Raising Kids Without Religion... A cop-out?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You missed my point.

I said were you faithfully following God at that same time you were tithing?

And the example I gave was gambling, lest say a person tithed, then spent everything else on gambling, or alcohol, or drugs. Or that person lived in debt, something God tells us not to do.

So then is it our fault for it or Gods? That was the point of my Q.

I don't think I did.... your proposal was "he also says we can "test" him with our tithe. That if we do so faithfully he will bless us many more times over. Try it for a year, God promises you can test him on it. If you are worse off financially after that year then you can rest assured that it's all bogus. Guaranteed."

You made no stipulations in this promise you made on behalf of god and then after I told you I did this faithfully for more than a year and struggled financially all throughout it, god didn't follow through because of something ELSE I was doing? THERE is the strawman you keep drawing reference to.

For the record, no I didn't gamble, throw my money away on booze and/or drugs, and I was responsible with my money other than believing that I was doing god a service by giving up 10% of my earnings weekly to the church.

I don't give my $$ to the church anymore and struggle less (although I am realistic and realize this has little to do with god and that 10% and more to do with the fact that I have worked hard to get where I am at now).

reply to post by asmeone2


What faith are you? I think you should raise your kds according to what you believe. Your children are created in your image with you like it or not. They will do exactly what you do. They are sponges and automatic imitators. It can't be helped. Trying to raise them in some abstract way that doesn't match who you are won't work. If you go to church, are you going to leave them home? If you don't go to church, are you going to make them go to church without you? And if you've never gone to church before, there's no sense starting now just for them. Just be true to yourself. You are who you are. Don't pretend to be something you're not.

Originally posted by babloyi
if my parents had listened to me when I said I didn't want to eat vegetables, I'd be a pretty scrawny and weak person now. Now you might say that vegetables are good for you, while religion is bad, but then again, that is coming down to personal opinion. Another parent may consider spiritual well-being just as important as mental well-being. A child is the responsibility of his/her parents. Just because a kid doesn't want to do something, doesn't mean it shouldn't.

Eating or not eating vegetables doesn't hurt you.

However, forcing your kids to believe what you believe is damaging to their psyche. I know because I have been through it. I still struggle with it everyday.

What will happen when the children grow up and find out that their religion of their parents are false? Disillusionment will result.

Believing what you believe is your personal choice. This includes the children.

Why does anyone think a church give's moral value's.

Either you raise ya kid right..teach ti right from wrong or you don't.

my kid's do not go to church not because..i forbid it...it's because they never asked to go..they know about god jesus ect....

Now for moral value's...

any church teach's...
get saved..baptisted ..ect.. or you go to hell and so on.

Does not matter if they are a thousand time's nicer and actually live the way the bible say's...they going to hell...they didn't believe in god or jesus ..ect..

but the back slider...he can rape kill mame murder...as long as before he die's
repent on death bed..and truly ment it ..he get's to go to heaven..

kinda ironic huh lol

Sorry anyway you slice it...that isn't moral i want my kid's to learn.

my 3 year old doesn't need to learn..god demand's there belief or they burn in hell..even if they are better in life than sussie church goer.

not to mention the word of god cost's minimum of 9$ and 99cent....
jesus threw...THREW money and people out of the church...but it's ok to sell the word of god hmmmmm lol
i guess gods word need copyright protection lol
if you can see my point.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
reply to post by asmeone2

 

What faith are you? I think you should raise your kds according to what you believe. Your children are created in your image with you like it or not. They will do exactly what you do. They are sponges and automatic imitators. It can't be helped. Trying to raise them in some abstract way that doesn't match who you are won't work. If you go to church, are you going to leave them home? If you don't go to church, are you going to make them go to church without you? And if you've never gone to church before, there's no sense starting now just for them. Just be true to yourself. You are who you are. Don't pretend to be something you're not.

So what your saying by ...."They will do exactly what you do"
Gay people that adopt kid's become gay..becouse they do what there parents do?just asking? lol

i disagree...a good 75% of kids rebel against every word and idea there parents have...they do have some attributes..
they do the exact opposite in life...or try to.

