People are Fools to believe so strongly into PSYCHOLOGY!

I see your point. But if psycology does not adhere to being a science, niether does theoretical physics. Einstien has been proven wrong (to an extent), yet we still base our methodology of understanding on his efforts. Anyone willing to go public with a debunking of anything viewed as "fact" will enevitably be persecuted on a grand scale, being ripped apart on every level possible.

I have personally ran into moments when I lost faith in the the study of understanding the human brain. My son has been classified as ADHD, OCD, ODD, CD, Bipolar...so when they seem to run out of applicable labels, they pull "Bad Wiring of the Brain" right out of thier @$$3$. Right...

Regardless it is still a study of something, thus a science. No matter how fundamentally debunked it is on a massive scale, it still provides an avenue for employment through gossip and couch sitting.

Originally posted by Taledus
I see your point. But if psycology does not adhere to being a science, niether does theoretical physics. Einstien has been proven wrong (to an extent), yet we still base our methodology of understanding on his efforts. Anyone willing to go public with a debunking of anything viewed as "fact" will enevitably be persecuted on a grand scale, being ripped apart on every level possible.

I have personally ran into moments when I lost faith in the the study of understanding the human brain. My son has been classified as ADHD, OCD, ODD, CD, Bipolar...so when they seem to run out of applicable labels, they pull "Bad Wiring of the Brain" right out of thier @$$3$. Right...

Regardless it is still a study of something, thus a science. No matter how fundamentally debunked it is on a massive scale, it still provides an avenue for employment through gossip and couch sitting

.

Want to piss off a psychologist/therapist? Ask them how many people they have CURED. (Not treated, cured)

I tend to get a bit more dramatic than that...the last one that called to find out why we were not comming back, I told them I harnessed my chi then ran my hands over his head and fixed the bad wiring which was something she was incapable of. She asked how was that logically possible? I told her it is not in her world, only in the one in which logic has as much profound meaning of stupidity.

Y'all should do some research on neurofeedback.

Incarnated, you have a very narrow view of "psychology".
I will say that most of what is generally practic4ed today is darg ages stuff.
The latest and best is NLP and the various associated forms of it.
With this there is no laying on a couch telling your life story for years.
A good practicioner does have acute observation skills which are used to guide you to observe your own inner self; Your own thought processes.
It is not even necessary to detail your problem.

They have cured dyslexia by simply reprogramming the way the person processes information. You ar not likely a person who primarily processes visually. I will take a guess that you are a kinestheitc person. You process with your feelings/emotions.
You can learn to process visually which would greatly improve your spelling as well as your reading abilities.

For an overview of the many forms of workable "therapy" go here:

overview discussion

Cured! Now that is quite illuminating. Rofl. But I do remember the homeless teen in Cleveland who joined the Navy. His first few visits with the doc were spent lying on the floor behind the couch. He became a guard at Hollywood. He is now worth a few mil and a devoted family man. They made a movie of it.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by Taledus
I see your point. But if psycology does not adhere to being a science, niether does theoretical physics. Einstien has been proven wrong (to an extent), yet we still base our methodology of understanding on his efforts. Anyone willing to go public with a debunking of anything viewed as "fact" will enevitably be persecuted on a grand scale, being ripped apart on every level possible.

I have personally ran into moments when I lost faith in the the study of understanding the human brain. My son has been classified as ADHD, OCD, ODD, CD, Bipolar...so when they seem to run out of applicable labels, they pull "Bad Wiring of the Brain" right out of thier @$$3$. Right...

Regardless it is still a study of something, thus a science. No matter how fundamentally debunked it is on a massive scale, it still provides an avenue for employment through gossip and couch sitting

.

Want to piss off a psychologist/therapist? Ask them how many people they have CURED.

(Not treated, cured)

At last someone with the courage to post something like this.

Psychology in my opinion is the atheists way of trying to understand the soul. What a failure.

Two of my friends is studying psychology. I can't believe my eyes when I see what they are learning. What a load of crap.

BTW I'm talking about psychology taught at universities

reply to post by Incarnated


Everyone is entitled to their opinion and having a different opinion than mine doesn’t make you less of a person.

In an effort to enlighten someone who may be unwittingly misinformed. I submit to you that Psychology is a science, a pure science by virtue of definition.
There are those who “practice psychology” as a medical specialist.
Some practice well, some not so well.
Just because someone doesn’t like or agree with a diagnosis, which in fact is a medical opinion, doesn’t negate the science as a whole.

Sorry, but the argument against Psychology as a legitimate science, does not hold true to the facts. It is the same as saying that Medical science isn’t a science.

