Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

The americans do have an option of resolving it without either side looking bad , and explain the lack of information regarding why Russia attacked in the first place. They could say they were confused over Russian intentions in the area , including some it's bizaar tank and troop movements over the last few days and erroneous reporting coming from Tbilisi, and now believe they are there due to the now confirmed reports on the attack on Tskhinvali. And then start releasing that info to the media. Kind of.. now we know why your there , were not worried now . Even if they did know of course . But they are just finding out this info .. same time you are as they release info to the media.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by Rentor




That's the area they're supposed to be in.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by chips]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil

But they are just finding out this info

Are they? I thought Bush said publicly that the U.S. has people there monitoring ground movements.

No .. that is what they will say . I know and you know the US Govn't have all the facts of why Russia invaded, but the average american doesn't know their government is aware , they think the government really believes the rubbish the public are fed in the media. They can feign they are updated with this new information as news comes out from Russia , who are notoriously slow in passing info to the west.




[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


Ooh, I get ya.

Yeah, that sure is a possibility.

Wasn't around much yesterday so apologies if this was posted already This comes a day after Human Rights Watch called Russian claims of 2000 dead "exaggerated" -

www.hrw.org...

(Tbilisi, August 15, 2008) – Human Rights Watch researchers have uncovered evidence that Russian aircraft dropped cluster bombs in populated areas in Georgia, killing at least 11 civilians and injuring dozens, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch called upon Russia to immediately stop using cluster bombs, weapons so dangerous to civilians that more than 100 nations have agreed to ban their use.

“Cluster bombs are indiscriminate killers that most nations have agreed to outlaw,” said Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch. “Russia’s use of this weapon is not only deadly to civilians, but also an insult to international efforts to avoid a global humanitarian disaster of the kind caused by landmines.”

Human Rights Watch said Russian aircraft dropped RBK-250 cluster bombs, each containing 30 PTAB 2.5M submunitions, on the town of Ruisi in the Kareli district of Georgia on August 12, 2008. Three civilians were killed and five wounded in the attack. On the same day, a cluster strike in the center of the town of Gori killed at least eight civilians and injured dozens, Human Rights Watch said. Dutch journalist Stan Storimans was among the dead. Israeli journalist Zadok Yehezkeli was seriously wounded and evacuated to Israel for treatment after surgery in Tbilisi. An armored vehicle from the Reuters news agency was perforated with shrapnel from the attack.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Conservative leader David Cameron has said it is important the West shows unity with Georgia, as he visits the country's capital, Tbilisi.

He travelled to the region for talks with political leaders amid continuing tensions between Georgia and Russia.

Mr Cameron has urged the UK to be tough on Moscow and Prime Minister Gordon Brown has joined the US in calling for Russia to pull troops out of Georgia.

"What Russia destroys, the EU and Nato will help... restore," said Mr Cameron.

The UK parties are still united on this one.

SKY NEWS: After signing peace deal, medvedev says he's troops wont pull out of georgia until extra security arrangments are put in place.

Sky TV has just reported something about Lavrov saying Russia will not pull out until after its military/security operations are in place.

Tick-tock, tick-tock...

Heard the analyst in Moscow (Sky) say that if Russian troops arent pulling out, it means their strategic objectives are not yet achieved. Medvedev has ordered extra "security arrangements" into the conflict zone...

Looks to me that Russia isn't planning on leaving any time soon.

I just hope that the Georgians are able to control their nerves as the Russians draw closer and closer.

All it needs is one nerveous soldier that opens fire and hell will break out.

reply to post by Mammoth


Yes, and 'security operations' could be interpreted as anything. Personally, I think they plan on absolutely annihilating Georgia's military infrastructure - but that might take some time.

Any ideas as to what Bush might say in his upcoming press conference? With the Russians still carrying out various operations inside Georgia, I expect the ante to be upped.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili have now both signed the French-brokered peace deal, but Lavrov said the document signed by the Georgian leader was missing a key introductory part.

"The document signed by the Georgian president differs from the one which was agreed," he said. "It totally omits the introductory part saying that these principles are supported by Russia and France and calling on all sides to sign them."

(AlertNet)

This also doesn't make any sense. Russia had earlier said that the document was identical.

They will destroy as much of Georgia's military capability as they can . Nobody is really surprised at that. It is the same thing America would do . The wails of anguish that the press and politicians display are just for public show.

The winter will soon set in in the caucasus , that may be what really determines when they decide to withdraw to SO.



[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by wolfmanjack

The question we have to ask ourselves is exactly what tactical advantage does it give the russians for them to destroy this bridge.

the tactical advantage, is to remove the ability of the georgian army ( or U.S. ) to quickly move.

that rail line was used to move tanks APC's and men across the country quickly.

it makes sense.

