Positive Reinforcement and the Online Community = Mind Control?

Good Points....S+F

We should group think this

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
This topic is NOT meant to take away from or be seen as any more important than other current discussions, if this is what you think is going on here I can respect that. I assure you that is not the intent.

Then what is the intent?

I'm not seeing anything regarding positive/negative reinforcement on a wide scale...I'm seeing a focus on this site.

I have MSN messenger and every time I log in, I get the MSN news page, which I close every time.

Today? A news headline advertising how best to "kiss". Now, I understand that every site isn't picking up this 'news story' but there it is. A social insistence where there should be a more focused attention to the 'issues'.

Why are you so worked up over this?

Think about that for a while, if you are able.

It is quite possible that no matter what I do here you would never be able to believe it.

I come to this forum specifically because I have encountered reasoned debate on interesting topics. I come to this site specifically because there is a huge diversity on topic.

I also have a myspace account...and a facebook.

I don't go to either to harp on there Admin decisions. Despite the fact that I think that each site is far and away lacking in objective reasoning. I go there because my friends are there. I come here for the relevant news and interpretations.

I am worked up over this for the reason that I hop sites and a prominent theme that I find here is 'ATS this' and 'ATS that'. I see it as wasted effort and energy, because at least this site seems intent on presenting the topics that prove our leaders are corrupt. But instead of focusing on that, I encounter a ton of threads that decry ATS as 'fill-in-the-blank etc.'.

Seems a waste to me.

Are you 100% sure that you are not providing a conditioned response to this thread?

Conditioned how? Perhaps you should also examine your 'conditioned' response. Why so obsessed about the interworkings of a single website?

Maybe you were dropped as a child, and don't feel loved enough.

There are a multitude of sites discussing these issues, anyone who relies on corporate mass media for news coverage would be a fool. ATS is not alone in that regard. This is only one thread among thousands, again I ask why do you seem so annoyed or bothered by this one irrelevant thread?

I am sorry you are bothered by this, yet thrilled that you replied... Perhaps if there are more replies and you can attempt to have an open mind soon you will see exactly why.

Don't question my open mind.

I contend that this irrelevant thread (you are correct in that assessment, despite my personal insistence) is nothing more than an attempt to refocus people's attention from the relevant issues to your seemingly bent out of shape experience with this website.

Why did I respond?

Because the thread title had the promise of discussion upon internet technique, it seemed to promise the discussion of various 'peacock' feather attention gathering strategies with relation to user reaction.

You disappointed.

And as someone who was drawn in by your 'positive reinforcement' I feel ripped by the fact that you actually had an agenda. And it damn well seems like that.

This is my last response to this BS thread....

Originally posted by intrepid

Thread closed?

Nope.

Dammit, are you sure?

Too bad, we may have to do this anyway.

Though it is more likely that this 'irrelevant' thread will be avoided like the plague... So in essence we may be done here, though if you are really interested, perhaps soon you may be able to read a full scientific report on this very topic.

Then again, exploring it here could have been far more enlightening and entertaining.

I believe you and I both know that isn't going to happen now.

Thanks for reading what you have, and for the venue to discuss this as well as just about any other topic so far without any censorship.

Can mind control be used in an online community such as this through the use of positive and negative reinforcement?

Stay tuned.

reply to post by TrustMeIKnow


Thanks again, for your reply.

I apologize for your feeling disappointed, I can only tell you that exploring a topic like this here is nearly impossible for many reasons... First not to discount your participation, lack of interest, this is not something that people can find plausible for many reasons. If it is true then exploring it here really will not produce anything, will it? You were hoping to find things here that you did not and feel ripped off?

You sure expect quick results from a highly speculative subject don't you?

Are you always so easily annoyed and impatient?

Thanks again.

A few things before this drops into the abyss of dead threads.

I have been accused of having an agenda, for the record I have nothing to gain by doing this, no agenda, I was drawn here just like everyone else, I am not an active member of any other online community. Does anyone who raises questions that could apply to ATS always have to have some kind of agenda?

If you do not believe that positive reinforcement can be used to control the minds of subjects, I suggest you do a little research on it on your own, you could be surprised by what you will find.

This thread quickly became dominated by alerted staff members for a reason. Yet there was no reason for it.

This was not meant to accuse ATS of mind control, however since it uses both positive and negative reinforcements in so many ways on its productive and non-productive members, the possibilities are worthy of exploration, however without the participation of members that really can't happen here, can it?

Is there a reason for the lack of participation?

Who knows?

Bottom line, I had and have no agenda, what I brought up here was nothing more than whatever the reader takes from it.

Okay, now you can proceed with my public lynching.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Have any of you now actively participating in forums here at ATS ever considered the possibility that you may be influenced, perhaps over time even controlled by the use of positive reinforcement here in this 'online community'?

Absolutely not!!

There are many, many times I have put hard work into presenting a case in a thread and there was no applause when I figured there might be one, and then get applauded for something I added that was not that important to me...

So I would disagree that anyone was trying to steer my thoughts in any direction.. I post what I am interested in... and do get surprised when a thread gets dumped into skunkworks but I keep going... some are hits; some are not; purely random... and based more on who sees it before it moves to far down on the new post list and out of sight

Many time you post something.. even several times in different threads... and it gets no notice... then a long comes a newbie, posts the same thing from the same source and the thread is an overnight success... purely random...

There are so many threads and so many posters things go by unnoticed some days... That is why the flag is great as it puts it on the plate again... The Anon Poster is good for dragging up old one too

As to Positive Reinforcement in General...

