Positive Reinforcement and the Online Community = Mind Control?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Allow me to turn this question around for a second: If you praise the work of someone or sit in delight of the landscape, is that something you have been conditioned to do?

Not necessarily, I see your point. However, and I think perhaps you can agree that what happens HERE verses what happens in 'real life' is not quite the same.

Question for you if I may ask, Have you as a staff member ever been directed by site owners or other staff to applaud, or take actions on a particular post or member or is everything you do done without direction?

More clearly, have you ever been told, or given a suggestion by other staff to applaud, flag, star, etc?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Question if I may ask, how is what is for the betterment of the board for all members actually determined?

A governing body?

Just the owners, advertisers or others??

The T&C is what governs it all. Everyone had to agree to those terms when registering with the exception of Simon. And they apply to everyone.

Can you more directly answer my question?

You said "for the betterment of the board" can you shed any light on how what is for the betterment of the board and its members is actually determined?

Obviously there must be some kind of staff or committee that can review some individual cases and determine what is best for the community right?

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Question if I may ask, how is what is for the betterment of the board for all members actually determined?

A governing body?

Just the owners, advertisers or others??

If I may interject..

What of society in general? What about the various rules and laws that every citizen is subject to in the real world?

You see, we all are trying to live and communicate.

But living and communicating are different.

We are communicating on this board and oddly enough we are communicating the thoughts and experiences that we all encounter while living.

Most people's experience do not concur or agree with everyone else's.

That is why civility, or common courtesy, is required. And that is where the positive reinforcement and 'punishments' are derived from. Do 'you' want to communicate...or do you want to disrupt productive communication.

I believe that you are highlighting the classic argument of subjective vs. objective.

Intrepid is right when he says that all Staff action is subject to review by the rest of staff.

In a subjective world, that is as objective as it gets.

And for the record, if you are questioning the motivations of an applause as something sinister..than perhaps your conditioning is something that should be vetted as well.

We are here to help, after all...

[edit on 27-7-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
More clearly, have you ever been told, or given a suggestion by other staff to applaud, flag, star, etc?

I ocassionally direct fellow Moderators (and members) attention to certain threads in the sense of "Hey Look what Ive found!" - and vice-versa. We wouldnt coerce each other to post or flag certain threads - everyone has a will of their own.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
If I may interject..

What of society in general? What about the various rules and laws that every citizen is subject to in the real world?

You see, we all are trying to live and communicate.

But living and communicating are different.

We are communicating on this board and oddly enough we are communicating the thoughts and experiences that we all encounter while living.

Somehow I get the feeling that there is more than communication going on here, if this was simply a means of communication would there be any need for positive reinforcement at all?

I totally understand the need for civility here, and I appreciate that, so there is no need to convince me of that, I am simply exploring a topic here, and are we not as members encouraged to explore these kind of topics here?

One thing I find a bit alarming and somewhat telling here in this particular thread is the apparent reluctance of the site members to get involved... We are after all simply having a conversation here, everyone is welcome and free to express their views on this, are they not?

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Somehow I get the feeling that there is more than communication going on here, if this was simply a means of communication would there be any need for positive reinforcement at all?

I'll get to your other post in a second. The answer to this one is, go to Yahoo Chat or a similar site. It's a terrible mess where nothing is actually shared.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

Somehow I get the feeling that there is more than communication going on here, if this was simply a means of communication would there be any need for positive reinforcement at all?

You get the feeling that there is more than just communicating occurring...?



Perhaps you could expound upon that...

As for positive reinforcement...intentional or unintentional...would you continue to befriend someone who said, "No," all of the time?

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
You said "for the betterment of the board" can you shed any light on how what is for the betterment of the board and its members is actually determined?

Obviously there must be some kind of staff or committee that can review some individual cases and determine what is best for the community right?

Like I said earlier, we are a team, ALL of the staff. When an issue is brought up it's discussed. Do we all agree? A concensus is built how to determine a course of action. With positive reinforcement it's less so as a reasonable person can decide for themselves what is applaudable content.

Myself
One thing I find a bit alarming and somewhat telling here in this particular thread is the apparent reluctance of the site members to get involved... We are after all simply having a conversation here, everyone is welcome and free to express their views on this, are they not?

