People are Fools to believe so strongly into PSYCHOLOGY!

Originally posted by iiinvision
reply to post by Incarnated

 

Your statement that people are fools for believing so strongly into psychology is absolutely correct, and absolutely incorrect at the very same time.

AH! And it is so nice to see someone that can Actually make an unbiased observation! What you have said is true and rightly so as it is written thus. It is written Thusly to prove the point of personalized pecptual biased peceptions in the general understanding of OBSERVATIONS.

My question is why it too a day and several negitivly pecieved observations to realize it?

I mean I did spell it out saying I both suported and refused psychological understandings.

Sounds like you don't know anything about psychology.

There are different psychological schools of thought. But in general, the mind is a very complex thing, and what you get from a person is limited by what he can tell you. So you can't quite test for something, but you can determine a lot. Just because you're too slow, or didn't care enough to understand it doesn't mean that it isn't useful. Psychotherapy is extremely useful in treating mental problems and treating mental pain.

But.

There's no such thing as a cure, because in this context, there isn't a "disease" (barring major problems like schizophrenia and major biochemical issues). "Normality" is a range of mental qualities, and "abnormality" simply means something outside this box. The goal of the psychologist or psychotherapist is to treat those who are experiencing mental anguish and alleviate this emotional pain and improve mental health.

Freud was great at psychology. You can't dispute that. You can dispute some of his key theories, but he was indeed skilled at laying the foundation for psychoanalysis.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Sounds like you don't know anything about psychology.

There are different psychological schools of thought.

How many schools of thought are there in geology? In phyisics? In Astronomy?

Astronomy is a science but it can't be called Astrology because that's consider hogwash.

Just like psychology is hogwash, I'm just saying the name would better be served as changed into something like psyhoilophy.

To you it might "sound" like that, but to me I know you just want to assume you understand.

One of the problems that I see with psychology is the vast number of variables in any human situation. Even if many of the variables are known, there will be many that cannot, or are not known, in any given situation. In chemistry, an experiment can be conducted, with all of the pertinent variables controlled, that is, the elements involved, the temperature, the pressure, etc. Given the same values for each variable that contributes to a chemical reaction, the same results can be predicted over and over again.
What many posters have related, are cases where different psychologists have come up with conflicting diagnoses for the "same" person or problem. Those diagnoses are given without possibly knowing every variable value. The more that is known, the greater the chance that the diagnoses are pertinent. To be completely honest, psychologists should inform the patient that their diagnosis is a best "guess".
I don't believe that psychology is useless, but it IS still in the Dark Ages, compared to other disciplines. There certainly are cases, where psychologists have been able to help patients, but there are other cases, where they have a long way to go, in developing a complete and effective treatment. An example is Borderline Personality Disorder. Although those with BPD are quickly identified, by common characteristics, a fully effective treatment has not been found. There are treatments that seem to lessen the traits of BPD; however, in many cases, such treatments are totally ineffective. There are currently longitudinal studies to track various treatments and correlated subsequent behavior. Such studies hopefully will advance the science (yes, science) of psychology.
I know that does not help those that are suffering, but again, psychology has a long way to go. We have seen fantastic advances in the physical sciences in the last century, and try to compare that with the lack of equivalent advances in the human sciences, and thus, feel short-changed. Again, the human mind, and human behavior have so many variables, that such advances are slow and complex.
I am not defending psychology, but rather trying to explain why so many people rightly feel short-changed.
This is my view of psychology, a view from a physical scientist.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


The very nature of psychology address the shapeless formless "iceburg under the waters" of the Unconscious mind. Fools however believe they know the shape and size of that! Meanwhile they have twiches and stammers and don't know the origin of their own filth! Foolishness!

Psychology is a scam!

reply to post by Incarnated


Psychology is about observing human behavior, and figuring out what affects human behavior.

For example: The concepts of social proof and pre-selection prove to be true most of the time.

Social proof states that if a lot of people are doing something, or like something, then other people will be more likely to approve of it and do it.

In other words, If I see a lot of other people doing something and liking it, then I will be more likely to want to do it cause it must be good since a lot of people are doing it.

Perfect example is teenagers and peer pressure.

