Georgian troops burn South Ossetian refugees alive

reply to post by vor78


I approached it from neutral standpoint. I know about the previous problems with Pravda. I figured if it was true, other sources would surface, which appears to be happening if you'll read all the posts.

pravda is about as reliable as jpost or debka - they sometimes get it right , but most of teh time its crap.


but , more and more sources are coming out , all with different video`s showing the Georgian Genocide.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I know. I was not aiming that at you, but at a couple of others who were jumping all over another poster for pointing out the problems with the original source. Like you, I also acknowledge that it may well be happening.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

man, that propaganda will come from all sides, but it's no bad thing that russia and the west are producing opposite propaganda, at least this way there's a chance we might find the truth somewhere in the middle.

I agree. But wouldn't it be heart breaking if that weren't the case, and the news agencies on either side were 'spinning a tale' for us to consume?

I hope not.

First of all, Georgia attacked South Osetia, a Georgian territory of course, but with people majority of whom do not wand to be Georgians. They clear prefer Russia over Georgia as a sovereign country.
But these news sound as propaganda. Georgians shelled Tshinvali and probably a lot of villages but 1400 dead reported within first 12 hours? In the war zone with Georgian troops and Osetian troops and who knows what? Suspiciously round number. Then 2000. Another round number. Any person killed and family misplaced and separated is tragedy, and in such a war between ethnic factions with political heating by superpowers a lot of such things probably happened.
However:
A) Russians in Tshinvalli, and yet photos of "completely destroyed" city i did not see. Several buildings in ruins with completely normal roads ,where tanks being fighting? Where pictures of this devastation?
I remember in Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Janin how many lies were spread, about city in ruins and scores of dead. In the small area where fightings took place with several houses was in ruins, rest - vast majority of the city - was intact. And numbers were totally different then claimed at first. Still, there were civilian deaths.
B) Numbers of dead - who counted them? If hospitals - then bodies are there or in the vicinity. If army - then where are dead? 2000 dead out of 70000 is huge number and there are a lot of ethnic Georgians in these 70000 total population.
C) Finally what looks suspicious is amount of Russian involvement and their attempt to make it more and more similar to Balkans. Kosovo - South Osetia and similar treatment. Ethnic cleansing and Miloshevic - Ethnic cleansing and Saakashvili. It is like they say - you can, so we can. And in this attitude of revenge truth is mere details.
D) In Chechnia Russia did the things they say Georgians did, to anyone - Russians,Chechens,civilians,terrorists; in much greater numbers then now and Putin was all for it. Now he is hurting for innocent? Just politics. And thats why i think it is mainly propaganda.

Georgian leaders started it, and they are going not only to pay the price for their actions and possible crimes, but for Russian political ambitions. South Osetians will pay the same price.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]

The Russian Foreign Minister says America will be held accountable for the actions of their proxy government.

Let's hope he is just joking and pretend it's all not real. That's what I do.

any chance of a link to that story?

reply to post by TruthTellist



Probably won't do much . Maybe just trade their oil in euro's or ruble's away from the dollar ... maybe start using use the pipelines as political leverage , swing a few nations to their way of thinking. Sell a bit of it's dollar reserve off ..

Nothing drastic.

This story brings to mind another question:

Anyone seen any stories on the US Administration anywhere condemning Georgia for its slaughtering of South Ossetians?

I don't think they can do that. Be against the official line of backing Georgia . Why there is so little on your news. You won't be seeing any bombed citys or refugees and saying Georgia did it . It'll start people asking why the Govn't isn't condemning it.

If it were the case that the russians had bombed that city . You'd be seeing a media onslaught of the like of the lead up to the Iraq war.

This humanitarian/ spread democracy and freedom slant, it's just used as an excuse for resource /political gain really when it can be applied. When it can't be, it's ignored .

Just heard on the news , the EU are now promising aid for the refugees, so not quite ignored to the same extent there, seems .



[edit on 11-8-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Anyone seen any stories on the US Administration anywhere condemning Georgia for its slaughtering of South Ossetians?

I wish someone would show me where anyone in this administration is telling it like it is, because this is typical of what I am seeing:

Video: President Bush Condemns Russian Aggression

[edit on 11-8-2008 by TrueAmerican]

Who needs propaganda?

Isn't it bad enough that the Georgians murdered over a thousand civilians by shelling Tshinvale?


The shelling of Tshinvale WAS why the Russians attacked the Georgian military.

Georgia needs to answer for this. It was why the military conflict raged.


What would you do if you were Russia?
"So, Georgia is shelling an entire city, trying to kill thousands of civilians... I am going to (insert action here)."

How would you finish that?

[edit on 11-8-2008 by johnsky]

reply to post by johnsky


Any self-respecting Russian leader would have done the same thing. What bothers me though is not only the needless loss of life, but the way the western media is trying to spin this. Seems to be NWO plans being put into action. Hope someone is keeping a close eye on government fugitives into hideaways. That's when I'll get really worried.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
What bothers me though is not only the needless loss of life, but the way the western media is trying to spin this.