I ran a Medieval group for many years... the group was purely volunteer... and required hard work and personal expenses from the members to participate... the ONLY reward other than the few moments of fun between setup and tear down was Positive Reinforcement

Being called up by the Court in front of the rest to get that pat on the back in public... getting that certificate to hand on the wall... earning 'points' for that all important knighthood... I have seen grown men in tears receiving that award...

This is the payment for a job well done.. without it your volunteers would soon become bitter and vanish...

Same thing here... without the stars, the flags, the applause... people would soon loose interest in generating user content and say "Why bother? No one cares..."
and the board would be left with a bunch of grumpy debunkers patting each other on the back and telling each other how right they are

So no mind control here... just a payment for work well done... most of the time



PS I accept chocolate chip cookies

Maybe the ATS Point store could add those to the list?

[edit on 31-7-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
There are many, many times I have put hard work into presenting a case in a thread and there was no applause when I figured there might be one, and then get applauded for something I added that was not that important to me...

So I would disagree that anyone was trying to steer my thoughts in any direction.. I post what I am interested in... and do get surprised when a thread gets dumped into skunkworks

but I keep going... some are hits; some are not; purely random... and based more on who sees it before it moves to far down on the new post list and out of sight

First of all thank you for an excellent post.

At least someone was willing to say something here.

The two paragraphs above contain elements of interest to me, I am working on something related to this, and will get back to you on this at a later date. Since you stepped forward I will also examine your posting history as well as other possible factors.

This is a work in progress, I should have waited to do this... But I needed member feedback like yours... Others would be greatly appreciated as well, but I don't expect much more.

Still, anyone can post any thoughts on this, you would be helping me out here.

I am far from done here!

This thread may vanish, however the investigation continues.

I'll revisit this thread with the findings when I am done.



[edit on 1-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


You might be interested in reading the related topic on this subject at,
Positive reinforcement online: a different perspective. Not Mind Control.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

This thread may vanish, however the investigation continues.

I'll revisit this thread with the findings when I am done.



[edit on 1-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Why would the thread vanish? You think there is a big conspiriacy at ATS to cover up your so called investigation into mind control using positive reinforcement at ATS? lol.

And since when did "your" investigation become "THE" investigation? More false emphasis on your part!

Stop using drama to create an issue that simply does not exist. And if you are actually trying to investigate the subject why have you hidden from all the arguments against you in my related thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com... e=1#pid4731726

reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra


I am not hiding from nothing, why are you so confrontational?

Without evidence there really is not much to discuss at this time.

By the way what you quoted did not imply that there would be a cover up, it implied that this thread would fall from lack of interest, read both lines again.

However, thank you, for bringing it back to life.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

No, IF it is proven beyond a doubt that you have been a subject of a mind control experiment here, leaving ATS could be dangerous, because IF there is that level of mind control over long term users then it is possible that there are implanted suggestions in the subjects which in case of leaving could potentially harm that subject.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

What a load of ...

The only danger is people believing that kind of pop pseudo psychology that people with no psychological knowledge pedal. Stop spreading dangerous unfounded ideas of yours as if they were factual in any way.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra

 

I am not hiding from nothing, why are you so confrontational?

...

However, thank you, for bringing it back to life.

Why thank me? You mean this thread is all about points grabbing? What a surprise. Mmmm.

I have challenged you to a serious debate in my related thread to this subject. But I guess you wouldn't be interested in that as it wouldn't get you more points! lol.

Originally posted by UFOpsychiczebra
Why thank me? You mean this thread is all about points grabbing? What a surprise.

Mmmm.

Your persistence is interesting, as for the points, I believe I had just under 10,000 I tried to get rid of it all but can't if I could give them away I would... I have no need for them, nor any other symbolic rewards.

I thank you, despite your confrontational tone because you seem at least interested in the subject, although bent on disproving that which cannot yet be proven.

If you are patient, I will give you my word that when I am ready... And it WILL take time, YOU will be the first person I will want to have a debate with... They have a debate forum, I suppose we can do that there.... The only question I have for you is... Are you willing to wait?

If not, then carry on, but for now you may as well be talking to a wall!



[edit on 2-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

I would like to confirm my personal belief that ATS is not using reinforcements to influence or control the minds of anyone here.

I cannot prove that anything is going on here, in fact the only things I can prove are the things that most of you already know.

If any of you got the wrong idea from this thread, or assumed that I had an agenda, I want to tell you some things, I posted on this here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you have any questions or comments post them.

As far as I am concerned, this speculative theory can now fall into the pile of threads that have been debunked.

Can reinforcements be used to control the minds of online users?

It is possible, first there has to be a clear motive for those who apply the reinforcements, that does not exist here at ATS, most importantly you must have people who are weak minded, easily manipulated, or controlled. The members of ATS are not ever easily manipulated, weak minded, nor can be in any way influenced or controlled.

THE END

Not everyone is wired this way...to get excited about or strive for recognition, either positive or negative. Maybe someone wants us to be, but we're not all that way. The same thing's been happening to us since birth. Do this, don't do that, you get a cookie or get spanked. It is societal conditioning to a degree, and some thrive on the negative attention, some on the positive. I maintain though that some people just aren't affected either way...they believe in what they stand for and stand for what they believe and no amount of attempted conditioning will waver them. Another thing I've noticed is that people who do strive for recognition, either positive or negative, tend to get very angry with and sometimes even try to ostracize, ridicule, and belittle those who don't. Some sort of classic projection maybe. I don't even know how to say what' I'm attempting to say clearly.