House Dems turn out the lights, but GOP keeps talking

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by nyk537
Couldn't agree with you more.

I hope more people take a look at this and see who is really trying to help here. Democrats are perfectly content with starting their vacations and leaving things as they are.

For God's sake! Pelosi won't even allow a vote on this!

I said before and I say it again. The democrats are perfectly happy with skyrocketing gas prices. It goes hand in hand with their insane global warming and anti carbon based fuels agenda. These bastards are behind it all!

And Bush, Chenny and most of the rank in the executive branch is / are a bunch of oil people!!!

IF you think this is coincidence ???
your insights upon the Dems and global warming is good... But don't forget your boys and token girl ( who has a Gazilion dollar oil tanker named after her!)

As far as Republican policy... Free market baby... None interference in business, how is this any different?

Sadly this was a bill... for consumers or citizens recent,,, addressed prices and price gouging....

I wonder who voted it down????


guess?

inform yourself,,, both sides are screwing you! Click the link below - it is GOV.



(Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices...
NAYs ---43
Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC) Dole (R-NC) Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL)
McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


Not Voting - 6
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Kennedy (D-MA)
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)

www.senate.gov...

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by Fathom
i think this is grandstanding "hey look at us, we are for the people.." blah blah blah, you should have tought of that when you guys were in charge OF THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT! and failed to do anything worth a damm!

It wasn't the Conservative core of the Republican party that was failing to to get things done. It was the obstructionist liberals from the democrat party that was preventing the peoples business from getting done. Liberal Republicans were in on it too but it was by far the fault of democrats and what is going on today is just more proof!

Yup proof those DEMS

www.senate.gov...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Again with the Strawmen arguments.

They don't have the right to just "explore". That implies they have free reign to search anywhere, and they'd better not "explore" privately or state owned land without permission.

Perhaps you should get some rest before claiming someone hasn't researched a topic. A single lease, of many, that they supposedly sat on for 25 years doesn't disprove the point. Show us all of the spare unused drills, derricks, and employees sitting around doing nothing.

You seem to imply that they are ready and able to begin drilling tomorrow; and that they're simply waiting on the ok to begin.

It's also a fact that the South Dakota oil shale find is believed to DWARF our SPR many times over. West Coast was dead on with that one; so opening up the SPR for some immediate relief at the pumps is not an unreasonable option.

[edit on 8/2/08 by redmage]

Originally posted by redmage
reply to post by jasonjnelson

 

Again with the Strawmen arguments.

They don't have the right to just "explore". That implies they have free reign to search anywhere, and they'd better not "explore" privately or state owned land without permission.

Perhaps you should get some rest before claiming someone hasn't researched a topic. A single lease, of many, that they supposedly sat on for 25 years doesn't disprove the point. Show us all of the spare unused drills, derricks, and employees sitting around doing nothing.

You seem to imply that they are ready and able to begin drilling tomorrow; and that they're simply waiting on the ok to begin.

[edit on 8/2/08 by redmage]

They are all siting in the staging area behind the rangers station playing 21 and bumpin "catscratch fever"..While I wait I'm gonna grow a mullet and encourage the hair to grow into my ears in order disrupt my cognitive functions...

reply to post by Hal9000

Originally posted by Hal9000

Yes we could have drilled. We could have drilled more and maybe we could have reduced our foreign dependency a few percentage points. The fact is we hold less than five percent of the worlds petroleum reserves, so how does drilling help?

Here is a clue. It doesn't.

You know I hope the republicans depend on nothing but oil to live on, because that means they have a short life span. The rest of us who have longer term goals, want to rely on renewable energy. Otherwise countries like Brazil, who already have a head start, will be the new global superpower, while we are scraping for oil.

One positive thing from this outcome is that at least we will be rid of the republicans.
[edit on 8/2/2008 by Hal9000]

Recently you whined because I used the term "Obamatron". But you freely resort to attacks on Republicans. You are a hypocrite, HAL9000.

We owe it to the next generation to pass down a good energy policy, which includes drilling, clean coal, nuclear, hydrogen, and all others. To rely on "green" sources such as wind and solar just does not pass the test - they cannot come close to providing the cheap and reliable energy we need as the world's most industrialized, technical nation.

Dem's can't get that through their heads. They want the tree-huuger vote today, and forget about tomorrow.

reply to post by jasonjnelson

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by redmage

 

WRONG!!

The truth is, they have the rights to EXPLORE for oil.

In my current thread on Obama's sudden reversal on the drilling, his stance is that the PROCESS to dig explored areas would prevent an immediate impact!
I'm too tired to google, but there are many ignored threads on the fact that Shell took over 25 years to get DENIED the right to drill in an area they currently have "leased".

Even more land will not solve the issue, it's the ENVIRONAZI'S who prevent the drilling. The oil companies want the new leases to force the permit process into the public, and lower the speculators. Eliminate the process I say!

Oh, and people like you who do not do their research...(really look before you rebut my argument..) really make your side look bad.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by jasonjnelson]

You are absolutely correct. Just having the lease is only part of the process. The permitting phase of the process can easily add 3 to 5 years to the timeline, and is where the ENVIRONAZI'S (I love that word) can really grind the process to a halt with their concerns about the spotted salamander, etc. Bush has the ability to fasttrack the process to bypass normal approvals, in the name of national security. I hope he does.

Star for you.

reply to post by redmage

Originally posted by redmage


It's also a fact that the South Dakota oil shale find is believed to DWARF our SPR many times over. West Coast was dead on with that one; so opening up the SPR for some immediate relief at the pumps is not an unreasonable option.

[edit on 8/2/08 by redmage]

Why open up the SPR and sell off cheap gas that will have to be replaced with more expensive gas? The SPR is not to be used as a rainy day fund.

There is no shortage of gas. I can drive to the station and pump to my heart's desire. Unlike the 70's, with long gas lines.

reply to post by nyk537


I dont agree with the actions of the Democrats but this goes on from both sides. The Republicans have been pulling this same crap when they had the majority(1992-2006). Turning the lights off, killing mics, leaving legislation in committee until it dies. Believe it or not but this is how our process works. When a party is in majority, they have the right to end debates, push the legislation they want and stall the legislation they want to die. Its a very messed up system but this has been happening since this nation was formed. Read some history and you will see that in congress you dont have to be right you just have to be in majority. The "Because I said so policy".

And I'm sick of people bringing up this offshore drilling BS, it has been covered in several threads and the math and the facts show conclusively that drilling offshore will not impact prices in the short term and in the long term the effect will be negligible. Not too mention that the amount of oil we are talking about will only provide us with oil for about 10 years, so then we will be in the same boat again. Drilling offshore is propaganda, if you believe it will lower prices you are being duped.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Bush has the ability to fasttrack the process to bypass normal approvals, in the name of national security. I hope he does.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Why open up the SPR and sell off cheap gas that will have to be replaced with more expensive gas? The SPR is not to be used as a rainy day fund.

I gotta admit you've given me a good laugh this morning.

Thanks for that.

When you agree with someone (your reply to jasonjnelson), the current situation is a matter of "national security" that you hope Bush acts upon; yet when you disagree with me (in the very next post), the current situation merely equates to a "rainy day".

Why open up the SPR? Because it would alleviate the currently inflated PPB, and give Americans some immediate relief at the pumps. This would be real oil in the marketplace now; not just some notion of oil in the distant future (like with Bush's drilling announcement). Not to mention the SPR has become virtually obsolete through being dwarfed by our newly found SD deposits, and the SD deposits would provide the notion of "future oil" as well; so it's a fairly safe action.

Just as a hypothetical, lets say Bush opens the SPR and sells half of it to domestic companies at a fixed rate of half the current market value. First off, we could replace one barrel for every two sold at current market value; however, that's a bit misleading since the action would drive down the PPB so we'd actually get a little better return than just a straight "one for two", and we'd retain at least 3/4 of our current SPR.

As mentioned, the action would drive down the global market's PPB, thus many speculators would jump ship just like what people are giving Bush credit for with his drilling announcement "causing" the price to drop $20 per barrel. More oil available now and less speculation equates to a substantial drop in the currently inflated PPB.

The money saved would provide more than enough immediate capital for our domestic companies to be able to fast track development of "safe" drilling/processing tech to begin extracting from our shale deposits without hurting their record profit margins. That keeps shareholders happy.

In short, Bush gets to provide more kickbacks to his Big Oil buddies (which he loves), and he gets to be a hero at the pumps for average Americans.

Again, that would be far too easy. It's much better to tighten the squeeze on the middle/lower classes, and keep them bickering with the L/R blame game.

[edit on 8/2/08 by redmage]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Recently you whined because I used the term "Obamatron". But you freely resort to attacks on Republicans. You are a hypocrite, HAL9000.

How are attacks on republicans being hypocritical because I made a comment that I thought you were above name calling? Obviously I was wrong, but you continue to bring this up for some reason. Why?

We owe it to the next generation to pass down a good energy policy, which includes drilling, clean coal, nuclear, hydrogen, and all others. To rely on "green" sources such as wind and solar just does not pass the test - they cannot come close to providing the cheap and reliable energy we need as the world's most industrialized, technical nation.

I agree.

Dem's can't get that through their heads. They want the tree-huuger vote today, and forget about tomorrow.

So are you being hypocritical because you constantly attack democrats? I don't understand what you mean.

If congress voted to allow offshore drilling and even in ANWAR at any other time, I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as it is done respecting the environment. I don't have a problem with it. What bothers me about doing it now is that republicans are forcing the issue for political purposes. They claim that lifting the ban will reduce prices now, when it is untrue. Prices are dropping now because our demand has dropped.

The other point I am making is that even if we drill, eventually we still need a plan for renewable and cleaner energy, which you seem to agree with, and this is where our priorities should be. Not squabbling over oil leases. If they really wanted to, there is plenty of leases out there that they have been sitting on. Why not drill there? Drill to your hearts content. Why is lifting this ban sooo important, right now?

[edit on 8/2/2008 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by nyk537
Couldn't agree with you more.

I hope more people take a look at this and see who is really trying to help here. Democrats are perfectly content with starting their vacations and leaving things as they are.

For God's sake! Pelosi won't even allow a vote on this!

I said before and I say it again. The democrats are perfectly happy with skyrocketing gas prices. It goes hand in hand with their insane global warming and anti carbon based fuels agenda. These bastards are behind it all!

And Bush, Chenny and most of the rank in the executive branch is / are a bunch of oil people!!!

IF you think this is coincidence ???
your insights upon the Dems and global warming is good... But don't forget your boys and token girl ( who has a Gazilion dollar oil tanker named after her!)

As far as Republican policy... Free market baby... None interference in business, how is this any different?

Sadly this was a bill... for consumers or citizens recent,,, addressed prices and price gouging....

I wonder who voted it down????


guess?

inform yourself,,, both sides are screwing you! Click the link below - it is GOV.



(Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices...
NAYs ---43
Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC) Dole (R-NC) Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL)
McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


Not Voting - 6
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Kennedy (D-MA)
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)

www.senate.gov...

OPPPS

YES I agree!

so what if it takes a long time. if it helps with gas prices in 2025, then do it. gas might be 20 bucks a gallon by then. i would hate to be the guy who had the choice, but decided against it because it would take too long. if we would have been drilling there 20 years ago, we would not be in the situation we are in now.

and if your worried about oil spills, the amount that has been spilled into the ocean from off shore drilling is small compared to how much naturally seeps into the ocean.

"As much as 1.5 million barrels of oil may enter the ocean from natural seeps each year. When these leaks occur, as when spills occur, natural organisms and chemical processes act to break down the oil over time. This process is called natural bio remediation."

www.awma.org...

and no one knows how much oil is off shore. The fact is since it was banned, no one has been searching there. there could be huge deposits that we dont even know about. current estimates put it at about 85.9 billion barrels.

85.9 billion barrels is alot.

"The largest oil field in the world (Ghawar in Saudi Arabia) contains an estimated ultimate recoverable 75-85 billion barrels of oil, or nearly 6 times Prudhoe Bay, in Upper Jurassic shallow-water carbonates in a broad anticline. "

www.gravmag.com...

so basically we have the equivalent to the largest oil field in the world and we are doing nothing about it.

" Using International Energy Agency demand forecasts, by 2030 this production would equal less than 5% of U.S. daily consumption, and less than 1% of global daily consumption. "It would certainly help," says Potter. "But it won't make us energy-independent."

the above quote is from
www.businessweek.com...
and is referring to offshore drilling. it says offshore drilling output would equal less than 5% of u.s. daily consumption. well guess what, 5% will absolutely help. if we can offset 5% of our foreign imports, that means we could cut our imports from nigeria(i guess there are filters on here, it is supposed to say n.i.g.e.r.i.a), venezuela, or saudi arabia in half (each of these countries contributes roughly 9 to 11 percent of US imports). considering that n.i.g.e.r.i.a and venezuela are very unstable countries that can greatly effect our oil price, i dont mind at all supplementing half of their oil with ours. If thats not a big deal to you, i dont know what is.

And lets think about the debate that "it wont do anything until 2030." well, if we continue to do research into alternative fuels, alternative energy, hybrids, etc, maybe by 2030, we wont need as much foreign oil and can be closer to being self sufficient. ( i know this is highly unlikely but it could happen)

also, compare this situation to your retirement. i bet all of you are putting money away for retirement right now. ive been putting money into retirement for years and im only in my twenties. i do this because i know that decades down the road when i do retire, i will have money to support myself. im saving now because there is no way in hell i could save up that much money if i waited until a few years before i was going to retire. makes since right? so does drilling offshore.




[edit on 2-8-2008 by tdubz]

[edit on 2-8-2008 by tdubz]

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
I agree if the repubs cared this vote would be on allocating money to natural energy that is NOT oil.

There have been SOOOO many breakthroughs in solar/wind power that we could drop oil use atleast 50% over the next few years.

Destroying Alaska is not the answer. The ONLY way i would support this is if The Alaskan people got FULL control over the oil and project and 75% of the jobs were offered to Alaskans first. . Its there oil and their state . They have to live there..

Who's first in line for the no bid contract? I bet those repubs were pulling this show for a seat on the board of directors.
"Whoever makes the dems look bad gets the seat"



[edit on 1-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

and in the mean time you think we should continue to be beat down by the current prices of oil? yes we should be spending huge amounts on alternatives but the people of th U.S. need relief now and a desicsion to start domestic drilling and refining immediately would drive down speculation inflation econ 101

spelling edit


[edit on 2-8-2008 by constantwonder]

reply to post by mental modulator


Star for you. It is indeed both sides giving us the shaft. Democrats that won't stand up to make any effective change, and Republicans grandstanding now like they've been wanting to do something about this mess all long. In the meantime, Bush buddies have reaped enormous profits from the fuel "crisis." It's all a show that has nothing to do with the facts. Here is some insight friends. Watch the vids...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

people. drilling for offshore oil is not the solution to high fuel prices.

a new energy policy and new energy source is the solution. oil is obsolete. i am happy the democrats turned off the lights on the oil lovers.

do you all really want to make our planet worse off by continuing to drill for oil and continuing to pollute our dying planet?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Every money hungry Republican should be shot!! HAHA!! Climb up my leg and have a ball with this one!!

reply to post by constantwonder


The whole problem starts with the big oil comapnies who buy all the rights to all of the inventions we have come up with for alternate fuels. We should all be driving electric cars by now, but they won't let it happen. We don't need all that oil, but the big money forces us to use it. All the wonderfully gifted inventors out there that have stumbled across ways to save this planet have all been paid off!! Shame on you people!!! It's all about money!! The harder I work, the less I ,make!! This world is about to fall.....

reply to post by doomsday2012


Congratulations on a truly wonderful contribution to this thread!

Now if you will excuse us...the adults are talking.

Well guys, it looks as though the Republicans are going to keep fighting for this.

I've heard several of them say that there will be Republican members on the floor every day until either they reconvene or the vacation is over.

Way to go guys!

On a side note here...if you have a representative who is taking part in this stand, please call or email them and let them know how proud you are of them.

These guys need our encouragement.

There is nothing that will stop the oil cartels from exporting American oil to other countries if they get the opportunity since it will be more profitable. The Democrats are not stupid enough to fall for this tactic. America needs to invest in alternative American made fuel that won't take 10 years.

We have the capability and technology today to make real changes. Why wait 10 years so Exxon or BP can export to the highest bidder?

I believe the Republican senators are owned by the oil cartels! Look at how they fight so hard for them. Look at their voting records regarding oil interests and you will see the larger picture. They don't give a sh*t about the average Joe.