Pre-selection is almost the same thing. I like the example of women and dating. When a women sees a man with another women, she will probably find him more attractive because she sees that he has already been pre-approved. "If an attractive woman is with him, then there MUST be something GOOD about him. Otherwise he wouldn't have an attractive woman with him." That is a common thought pattern.

That's why you always hear men telling stories of more women wanting them when they're already in a relationship, and when they're not in one they can't seem to get anything.


edit: this also explains why doing things that would have gotten you ostracized 70 years ago are perfectly acceptable today.

Example: sex before marriage or having children out of wedlock. Completely looked down upon only 70 years ago, but it's a completely normal thing today. Why? Because a lot of people are doing it, so it must be okay. Right?

[edit on 11-8-2008 by thehumbleone]

reply to post by Incarnated

The very nature of psychology address the shapeless formless "iceburg under the waters" of the Unconscious mind. Fools however believe they know the shape and size of that!

I believe that is what I said in more traditional scientific terms. However, I don't believe it is a scam. Rather, I believe that there is a lot more research and work to do, before it becomes as effective as other disciplines. Does that mean that there are no scam artists as psychologists. Of course not> I'm sure there are, but the discipline as a whole has a long journey ahead of them. Remember, there are people that they have been able to help.
I compare the current state of psychology to the state of physical sciences in the mid 1800's. When trains became a common method of transportation in the US in the 1800's, scientists declared that they should never go more than 60 miles per hour, because if they did, all of the air would be sucked out of the trains, and passengers would suffocate. Now, that doesn't mean that those scientists were scam artists. They just didn't have enough knowledge to realize how wrong they were. Let's reserve the word "scam" for those that truly deserve it. All you have to do is turn on the one-eyed monster and look at the late night commercials to see the true definition of scam.

It would be the greatest day indeed if many in our political so-called "leadership" could be formally, very publicly diagnosed as pathological, pathocratic, psychopathic, neurotic, pathetic etc. Bushwhacker and Insaney alone are the most obvious textbook wackjobs in (at least) American history... Here's a most wonderful article on the subject titled TWILIGHT OF THE PSYCHOPATHS by Dr. Kevin Barrett (or Google later if link doesn't work, it's loading very slowly):

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Sure, my new name sounds crazy (am also Lightworth), but I'm the harmless, fun kind of goofball...

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Pooberstinkus McDuck]

There seems to be some misunderstandings here about psychology.

Firstly if you wish to debunk or criticize psychology because of Dr Sigmund Freud then you would be misinformed firstly because he wasn’t a psychologist. He was a medical doctor in fact a neurologist. Also his work was being assembled in the late 1800’s, over 100 years ago. During that time his work into neurology and psychosis was revolutionary.


Someone criticized Psychology 200 years ago for drilling holes in peoples heads for getting rid of the demons? Psychology is a relatively new science compared to the classic ones. I do recall this type of methodology being used but it wouldn’t have been a psychologist per say because this profession simply didn’t exist then. I would say it probably would have been a mixture of religion and medicine. But hey it was 200 years ago and we all know that doctors still drill holes in peoples heads today.


Secondly Psychology is a multidisciplinary science which encompasses many different scientific departments including, medicince, biology, neurology, physiology, physics, sociology and lots… lots more. But people seem to be concentrating on the theraputic and counseling aspects of it. So lets look at that.

There are countless forms of psychotherapy and counseling methodologies. People seem to think if they can debunk psychoanalysis they have somehow debunked the whole of psychology. There are many different forms of psychoanalysis if you think you have read a few theories or pages of Freud and call it a load of BS then good for you and I respect your research abilities…….

Generally when you are treating a person regardless of the theoretical background you have you are usually backed by a team, depending on the issue/s of course. You may have a social worker, psychiatrist, general practitioner and a psychologist helping the individual on many levels including emotional- psychological issues, psychopharmacology issues, general heath issues, family/marital issues, social skills etc.

The psychologist depending on what was asked to be done but lets just say life issues and the individual has come in voluntarily.

This person may come in and say that he/she is just not happy at the moment and she/he doesn’t like feeling this way.

(Some people might think on this thread you have to be running around naked eating your own excrement before you need to go and seek a mental health professional)

At the moment this person is not feeling good and doesn’t seem to know why. Generally people are very “hardy” and have enough resources to come out of a “rut” but if they have no idea why they are not feeling good its hard to over come them.