Let me expand on this, and I could be proven wrong by a flood of long term member replies following this post.

Does ANY member reading this have thoughts on this topic but finds themselves reluctant to post them here for ANY reason?

[edit on 27-7-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Does ANY member reading this have thoughts on this topic but finds themselves reluctant to post them here for ANY reason?

Reluctant..no.

But I am curious as to what you are on about, seriously.

I don't respond often to threads because I don't feel the need to. I am here to read and learn.

This had the earmarks, based on the thread title, to be an interesting look at the evolution of Pavlovian conditioning as applied to the digital world. But you seem to be intent on something else....

I will continue to read this passive aggressive interaction between yourself and staff with interest, for what's it's worth, though I think that your insinuations are bourne of something beyond speaking to the science of it and resolves more along the 'he said, she said' lines, which is boring, in my opinion.

Edit for Grammar

[edit on 27-7-2008 by TrustMeIKnow]

reply to post by intrepid


I already stated that I see the need for civility, and I have seen what can happen without it, especially in a totally uninhibited online environment.

You guys do an outstanding job in that regard, and in that particular instance deserve praise.

But we seem to be missing my points here. Again I am not alleging anything here, since the internet online community is still relatively new I am simply exploring the possibilities and possible motives of those who run a community of this magnitude from behind the scenes.

Especially one that uses both positive and negative reinforcements in so many ways.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

You get the feeling that there is more than just communicating occurring...?


Perhaps you could expound upon that...

I already have, please read through my posts on page 1.

As for positive reinforcement...intentional or unintentional...would you continue to befriend someone who said, "No," all of the time?

I am sorry, but I am not totally sure about what you are asking here.

Can you clarify?

[edit on 27-7-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Originally posted by TrustMeIKnow

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Does ANY member reading this have thoughts on this topic but finds themselves reluctant to post them here for ANY reason?

Reluctant..no.

Well there is another one, out of thousands, any other members have any thoughts on this topic?

How about the frequent, long term members/users, I would really like to hear from some of you on this... Not hearing from you in a way leans more toward validating my theories... I was hoping it would actually go the other way, obviously some of you are reading this, please let me know what YOU think about it.

Maybe I will be able to rest my case here without presenting any evidence, calling expert witnesses etc.?

Fascinating.

One last chance, if you have any thoughts on this, please post them.

Are you hesitant?

Afraid?

Reluctant?

Wish I would just shut the hell up and go away?

No matter what you think, post it.

To say nothing could actually be seen by some on the outside of this looking in, as meaning that members are actually being controlled here, and consequently are reluctant to involve themselves in a topic such as this.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
To say nothing could actually be seen by some on the outside of this looking in, as meaning that members are actually being controlled here, and consequently are reluctant to involve themselves in a topic such as this.

Not logical. If we were controlling the members don't you think that we would push them to post? This is more logical. It's the slowest time of the week for ATS. Maybe the members that are on don't see this as an issue.

The membership isn't reluctant to post in threads like these, they come up almost daily and are active threads. You'll probably get your replies tomorrow when people are back to work and bored out of their skulls. I know I do.

Originally posted by intrepid
Not logical. If we were controlling the members don't you think that we would push them to post? This is more logical. It's the slowest time of the week for ATS. Maybe the members that are on don't see this as an issue.

Can I reserve judgement on that one for a while?

Maybe they can't see the issue?

The membership isn't reluctant to post in threads like these, they come up almost daily and are active threads. You'll probably get your replies tomorrow when people are back to work and bored out of their skulls. I know I do.

Slow?

According to your stats this thread already has well over 700 page views and this:

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In the previous 6 hours there have been 2,207 members on AboveTopSecret.com domains.

All of these members and we have several posts from staff members, one from an anonymous poster, and a couple other members?

If this is a slow day, I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow!

With that, I'll wait, and see what happens.

reply to post by intrepid


One other thing I'd like to quickly touch on before calling it a day here, isn't it rather strange that a staff member speaks for the membership regarding their reasons for not posting in a thread like this?

I suppose we can leave it at that for now, and call it a day then?

I know extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary proof, however, in this case without the input from members there is virtually no way to explore this topic.

Then again there is always tomorrow right?

