The Evil Perspectives On ATS

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
The problem is that the people who govern the society, the people in power who have the ability to make any difference are the one's that are taking from the society

I find it amusing how people on ATS will talk down to others and presume they do not know what they are talking about without even looking in to their beliefs and views beforehand.

Here's a hint "holmes": don't lecture me on what does and does not go on in the world before you know my views of the world.

If you had read a couple of my recent threads, you would pretty much see that I throw those who are governing our society in to the same boat as the weak, the ignorant, the hopeless and the uneducated. I don't hold them to any higher standard. I don't shy away from blaming them for everything.

If you had done that, you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by essentially telling me my own beliefs.

Apologies, the 'IMO' (in my opinion) I drop every now and again is very misleading, but think about this, next time your ill, you rely on someone else's expertise and knowledge to get better, think about that for condemning the weak, a society is built on mutual help of the individual, what you are proposing is an aryan or 'super' race, an elite, NOM? NWO

At the point you need help, you are weak by our own defnition IMO.

EMM

[edit on 27-7-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers The problem is that the people who govern the society, the people in power who have the ability to make any difference are the one's that are taking from the society

Exactly!! This is what central planning, communism, socialism, fascism, NWO all have in common; and that is a strong central body. Having a central all powerful body will not erase these things you mention, on the contrary it will probably make them worse. If you want to avoid this corruption, corporatism and favoritism that occurs in government there is one solution, and that is to minimize government or decentralize it as much as possible. You can't fix corruption and elitism with more power in the hands of those who run the show...that doesn't make sense.

It's funny, tons of lefties and republicans talking about how thing will get better when Obama or Mcain is in office, they are too dumb to realize that the people backing these two knuckleheads are same ones currently running the show.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

The problem is that the people who govern the society, the people in power who have the ability to make any difference are the one's that are taking from the society, yea sure couple of million a year go on homeless, couple more on health issues, drink induced, drug induced, weight induced, maybe a bit more dealing with crime, well, add all that up and times it by whatever you want and you still wouldn't be close to the numbers are dropped here and there, 2 trillion here, 1 trillion there and this is annually, how long has this been happening? 20 years? 30 years? longer?

EMM

...

I am going to HAVE to disagree w/ this. There will always be those who manipulate and try to cheat to get ahead. Is this right? NO! BUT they are here and until ppl start taking responsibility for their OWN lives, they will continue to get by w/ manipulating the idiots. It is up to ppl to educate themselves and quit living in blind ignorance.

THEY BLAME the gov't and yet they turn around and expect the gov't to hold their hand? how in the hell does this make sense?

I hope your wrong, I don't expect it to happen anytime soon, but hopefully one day, we will not have these people who see a need to manipulate the many to help the few.



[edit on 27-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


Did I say drop the medical industry?

I am talking about the people who insist on taking more from society than they give back.

Does that mean the person who makes the occasional doctor's visit is worthless? No.

I'm talking about the people who suck up medications like they're candy. I'm talking about the people who sit in the hospital for 20 years. I'm talking about people who are too poor to pay taxes but live off the medical benefits of those who can contribute taxes to those medical benefits.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
We all have beliefs, and we all believe our beliefs are right. That doesn't create two extremes. That creates 6.5 billion extremes. The trick to find a balance of those extremes is to discuss the beliefs in an intelligent manner to better understand the beliefs of others.

We ALL have our beliefs huh? And you can read my mind so you know this? You could say I believe only two statements but even there I don't really "believe" I just give these statements about 99% chance of being acurate.

Knowledge is knowing you know nothing.

and

Nothing is true and all is possible.

Like I said I only give those statement about 99% chance of being "true". But as a philosopher I know that no language can express "truth" so even my previous sentence is false.

Vas

reply to post by Vasilis Azoth


Personal beliefs and truths are two different things. People can believe something that is not true.

Religion, for example.

Your argument is invalid.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

 

Did I say drop the medical industry?

I am talking about the people who insist on taking more from society than they give back.

Does that mean the person who makes the occasional doctor's visit is worthless? No.

I'm talking about the people who suck up medications like they're candy. I'm talking about the people who sit in the hospital for 20 years. I'm talking about people who are too poor to pay taxes but live off the medical benefits of those who can contribute taxes to those medical benefits.

