien worlds.

But the more I thought about it and after doing a lot of research on and off over the years on the subject, I came to realize it’s a total waste of time and resources that could be better utilized in other endeavors
The premise of SETI

Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence

Is solely based on the idea that if there are Alien civilizations out there that they must be like ourselves and have followed a similar path of technological development in that they have discovered Radio and Television and have been either transmitting in the hope of making contact, or they again like ourselves have not realized that we have been spewing Radio and TV signals out into space that have traveled great distances throughout the known galaxy.


If Mankind is an example of what to look for then this becomes a lost lead. With the advancements we have made over the past 100 years or so “WE “the human race or Earth will be going silent. With the development of direct digital satellite signals, fiber optics, and cable TV etc. We have been and will continue to send less and less over the airwaves out into space.


In theory if we do come across an Alien Radio or TV transmission. Whether they sent it on purpose or by accident it would have traveled the minimum of 40 light years which is one of the nearest star system, or most likely a few hundred light years or more, then by the time we received their message they could or would have gone silent. Just like we will in all likelihood in the next 50 to 100 years.


For argument sake, Say we received a signal. How far away did it come from and how long ago was it sent? That civilization could have died out thousands of years ago. Was it a direct message to Earth or did we just pick up an Alien radio commercial to buy eggs at half price? And if they are totally alien to us how would we decipher such a message? Which brings us to the ever popular WOW signal. For those of you who do not know what the WOW signal is, I have provided a little video on the subject to bring you up to speed.






Was it a direct signal to us? Or did we just catch the very tail end of a message that has been transmitting for say 1000 years and they gave up after all that time because they did not receive a reply? That would be heart breaking. Or even worse they packed into a few seconds the Encyclopedia Galactica and we at the time did not have the technological knowhow to decipher the message and missed our greatest scientific moment.


I like Carl Sagons example of this, he said something along the lines that it would be like somebody on top of mount Everest lighting a match and it burns for only a matter of minutes and we are in NY scanning the Horizon we would have to be looking at that exact location and at the exact time with the perfect equipment to see the light from that match. The odds of that happening are Huge maybe somebody here at ATC can do the math on that one.


In the end I feel that we should not get our hopes up in receiving a signal because in all likely hood it was not meant for our ears, and more likely it was just a broadcast of the 90th Alien Olympics and we just happened to receive a random signal.


P.S. Don’t get me wrong I would love to be proven wrong, I am still hopeful that we will make contact someday but for now.
Sad to say all I see are rocks.


Your comments?



SLAY

HMMMM.... no replies now that is a conspiracy

nobody has an opinion?

I think either SETI is a distraction to ease peoples minds that if they haven't picked up a signal, then there are no aliens. However, if aliens do all their communicating telepathically, how do they expect to pick up any signals?

I agree SETI is a waste of time and money. Instead of them listening, they should be watching the skies. Set up the best video equipment and start rolling.

Originally posted by virraszto
I think either SETI is a distraction to ease peoples minds that if they haven't picked up a signal, then there are no aliens.

True but the lack of a signal is not really proof that nobody is out there. We may not have been looking in the right direction.

Originally posted by virraszto
I agree SETI is a waste of time and money. Instead of them listening, they should be watching the skies. Set up the best video equipment and start rolling.

I agree but not here on Earth maybe on the moon or Mars or a orbiting Eye and Ears satellite, Facing out into space instead of looking down at the Earth

the SETI program, allows a study of how surveillence over a broad range of frequencies and such.... can be an ongoing 24/7 operation.

let's say it is a proving ground of sorts...and it did capture the world's attention & imagination for quite a while,
security and message intercepts that NSA now uses.... most likely used some SETI processes and developments, perhaps even algorthims,


SETI, showed a working model operation, which involves signal corps analysis, time management of limited personnel and a lot of other data mining information...

yeah, it's likely a dead-end in searching for cosmic intelligence (an 'age of radio' intelligence)... but it has its uses in an abundantly populated world where nitches are created to employ everyone so as to keep the consumer-debt economies going.

I would not consider this to be a waste of money. I believe it our duty as a species to apply the most sophisticated technology conceivable to explore our universe. Same goes for the Hubble telescope, the space program, etc. We should be looking, listening and probing as far as we can reach. I am not a believer of UFOs and Aliens, however my mind is certainly open to any credible scientific proof or evidence to the contrary. My thought is that if we don't look/listen, we may never know. Consider SETI to be a set of ears, and the HST to be eyes of human science of the universe. It wouldn't take but 1 contact to make it all worthwhile. Yes the needle in a haystack analogy applies, but as the Mythbusters demonstrate... finding that needle is indeed possible because human innovation is quite remarkable, and getting better every day.

reply to post by mapsurfer_


I think it would be closer to a needle in a field of hey! and we would have to be listening in the right direction at the exact time they are signaling!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, I believe the Allen Radio Telescope array does more than look for ET signals. They have more utility than you might think. For example.. check these seti images. Also, I believe most of their funding is derived from big companies like Microsoft, Sun Micro, and various universities.. I know NASA sponsors some of their projects. But you know.. you dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is some scientific value in what they actually do.

If you want to complain about a huge waste of money and resources, look at the war in Iraq. There are alot worst things to waste money on, especially those things which are counter productive to humanity.

reply to post by SLAYER69


yes even paul allan who donated $12 million to seti described it as the "longest of long shots" But the payoff is so immense its a worthwhile task.

