It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Question for all past and present Military personel!

page: 2
2
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 10:48 AM
link   
worse comes to worse... I will not do anything against my conscience. If something is really not right like killing of innocent civilian, I will frag my own officer b4 going AWOL.

Fortunately, I have already finished my draft.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by hitmen]



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 11:18 AM
link   
They might get some parts of the military to do their dirty work. But I guarantee you that their will be a rebellion the likes of which this country experienced during the civil war. Infantrymen from the Army and Marines will separate and become rebels thats a fact... no the best option for martial law, is for them to use private sector mercs like Blackwater and the like, teamed up with local cops and Federal agents. There are allot of young combat veterans in this country right now and we are very pissed off.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 11:21 AM
link   
reply to post by Smokinbbl
 

You took an oath buddy! If you break it , we will hold you responsible!
I will uphold my oath so if you have any plans of breaking yours, I will stop you!



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 11:29 AM
link   
reply to post by mental modulator
 

I have news for you! Any law that makes the 2nd amendmant null and void is an illegal law. Have you never heard of an inallienable right?
That means nothing can over step it. I took an oath to defend the Constitution and if you try to breach this oath I will stop you with all that I am! Are you so dumb that you think these new laws are legitamate?
Even with today's technology " the armed masses could not be taken by an army large enough"
Have you not read " Operation vampire killer 2000"



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 11:39 AM
link   
At the end of the day it is down to your concsience and if you percieve the order to be an illegal one. You must always do what YOU feel is right even if it does mean disobeying orders.

''I was only Following Orders'' is not an excuse ...... Look at the Nazi War Crimes Trials after WW2.

It is not unknown in modern history for Armies and Navies to mutiny and this is always an option.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 11:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by Rick007
reply to post by Smokinbbl
 

You took an oath buddy! If you break it , we will hold you responsible!
I will uphold my oath so if you have any plans of breaking yours, I will stop you!



I am not planning on breaking any oath! I just wanted to ask a question. I love my Job and my country



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 01:41 PM
link   
reply to post by Smokinbbl
 


Credentials: I served 1 year, 8 months in the Army National Guard. Later, I served 4 years and 6 months in the US Air Force. Then I was in the AF Reserve (unorganized) for 3 yeas 6 months to fulfill my 8 years obligation under the 1950 UMTS Act. Universal Military Training and Service Act. Known to you as a DRAFT. That was back when the Armed Forces were for MEN only. Killing seemed then to be an inappropriate skill for women. Also known as the "Gentler Sex."

Rule 1 in all the military around the world. OBEY all lawful orders. The Q. is which word is "operative?" "Obey" or "lawful." Although the bad effect of killing unarmed civilians was so strong on the German Army in Poland and Ukraine, that the Germans relieved them of that Hitlerian "chore" and brought in the SS to finish the job, any solder refusing to obey risked instant death at the hands of his officers. (Sorry for the long sentence). Like it or not, that order was lawful then and in that place.

I call reliance on that Rule, “obey,” the Nuernberg Defense. It was generally allowed to lower ranking enlisted men. As your rank was higher, your obligation to humanity was likewise “higher.”

There is NO Rule 2.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 02:00 PM
link   
I would hope that there wold be enough good people.. that the order would never hapen.. and it would stop before it go to me.. but If it did get to me I would call it an unlawful order.. and hope I dont get hung for treason or something..


There would be one big Civil war..



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 02:29 PM
link   
I think the fact of the matter is that most military personel do what they have to in order to provide for their families. If the government started trying to liquidate its citizens i'm pretty sure anyone with a sane mind is going to rebel; that is of course if they haven't put the mind control devices in yet...



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 03:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Smokinbbl
What would you do if you found out that the government you worked for was a lie... And what would you do if you where givin an asignment to go into the streets, and start aresting / killing American civilians?

Or my favorite.. What would you do if you were ordered to go house to house and start confiscating legal guns from law abiding citizens?

What if our government went crazy, and started killing American citizens? How could we get out of it?



i think i saw this on the x-files one time, that would be weird



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:06 PM
link   
Well, I'm not going to debate morality, legality (to a point), or constitutionality. I will give you my take on the question at hand.

If my team was ordered to act in a police-like manner (never mind posse comitatus) I would follow orders as long as they were legal. Usually when the US military is called to act in support of police operations (usually the national guard does this before active military but there are exceptions...see Katrina threads for further info...lol) we are used as glorified security guards. Rarely does active duty units get "arresting" powers unless martial law is announced. Now, as to the question about arresting/killing US civilians, if I were given arrest authority I would most certainly arrest a fellow American if he or she were breaking the law. As to killing, it would depend on the situation. If I were in danger of being killed by said individual or if another innocent person were in that same danger then yes I would as a last resort, I'd do the same if I were civilian (which will thankfully be in a few months.)

