Another NASA employee comes forward - 8-9 Foot Alien Sighted

while its possible he met VB at the ramada in Coco Beach, Clark was not in the "circle of trust". VB had top secret clearance and no way did he just offer up information at will. If Clark can clearly show he was working within the engineering group, special projects, guidance and sub-systems then maybe we could draw the connection that him and VB were buddies. By the time VB came to Florida he was the "big cheese" and had way more on the line to risk telling some airmen, civi type secrets that were classified regarding Roswell.

He may have told him if anything about the silver foil, but VB always denied talking about bodies.

Just a hint the Roswell craft used a balloon type landing cushion, something we would use in later space/lander missions when we developed a material strong enough and light enough to endure the pressurization and landing shock. At the time we could not replicate the material characteristics of the "silver foil" as well as we designed craft to produce as little "un-intentional" debris as possible especially when talking about landers on another planet, since odd object investigation would waste time if it turned out it was just debris from the landing bags.

Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Sort of like considering a defendant guilty until he is proven innocent.

We have no proof so far that aliens exist. This is a scientific unknown. Therefore, anyone claiming that they do, and that they have a story/evidence for such existence, has implicitly accepted a burden of proof. It's up to them to prove their case, not for anyone else to prove them wrong.

And you have PROOF no aliens exist, I presume, which I would like to request here and now to back up such a blanket statement and a huge reason why real pieces of information get thrown out with the rest! There are MANY who have proven their cases, MANY! So I suggest it is YOUR turn in the courtroom to PROVE otherwise - this is not a thread about whether or not there are aliens - but this comment here and now is just the kind of thing that discredits where discrediting is NOT due or deserved. Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc.", none hold up with one hundred percent of the people who claim to have had personal contact, because for that to be true, that means out of hundreds of thousands of personal testimonies, NOT A SINGLE ONE is based in truth. Hm.. no closed minds there!

Originally posted by kshaund
But my point is just because all he has is a story doesn't automatically 'negate' it either! Because he hasn't come out with all his details doesn't mean they're not there.

True.

However, he point blank refuses to do so, for a variety of reasons. While he claims he is doing this to support Dr. Mitchell, his behavior demonstrates otherwise. He is attempting to cash in on the coverage of Dr. Mitchell's claims with a story he has never told before.

Originally posted by kshaund
Is there nothing in your life you've had to ask people to just take your word on it because you have no "proof"?

Well, certainly. However, rare is it those claims are claims of the extrodinary. Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence.

And rare is it people in my life are trying to make money off of those claims.

Originally posted by kshaund
That for me is enough to NOT close the book on him or anyone else simply because they don't meet an unrealistic expectation of proof

It is not unrealistic to expect supporting, verifiable facts.

Originally posted by kshaund
And you have PROOF no aliens exist, I presume, which I would like to request here and now to back up such a blanket statement and a huge reason why real pieces of information get thrown out with the rest!

Oh dear. Were you not reading? I never said aliens didn't exist. I never said I had proof. Therefore, I have no burden of proof.

This seems to be the gut response when believers are told that the burden of proof lies upon their shoulders. I'm sorry it seems so unfair, but that's just how it works. You're the one making claims, so you're the one who has to back them up.

but this comment here and now is just the kind of thing that discredits where discrediting is NOT due or deserved.

How is a statement about who bears the burden of proof meant to discredit? I'm not following your logic here.

Furthermore, the only way to tell if discrediting is or is not due is to test the story and evidence!

Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc.", none hold up with one hundred percent of the people who claim to have had personal contact, because for that to be true, that means out of hundreds of thousands of personal testimonies, NOT A SINGLE ONE is based in truth. Hm.. no closed minds there!

I never made any of those comments.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Then it's all just a matter of time - I do think the less credible a story is, the faster it falls apart over time. That he has not disclosed is no reason to judge. I don't know why people expect that they should be able to ask 'any' question they want and get an answer. I've worked with different researchers over the decades, and at times there is stuff they simply don't want to disclose at that time and/or especially to that person, whoever and whatever that circumstance is. I don't get why people think they have the right to ask and receve the answer to any question and if declined, take that as a 'reason' to not believe.

I just think these criteria for judging the value of a story is a waste of time and energy and the real reason no one gets anywhere fast.

I'm FAR more interested on whether or not there are 8-9 foot aliens and if so, what's THEIR agenda and role in all this? I think that was the title of this thread after all - so anyone have any other stories to add about critters that match this description?

Here is his first post here. He seems to be looking for help in getting his books published and some income flowing.

If NASA canned him for what he knows and is willing to talk about then where is this information that is so damaging to NASA or the government or at least points to a cover up.

A question I have is whether the book information is any different or more in depth then what is on his web site.

Posted by KSCVeteran, on November 19, 2007 at 09:24 GMT

Hello to all at ATS: (11-19-2007)
I released that article about Astronaut Dr. Story Musgrave. He visited my home town two years ago and we renewed our past friendship. I was his ScO, for the shuttle missions flown by him.
Dr. Story Musgrave AND Astronaut (Apollo 14) Dr. Edgar Mitchell are two
courageous cosmic space travelers. We are very fortunate to have such
heroes release such TOP SECRET information!!
I know the price some brave people pay. I lost all my retirement, health benefits, home, marriage, family, etc., because of my being the REAL X-FILES at Cape Canaveral and the Kennedy Space Center, Florida for half my life (1958 to 1992). The Federal Government will NOT allow my books to be published!!
I was a US Space Program pioneer, before NASA was created!
Before my friends, Musgrave and Mitchell were astronauts.
I need help to publish my three books disclosing astonishing events I and many astronauts experienced during those years! What I have to release, will remove the curtain and expose the TRUTH about UFOs and Aliens on earth!
Is there any of you out there that can assist in this effort??
Can ATS form a group to help ME inform the people on earth? I NEED HELP!! We, the PEOPLE, must take action to break this secrecy!
Clark C. McClelland, former ScO, NICAP Director, MUFON, Space Shuttle Fleet, Kennedy Space Center, Florida

Why doesn't someone try to contact Mitchell and ask him if he knows this guy? I mean does he have his own site? I'm at work or I would do it.

I don't know how to do this crap but here is a link to Mitchell's bulliten board. Don't even know if he posts there, but he does have a web site.

www.edmitchellapollo14.com...



[edit on 31-7-2008 by GeneralLee]

Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by kshaund
And you have PROOF no aliens exist, I presume, which I would like to request here and now to back up such a blanket statement and a huge reason why real pieces of information get thrown out with the rest!

Oh dear. Were you not reading? I never said aliens didn't exist. I never said I had proof. Therefore, I have no burden of proof.

This seems to be the gut response when believers are told that the burden of proof lies upon their shoulders. I'm sorry it seems so unfair, but that's just how it works. You're the one making claims, so you're the one who has to back them up.

but this comment here and now is just the kind of thing that discredits where discrediting is NOT due or deserved.

How is a statement about who bears the burden of proof meant to discredit? I'm not following your logic here.

Furthermore, the only way to tell if discrediting is or is not due is to test the story and evidence!

Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc.", none hold up with one hundred percent of the people who claim to have had personal contact, because for that to be true, that means out of hundreds of thousands of personal testimonies, NOT A SINGLE ONE is based in truth. Hm.. no closed minds there!

I never made any of those comments.

Clarification - (darn words on screens can be too ambiguous!) By you writing "there is no evidence aliens exist" I took to mean YOU believed that personally - however, I still say there IS evidence and plenty of it that aliens exist and have sone so here forever. Still have no idea how you can say there is NO evidence! After all that's out there, to say this still is not being a skeptic, it's being a basher - deny at all costs.

My comment to spare the excuses for all people who claim actual contact with an et, was to prevent the predictable rebuttal to no proof of aliens because (all) "people who claim to have seen an et were mistaken, liars, drunk, etc." - it only takes ONE real sighting of an et to prove they exist - and in the hundreds of thousands of real sightings, photos, etc. etc. to still deny is ridiculous. Many aren't true, absolutely - but not all. And to say science hasn't? That's not true either. Such blanket statements are what I get riled about - does more harm than good and defeats the point of being here -

It's been said before, there is never evidence good enough for a skeptic because their minds are closed. And I personally believe the time to try and prove is way gone - there are far more urgent things to disclose if we could get on with it!

Originally posted by kshaund
Still have no idea how you can say there is NO evidence! After all that's out there, to say this still is not being a skeptic, it's being a basher - deny at all costs.

Ok, you got me on that one. I shouldn't have said "no evidence". There is another thread that addresses that very question, and you're right--it's not fair to state no evidence. I should rephrase that to "no existing evidence has proven that aliens exist".

Regarding people with first-hand sightings/experiences/etc, I don't think they're all liars, drunks, crazy. It's a case by case basis. As you can see from this particular gentleman in question, there are just too many things that don't add up to consider him credible. In the end, it doesn't matter, because first hand accounts still need to be verified in some way. Don't mistake the diligence that needs to be paid to a scientific process for some kind of need to simply discredit people.

Anyhow, back to the story....

This is only slightly off topic, but I am very pleased with the rational, thoughtful, and productive mentalities being presented on this thread. Even those of you who are acting jaded or are not fully looking at the information are being CIVIL!

I was really starting to lose hope, and even though many on ATS will still give their obtuse "It's a bird, he's senile!" posts, I couldn't be happier to see this discussion represent what ATS is all about.

Wonderful, really wonderful. Please keep it up.

Originally posted by kshaund
And you have PROOF no aliens exist, I presume, which I would like to request here and now to back up such a blanket statement and a huge reason why real pieces of information get thrown out with the rest!

Actually, he said as much. It is a scientific unknown.

Originally posted by kshaund
Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc."

He never said that. No one here is saying that. You are ascribing attitudes for which you have no proof for, based on nothing other than a caricature of skeptics that exists only in the mind of believers who do not look at the issue with a rational-eye, but a religious mentality.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by kshaund

Originally posted by kshaund
Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc."

He never said that. No one here is saying that. You are ascribing attitudes for which you have no proof for, based on nothing other than a caricature of skeptics that exists only in the mind of believers who do not look at the issue with a rational-eye, but a religious mentality.

Again to clarify - meant to avoid someone spending the time to write a post and explain why "all" witnesses aren't credible - did not intend to sound like I was accusing anyone of saying it - yet -

It's just common sense (which really isn't very common anymore) - that hundreds of thousands of testimonies can't all be "false" and I get irked when it's all generalized -

Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by kshaund
Still have no idea how you can say there is NO evidence! After all that's out there, to say this still is not being a skeptic, it's being a basher - deny at all costs.

Ok, you got me on that one. I shouldn't have said "no evidence". There is another thread that addresses that very question, and you're right--it's not fair to state no evidence. I should rephrase that to "no existing evidence has proven that aliens exist".

Regarding people with first-hand sightings/experiences/etc, I don't think they're all liars, drunks, crazy. It's a case by case basis. As you can see from this particular gentleman in question, there are just too many things that don't add up to consider him credible. In the end, it doesn't matter, because first hand accounts still need to be verified in some way. Don't mistake the diligence that needs to be paid to a scientific process for some kind of need to simply discredit people.

Anyhow, back to the story....

Fair enough - thanks for understanding and clarifying

Originally posted by RiotComing
reply to post by CaptGizmo

 

ScO - it's YOUR responsibility to find out these things and not (somewhat proudly) display your ignorance by not even bothering to do even a simple Google.

Thrashee, yes we get it.. we know what you think of him. You're like a broken record. I would kindly appreciate if you refrained from posting the same sentiments over and over ad nauseum. It's not providing anything of value to the thread, other than being a nuisance. Thank you.

Actually I would think the OP of the thread...being You would have that information....being that there is no such acronym that I can seem to find associated with Nasa...the only person I can find that acronym attached to their name is Clark McClelland in articles or interviews on Ufo web pages.In fact I can't find him mentioned anywhere on Nasa...here is a complete list of every former astronauts....and he is not there.Sorry but I will say it again it is in my opinion that this guy is a fraud.

www.jsc.nasa.gov...