The problems you talk about in distance and time are known in seti as the "synchronicity problem". Seti is doing real deep space exploration, christopher columbus could have sat in a spanish bar all day argueing whether there was another continent out accross the ocean. The only way to ever find out is to do the experiment and go look.

This is how science works we explore & do experiments to further our understanding of the universe. Even a null result is significant as it tells us long lasting transmitting civs are rare.

Any experiment that explores a new parameter space is worthwhile. Many scientific discoveries have been made while looking for something else seti is poised for something like that becuase nobody has ever searched the way they are.

Setis worldwide budget is $5 million dollars per year and the total for the last 40 years is around $100 million dollars. Thats 2 military helicopters. We spend BILLIONS looking for microbial life in our solar system so why not a tiny amount to look for intelligent life? (seti is privately funded now anyway purely through donations- no tax dollars involved)

Seti has searched only 2000 stars in our galaxy. To search all of them will likely need a multi generation effort. I think its one worthwhile no matter what the results are.



[edit on 19-9-2008 by yeti101]

Yes, you are correct SETI is a waste of time and money we have overwhelming evidence that the aliens are visiting earth in many images and videos and how come after all the years the SETI has not managed to find a single alien civilization in the galaxy or the universe.

indeed SETI isn't what some people have hoped.

but maybe it is like that movie The Signal and we can't flip the switch to off yet

Listening for radio signals from an advanced alien race makes about as much sense as listening for telegraph beeps

reply to post by peacejet


then why isnt there 1 clear photograph of a craft? even then you would need to prove its et and not military how would you do that? Also its clear if they arevisiting they are not trying to communicate with us. Why not try find some who are?

after all the years the SETI has not managed to find a single alien civilization in the galaxy or the universe

seti has never had a dedictaed telescope to look for signals until now. Seti has been going for 40 years but actual observation time is about 5 years. They have searched only 2000 stars but becuase they now have the dedicated ATA they will search 1 million by 2025.

Also when the ata reaches 350 dishes it allows us to detect "leaked" signals at much greater disatnce which should makethings more interesting.


[edit on 19-9-2008 by yeti101]

Originally posted by mapsurfer_

If you want to complain about a huge waste of money and resources, look at the war in Iraq. There are alot worst things to waste money on, especially those things which are counter productive to humanity.

I guess I was more focused on the actual time it takes to try and hear or find a signal the way it seems we would have to be listining at the exact time and place for it to be productive. And who knows that signal could have been traveling for something like 10.000 years the society that sent it could be dust by now.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

yes even paul allan who donated $12 million to seti described it as the "longest of long shots" But the payoff is so immense its a worthwhile task.

The problems you talk about in distance and time are known in seti as the "synchronicity problem". Seti is doing real deep space exploration, christopher columbus could have sat in a spanish bar all day argueing whether there was another continent out accross the ocean. The only way to ever find out is to do the experiment and go look.

This is how science works we explore & do experiments to further our understanding of the universe. Even a null result is significant as it tells us long lasting transmitting civs are rare.

Any experiment that explores a new parameter space is worthwhile. Many scientific discoveries have been made while looking for something else seti is poised for something like that becuase nobody has ever searched the way they are.

Setis worldwide budget is $5 million dollars per year and the total for the last 40 years is around $100 million dollars. Thats 2 military helicopters. We spend BILLIONS looking for microbial life in our solar system so why not a tiny amount to look for intelligent life? (seti is privately funded now anyway purely through donations- no tax dollars involved)

Seti has searched only 2000 stars in our galaxy. To search all of them will likely need a multi generation effort. I think its one worthwhile no matter what the results are.



[edit on 19-9-2008 by yeti101]

That's kind of my point I think we should be doing a better job of looking across a much wider spectrum than we are. I know over the past few years, do to the advancement of computers and software they are viewing much greater amounts of channels etc. but if we were serious we would be deploying a much larger amount off our scientific muscle.

reply to post by SLAYER69


NASA has a limited budget and needs to decide which areas get funding. . They do this by calculating the cost/science return. seti doesn't make the cut i'm afraid


[edit on 19-9-2008 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

NASA has a limited budget and needs to decide which areas get funding. . They do this by calculating the cost/science return. seti doesn't make the cut i'm afraid

It's truly sad because it's just like the line from the movie Armageddon
That NASA has a budget for about 20 people searching the sky for Near Earth orbits of comets or asteroids, Which is barely enough to run one McDonalds


And now that SETI is no longer recieving federal assistance it's even less.

We have to keep looking. We can't just give up. What if we miss a signal because SETI shut down a day before it arrived? Our detection abilities will only improve, which makes the search much more thorough. Money gets wasted on a bunch of unworthy causes... SETI isn't one of them. SETI has the potential to bring one of the most important discoveries ever. We can't afford to pass up that opportunity.

Originally posted by GrayFox
We have to keep looking. We can't just give up. What if we miss a signal because SETI shut down a day before it arrived? Our detection abilities will only improve, which makes the search much more thorough. Money gets wasted on a bunch of unworthy causes... SETI isn't one of them. SETI has the potential to bring one of the most important discoveries ever. We can't afford to pass up that opportunity.

True that but it's like looking for a special needle in a stack of needles

I agree there is so much waste. Things are way out of priority

Yes, but think about it this way..... as technology improves, regular needles are removed from that huge pile of needles. As the regular needles are removed, it'll be much easier to find the special one(s). Plus, SETI does help with new astronomy-related discoveries, so it has another use too.