People are Fools to believe so strongly into PSYCHOLOGY!

Mommy issues. That could explain alot. I never liked those weekly enemas. I still get a pucker factor everytime I see a hose. 'Hold it, hold it.'
She was a strange Mommy. But I loved her. I was going to edit this out. But my point is everyone has a freak in them somewhere.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

Don't follow the psychologist..
What they do is not right and why do they have the right to say ''You are mentally ill'' Why?

People are NOT ill, they are just different and that is why they might act differently than you ... it's called being different not ''mentally ill''.

If I ever see someone doing something that I could call ''weird'' or whatever the person do... there is ALWAYS a motivation/thought going on in the person's head and I think that NOBODY can judge ANYBODY on the way they act, because the way they act is the way they think...If I were that person and if I had all the person's life experiences in my skin , I might act the same way as this person does...

Think about it... Whatever you do, there will always be someone on the earth ready to judge you because the things that you do might not always be the things that other people do but doing something or thinking in a DIFFERENT way is NOT a crime.. it's just the life....

I believe that the ''psychology'' topic is all BS... How can someone say that you are .. that and that when they are NOT in your head. All they think is that if you are not what they consider ''Normal'' then you need to consult a doctor or whatever BS he'll send you to....

What is being ''Normal'' after all? Are we not all UNIQUE after all? We are all born on a planet called Earth and we all growed up some people in different countries ... how can we all be ''Normal'' if we ALL have different life experiences ... I mean NOBODY on this planet but YOU have the life you have... You do what you want to do.. you are all Unique and you all have the right to believe in everything you want ... nobody can judge you on how you think, that person is NOT in your head, he has NOT lived your life as you did, he never saw what you saw , he never thought like you do, he never loved EVERYTHING you loved, NOBODY can't be EXACTLY like you... so what is being ''Normal'' we are ALL different and being ''Normal'' is being what our country LEADERS want US to be... just be yourself, do what you want and assume your moves and your thoughts but be yourself please, don't listen to this Psychology Crap, don't take the drugs they are trying to sell to you... it's such a poison.. it's such a waste of money and time... psychology is NOT a science... well actually.. if trying to make everybody like the governement want them to be is a science.. then what the heck is going on... Stop being sheeps and start thinking... what is psychology after all.. it's all crap...

Be yourself and don't judge others for what you think they are because you are not GOD, you can't judge when you don't know exactly what is going on in their heads..!

Peace

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...Honestly people...research the freaking field before calling it fake and a scam. Don't just look at the stereotype and decide that everyone in the field is like that.

Ok, this isn't meant to denigrate your choice of profession, but I have to ask.

Do you know what the cure rate is for people going to psychologists/psychiatrists is compared to people who don't have any treatment? The studies I have seen say the numbers are almost the same.

While psychologists/psychiatrists/sociologists can tell us what an aggregate of people can/will/may do, they cannot predict with any accuracy what any SPECIFIC individual will do. Kind of like insurance guys (forget what they are called) that can tell you how many 35-40 year old white males in NYC are going to die in traffic accidents this year, but they can't tell you WHICH ONES are going to.

The main problem with psychology/sociology/psychiatry is what someone pointed out earlier. They do not take into account that people also have souls, and most discount anything spiritual.

Ironically enough (to mainstream psychs), the ones that DO incorporate spiritual beliefs, faith, and realize that some problems are rooted in the spiritual realm have higher cure rates than those that don't. Bet your professors didn't tell you that!

From somone who has had M.P.D. or dissociated identity disorder and is now fully integrated (me) believe me the science of the mind is very real.

I found out during my therapy just how mechanical like the mind really is.

before you thrash science, maybe you should understand what it is in definition.

science is knowledge gained through study. Investigation through method.

Psychology is a method of investigation....

Lots of comparisons of "who is to say if I lived that life I would think just the same"

chances are you may or may not, examples that is not the case are families with as an example 3 children 1 "gay", or families who have no issues and have 4 children, 1 later arrested for murder.

The brain is not hard wired if it were the world would run like a bunch of ants, however its not the case. We have a world of diversity and thus people who manipulate each other into choices. The ability to manipulate peoples choices is a fact that a psychological thought process happens and inevitably enables psychology as a verifiable science.