Being a good person has nothing to do with being religious. I commend all of you who are bringing your children up to make their own decisions. I was raised catholic and even as a child it didn't make any sense to me. I do not follow any one religion or path. I take whatever goodness and light from wherever I may find it and live by example.

Originally posted by beforetime

So what your saying by ...."They will do exactly what you do"
Gay people that adopt kid's become gay..becouse they do what there parents do?just asking? lol

i disagree...a good 75% of kids rebel against every word and idea there parents have...they do have some attributes..

they do the exact opposite in life...or try to.

I thought being gay was a genetic thing?

Kids don't rebell until they reach about 16 years of age. Until then it's pure cloning time. Do you have kids?

The problem I see with religion is that too often, its just a crutch. It can also make people mentally weak.

Think about this..

Lets say science proves that there is no god.. not just the Christian God, but any god at all.
People that didn't believe wouldn't be affected at all, but you'd see so many followers of religions go crazy. I only know Christians, but I can guarantee that a lot of them would lose their minds if God were disproven as their whole lives revolve around the faith that He is real.

Now, lets say science proves that there is a god (for example, I'll use the Christian God) and that all His teachings in the Bible are truth.
Christians will rejoice that their faith is proven, but all those that didn't believe wouldn't go crazy... they'd just accept Jesus and God and get on with it.

I think its better NOT to believe in things that are not proven for this simple reasoning alone. If your crutch breaks, you'll fall down.

Chances are science will never prove or disprove the existance of a god, because its beyond comprehension.
But at first, so was the sun, the moon, and then gravity, and DNA.. but now we're understanding all these things.... if there is a god, science will find it eventually. If science doesn't, then there is no god.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Eating or not eating vegetables doesn't hurt you.

However, forcing your kids to believe what you believe is damaging to their psyche. I know because I have been through it. I still struggle with it everyday.

What will happen when the children grow up and find out that their religion of their parents are false? Disillusionment will result.

Believing what you believe is your personal choice. This includes the children.

One can suffer much damage by not having a balanced diet. And "forcing your kids to believe what you believe is damaging to their psyche" is an immensely generalised and vague thing to say. Paying too much attention to your child can damage their psyche. Paying too little can damage it. Forcing them to live in a house with lights always on full can damage their psyche. Forcing them to live in a house where lights are always dim can damage their psyche. Are you saying your psyche is damaged from being 'forced to believe'? You can hardly make a case with 1 example. I had the same sort of 'forcing', and my psyche is just as normal as anybody else's.

What will happen if they find out it is false? They'll move on. I've never heard of a child having a mental breakdown because they found out Santa Clause was not real. I've never heard of anyone having a mental breakdown because they found out they were believing the wrong thing. They usually just changed what they believed.

About belief being a personal choice, sure it is. But the belief comes from somewhere, not out of thin air. And it is the parents job to guide their child the best they can.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by beforetime

So what your saying by ...."They will do exactly what you do"
Gay people that adopt kid's become gay..becouse they do what there parents do?just asking? lol

i disagree...a good 75% of kids rebel against every word and idea there parents have...they do have some attributes..

they do the exact opposite in life...or try to.

I thought being gay was a genetic thing?

Kids don't rebell until they reach about 16 years of age. Until then it's pure cloning time. Do you have kids?

genetics's hmmm ...yeah some people have dna to like same sex..and to..go both way's aka BI.
it's mental or something wrong with the brain .
probably happens when a young age lol
proof is have you ever saw a 1 to 3 year old cry becouse there son want's to wear dress's lol think about it..they become gay later on down the road.
if you ask me. but i am not a scientist lol

yes i have kid's and they rebel starting at around age 4 or 5 sometimes age 3.
don't stick your finger in that light socket kid.....
they do it anyways or try lol
don't eat food once you drop it...
they pick it up put it in there mouth anyways.
so yes it's humans nature to defy parent's from a early age.