In the instance of having to go door to door and confiscate legal weapons from legal owners...unfortunately I'd have to follow lawful orders (don't want to screw up my discharge!) but I would loathe what I'm doing. But, if you promise not to tell anyone (don't want to screw up my clearance either...lol) I would probably be a little lax on the confiscation if I were the only one in the house taking the guns...unless the guy in the house were being a total women's feminine wash product dispenser! (if you don't get that one U2U me..lol) I'd probably tell the owner that he should hide his stuff real well until this blows over and if he has a cheapo throwaway gun he's willing to let go I'll mark that one down and then on the books he'll be known as "compliant" and probably wouldn't have to deal with it again.

Before people respond saying that I'm a sheep for the above writings let me just say that unlike the posers out there that SAY they would go AWOL or frag their officers and what not, I am a realist. I'm not going to ruin my life for someone else's ideals of nobility. Yeah, I don't think forced confiscation of legally purchased/owned firearms is the right thing to do, much less the legal thing to do but I'd rather have some random guy pissed at me for taking his guns under the orders of the government than have the government pissed at me for not following orders. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either not in the military, just began military service and hasn't had the hippy bred out of them yet, or is just acting tough to pick up chicks. Even though I feel that it would be wrong I look at it more of an opportunity to work on the "inside"...anyone ever heard of the fifth column? How about hiding in plain sight? Really people!

Apex

P.S. Feel free to U2U me or reply or whatever if you need clarification, I tend to get long winded and I have a 4000 maximum character limit....lol


Edit to add: the statement above about "people who SAY they will go AWOL and frag...etc..." is not meant as a dig or shot at anyone who said that in this topic, just at those who say it elsewhere as if they know what the real world is like. Also this post is taken from a martial law perspective, not a Situation X beginning of the end of the world viewpoint!

[edit on 2-8-2008 by Apex Predator]



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:06 PM
link   
wow, you're question disgusts me. I can't believe you would assume that anyone in the military would attack their own nation that of which they serve. now I can't chastise you for thinking that what with msm these days, but i would like to point out some things for you, the Oath of Enlistment, and the Law Of Armed Conflict [LOAC] google either of those and theres your answer.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

LOAC

Geneva Convention

Code Of Conduct

most of the are the same site, but they are dead on accurate. We're people too dude, and whatever anyone thinks about the war on terror, they attacked us first, we just went into their backyard to give them some justice. We're the ones signing up to go to the sandbox on our own will so that there won't have to be a draft.
If i was given unlawful orders to attack my own, I would report them to the IG, OSI, and if it's that bad, the press.
Thats my 2 cents

[edit on 2008/8/2 by joe_dirt976]



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:12 PM
link   
reply to post by joe_dirt976
 


Wow, you're last statement really just said in a few words what I tried to say in 4000 words....HAHA. I told you I was long winded. You're dead on about reporting that to the IG, etc...



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:13 PM
link   
I swore to protect and defend the constution of the united states aganist all enemies foreign and domestic. The military would take out a dictator, if things came to that.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:17 PM
link   
this whole,we americans have guns,so the army couldnt win or take our country over crap is nonsense...you would be dismissed like fleas on the back of a dog....



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Smokinbbl
 


Being a Former United States Marine, 90's Gulf war veteran, I have to say that you have brought up some very interesting questions. I haven't read any
replies from others yet so if I'm beating a point already discussed I apologize.

I have to say that in my unit of the USMC we were drilled from day one that we were to defend our government and were to NEVER question our leaders. Those who were in command over us were there for a reason and we were to respect that and obey blindly otherwise we (the Marines) may die and that jeopardizes the mission. The mission being whatever the "leaders" wanted. We (Marines) all took an oath that states we will die defending our country from enemies both foreign and domestic. Enemies of the government being defined as anyone defiant of government (loosely stated constitutional) rule. Obviously we were not brainwashed and could make our own decisions, we are humans not the robots some think, though some would argue it was a form of brainwashing. We did have to take A LOT of pills and shots that we were not allowed to ask what they were for only that we'd have no choice as to rather or not we take the pills and/or get the shots, regardless.

If it were to work out the way it's designed Marines will do ONLY that which they are commanded. If you do not the consequences could and would affect the rest of your life via brig time, dishonorable discharge, branded a trader, death, etc...the alternative being possibly to go against your ethics, morals, and better judgment which too will result in affecting you negatively for the rest of your life...your choice I guess in the end.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Apex Predator
Well, I'm not going to debate morality, legality (to a point), or constitutionality. I will give you my take on the question at hand.