By then perhaps we can bury this and move on to other things and push forward the user-generated experimental concept, reach the targeted demographic, create advertising revenue, and restore every-one's sense of importance in this community through the use of positive reinforcement.

Keep the corporate machinery moving forward!

And now we return you to your regularly scheduled, applauded, flagged, starred and important discussions.

Nothing to see here, move along now.

Thread closed?

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
By then perhaps we can bury this and move on to other things and push forward the user-generated experimental concept, reach the targeted demographic, create advertising revenue, and restore every-one's sense of importance in this community through the use of positive reinforcement.

Keep the corporate machinery moving forward!

And now we return you to your regularly scheduled, applauded, flagged, starred and important discussions.

Nothing to see here, move along now.

Ah, there IS an agenda. Maybe the members picked up on this and didn't want to waste their time. I on the other hand have plenty of time. No prob.

Thread closed?

Nope.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
One other thing I'd like to quickly touch on before calling it a day here, isn't it rather strange that a staff member speaks for the membership regarding their reasons for not posting in a thread like this?

There isn't anyone posting on my behalf. And as the sole member posting in your thread 'like this' I still want to call attention to the fact that there are bigger fish to fry. Bush just signed a bill to give retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies. Is that less important than how a particular website is run?

You arespecial, aren't you?

I suppose we can leave it at that for now, and call it a day then?

I thought I did that a few hours ago...but I see your persistence. Question: Can I perhaps enlist your persistence on the more important issues? I like what DimensionalDetective is doing(I am a fan), perhaps we could continue with more relevant topics?

I know extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary proof, however, in this case without the input from members there is virtually no way to explore this topic.

What are we exploring? A website? Let's let Gitmo torture people and let's let Verichip 'legally' force their product into people.

By then perhaps we can bury this and move on to other things and push forward the user-generated experimental concept, reach the targeted demographic, create advertising revenue, and restore every-one's sense of importance in this community through the use of positive reinforcement.

Again, you just betrayed your innocent topic (which I clicked on for already stated reasons) by detailing your attention to what happens here, in a virtual medium!

Whatever, and I hope that I am the only member that responds to you. I could care less for the staff but I care a whole hell of a lot for this site because I am entertained and informed beyond what Fox and CNN can provide me. Find impeachment discussion on their sites and then we can talk about how much of a corporate machine ATS is.

Originally posted by TrustMeIKnow
There isn't anyone posting on my behalf. And as the sole member posting in your thread 'like this' I still want to call attention to the fact that there are bigger fish to fry. Bush just signed a bill to give retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies. Is that less important than how a particular website is run?

First of all thank you for posting.

This topic is NOT meant to take away from or be seen as any more important than other current discussions, if this is what you think is going on here I can respect that. I assure you that is not the intent.

You arespecial, aren't you?

Right! I too am running for president, I am a reptilian Muslim and will present that in the appropriate forum soon for your review.

I thought I did that a few hours ago...but I see your persistence. Question: Can I perhaps enlist your persistence on the more important issues? I like what DimensionalDetective is doing(I am a fan), perhaps we could continue with more relevant topics?

This topic has no relevance, can't you see that?

You are simply stating the obvious aren't you?

What are we exploring? A website? Let's let Gitmo torture people and let's let Verichip 'legally' force their product into people.

Why are you so worked up over this?

Think about that for a while, if you are able.

It is quite possible that no matter what I do here you would never be able to believe it.

Again, you just betrayed your innocent topic (which I clicked on for already stated reasons) by detailing your attention to what happens here, in a virtual medium!

Are you 100% sure that you are not providing a conditioned response to this thread?

Whatever, and I hope that I am the only member that responds to you. I could care less for the staff but I care a whole hell of a lot for this site because I am entertained and informed beyond what Fox and CNN can provide me. Find impeachment discussion on their sites and then we can talk about how much of a corporate machine ATS is.

There are a multitude of sites discussing these issues, anyone who relies on corporate mass media for news coverage would be a fool. ATS is not alone in that regard. This is only one thread among thousands, again I ask why do you seem so annoyed or bothered by this one irrelevant thread?

I am sorry you are bothered by this, yet thrilled that you replied... Perhaps if there are more replies and you can attempt to have an open mind soon you will see exactly why.


[edit on 27-7-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]