So “generally” the mental health professional would mostly listen and use several techniques to open up new feelings from “not feeling good” to feeling guilty, stressed, angry, lost, lonely etc. Usually with issues there are a jumble of emotions for the individual and it can be hard to identify by oneself.

After this a mental health professional may ask the person to priorities those feeling into which ones hurt the most or a affecting ones life the most and explore those feeling a little more in-depth. Generally after exploring the feeling the issue will surface, for example not feeling worthwhile in the family or stressed about work or not feeling loved at home etc.

After this you would “generally” priorities the issues that had just surfaced once again to which ones are most hurtful or damaging etc and explore that first a little more.

You would probably then ask the individual what possible solutions there are to this issue, maybe introduce a few yourself and explore them all because a solution for one person may not be the right solution for the next.

With whatever solution the individual wanted to go for you would then talk about what resources that person has available to implement that solution.

So in the end not only has the individual found a solution that fits his/her lifestyle she/he has also learnt some problem solving skills in overcoming life’s bumps and kicks as well.

By the way people that was an extremely basic view of what might happen when being counseled by a mental health professional.

Its not easy and can get and usually does get extremely complicated.


Am I saying that psychology is perfect? Absolutely not. Is any science? Am I saying all mental health professionals are helpful? Absolutely not. But a lot are.

You can’t judge psychology by a few aspects or a few pages in your college schoolbook nor can you judge psychology by one therapist that you might have had or read about. You also can’t judge psychology by what we don’t know considering the magnitude of what we are studying although new discoveries are happening all the time.

Cheers

Hey everyone first post, VERY long time lurker (5+ years)

I just find this interesting in the first page that threadstarter, you claim to go to college and within posts spell out "conserned" and "percieved"

Sorry for the cheap shot there but it made me wonder of your age, and also, if you want to claim psychology as a scam then you have too much time to think and thus are indulged in psychology yourself. Ironic huh?

I find you're being very forceful with this belief with bad examples that can throw anyone of us readers in a different opinion (contradicting your 5 people seeing someone eat poop theory)

Nowhere did anyone, at least to my knowledge in history say psychology let you observe someones thought process, that's not very possible, however it does help to observe the behaviors and patterns of actions - therefor getting a better understanding of their thought process.

Again sorry for this seeming like a cheap shot but your statement is void to me and to say something is a scam that has helped thousands if not millions of people is inhuman.

reply to post by Incarnated


Well obviously you have had some buttons pushed regarding your association with mental health! There is a saying in recovery: "You are only as sick as your secrets!"

I, like anonymous, also work in the field (the recovery end) and always question really broad statements that portend something to be a fact when in actuality is just an angry opinion! We all have orifices just like we all have opinions. It is not unique and does not translate to fact!

But obviously you have "issues" and so we welcome you to dysfunctional society! Another words: what is new?

Psychology is one of those fields that will do away with your integrity. You will read this stuff and be forced to ingrain these abstract principles about why people do what they do, without ever having the chance to go out in the field and see and say with absolute certainty to yourself, that totally makes sense to me and I can totally relate to that from personal experience. You will be lieing to yourself by soaking in and making your own these ideas, because they are a General Education requirement to anybody choosing any major career fields.
Sociology has more common sense in it than Psychology.


The Illuminati intended it to be so.

I personally have found

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Pocky]

reply to post by Incarnated


i understand that psychology is not 100 percent accurate but psychology is not a scam your train of thought now is based on all the experiances of your life, if a psychologist were to anaylis these past experiances and correctly identify any problems then he could probebly accuratly tell youwa sate of mind ur in weatha it b stable or not, now to fully understand psychology you have to use the litlle percs of it mainly body language. once you can tell if sum1 is lying then you can understand psychology because our brainwaves are just reflecting our past lives just repeating over andover

Originally posted by thehumbleone
reply to post by Incarnated

 

For example: The concepts of social proof and pre-selection prove to be true most of the time.

I believe you and what you are saying. Thank you for your suport and proof that psychology is NOT a SCIENCE as anyone that knows science knows it is proveable 100% of the time.

YOU are RIGHT! Psychology is bull, it's a sudoscience!

Yes, psychology is a scientific discipline based on the observation of human behavior. It is not specifically the study of what exactly the mind is made of; that is only one part of psychology. That's like saying that medicine isn't a science because some of it relies on patient feedback.