[edit on 7/31/2008 by CaptGizmo]

[edit on 7/31/2008 by CaptGizmo]

The more I read from this guy, the more I understand why none of his books have been published, and it has nothing to do with the government. This man, bless his heart, needs an editor in the worst way.

I think that he just tells himself ,and us, that it is the government that keeps his books from being published when the truth is that he is a terrible writer. And I'm convinced that the only time the government would step in and--at most--edit his manuscripts is if he talked about classified information. I have no doubt they would allow any talk about aliens to be published, though, because any talk of aliens (classified or not) comes with a strong dose of ridicule, as you can plainly see. Just how the government likes it. So let the man write about aliens, I'm sure they say.

Another reason why he might be not published is because he seems like he might be difficult to work with. Publishers don't like having demands put on them, especially regarding money, and especially by someone who has never sold a book before, and he just seems to be the type.

Anyway- I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions.

Originally posted by kshaund

Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Sort of like considering a defendant guilty until he is proven innocent.

We have no proof so far that aliens exist. This is a scientific unknown. Therefore, anyone claiming that they do, and that they have a story/evidence for such existence, has implicitly accepted a burden of proof. It's up to them to prove their case, not for anyone else to prove them wrong.

And you have PROOF no aliens exist, I presume, which I would like to request here and now to back up such a blanket statement and a huge reason why real pieces of information get thrown out with the rest! There are MANY who have proven their cases, MANY! So I suggest it is YOUR turn in the courtroom to PROVE otherwise - this is not a thread about whether or not there are aliens - but this comment here and now is just the kind of thing that discredits where discrediting is NOT due or deserved. Please spare the "every person who claims to have actually seen an alien is nuts, on drugs, brainwashed, etc. etc.", none hold up with one hundred percent of the people who claim to have had personal contact, because for that to be true, that means out of hundreds of thousands of personal testimonies, NOT A SINGLE ONE is based in truth. Hm.. no closed minds there!

(This is not directly posted to you, kshaund, but you brought up the 'evidence'/'proof' argument.)

And what 'proof' will work? Eyewitness testimony from the most credible of people; no, the skeptics refuse to believe their stories. Photo images; no, everything is photoshopped or just plain fake. Videos; no, CGI. Government documents; no. Military radar; no. Documented Military confrontations; no. Presidents admitting existence of UFO's; no (Eisenhower on TV, Carter, etc.). Alien artifacts; no.

I think the only 'proof' possible is personal experience. Thank God more and more people are coming forward with their personal experiences. And more and more of these people are reputable and stable. I know they are real, through my own experiences. But to the people that haven't had experiences and deny the possibility, it seems that no amount of 'proof', despite the quality of it, will change their minds. I honestly believe that if world leaders came out and said that ETs exist, people would still deny and say that the governments are up to something fishy.

The only possible proof that will convince certain people is personal experience. Its a tiring argument, because the person without personal experience can deny, deny, deny. And those with experiences cannot bring any amount of proof forward to convince most skeptics.

The U.S government has denied the truth far too long. Stories like this are becoming common place, and the media seems to be covering only "relevent" topics. Our country & society has been trained to believe oil, and the economy are the only things relevent to our daily lives. The fact is ET's and all his friends aren't going to bring down oil prices, or solve our national debt or stimulate our economy and fix the housing market. So move on people there is nothing here to see.

reply to post by Sickscent


I just wish we could convince him to come over here and get interviewed for a podcast or something.

I know he is afraid of being bullied, and I don't believe anything he says, but if he is truly interested in laying it out there he should come talk to somebody even if it isn't in a thread.

Otherwise this is just pointless. This thread would have been thrown out in a court of law because it is simple hearsay.

I agree that personal experiences carry a lot of weight, but he won't tell us his experience so what can we do but doubt?

Originally posted by emsed1[/i
Otherwise this is just pointless. This thread would have been thrown out in a court of law because it is simple hearsay.

That's a silly thing to say. We would have no threads at all in the Aliens and UFO forum if they had to fit your narrow criteria.