Psychology is completely accurate and legit. Some of you may say that the results are not always positive, but this is not because of the psychology itself. As an example, say a kid was scared that the 'boogie man' was going to get him. I could tell him why humans are afraid of the unknown, and therefor afraid of the dark, and I could explain to him the complexities of fear, however it most likely won't change his fear. Why? Because people aren't able to change easily. Anything that exists deep in one's own mind is especially difficult to change. Psychology is an understanding of the mind, even so, it is not an easy task to change the mind.

Compassion, love and empathy is all you really need to know in this lifetime. There are some who have been so abused.

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by Jenna

 

If I climb a tree and I pick an apple, while you and five others are below, and then I drop the apple from the tree branch, all of you, (assuming you all have sight), will see that apple fall. It's observable by all.

If I am sitting in a chair, and the five of you are watching me, and I start to eat my own poop, you'll all see me eat poop but none of you will see the thought processes that are behind that illogical action.

Psychologists don't agree. Psychology is a scam. Psychology is a baised matter of personalize opoion based within the understandings created within each observer of the action.

If 5 see the apple fall 5 can know gravity exists.
If 5 see poop being eaten there will be 5 seperate reasonings of why that action happened.

Psychology isn't a science.

No One can Observe another's thought processes.

You're correct, by looking at that person, you have no idea what they are thinking. This is not psychology, this is guessing. Psychology, however, gets into that persons head by asking questions concerning their life. Once you see the whole picture, you can see another's thought process. This is because nothing is random. No matter what you do, it is not random, it is based on something in your head. Humans are an equation. Psychology is the study to understand that equation.

I have to agree with other posters above. Psychology is the study of the mind and tries to determine how experiences can affect the way we think. One of the most obvious examples of how psychology works is when an animal is conditioned to do a certain thing, whether it is logical or not....for a reward or to avoid unwanted stimuli. This is what one refers to as positive and negative reinforcement. Of course, not everything in a person's behavior is determined only through experience since we have our own unique genetic make up.

A world without psychology is a bad place. Without psychology America and England would never have understood that using fellow human beings as slaves just because of the color of their skin was a terrible thing to do. Without psychology all you had was a narrow minded religious mentality.

Might as well join the West borough baptist church and start picketing decapitated boys funerals. God knows they could all use a psych.

I wish my legs would obey my mind these days. It's all I can do to take my two dogs a block down the street and back. All the psychotherapy in the world will not fix them. Toast is blackened and best with butter. Off topic. I used to love our five mile walks. I used to be able to walk the soles off my shoes. I'd rather of hand my hand chopped off than my legs taken away.
[edit on 8/12/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 8/12/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 8/12/2008 by jpm1602]

I picked up a new respected foe. Jayesbel. Lucky me. Just when I was thinking no one cared. Foe away Jay. I have special powers. Tell you about them later. How could I possibly foe someone off? sigh.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by jpm1602]

To cover the ground I would like this argument will require two posts. Hopefully there will be those willing to take the time to see things from my side of the fence, and with luck what you see will be of benefit to you.

First off, if we're going to be arguing over whether psychology is a science or not, let's define science. The way I see science is explained very well in Ken Wilber's "The Marriage of Sense and Soul", a very informative read on the integration of science and religion. To stay on topic I will briefly define science from this point of view. (Broad) science (separate from narrow science, which discredits all apart from the material realm) should be conducted following the "three strands of all valid knowing" (from the novel);

1. Instrumental injunction. This is an actual practice, an exemplar, a paradigm, an experiment, an ordinance. It is always of the form "If you want to know this, do this."

2. Direct apprehension. This is an immediate experience of the domain brought forth by the injunction, that is, a direct experience or apprehension of data (even if the data is apprehended). William James pointed out that one of the meanings of "data" is direct and immediate experience, and science anchors all of its concrete assertions in such data.

3. Communal confirmation (or rejection). This is a checking of the results - the data, the evidence - with others who have adequately completed the injunctive and apprehensive strands.