To take a position against a science because one does not understand the nature of that said science demonstrates a lack to willfully comprehend, if that subject is a fully developed functioning adult. Meaning that they choose not to understand.
Psychology taught in the public school system, USA, is approach systematically. The first year of Psychology is an introduction, explaining the definitions and some fundamentals of the science. What is applied rationalization, positive and negative reinforcement, learned behavior, innate, what is Developmental, Imprint, Egocentric, etc. The more complex variations and specific abnormal disorders are taught later to the more advance students with the most intense study in even later years of medical school. It is then that one would begin to fully understand the correct application and usage of terms as delusional, Schizophrenia, Paranoid Schizophrenia, MPD, OCD, MOCD, HDD, ADHD, AADD, etc.

They don't teach NLP and its derivitives at universities.
That old Freudian & Jungian psychology and the fuddy duddys who teach it are dying hard.

Unfortunately the field is being filled with a lot of wannabes. It is hard to find one who is truly experienced and successful.

definition of nlp

If you watch the Derren Brown videos you will see some feats that you might consider amazing. It will show you just how vulnerable our minds are. There are a lot of training coures for sales people. It pays to study it for self defence. Just watch several of these videos.Derren Brown

Psychotherapy reminds me of the pigeon poop and the Doors. But it has been an obvious success with some. For that I honor it. You know what really scares me? Opening myself up to another individual and showing them the horrors behind it.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

As a Psychology major, I thought that I should comment on this.

It annoys me when people with absolutely knowledge of the field whatsoever claim that we're all just a bunch of quacks making random guesses as to what is driving an individual's behavior.

"It's heavily based in personalize assumptions of understanding from a group of people"

So is Physics.

"that joined the psychological field due to the fact that they felt there was something wrong with themselves and those around them. "


Way to stereotype there. I entered the field because I'm interested in human behavior...simple as that.


"Psychology isn't a science. Sciences require observations. When someone looks at another person's abilities to percieve things those observations are biased and at best a guess. Psychology isn't a science. "

And we can make observations in Psychology. Or don't those thousands of laboratory experiments count? Psychology is full of repeatable experiments that you were just too lazy to research.


"No One can Observe another's thought processes. "

A person's thought processes are inferred through behavior. No one can see a black hole, but its existence is inferred through what's happening around it.


"Psychologists don't agree. Psychology is a scam. Psychology is a baised matter of personalize opoion based within the understandings created within each observer of the action. "

Again, Physics is the same. Physicists are constantly trying to disprove the theories of other physicists.

"If 5 see the apple fall 5 can know gravity exists.
If 5 see poop being eaten there will be 5 seperate reasonings of why that action happened."

Yeah, and even now physicists don't agree on the nature of gravity.

"Most psychology majors study psychology because the believe there's something wrong with their own heads. They also want to believe there is something wrong with your head. "

Come to my classes and ask everyone why they're studying psychology. They won't agree with you.




Honestly people...research the freaking field before calling it fake and a scam. Don't just look at the stereotype and decide that everyone in the field is like that.

Hell...five minutes on Wikipedia disproves your claims...

Research in experimental psychology is conducted in broad accord with the standards of the scientific method, encompassing both qualitative ethological and quantitative statistical modalities to generate and evaluate explanatory hypotheses with regard to psychological phenomena. Where research ethics and the state of development in a given research domain permits, investigation may be pursued by experimental protocols. Psychology tends to be eclectic, drawing on knowledge from other fields to help explain and understand psychological phenomena. Qualitative psychological research utilizes a broad spectrum of observational methods, including action research, ethography, exploratory statistics, structured interviews, and participant observation, to enable the gathering of rich information unattainable by classical experimentation. Research in humanistic psychology is more typically pursued via ethnographic, historical, and historiographic methods.

The testing of different aspects of psychological function is a significant area of contemporary psychology. Psychometric and statistical methods predominate, including various well-known standardized tests as well as those created ad hoc as the situation or experiment requires.

Academic psychologists may focus purely on research and psychological theory, aiming to further psychological understanding in a particular area, while other psychologists may work in applied psychology to deploy such knowledge for immediate and practical benefit. These approaches are not mutually exclusive, and many psychologists will be involved in both researching and applying psychology at some point during their career. Many clinical psychology programs aim to develop in practicing psychologists both knowledge of and experience with research and experimental methods, which they may interpret and employ as they treat individuals with psychological issues.

When an area of interest requires specific training and specialist knowledge, especially in applied areas, psychological associations normally establish a governing body to manage training requirements. Similarly, requirements may be laid down for university degrees in psychology, so that students acquire an adequate knowledge in a number of areas. Additionally, areas of practical psychology, where psychologists offer treatment to others, may require that psychologists be licensed by government regulatory bodies as well.

Experimental psychological research is conducted in a laboratory under controlled conditions. This method of research relies on the application of the scientific method to understand behavior. Experimenters use several types of measurements, including rate of response, reaction time, and various psychometric measurements. Experiments are designed to test specific hypotheses (deductive approach) or evaluate functional relationships (inductive approach). They are important for psychological research because they allow researchers to establish causal relationships between different aspects of behavior and the environment. Importantly, in an experiment, one or more variables of interest are controlled by the experimenter (independent variable) and another variable is measured in response to different conditions (dependent variable). (See also hypothesis testing.) Experiments are one of the primary research methodologies in many areas of psychology, particularly cognitive/psychonomics, mathematical psychology, psychophysiology and biological psychology/cognitive neuroscience.

As an example, suppose an experimenter wanted to answer the following question: does talking on a phone affect one's ability to stop quickly while driving? To answer this, the experimenter would want to show that a subject's stopping time is different when they are talking on a phone versus when they are not. If the experiment is properly conducted in a controlled environment and a difference between the two conditions is found, the experimenter would be able to show a causal relationship between phone use and stopping time. In addition to potential practical benefits, this type of experiment may have important theoretical results, such as helping to explain the processes that underlie attention in humans.

The Asch conformity experiments from the 1950s, a series of studies that starkly demonstrated the power of conformity on people's estimation of the length of lines (Asch, 1955). On over a third of the trials, participants conformed to the majority, even though the majority judgment was clearly wrong. Seventy-five percent of the participants conformed at least once during the experiment.

Leon Festinger's cognitive dissonance experiment, in which subjects were asked to perform a boring task. They were divided into 2 groups and given two different pay scales. At the end of the study, some participants were paid $1 to say that they enjoyed the task and another group of participants was paid $20 to say the same lie. The first group ($1) later reported liking the task better than the second group ($20). People justified the lie by changing their previously unfavorable attitudes about the task (Festinger & Carlsmith, 1959).

So...how is Psychology not an observational science?

reply to post by Incarnated


I don't think the conspiracy is psychology itself, but those who have 'DR' before their last and then write a book or have a TV show in which they sell psychology as a quick-fix to any problem.

Originally posted by Tsuki-no-Hikari
So...how is Psychology not an observational science?

Pick anyone out on the street. Observe them and then write a report of what they were THINKING. Observations can only be made on objects and actions.

My friends, if you want to be fools enought to believe anyone can Observe the thoughts of another through psychology, then I assure you, you'd also be arguing 200 years ago how the doctors knew what they were doing in drilling wholes in your family members heads to let the demons out. They had as much rubish backing them up as psychology does today.

If you want to be a fool, have at it.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Psychotherapy reminds me of the pigeon poop and the Doors. But it has been an obvious success with some. For that I honor it. You know what really scares me? Opening myself up to another individual and showing them the horrors behind it.

Absolutly! How can someone sit in some seat of judgement upon your thoughts and actions when they themselves are untested?

Your fear isn't abnormal. I'd say most to all people have that same issue. NOW! Understanding defence systems of the subconscious and unconscious minds how anyone can believe they'll let their guard down enough to be truthfully open to a stranger is beyond me. If you believe that you can open your self up like that to a stranger maybe you need psychotherapy.

reply to post by eaganthorn



You are wrong. Sorry to inform you of that, and I'm sorry you can not accept it. I have seen within the minds of many of those that would pratice psychology. It's a landscape of blockades, blackouts, blind spots and bogs. They'd have to first spend a lifetime working out their own personalized issues before being able to truly be any use to others.

Wash the log out your own eye before removing the speck from your brothers' eye.

Theorietically, I do enjoy psychology princables, but brother it's the microcosimed few that are able to stay scientific about their understandings.

Real Science
Scientist 1 sees an apple fall.
Scientist 2 sees an apple fall
Scientist 3 sees an apple fall.

Sudoscience of psychology.
1 sees mommy issues
2 sees psychological issues
3 sees chemical imbalances

No Science there!

reply to post by Incarnated


yo, check out NLP and what Dr. Richard Bandler and others have been uncovering.
The new psychology doesn't focus on what the problem was, per se, but rather on how to move on and create new frames of reality.

I have to admit that most of western psychology is filled with a lot of bs.

Also check out quantum psychology as well.

I suggest reading Robert Anton Wilson's Quantum Psychology or Prometheus Rising.

Also Bandler's reframing.

College is filled with brilliant people with tons of potential, but that doesn't mean they are entirely correct.

Your statement that people are fools for believing so strongly into psychology is absolutely correct, and absolutely incorrect at the very same time.

Have a great day.

Psychology is a big bull#. I studied Psychology at university for three years. Now I quit this # and Im preparing to enter the Medical University. You go for more to 10 years to a analist, speak some bull#, hear more bull#, pay a lot to nothing. Than you have some magical drug for some minutes and you are enlighted and free...

PSYCHOLOGY=BULL#=FREUD

Off course there are good valid principles in psychology, but very few...