Georgian troops burn South Ossetian refugees alive

Originally posted by absente
Karlhungis, i refered to "pieman's" post - should use the answer button next time - of course there is propaganda on both sides you are right - but we are talking about war crimes here.

Only the loosers get charged with war crimes so why even bother

[edit on 123131p://31b8 by Ownification]

What religion are the georians? just wondering if something like ethnic turmoil has something to do with this.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I believe this story helps support your argument. At least in a way.

news.bbc.co.uk...

-ChriS

reply to post by TH3ON3


Christians (orthodox)

Lol a Russian URL news link. Next piece of propaganda please.

Edit: Oh and the BBC credible? perhaps parts of it, the BBC has shown itself capable of being a non biased source, and a trumpeter of second hand propaganda. I really don't know what I feel about the BBC, most days I'm muttering at my radio for reporting on things I know are just designed to control public opinion. And on other days they're exposing the sort of things that the NWO/PTB whatever would like to keep quiet. Like about Bin Laden being CIA!

I think with the BBC being such a large organization, and with reporters actually on the ground gathering and relaying, rather than just reading what they're told off a dummy sheet, like the pretty looking women working for FOX, that it's harder to control that kind of thing.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by unnamedninja]

I wasn't there so I can't say whether this happened or not. However, in wars, claims of atrocities are frequently made to inflame passions and to "justify" a side's behavior. If Georgian troops did burn the refugees, of *course* Russia is "justified" in charging in to save the poor helpless victims. How very noble of them.

Pravda is the Russian equivalent of the National Enquirer, but without as much credibility. I would take their news with a serious grain of salt about the size of Montana.

I hope it is not true but seein as how the source is Pravada I doubt it. The site is notoriously crap.

You find using Pravda 'denying ignorance'? Sorry, but this ''news'' is not ATS worthy.

Now I would like to see some proper evidence of the ''genocide'' taking place in Georgia.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Georgian troops burn South Ossetian refugees alive

english.pravda.ru

Ossetian journalists wrote on their website that Georgian troops had captured a group of refugees from one of the regions of S. Ossetia. The Georgian military men locked them in a house and set the house on fire, burning all the people inside alive. An Ossetian woman informed Russian Prime Minister Putin of the hideous crime during his visit to a refugee camp. Another woman told Putin that she had seen a Georgian tank running over an elderly Ossetian woman who was trying to save two children.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Could this be russian propaganda at work. Spreading false news and information, hacking of websites, etc

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I'm pretty sure the Russians don't give a damn about the Ossetians. Russia is responsible for hundreds of horrendous war crimes, and arguably genocide, in Chechnya which was basically a mirror situation to the Georgia Ossetia conflict. Russia has just used this situation to make an excuse to occupy Georgia and reclaim some of their lost territories. I really don't know what the hell they were thinking though, especially when the U.N. backs Georgia. It will be interesting to see if the U.N will do anything to stop this invasion or just prove their uselessness yet again by doing nothing. My guess is the latter, Russia is probably pretty confident that the U.N. won't do a damn thing to stop them from taking over Georgia.

reply to post by roche


or could the pro-west media be supressing this?

Jesus you all only know the bull# that your "reliable" fox and cnn feeds you. Western media turned everything around to change the public opinion on the situation in georgia/south ossetia, everyone tends to forget that the Georgians are the ones who started the conflict killing Ossetians with artillery and rockets, they are the provocators. Georgia wants SO to become its territory (there was a conflict back in 1990 about the same issue) as well as some Georgians hate Ossetians, it was more like an ethnic clensings, they threw grenades in the basements where civilians took shelter, they also flooded them, thats what the ossetians who survived have told. Russia did the logical move to protect the innocent people, and as many of the Ossetians have russian citizenship which they asked for and there are many russians living there.
The attack on South Ossetia was probably a planned provocation by Georgian president Saakashvili, he knew that Russians would have no choice but to intervene, and he thought that his new western "friends" would quickly come and help him to fight the "aggressor" Russia. But oh dear he is left on his own, poor Saakashvili. And it makes me sick to death seeing him deliberately lying to the western media about the situation, saying that Russia is invading georgia and thousands georgian civilians have been killed which is bull#, but yet he forgot that he killed 2000 ossetians and doesn't even mention it. He broke the tight friendship between Georgians and Russians which they had for hundred of years, he made friends fight each other and it makes me sad, until the Georgian people get rid of such a cruel leader i don't think the wounds would heal.
some south ossetian victims telling their views on what happened, just copy paste the last bit, for some reason the link wont come up properly
abclocal.go.com.../world_news&id=6318025

bbc at least told us one Ossetian victims view:
news.bbc.co.uk...

some other sources:

www.eyewitnessnewstv.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.liveleak.com...






