The tri-lobed Egyptian bowl

There was a thread here on ATS, about a theory that the blocks which made up the Pyramids, where cast on site, after the limestone had been liquified and moved to the site, could this item have been used in that process? to remove air bubbles and keep the liquified limestone liquid until used?

I cant seem to find the link to the thread, but I am sure someone else remembers it.

Like with modern methods, movement within cement or concrete is a must, just we have machines to do it for us, this could have been their machine.

reply to post by zatara


Hello Zatara,
My first thoughts were that this was a propeller too, so I mounted the item onto an electric canoe, went down to the creek, hopped in,twisted the throttle and went nowhere. it was not producing thrust axially, maybe it needed a shroud ie thruster style. I could not mount a shroud without rebuilding the rear end of the canoe,a lot of work.
My thoughts then turned to making a two part housing to see if it would function as an impeller for a water pump and this where I'm at now. this will be finnished soon,so stay tuned.

If this artifact is an impeller or otherwise functions in a rotary manner, how does the edge-on asymmetry come into play?

Is this obvious asymmetry the product of imperfect workmanship or does it in some way enhance the functional characteristics (assuming that it possesses a mechanical purpose)?

I read elsewhere a suggestion that it could be some sort of a rotary mixing device, though I think it might be more effective in that capacity if the the 'fins' were slightly obliquely twisted.

A curious relic to say the least. It's unfortunate that the location of its discovery isn't more revealing of its use or purpose.

After looking at that device, I was wondering, thinking, that it could have been used for either, breaking wheat from the stock... Don't know how well that will work, but that was my first thought. Especially seeing how that was a major source of power and food, then and now. And then the second idea, I was thinking perhaps that was used to help moor ancient Royal ships. The open loop could be for when the waters are calm, and the twisted backward metal is when the water/weather requires a more secured tie down.


I haven't read this entire thread, so I don't know if both of those concepts have been talked about yet, but that's what I'm thinking while taking into consideration what is known about that time, with regards to boating and politics.


--Charles Marcello


[edit on 1-1-2010 by littlebunny]

reply to post by GoneGrey


Hello Gone Grey,
I would propose that the asymmetrical shape of the item creates 3 pressure waves at the leading edge of the folded lobes, add this to the centrifugal movement of the fluid from id to od while spinning and we might be heading in the right direction.
The tomb of PRINCE Sabu says to me that as a prince he would have being an educated man-but educated in what? Maybe in the ways of water and it's movements. the a.e. where very competent in waterworks. These are just my personal thoughts.

My first thought would be center tent post cap. Three ropes tied to six post rope looped over turned up lip on bowl. This would make the tent larger inside by supporting the ceiling of the tent. Im thinking along the lines of a tent for a traveling king who could afford the custom one of a kind tent.


[edit on 1-1-2010 by JBA2848]

reply to post by azzllin

hello Azzllin,
As far as the pyramids being built from moulded cement or a geopolymer I dont know, but what I know from my own personal observations the rocks behind the outer stones are a mad hog-pog of rocks of different sizes and shapes with no evidence of moulded uniformity, I'm prepaired to keep an open mind about the casting stones though, if the tri-lobe bowl was a cement mixer used for the manufacture of the casting stones......cool I'll accept that, this still fits into my propositon that this is a practical device and NOT an ornamental bowl or a religious artifact.

reply to post by JBA2848


hello JBA2848,
Interesting idea, but not applicable to this item because the AE's would have fabricated a tent support out of timber-- much stronger,lighter and less work and effort. The AE's were very practical people... why do more work than is needed.
when one stands beside this item in the cairo museum and ponders on the amount of time,effort, skill and work to produce this item....keep in mind that this is caved out of a single piece of stone and it is thin 3-5mm thick....one slip of the hammer and disaster....start again....months of work wasted.
the item in the cairo museum is not a working piece-IMO it is a visual represntation of an item to be cast in metal as suggested by Emery, then one would have an item that would be functional, Once again these are just my personal thoughts.

reply to post by tri-lobe-1


After reading your posts I was thinking that same thing, the so called impellers have no pitch so they will not do any work. Both pump impellers and propellers need to have pitched blades or fins to push/throw liquid or gas.

This reminded me of some kind of nautical cleat for securing rope.
Maybe this could be used for making rope or winding/unwinding fabric.

reply to post by Devino

hello Devino,
Pitched propellers and centrifugal impellers are designed and built on different principles because they do different jobs. Nearly all impellers are just flingers and they come many styles. They can have vanes usually 6 to 10 but they are NOT pitched,, Actually pitched vanes would cause cavitation in a centrifugal pump and thats a no-no.
Rope and thread making was happening all over egypt so IMO we should have more examples of this item.... and we don't. We have several fine boats of the AE's and there's no examples of the tri-lobe bowl aboard these. So the mystery still remains...

reply to post by Hanslune


Did anybody come up with the suggestion that it is part of a threshing machine?