What you're trying to say is that psychology isn't medicine. Medicine is objective because you can test for specific disorders and whatnot. It studies exactly what is wrong and how to treat it, objectively. Psychology, on the other hand, simply looks at human behavior and feedback and tries to interpret it in a way that makes sense. You just have a different sort of data set, which makes psychology a science that is more qualitative than quantitative.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by Incarnated



Technically you used psychology to diagnose your problem.

reply to post by Incarnated


i agree when you say that most phsycology students study it because they have there own phsycological problems.

i can relate to this as my sister has some personal phsycological problems and has started a course this year at university.

i think if you have strong mind power you will always beat phsycology. Those who are weak in the mind seem to have alot of problems in life

reply to post by Incarnated



I have nothing to offer but the facts. If that doesn't mean anything to a person, certainly opinions won't help.

The science and the facts have been quoted, people either except it or they close their minds from it and that is a choice you have to make for yourself.

Science is science, facts are facts.

Well, I hope to high heven that I'm not wasting all my money...being that Psychology is my Major and all.

Originally posted by IncarnatedI believe in basic psychological princables. However I've noted too many people take psychology too seriously.

What are the "Basic" Psychological Principles you believe in? Principles of Human Behavior? Principles of Mental Illnesses? Which ones specifically and why? Which ones you believe to be a conspriacy? Again, and why? I just want to better understand your point of view on this please

Most psychology majors study psychology because the believe there's something wrong with their own heads. They also want to believe there is something wrong with your head.

This is a pretty general statment to make - I am not a Psych Major because I believe there is something wrong with my brain. I'm not a Psych Major because I believe there is anything wrong with yours - I have never met you. I am a Psychology Major becuase I am interested in how our brains work.

In the past, quacks like these, only about 200 years ago, would drill holes in people's heads to "let the demons out".

True - and the procedures were botched and left many people brain-dead. Since then, there have been advances in technology - and brain surgery isn't as invasive or barbaric. Its fine and dandy to point out the mistakes made in History - however - those mistakes HAD to get made in order to get us where we are today.

We also used to nail people to crosses and chop off their heads as a form of Capital Punishment. How humane is that? We used to enslave Black People because we thought we were superior. 200 years from now, people are going to look back on our time and say "Wow, were they ever backwards."

Everywhere you look in History you will find something inhumane, backwards or what is considered today - to be Morally Wrong. To look at the field of Psychology as a whole and condemn it based on its elementary foundation is unfair. The field of Psychology just as any other field of study, as evolved over time.

The doctors would bloat their egos thinking they have understanding and the fools would follow along.

This is true for some - but not all - Doctors. Some doctors believe they know everything, and some are just happy to be learning. Making a general statement like this is unfair to the Doctors who DO actually care about People...they are not nearly high in numbers as the doctors who are just out to get the bill paid - but they do exist.

Pick anyone out on the street. Observe them and then write a report of what they were THINKING. Observations can only be made on objects and actions.

No one can know what anyone else is thinking - Psychology doesn't claim to know your thoughts. Psychology interprets your behavior.

You are wrong. Sorry to inform you of that, and I'm sorry you can not accept it. I have seen within the minds of many of those that would pratice psychology.

This is a bold Statement my friend, and to make it suggests that you have some sort of Authority on the subject of Psychology. Do you somehow know something the rest of us don't? My question is, HOW have you seen within the minds of people of practice Psychology? I'm having trouble with this statement....where is your proof - why aren't you famous yet for making a tremendous step in the History of Psychology as being the first person EVER to see into the mind of another Human Being?

Sudoscience of psychology.
1 sees mommy issues
2 sees psychological issues
3 sees chemical imbalances

No Science there!

Psychology is Subjective, no doubt about it. But, so is everything else in this world. The way you interpret my tone of voice, the way you see the color blue, and you're current views on Politics. EVERYTHING is subjective to everyone - it all comes down to interpretation.

For some reason, people have issues with things they don't understand...it doesnt make any of us wrong - it just makes us different.

- Carrot

Pick anyone out on the street. Observe them and then write a report of what they were THINKING. Observations can only be made on objects and actions.

You're thinking of psychics, not psychologists there >_>

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Tsuki-no-Hikari]