If my team was ordered to act in a police-like manner (never mind posse comitatus) I would follow orders as long as they were legal. Usually when the US military is called to act in support of police operations (usually the national guard does this before active military but there are exceptions...see Katrina threads for further info...lol) we are used as glorified security guards. Rarely does active duty units get "arresting" powers unless martial law is announced. Now, as to the question about arresting/killing US civilians, if I were given arrest authority I would most certainly arrest a fellow American if he or she were breaking the law. As to killing, it would depend on the situation. If I were in danger of being killed by said individual or if another innocent person were in that same danger then yes I would as a last resort, I'd do the same if I were civilian (which will thankfully be in a few months.)

In the instance of having to go door to door and confiscate legal weapons from legal owners...unfortunately I'd have to follow lawful orders (don't want to screw up my discharge!) but I would loathe what I'm doing. But, if you promise not to tell anyone (don't want to screw up my clearance either...lol) I would probably be a little lax on the confiscation if I were the only one in the house taking the guns...unless the guy in the house were being a total women's feminine wash product dispenser! (if you don't get that one U2U me..lol) I'd probably tell the owner that he should hide his stuff real well until this blows over and if he has a cheapo throwaway gun he's willing to let go I'll mark that one down and then on the books he'll be known as "compliant" and probably wouldn't have to deal with it again.

Before people respond saying that I'm a sheep for the above writings let me just say that unlike the posers out there that SAY they would go AWOL or frag their officers and what not, I am a realist. I'm not going to ruin my life for someone else's ideals of nobility. Yeah, I don't think forced confiscation of legally purchased/owned firearms is the right thing to do, much less the legal thing to do but I'd rather have some random guy pissed at me for taking his guns under the orders of the government than have the government pissed at me for not following orders. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either not in the military, just began military service and hasn't had the hippy bred out of them yet, or is just acting tough to pick up chicks. Even though I feel that it would be wrong I look at it more of an opportunity to work on the "inside"...anyone ever heard of the fifth column? How about hiding in plain sight? Really people!

Apex

P.S. Feel free to U2U me or reply or whatever if you need clarification, I tend to get long winded and I have a 4000 maximum character limit....lol


Edit to add: the statement above about "people who SAY they will go AWOL and frag...etc..." is not meant as a dig or shot at anyone who said that in this topic, just at those who say it elsewhere as if they know what the real world is like. Also this post is taken from a martial law perspective, not a Situation X beginning of the end of the world viewpoint!

[edit on 2-8-2008 by Apex Predator]



Thank you.. This is exactly why I asked this question! I wanted to get other military members point of view

I am just a mechanic in the Air Force, this would never hapen to me, but I wanted to get other peoples thoughts



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by joe_dirt976
wow, you're question disgusts me. I can't believe you would assume that anyone in the military would attack their own nation that of which they serve. now I can't chastise you for thinking that what with msm these days, but i would like to point out some things for you, the Oath of Enlistment, and the Law Of Armed Conflict [LOAC] google either of those and theres your answer.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

LOAC

Geneva Convention

Code Of Conduct

most of the are the same site, but they are dead on accurate. We're people too dude, and whatever anyone thinks about the war on terror, they attacked us first, we just went into their backyard to give them some justice. We're the ones signing up to go to the sandbox on our own will so that there won't have to be a draft.
If i was given unlawful orders to attack my own, I would report them to the IG, OSI, and if it's that bad, the press.
Thats my 2 cents

[edit on 2008/8/2 by joe_dirt976]


Sir, I understand the Oath.. I took it! and I understand the Military code of conduct, and LOAC.

I am not saying the streets in your town are going to become overun by our Armed forces..

I am just asking if you are curently serving in the military, and thier was a big civil uprising in the country against our government.. for instance what if you found out that the government really was behind 9/11, whos side would you be on... the people's side, or the the government side..

We took an oath to up hold the constitution, and the government, and the Presedent of the USA. what if the Government, and the Constitution where at war with themselves.. Who's side would you be on.


Me... I would uphold the Constitution!



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:59 PM
link   
reply to post by joe_dirt976
 


As far as I can tell, the US has signed away the Geneva Convention so that would not apply.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 05:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Smokinbbl
 


the troops will be foreigners...probably UN with a combo russian,chinese,etc.

if we go into Iran then get ready for martila law..


also they are trying to weaken our troops with various tactics...

Halliburton water treatment failure in Iraq
www.youtube.com...

Target 5: Secret Shots in the military
www.youtube.com...



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join