I quite agree! Been watching tons of media lately, and what comes out in the West in incredibly lopsided. That's just evil.

This article is absolutely unreliable and a waste of time to even consider.

To remind everyone, or inform you for the first time, the Russian "peacekeepers" and the South Ossetians have been forcing Georgians to leave the region. How would you like to be forced to leave your home?

South Ossetia is a hotbed of criminal activity and smuggling that is impossible to control due to these "peacekeepers."

Remember, there are always two sides to every story.

Russia Today featured footage of people, and their translated what they said as what you claim is stated in the article. Boys got shot, children and women got shot, a church got burned down with refugees inside. Grenades are being thrown inside cellars.

One woman claimed that georgians tried to flood the basement that they were hiding in.

Etc. etc.


streaming.visionip.tv...

Live streaming.

I cannot guarantee that it will appear again because the news is quite old, however accounts of Georgians doing awful stuff to Ossetians are appearing everywhere.

Whether that source is usually a bunch of nonsense or not, they are by *far* not the only ones that have featured footage where those (almost) EXACT things are being said.

"Another woman told Putin that she had seen a Georgian tank running over an elderly Ossetian woman who was trying to save two children."

The way the woman that was shown on Russia Today said it was like "There was a woman, she was trying to run away with two children, there was a Georgian tank behind her, it ran over them." followed by crying of the woman that just mentioned that.

Do what you want with it, but I can confirm that I have seen people on footage that supposedly said those things.

[edit on 11/8/08 by -0mega-]

First of all I'd like to say that I am far from being a Russian supporter - on the contrary! I would not shed a tear if they lost their influence in the area, etc. However, I am amazed now to see how western media can be just a as biased, maipulative and "propagandistic" as the Russian media - towards this conflict!

I was watching these days news on BBC UK, Sky News UK, CNN international, Canal 24 Horas (Spanish), France 24, Al Jazeera English, Russia Today, and a couple of Romanian news channels - and I didn't do it because I "loooove" watching news (!) - but because it is just ubelievable how none of them seem to make the slightest effort to at least "seem" objective! To try to get a little closer to the truth!

On the western channels you won't see a single refugee from S. Osetia! They won't show a single building destroyed there - none of the dead bodies lying on the side of the road there! You only see the Georgian victims, the Goergian destroyed buildings, etc. On Russia Today pretty much exactly the opposite! But to my dismay, it feels like I saw more of "the other side's story" on Russia Today than on most of the western media channels - which I find unbelievable!! (of course, commented as from their point of view)

On the other hand if Russia Today distorts news it is much more understandable than if Sky UK do it! Russia Today represents a part implicated directly in the conflict!

Still to my amazement, on Russia Today I saw discussed (even if from their own point of view) the "western theory" that this was a fight for control of oil access! They showed the accusations towards Russia coming from the UN security council - the American ambassador - along with what their ambassador said. They showed some of the Georgian president's "speeches", etc

Now, for example, how many of the western channels showed the French Foreign Minister's reaction after the encounter with some of the refugees from S. Osetia? I didn't see that anywere! No, that must be "hidden away" because a spontaneous empathic reaction from a western diplomat towards the Osetian refugees cannot be shown! It's not in west's interest! I heard him say: "They don't understand why they were bombed in the middle of the night ... which I believe it is true ..." Did you see that on CNN? On Sky? On BBC? I didn't, you can only see Mr. Saakashvili there ...

Since when has western media become just as "dirty" as the Russian propaganda?

Edit: the French Minister's quote, corrected.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by zamolxis]

As a collector of war & death videos, I'll be sure to keep an eye open if there is any footage of this. I'd imagine there would be some kind of evidence towards this claim. We shall see.

Good find though, wouldn't be surprised if it were true. Our species is so destructive and twisted.

Infact, here's some footage from the conflict:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11-8-2008 by GorehoundLarry]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by GorehoundLarry]

Well, you have to wonder what kind of incident might cause Russia to react with such force. Usually it takes something pretty substantial. As if all those dying weren't enough, truth to an incident like this (see title of OP) adds such insult to injury, that I can understand Putin's fury.

What I haven't seen yet is any statistics on whether those civilians killed in S.O. were mostly (or worse all) ethnic Ossetians as opposed to ethnic Georgians. If it truly is an ethnic cleansing as accused, those numbers might bear some weight.

If Georgia struck at random sheerly over the province's desire to be autonomous, those numbers should be around 66% to 30% respectively, according to this chart of ethnic population distribution in South Ossetia posted at Wiki. But those will probably be tough figures to find. If Putin's accusations of ethnic cleansing stand those figures might be more like 95% or higher.

But after watching these two videos on Youtube from Democracy Now interviewing retired US Airforce Col. Sam Gardiner on the use of tactical nukes against NATO forces written into Russian doctrine, the gravity of this situation becomes serious indeed.

Part 1:


Part 2: