911 Spotting RED HERRING Posters!

reply to post by cashlink


Great post. Thank you for the links. I especially love the transcript of the October 12th, 2001 Parade Magazine interview with Rumsfeld when he states "Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. "

Everyone needs to read the info at these links.

reply to post by bloodcircle


My Aussie friend do you honestly believe the official story on 911? It has been nearly 7 years since the twin towers we felled. There are sooooo many smoking guns and sooooo many holes in the OS I am shocked that there are still ATS members who believe it.

There were over 900 false statements made by the bush admin regarding 911, there is no way a plane hit the pentagon (physically impossible), 6 tonne titanium engines can't be vapourised by jet fuel (physically impossible).

Never before had a steel framed high rise building collapsed from fire, until 911. Never before had 2 let alone 3 black boxes 'vapourised' again physically impossible.

Not to mention bush telling fbi they were not allowed to investigate al queda............ RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!

I'm interested in learning and discussing. I truly have not made up my mind about 9-11. I have watched some of the videos and been to some of the sites. On the one hand it seems that any one piece of evidence can be explained or debunked .. but there are so MANY of them!

Kind of like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle of a horse, after about the 10th or 15th piece that has tiger stripes on it, you start thinking you have the wrong picture. Or like a CSI case .. the first piece of evidence that doesn't match the witness story you can blow off maybe .. but by the time you have half a dozen you've got to switch to following the evidence .. right?

One guy says the jet fuel fire wouldn't have been hot enough to melt steel, another says it didn't have to be, it starts to weaken at 1000 degrees and that would be enough to weaken the structure. What do I know, I'm not an engineer! How can I evaluate this type of evidence and figure out who's telling the truth?

One says the puffs of smoke and debris are CD, another says no they are from air that was being pushed down and out as the building pancaked. Well, is that possible? I don't know!

Somebody says cell phones don't work on planes, another says they do we just aren't allowed to use them. Well, I can't get on a plane and try my cell phone to find out .. so who do I believe?

Maybe we have some people on ATS who are experts in some of these fields, or at least know more about them than ordinary folks like me do, that haven't formed a definite opinion yet and could objectively answer some of these questions? Could we ask?

I think maybe there are other regular folks like me who are confused because there are experts on both sides, and since we can't adequately evaluate the evidence for ourselves, we don't know who to believe. So instead of fighting with each other, why not try to help me/us out? Maybe a fresh perspective would be good for both sides if you started explaining this stuff to me in terms I can understand. I'm not ignorant, but I'm not a structural engineer or a demolition expert or a plane crash investigator ..

Ok here's how it plays out in this forum and exactly how to solve it...

The CT Truthers and the ones that go with the official story aren't ever going to agree. They just aren't. Both sides are equally to blame for being closed minded about this issue, this will never change.

Why should it? The same story over and over again add nauseum gets spewed out on this forum. It ends up like this every single time. A thread where one side wants to list the other so that their side KNOWS who the enemy is. The sad part and the sad reality is that the actual truth of the matter is probably somewhere in the middle.

Both extreme sides of the issue are just to boneheaded to admit it. You all are trying to convince people like me that are actually open minded to real evidence, and real solid argument of what your side is.

Your both loosing the argument at this point by playing these silly games. both sides are turning people off of the issue completely and making it hard for the actual research into the truth to come out. What is the truth? I can't say. I read the 9/11 report, the reports by the engineers that plausibly cited how the buildings fell due to fire.

But questions remain. Why was the investigation so swift? Why was evidence removed from the scene before detailed forensics were done? Why did building 7 collapse?

But the truthers are at a disadvantage here. Especially when it comes to a court case. Absolutely everything they say they have uncovered is hearsay evidence and not admissible in court.

There is a lot to this issue, and labeling each other and marginalising each other into groups is not going to help anyone get to the truth. This is why we are here, this is why I am against the topic primer in this thread.

You start a thread, be it pro CT or anti CT, your going to get the hard line people from the other side into that thread. It's just going to happen. You know who these people are already, you know your not going to change their minds. Instead of letting them ruin your thread, take what they say, reflect on it, if you have evidence that does debunk their side, present it. then move on. Don't let these threads spin off into a flame war between both sides.

If a poster gets to the point of just flaming, ignore them, don't put them on ignore, just ignore what they say. If it's too off topic, alert the staff and let them take care of the issue.

Debate is good for a discussion board, it's why we are here. However if you are not willing to even listen to the other side's viewpoint, don't post anything. Obviously if you are not even willing to take what your opponent says seriously then you are as wrong as you feel your opponent is.

The ones you all are trying to sway are those who's minds aren't totally made up about the subject. These are the people that you are trying to convince with your "evidence" and "facts" as to what your side of the truth is. Acting in a childish manner and conducting flame wars on a discussion board does nothing to further your side of the argument. Instead it detracts from your side and hampers what you set out to accomplish.

In this thread itself I have seen several posters that are intentionally trying to derail the topic at hand. They have tried several ways to do it, this is wrong too. This is a tactic of those that have failed to produce evidence that their side is the right side to be on. These posts by being snide, rude, off topic, and insulting, does nothing to enhance your argument. Instead to those of us that read the posts. It makes it difficult for us to care about what is being said.

Civility and Decorum is mandatory on this board. The moderators have enough of a hard time as it is with all the hoaxers and other insanity that goes on with this website to have to babysit a group of close minded individuals in a endless word war with each other.

The truth is, your not going to agree with each other. Don't, no one expects you to. Bring your evidence to bear that strikes down your opponent's argument. Do it within the terms and conditions of the site, do it within the confines of the argument at hand. Do it respectfully and without malice towards the other side, and do you know what? You might find a great debate that lets others learn and formulate their own opinions on the subject at hand. Heck, you might actually learn something in the process.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Well you claim to have all the answers. Take it to the media, local police, An attorney.

The same can be said for you . You keep stating that you know what happened why don't you go to court and prove what you have been stating?

Try to backup the official story that you believe in so much but can never post and actual evidence to support it.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

This is a question I'd like to ask the "truthers" out there? Could you sound off your ages? Are any of you over 30? Are all of you "Democrats"? Just curious. I myself am one of those "Bushies" so hated around here. I'll take that immature name-calling because I'm used to it. I'm patriotic and will support my President no matter what. Its called "Loyalty". (I even supported Clinton, as slimy as he was and despite the fact he decimated our military and wagged the dog).

reply to post by CreeWolf

Well over 30 and an Independent/Libertarian who supports Ron Paul.

And no, I'm not loyal to any administration who would murder thousands of their own citizens to wage perpetual war or a president who swears an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, but later calls it a "goddam piece of paper."

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Wow! Thankyou! For a while I thought it was just kids. I've watched the videos, repeatedly asked myself if it was possible that our government was responsible for 9/11, and obviously came to a different conclusion than you.

I appreciate your response.....All I can say is.......wow!

You still think this even after the FIRST WTC bombings (in the basement levels), the USS Cole, the nearly constant attacks by Muslims perpetrated against Westerners for YEARS prior to 9/11? The claims of responsibility even?

As I said........wow!

reply to post by CreeWolf


Here is a website that is worth reading lots of good info here.
physics911.net...

Many unanswered question about 911.

reply to post by CreeWolf

I still think this after the USS Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, the USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, JFK, RFK, MLK, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City, Pan Am 103, TWA 800, WMDs in Iraq, etc. And I wouldn't be so sure about the first WTC bombings.

So as you can see, I don't think the Democrats are any better than the Republicans. Before WW I and II, Republicans were considered "isolationists" (actually non-interventionists.)

Just two sides of the same coin that gives Americans false choices. Do you think it was a coincidence that our last two presidential candidates were both Skull and Bones members?

BTW, this isn't unique to America either. Nero's burning of Rome, Hitler's Reichstag fire, Putin's Moscow apartment bombings (where the KGB/FSB was actually caught in the act), Italy's Operation Gladio and Britain's 7/7 are just a few foreign examples. Mossad's motto is "by way of deception, thou shalt do war" (ahem -- remember the five "dancing Israelis" arrested on 9/11?) It's the oldest trick in the book.





[edit on 11-8-2008 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by GoldenFleece


dont forget the bombings in London.

London Underground Bombing 'Exercises' Took Place at Same Time as Real Attack
www.prisonplanet.com...

the debunkers will tell just coincidence.

dont feed the trolls.

Originally posted by Heike
..I think maybe there are other regular folks like me who are confused because there are experts on both sides, and since we can't adequately evaluate the evidence for ourselves, we don't know who to believe. So instead of fighting with each other, why not try to help me/us out? Maybe a fresh perspective would be good for both sides if you started explaining this stuff to me in terms I can understand. I'm not ignorant, but I'm not a structural engineer or a demolition expert or a plane crash investigator ..

right, heike. its hard to figure out the truth, because it is a very complex theme and perhaps they used secret, new developed weapon on it, too. so perhaps nobody will figure out the answer.
in the iraq war there were used very unusual weapons, the doctors in the clinics dont know what kind of weapons caused those horrible woundings.
there are completely new developments , microwave weapons etc.

you dont have to be a structural engineer or a demolition expert or a plane crash investigator, there are enough professionals involved, who did a good job.
one thing those so called ´debunkers´(better DisInformants) do, is to kill
real discussions and to divert. they ask you for ´evidence´ all the time, just to keep you busy.even if the argument is striking, and common sense is telling you you are right.
stop arguing with those.

cheers

[edit on 11-8-2008 by anti72]

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
PLEASE, just spend a few minutes proof reading your posts. You will also likely learn, but argue with your teacher’s & repeatedly deny, that you have even used the term red herring incorrectly.

Jake the Dog Man, be careful when you accuse others of not using correct grammar. Jake the Dog Man, don't you know that there is no need for an apostrophe in the word "teacher's". Look, you made a grammar mistake, naughty you.

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
As for the grammar issue, you don’t find that distracting? When so many words are spelled wrong, used wrong & poor punctuation… you don’t find yourself spending more time figuring it out then listening?

Jake the Dog Man, perhaps you're not aware that the word 'and' should be spelt, instead of abbreviated with the ampersand symbol (&). Again, that's poor grammar from you. The phrase "When so many words are spelled wrong" should probably read "When so many words have been spelt wrong". It seems like your tenses don't read as well as they could.

Furthermore, how can someone 'listen' to words that are displayed as visual text on a screen? I guess that you've used poor grammar, when you meant to type 'reading' rather than 'listening'. Also, the word 'then' should probably have been the word 'than' - your grammar isn't clearly expressed in that sentence.

Stop making yourself look foolish, by being the spelling/grammar police. NO ONE (including me) uses perfect grammar or spelling on the internet. Your's is far from perfect, yet you have the gall to accuse others about their poor grammar. Amazing.

Originally posted by vehemes terra eternus
reply to post by bloodcircle

 

My Aussie friend do you honestly believe the official story on 911? It has been nearly 7 years since the twin towers we felled. There are sooooo many smoking guns and sooooo many holes in the OS I am shocked that there are still ATS members who believe it.

At this point, I must believe that those who come here with vehemence and vitriol supporting the Official Conspiracy Theory are either lacking in critical thinking skills, incapable of grasping the information around them in their Universe, irrationally tied emotionally to the concept that the govt will always protect them, or else they are paid to spread the lies the rest of us have all seen through.

Enough of bantering back and forth wasting time. Let's revamp our govt, starting with a requirement that, if they can watch us, we get to watch them - 24/7. It is the sacrifice one must make if one wishes to be of service in a federal capacity.

Have public access channels that broadcast and record data from a required set of cameras carried by each elected federal representative.

In this way, no plans can be made by our reps that we cannot know of. Any govt that is allowed secrecy is a govt that can be subverted.

Originally posted by tezzajw
The phrase "When so many words are spelled wrong" should probably read "When so many words have been spelt wrong". It seems like your tenses don't read as well as they could.

While I think both sides here should just lay off the grammatical and spelling creppola, I did want to point out that the proper usage on this particular point depends on whether one is American or British (or really, using British convention).

Being American, my spell-check shows the word "spelt" as unknown. But if I switch it to British English... Different story.

So if you are being elitist in your choice of conventions...

Heh.

Originally posted by cashlink
911 Spotting RED HERRING Posters!



I just realized how much time I have wasted

responding to taunts made by several posters on all

the 911 threads. I'will no longer respond to red

herring posts by these guys. It is their intention

to keep Truthers like myself engaged in meaningless

spiralling arguments. They have no concern for

uncovering the truth; their only motive is to keep us

busy responding to them. RECOGNIZE THEM!

DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winnner.

Realize it is not JUST the 9/11 threads that have this going on. Know how I know which threads are important? By the reaction of certain "people" in them. By that, I do not mean any individual personally, I mean by the responses, which all seem to come from the same play book.

One of the BEST things you can do to combat this is to REPEAT your original post when they come along and try to engage you emotionally. Don't respond to them, just repeat your original post. If you see them doing to to someone else's post, just repeat that someone else's post.

They know that by engaging you emotionally, especially with name calling, and "us vs them" mentalities, they can sidetrack the posts. WHERE they sidetrack them is unimportant, just so long as the original direction is not maintained.

I used this (repeating the important post, while ignoring the shills) to great effect on another board on another topic.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Originally posted by CreeWolf
This is a question I'd like to ask the "truthers" out there? Could you sound off your ages? Are any of you over 30? Are all of you "Democrats"? Just

I am 47.

Former Air Force crew chief, so i know about avaition.

Former Federal Police Officer, so i know about evidence and Emergency Incident Command.

Now a government analyst with accces to plenty of professional and government research sites.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by CreeWolf
This is a question I'd like to ask the "truthers" out there? Could you sound off your ages? Are any of you over 30? Are all of you "Democrats"? Just curious. I myself am one of those "Bushies" so hated around here. I'll take that immature name-calling because I'm used to it. I'm patriotic and will support my President no matter what. Its called "Loyalty". (I even supported Clinton, as slimy as he was and despite the fact he decimated our military and wagged the dog).

I am 51, I am neither side of the counterfeit coin of Democrat/Republican (which will buy the same creppola), and I am saddened that you feel King George is worthy of support.

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
As time goes on, reading your poor grammar & seeing your childish tactics, I now believe you are not even old enough to be on this board. I hope that a moderator reviews your registration again. At the very least make sure a child doesn’t have access to your account.

PLEASE, just spend a few minutes proof reading your posts. This will become so important in middle school. You will also likely learn, but argue with your teacher’s & repeatedly deny, that you have even used the term red herring incorrectly.

My apologies if English is your 2nd language.

BTW- Seriously, the dog is cute.

Okay, as someone may have already pointed out since we are beyond 4 pages on this thread. You complain about his grammar and yet you have issues in your own post.

"You will also likely learn, but argue with your teacher's (why the apostraphe if this is plural?) & repeatedly deny, that you have even used the term red herring incorrectly (maybe you should read this again because I don't know if you stated this right. Because if he denies that he used the term incorrectly it is a double negative which means that he is stating that he HAS used it correctly. See what I'm saying? Don't start slamming on people because of their grammar. That's a quick ticket to being ridiculed yourself.)

Originally posted by TheBobert
LOL Ultima I think Jake is referring to Cash.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by TheBobert]

It doesn't matter. The point is that resorting to insults gives fodder to the other side regardless of where the poster stands. Plus it is just wrong.

Now, I admit that I get caught up in the emotion at times and start to post angry threads but I try very hard to avoid slamming the grammar that people display. Not everyone is created equal and not everyone has had the same opportunities to practice their typing skills. I like to think of myself as a pretty decent typist and writer but many times I find errors in my posts that I didn't catch until a third go through. It happens. People shouldn't resort to slamming people for this. Plus, I thought ATS was a worldwide site. That would lend credence to the fact that many on here do have English as their second language. EVEN AMERICANS! That's what this country is about. We welcome all nationalities and cultures.