If what they're doing is truly to prevent attacks against South Ossetia as Russia claims, then taking out the bridge (judging from the map) seems as though it would definitely hinder movement of Georgian forces in western Georgia (where reports of Russian forces have increased, in Poti and elsewhere) toward South Ossetia. It wouldn't render it totally impossible, but would make it difficult logistically. That may be their intent. Unfortunately, it may also hinder the distribution of humanitarian aid. Of course, if Russia is distrustful of America's humanitarian mission in Georgia, then that too may be part of their intent. They may be trying to prevent the movement of forces or supplies from the western part of the country to the north and east sections.

From debkafile... even if they are most of the time crazy.

Back-door US-Russian contacts to de-escalate war of words - after Moscow threatens to nuke Poland

The other concession, which will unfold in time, is the removal of the Georgian president, another of Moscow’s conditions for ending the crisis. It is hard to see Saakasvhili surviving the outcry at home when the extent of his military and diplomatic failures is revealed to his people.

It would be good for region... that crazy guy is a threat to world peace.

Hm.

Bush says some progress in Georgia crisis

CRAWFORD, Tex, Aug 16 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush, after meeting with his national security team, said on Saturday that there was progress in resolving the Georgia crisis.

He said the fact that Russia and Georgia have signed a ceasefire pact was "a hopeful step."

But he said Russia now needed to honor the agreement and withdraw its forces. He said the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia are a part of Georgia and "there's no room for debate on this matter."

He made the comments at his ranch in Texas.

Erm, hold on - let's look at that last part again:

He said the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia are a part of Georgia and "there's no room for debate on this matter."

'Progress'? Idiot.

Well, that's bought the Russians a bit more time, anyway.

(Source: AlertNet)

reply to post by chips


So now the President of the United States is advocating reunification between the separatist provincies and Georgia proper. I can only hope that this was a characteristic slip of the tongue and not official U.S. policy. Our policy before this conflict, as far as I know, was that they were disputed territories with Russian peacekeeping forces. Now, post-conflict, he is saying that they are undeniably part of Georgia. That isn't going to make Russia any happier, and it may embolden Georgia.

I'm not saying this out of any desire for the conflict to end one way or to indicate that I am opposed to reunification. I'm not opposed to it or in support of it. I just want us to adopt a policy that will lead to the least amount of bloodshed, and somehow I can't help but feel that us denying their independence when irregular forces from them are in Georgia right now looting and such, in retalliation for what they view as an unprovoked attack by the state Bush just said they are a part of, isn't it.

On the humanitarian front, I thought this might be interesting to some:
PHOTOS: Assisting Georgia's Displaced

[edit on 8/16/2008 by AceWombat04]

RUSSIA EXPLAINS WHY IT HASN'T STOPPED ITS ACTIONS IN GEORGIA:


Saakashvilli has signed a DIFFERENT VERSION OF THE PEACE PLAN than the one Medvedev signed earlier. Russia states that a key condition agreed to by Russia has been taken out of the document signed by Saakashvilli. Russia may refuse to sign the peace plan without the missing clause. There was never any cease-fire, because Georgia failed to sign the accord agreed to by Russia, SO, Abkhazia, and French President Sarkozy. Russian minister Lavrov stated that the peace process now depends on actions of Saakashvilli, and whether he signs the original peace plan.

lenta.ru...



""We are somewhat bewildered by the fact that the document signed by Saakashvili differs from the document worked out by the presidents of Russia and France, so the issue is still to be specified via diplomatic channels," Sergei Lavrov said.

He said the document signed by Saakashvili lacks the introductory clause."

en.rian.ru...





So before saying Russia broke the ceasefire, try and get some facts from both sides. Georgia thinks it is playing word games with this peace accord, but taking out some portions. Well, Georgia is not in the position to make any demands, seeing how they were largely defeated militarily.


And no - Russia is not invading. If Russia wanted to take Tbilisi, we would have seen the city fall ON AUGUST 9TH. Remember - Russian forces in Gori are about 1 1/2 hours from Tbilsi. They could have already rolled through there if they wanted to. Russia has very experienced veteran elite forces in the area, who are well adapted to assaulting urban areas (back from Chechen war). These forces together with Russian armor and air support could have taken Tbilisi in one day - even with all the Georgian defense there (much of which is unexperienced in combat). Russia has the clear military edge, and yet it is not using it to invade but just to crumble Georgia's military infrastructure - part of which is the "railway bridge".



Russia is simply using the fact that Georgia has not agreed to the original ceasefire, to further "neutralize" Georgian weapons and military infrastructure.




Ask yourself - why didn't Saakashvilli sign the original peace accord - thereby leagally forcing Russia to stop any military advance or destroying Georgian military infrastructure? Why was the document changed? Something in this puzzle is not falling into place.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by maloy]