It would seem the most logical.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


hello mindcrime,
Here's a logical question... how does the item separate the grain from the chalf? just asking, I'm not knocking your question.

reply to post by tri-lobe-1


Well first, i am going by other artifacts found in the grave. Pottery, flint, stone vessels, arrows, animal bones etc.

All things relate to food, the preperation, preservation or domestication. I guess that was a pretty big deal back then.

So one would suspect the tri-lobed bowl to be involved into this as well.

When i looked at the process of separating the grain from stalks and husks from this video...

Early threshing machine

i got the notion that this bowl was maybe a part of some early model thresing machine. The bowl would have been spnning on it's axes and grain stalks would be stuck into the spinning bowl while the three "flaps"would hit the stalks. Making the husks etc. fly up and the grain collected in the bowl....

I really have no basis for this theory and would not be surprised if this is completly incorrect.

Peace

reply to post by Hanslune


My initial thought of the object is that it looked like the base to hold a pole, or something, that went through the middle of it. Kind of like what holds a large umbrella in the center of an outside table.

I remembered seeing something similar to this when I was younger. (Bear in mind this is from my memory only so it may not be 100% accurate.) When I was a child my mother had a candle holder that had something very similar to this at the center of it, although being on a much smaller scale, made of metal not sure what kind of metal though. The thing that resembled this object was at the center of an ornate display that included very delicate other pieces with it. When the flame from the candle heated up the metal it would cause the whole thing to slowly turn, I don’t know if the piece at the middle was the cause of the turning as it was a long time ago, and I was very young.

I may be incorrect of it matching exactly to this, and unfortunately my mother does not have the decorative candle holder anymore, or I could provide a picture. I just thought it was interesting that this object reminded me of a piece of a very interesting candle holder from my youth.

reply to post by tri-lobe-1


Hi tri-lobe-1,
I was under the impression that your example of the bowl that you built, which was a brilliant example by the way, was cavitating and therefore no work was being done. I have used several different types of "paddle" mixers for mixing paint, sheet rock mud, thin-set...etc and they do have some kind of angled pitch to the blades. Even a coat hanger will work on a drill if you bend the mixing end into an 'S' shape.

Here are some examples of impellers all of which show angled or pitched blades.

I have rebuilt several different kinds of pumps so my knowledge is not in design but rather an understanding of how these things work and my observations are form this perspective. One thing I noticed is the seemingly fragile nature of the original artifact, made from stone. I don't think that this could handle the stress of being used as a wheel in connection with any liquid, concrete mixing or grain handling. Even if it could its design looks like a very bad example of any impeller I have ever seen and I would guess that it would fail to actually do any work.

Rope and thread making was happening all over egypt so IMO we should have more examples of this item.... and we don't.

That's a good point, never-the-less I had no idea how it could have worked anyway. Rope making would run off of three spools and wrapped together in a twisting motion.

We have several fine boats of the AE's and there's no examples of the tri-lobe bowl aboard these.

I believe these boats were also found with oars and sail rigging.

My thoughts keep going back to the cleat idea yet the direction is towards the center suggesting that it could have held something in that direction like the top center of an umbrella of tent.
Similar to this tent pole I found from this site.

ADD: Notice how there are two different kinds of poles, one holding up this item from the bottom and another sitting on top. I would assume that there is a separation and not just a hole going all the way through.

[edit on 1/5/2010 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino


Hello Divino,
Thank you very much for your most informative reply, I realy appreciated the impeller link. What a fine collection of impellers, propellers and fans....Many of the examples do not have pitch....Many of the examples with pitch only move air,ie turbo charger, there-fore cavitation is not an issue.
I too have rebuilt many water pumps in my working life- I work in a power station, I'm a fitter and machinist by trade.
I follow Emerys' [ the man who excavated Prince Sabu's tomb] opinion that this stone item is possibly a visual representation of an item to be made in metal, ie copper or bronze. This would enable the bowl to be strong enough to be of practicle use, what ever that use may be.
Now to the topics of rope twisters, nautical cleats,tent pole caps and umbrella tops or supports--- Wouldn't the item in the photo below suffice?....Less work and effort, made out of timber,lighter and cheaper to make. Devino, mate thank-you for your well thought out reply.

reply to post by tri-lobe-1


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b0e1f1701b28.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by operation mindcrime

hello mindcrime.
Well first- it seems that you didn't notice that Prince Sabu was a prince....he would have had servants to deal with the mundane issues of food preparation,preservation and animal butchery. Why would he be concerned with these issues when he is raised and bred for higher aims? Not knocking your response.... just asking questions.

reply to post by tri-lobe-1


You got me there, man.

I really have no idea and the fact that he was a prince would indeed make it strange. It was just a shot in the dark because i know to little about egyptian culture and traditions etc.

I will be following your thread with great interest and if you are able to find a possible explanation for this device.

Have you considered U2U'ing Byrd, one of ATS's super moderators. He knows a lot about these things.

Peace