[edit on 12-8-2008 by tehdreamer]

[edit on 12-8-2008 by tehdreamer]

[edit on 12-8-2008 by tehdreamer]

If you really wish to know the truth why not to strart from the Ossetian sources ...
Free Osetia
Site is in russian language

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

This just reeks of propaganda to me. I don't think we can hope for any sort of non biased, fair or honest reporting on the situation for a while. War is hell and these things may have happened, but I am having a hard time buying this one.

Check out Ossetian news sites like this: www.ossetia.ru...

Please dont fall to Russian propaganda attack. They have launched pretty impressive misinformation wave I have every seen. Even stronger tanh they used last year in april when riots in Estonia breack out.

If You want to read the closest thing to truth please read this article written by Vladimir Socor

Here is the URL to this article: THE GOALS BEHIND MOSCOW’S PROXY OFFENSIVE IN SOUTH OSSETIA


Vladimir Socor is heavy weight in this topic as You can see from this entry taken from Wikipedia.

Vladimir Socor (b. August 3, 1945, Bucharest[1]) is a well known political analyst of East European affairs for the Jamestown Foundation and its Eurasia Daily Monitor, currently residing in Munich, Germany.[1][2] Socor's main specialization focuses on the political affairs and the ethnic conflicts of the former Soviet republics and the CIS.

He is the son of Matei Socor,[3] who, as head of the Romanian Agerpres news agency, was involved in the communist regime's propaganda apparatus, according to the findings of the Tismăneanu Commission.[4]

Vladimir Socor graduated from the Russian School in Bucharest, received a B.A. in History from the University of Bucharest, and an M.Phil. in East European History from Columbia University in 1977.[1]

He worked as an analyst for the Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Research Institute in Munich (1983–1994) and at the Jamestown Foundation in Washington, D.C. (1995–2002). Between 2002 and 2004, Socor worked as a senior fellow at the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies in Washington, D.C. Since 2000, he contributes numerous articles to the European edition of The Wall Street Journal. After the start of the Iraq war, he advocated for the "U.S.-led war to rid Iraq of Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction."[5]

Socor is also critical of Russian president Vladimir Putin's policies regarding the Post-Soviet space and their frozen conflicts — most notably in the separatist enclaves of Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Economist journalist Edward Lucas describes Socor as the "hawkish pro-Moldovan."[6]

Vladimir Socor was involved in the polemics with the former head of the OSCE mission in Moldova, William Hill, during which Socor criticized OSCE policies in regards to Moldova[7], and in return was accused by Hill of fallacies and "outrageous fabrications".[8]


All of You in this forum know how Your coverment can lie to You. The same was the case in Russias response. I really really dont understand how so many westernes have fallen in this trap. As a little interesting fact: Georgian national news sites and goverment web pages were under cyber attacked and taken down 2 day before the conflict started to prevent truth from coming out of real situation in Georgia. NATO Cyber safety experst said that those attacs were made from RUSSIA and that very sophisticated methods were used (no usual hakker could have done that). Russia used the same cyber attack handwritting against Estonia in last april when riots controlled from Moscow too place.

I know what it was to live in USSR because I live in country that was pat of the USSR. Russia is in its way back to being again USSR the empire of evil and threath to free countries around him.

reply to post by Mdv2


Sup, friend Mdv2!

At first from Pravda I was pretty skeptical too, but if you'll read the thread, other sources seem to confirm the story. At present I give it a 50-50 chance of being true, with a slight edge to truthful, because it seems the Russian media have been portraying this whole conflict more accurately with less bias than western media, imo. It seems a lot of what the Georgian leader has said has been pure horse manure. I don't necessarily trust the Russians either though.

Evaluating many messages rather than messengers, we might all gain a better understanding of this situation.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by TrueAmerican]

What, no babies being thrown out of incubators? Horrible things happen in any military conflict, but this sounds like over the top hyperbole to me. Personally, I would have thrown in some puppies being ritually sacrificed to Satan.

The Russian President has declared that peacekeeping operations are now over.

Russia now has half of Georgia - conflict is not yet over in Abkhazia, freedom fighters are still fighting the Georgian invaders, Russia may still be helping them. Israel and America are still arming and commanding Georgian forces.

American mercenaries are amongst the dead and captured. The Russian people blame America and Israel for instigating the conflict. The American people blame John Edwards for cheating on his wife and have been informed that Blue is the 'new green'.

The thing is, its a media war, georgian government sends a lot of disinformation to the western media saying for example russian troops entering town of Gori after agreeing to ceasefire which actually was denied not only by Russian government but also my georgian troops. Many things involved in this conflict, west vs east, nato expanding its influence, cold war mentality of the people, russophobia, a lot of politics and other #. BUT when you take all those things off and get down to the core of the conflict you will find that Saakashvili was violating international laws (and yet he says he has a democratic country), but he killed INNOCENT civilians, 2000 of them, isn't just that enough to question the whole thing and see which is black and which is white? By the fact that the west supporting Georgia makes them look horrible and heartless, supporting the tyrant just because of the politics, ignoring the human loss, the lives that were killed...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


A claim equals reality...

unless it is a claim ny the U.S. then it is complete B.S.