So it is obvious that once broad science is differentiated from narrow science that many doors are opened. What lies behind those doors is soon to be discovered. Now, for my argument to hit home it is essential to have a small understanding of Ken Wilber's idea of the "four quadrants", so for those of you are or ignorant on the subject I will redirect you to wikipedia.22
for a brief summary. Obvious as it sounds, there is an interior to the universe (and it's consistuents) as is there is an exterior. Exteriors can be observed in the natural world, ex. I can see you frown. Interiors however, can only be interpreted, from interaction, ex. I ask you how you are feeling, you tell me you are sad.

Now, obviously how am I to know you are telling me the truth? Perception of body language, the context of your statement, and other factors surrounding the situation are all tools in this problem. Can we ever be certain? No. Are we ever certain, with anything? No. We merely make observations of our world, and if enough people agree with us, then it becomes "fact".

Obviously, I must disagree with anyone who thinks psychology is not a science. Although, it matters not to me what anyone thinks psychology is or isn't. I must disagree even more with anyone who thinks psychology does no good for us. We know more about our world than we do about ourselves. If only we focused on both aspects of the universe, interiors and exteriors, yin and yang, it is my belief we would have a much more holistic approach to life in general, and accompanied with that, a wider array of knowledge. If I knew how my thought processes worked I would tweak them to work more efficiently, effectively re-programming my brain circuitry. Instead, the vast majority of us tend to accept the way our brains work as they are, oblivious to the dormant power inside every human brain.

As a common example I will draw your attention to the "wandering mind" phenomenon; People who can read, listen to music, see something right before their eyes, and yet not remember the slightest thing about what they just witnessed. I admit to being ignorant on the subject, so this may be what is known as ADD, but that is just a label, trivial for our discussion. This wandering of the mind is being found in a very large amount of people in western cultures. I believe this is because of how fast paced and flashy our society is. You watch a television and are bombared with constantly changing advertisements and programs that sometimes move so quickly you wonder if a coherent plot exists. You drive in a car and watch countless objects pass through your field of vision in a remarkably small amount of time, unable to fully process everything that goes by. This forces our mind to scatter around, thinking of certain things for a short time, then finding moving around aimlessly, often achieveing very little. It is my belief that if we were to alleviate this disease, and focus on one thing at a time, our minds would be capable of much more than their present state. Focus allows us to see things in their purest form, and it seems we are unacquainted with such a formidable ally.

I ask you to kindly forgive my projected plan of two posts. I feel however, the following words are a nice addition.

As a final note I will critique some of Incarnated's previous statements.

"Firstly, I've been to college."
Congratulations. This doesn't strengthen your argument, nor does it make you any more credible than anyone else. If a college education equated to intelligence, well firstly, you would be a lot more intelligent, and secondly the world wouldn't be full of the sickening amount of idiocy it is in the midst of suffering.

"Most psychology majors..."
I would like to see your data for any speculation on what most psychology majors do or don't. I would assume you are making this argument based on people you have met, and I am going to further assume that this would create a petty sample size incapable of allowing you to rightly formulate such conclusions. Should you have conducted a survey or some other means of communicating with a large number of psychology majors feel free to prove me wrong and direct me to your evidence.

"Psychology isn't a science. Sciences require observations."
"In the past, quacks like these, only about 200 years ago, would drill holes in people's heads to 'let the demons out'."
Interesting, psychology isn't a science because it doesn't require observations. And yet psychologists 200 years ago observed a patient being inhabited by demons. Most likely an incorrect observation, but an observation nonetheless wouldn't you say?

"If 5 see the apple fall 5 can know gravity exists."
Well if five psychotics see a pink elephant flying in the sky I guess they can know that pink elephants exist as well, right?

"You can not deeply observe to understand what's going on in another persons head."
Throughout history the amount of things you "can not" do has become smaller and smaller, showing how much we can do, and how little we truly know of our potential.

"If you believe that you can open your self up like that to a stranger maybe you need psychotherapy."
How can you expect a good diagnosis if you provide incorrect data. If you think lying is something to be practiced with all strangers, maybe you need psychotherapy.