Originally posted by babloyi

What will happen if they find out it is false? They'll move on. I've never heard of a child having a mental breakdown because they found out Santa Clause was not real. I've never heard of anyone having a mental breakdown because they found out they were believing the wrong thing. They usually just changed what they believed.

Santa Claus isn't something that peoples lives revolve around. I don't remember learning that Santa wasn't real, so it obviously didn't bother me all that much!
If people put so much faith into something that they base their lives on it, their minds will unhinge if that faith is proved to be misplaced.
They lose all meaning, all direction, all hope of eternity... BIG difference from finding out where all your Xmas presents REALLY came from.

I am sick and tired to see on ATS religion based threads !!!!!

What is above top secret in religion ?

I am sure that there are other web sites that offer the opportunity to freely discuss this matter !

Religion has always been the cause of many wars throughout centuries and I do not wish to see this disease spreading over here.

I joined ATS only about conspiracies and UFO, not religion !

Then don't read the 'Conspiracies in Religions' forum.

reply to post by axehappy

Will they really? I dunno. This forum (and it's BTS counterpart) is full of testimonials that follow the general pattern of "Oh, I was so anti-[blah], I hated it, etc., etc., and then suddenly [cue road to Damascus type incident] happened, and I was changed forever. I left what I was, and embraced [blah]". I find these 'converts' to be some of the more intense personalities, but aside from that, I wouldn't say they are mentally unhinged.

reply to post by asmeone2


Doctrine is not the same as faith

reply to post by axehappy


Indeed, my bad ! I haven't even notices that there was a religious forum on ATS.

Sooory

Yes, I can imagine that being the case if you were anti-God and then found out he was real, you'd change your views and accept it.

Simply because you had no real, solid FAITH that there was no God.. it just doesn't matter if there is or not, you just don't believe.

Proof would simply make you a believer.

Its different to have the beliefs your life is built upon squashed. It would destroy you as a person, because a lot of Christian's become their belief. They are 'Christians' not just people who believe in God, Christ etc.

It would destroy, essentially, their entire being, and purpose for living.

Hmmmm....Who says that murder, lying, adultery, stealing, molestation etc are wrong? Morally speaking, I believe that they are all okay. Am I wrong? Nope. I was not taught that they are okay, but I believe so much that they are alright in society. My parents taught me otherwise, but I disagree with them. I believe these moral issues are relative to what I think. No one can tell me otherwise. I'm sick of people pushing their beliefs on me telling me that these issues are wrong and that it's wrong for me to believe and live otherwise. Just the other day, I lied to a child, stole her from her home, molested her and then murdered her. I've been telling all of my friends and family about what I've done and they are completely supportive of my decision. But, society is trying to tell me that I've committed a horrible crime. I feel fortunate that my friends and family support me. What basis does society have for telling me that I'm wrong in my actions?

reply to post by Monte-Carlo


I feel the same way about the political threads and seeing the names Obama and McCain every other thread on the recent posts list. So you know what I do? Subscribe to the forums that interest me and place my settings to only show those specific forums and to block out the political forums. That way, the people with an obvious interest in politics that are making those threads so popular will have their enjoyment without it getting on my nerves. It's possible you can do the same and block out the CIR forum.

If you don't like a certain field of topics, block out those forums. That way you won't see them but those who enjoy those subjects can still participate. There is no point in being a forum Nazi about it and trying to stifle conversation that others are obviously enjoying. It's up to you to update your settings or to stay out of the threads.

Originally posted by somedood
You do NOT need church to have morals. Anyone that thinks otherwise has severely diminished mental capacity. I have stronger morals than most of the people I know, and I have been agnostic my entire life. It's not how you're taught, it's what you're taught.

I couldn't agree with this more. Morals are not part and parcel with religion, and to think otherwise is simply foolish. "Spirituality" in general has little to do with morals. The idea that you should treat others kindly and that life is precious does not come from an invisible teapot orbiting the sun, it comes from knowing what it feels like to be treated oppositely, among other things. Empathy is not a religious thing.