"They'd have to first spend a lifetime working out their own personalized issues before being able to truly be any use to others."
I think it would do you well to read up on the life and writings of CG Jung, who for the duration of his life reflected on his inner self, seeking a better understanding of himself. Working with a psychologist who isn't in an ongoing study of themselves is like hiring a figure skater to perform a triple bypass surgery.

"Astronomy is a science but it can't be called Astrology because that's consider hogwash."
War is primitive, childish, and foolish. There's people who would call that statement hogwash. Their belief doesn't make mine hogwash.

"To you it might 'sound' like that, but to me I know you just want to assume you understand."
You seem to have a pretty strong intuition if you can make such a bold statement. It could be you have a strong understanding of human psychology, especially reading people's mindsets through their internet communication. I'm going for neither. I'm going for you're a cocky, over-confident, ignorant human being in serious need of help.

I recommend re-evaluating what you think you know. Reflect long and hard.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
You're correct, by looking at that person, you have no idea what they are thinking. This is not psychology, this is guessing. Psychology, however, gets into that persons head by asking questions concerning their life. Once you see the whole picture, you can see another's thought process. This is because nothing is random. No matter what you do, it is not random, it is based on something in your head. Humans are an equation. Psychology is the study to understand that equation.

The human brain, both organically and electronical functioning is a topic WELL outside Human understanding now. Quite like it was not 200 years ago when they were drilling holes in the heads to let the demons out. They are still drilling holes in heads to let demons out but they do this with medication.

If you were to go into the future some 200 years or so it would be clearly understood that this is the barbaric age where they're still drilling holes to release the demons contained within.

Until better understandings are gained with the function (electrical) and the makeup (matter and organics) of the brain, anyone who thinks psychology is a truthful science is a fool following fools.

reply to post by Incarnated


How small minded? You couldn't be more wrong..

Wrong in that most psychology majors study psychology because they believe there's something wrong with their own heads and because they want to believe there is something wrong with everyone elses head..

I can wholeheartedly and genuinely say that this is NOT the reason I'll be studying psychology next year and is genuinely not the reason why so many other people i know study psychology. And i doubt you, being so biased on the subject, could lump everybody else into this one categorical justification.

Personally, I want to understand why people think what they think and i'll do it by means of psychology - whether it's through objectively observing or getting a grasp of a persons essence and thinking patterns subjectively, and i couldn't care less if you wanted to define it as a "science" or not.
It's hardly about curing all the "crazies" out there or finding them just for the sake of it. Rather, it has everything to do with aiding the people around you to make sense of their reality, to try and help them gain perspective - and that's people of all mental stabilities.

Define it how you like but it's obvious that you have no idea. But that was your own clearly deluded "personal assumption" of one group of people.
Fairly hypocritical of you, don't you think? To actually suggest that psychologists can only use "personal assumptions" to determine the reason behind another person's behaviour when that's exactly what you're doing?? Hmmmmmm...

[edit on 12/8/08 by pretty_vacant]

reply to post by Incarnated


I beg to differ. As a psychology major, I can attest, I do not believe there is something wrong with any body's heads, especially my own. The problems lie in their beliefs of the world around them and the erroneous actions they take without thinking through the consequences. If psychology is not a science, it will be when I get through with it.

I have come forward to shake the world to it's very core. I am starting with the mind because that is where the problem lives. The mind is not the problem, it is just a host to carry the disease of ignorance and indifference. Both very contagious and very dangerous.

reply to post by peggy m


Word.

Originally posted by peggy m
I beg to differ. As a psychology major, I can attest, I do not believe there is something wrong with any body's heads, especially my own. The problems lie in their beliefs of the world around them and the erroneous actions they take without thinking through the consequences. If psychology is not a science, it will be when I get through with it.

I have come forward to shake the world to it's very core. I am starting with the mind because that is where the problem lives. The mind is not the problem, it is just a host to carry the disease of ignorance and indifference. Both very contagious and very dangerous.

I'm oscillating between being inspired by this, and very scared.

There's something very worrisome about an agenda, however altruistic, based on such unshakable convictions.

Best of luck in your studies and practice, and please, 'shake the world' with care, compassion, and understanding.