Yes, ok, assuming it's their fault their poor, as in, they choose to mooch off benefits than to work, but I still don't agree they deserve to be 'thrown away', taking responsibility of oneself isn't about accepting everything that has happened to you is your fault, its the acceptance that too change, we have to change ourselves. People who say, have a bad education, so can't get a good job, do not deserve this, they may have been in a poor community, or involved in social or domsetic upheaval, this can affect there life alot. I'm not sure if you mean to or it's by accident, but you sound like your condeming anyone who doesn't have a similar social standing than yourself, and I know, I have no idea of your social standing, but you seem, IMO to look down on alot of people.

EMM (apologies for spelling mistakes and grammar, please by lenient)

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


I hope not either. But who are you expecting to stop the manipulators? IF you blame them solely (and I get where you are going w/ your line of thinking), but place no blame on those who are allowing themselves to be manipulated or those who are looking for handouts, does that leave those of us relying on ourselves and not being manipulated into believing their lies responsible still to pick up for the slack of those who are relying on the gov't and those behind it?

As long as ppl in this country are crying out to be taken care of, the manipulators will have their leg to stand on.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
reply to post by Vasilis Azoth

 

Personal beliefs and truths are two different things. People can believe something that is not true.

Religion, for example.

Your argument is invalid.

IMO, his argument is very valid, how can you say aything is truth? Our current perception of the world, the universe and how we interact with it, is too young to know a 'truth' when we see it, we consider current perceptions of the word as truth, "the world is flat" was a truth until proven wrong, his argument is only invalid IYO.

Individuality, got to love it.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

 

I hope not either. But who are you expecting to stop the manipulators? IF you blame them solely (and I get where you are going w/ your line of thinking), but place no blame on those who are allowing themselves to be manipulated or those who are looking for handouts, does that leave those of us relying on ourselves and not being manipulated into believing their lies responsible still to pick up for the slack of those who are relying on the gov't and those behind it?

As long as ppl in this country are crying out to be taken care of, the manipulators will have their leg to stand on.

Yea, I admit, with people allowing themselves to be manipulated, the dynamic will never be broken, but people like you and me, who suspect, can't even do anything about it, not yet, at least the 'masses' are ignorant to these possibilites, if this comes to fruition, hopefully most people will see whats going on, but whos worse, them for ignoring certain ideas so dogmatically, or you and me for not doing anything with the knowlege, we can't condemn one without the other.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

If a lion wasn't hungry, it won't kill a gazelle, if a gazelle strays near the lion, (which will hardly ever happen) the lion would kill for the sake of the pride, if the alpha male isn't hungry, the others will eat it. Lions, or any other animal or plant, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't kill on a whim. In the example of the lion, if another lion stray onto their territory, the Alpha male will challenge the intruder, when the intruder is bested, it will see it off, but will not hunt it down unless it is badly injured, if the intruder wins, then yes, it will be killed, but this, THIS, is survival of the fittest, it strengthens the group, not for personal gain. As for respecting the environment, they eat and poo, both biodegrade and actually nourish the land, that is the beauty of nature, may sound clichéd but, thats the circle of life [cue music!]

What is the meaning of selfishness if it is not survival of the fittest, even within the context of the pride? Your response signifies that you believe that animals act altruistically and only kill, when hungry. We both know that is utter nonsense. Animals have been known to attack and or kill other creatures when they feel threatened acting out on a perceived threat is still selfishness since you act to protect yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean by property rights, but I'm gonna guess your refering to territory? and as I mentioned above, all animals have territory, it is based on the size of the 'collective', the bigger the pride, the bigger the territory, as it is needed, just because they don't have a little piece of paper declaring it's theirs, doesn't mean it isn't. You talk about polluting through bombs? since the industrial revolution, we pollute quite a bit, not as much as cows, but still alot lol, now we come to the animals rights, we choose to pollute our environment, but they do not choose to have their environment polluted, we're condemning them along with ourselves, now, tell me more about OUR rights.

No, property rights is not just about land it is knowing that your being/yourself/your consciousness however you want to put it is owned by you and you alone. And those that trespass or cause harm have an obligation to compensate you be it people, lions or the Sate. The State does not believe in property right, meaning your land, your being/yourself/ your consciousness does not belong to you since you are not allowed to decide for yourself what you want to do, eat, the fruits of your labor, or think...you in other words belong to the State, the U.S. Gov, the UN, EU or whatever central authority. We don't chose to pollute our environment, people don't ask corporations to dump their toxic waste, this is what I'm talking about. When the State commits some idiotic blunder who is held accountable? At least if some jackass of a corporation dumped waste in my backyard you can bet I'll hold someone responsible and liable for that. The animals have their property rights polluted as in the case of the African continent precisely because nobody owns the land out there. All the poaching, pollution, occurs on government owned land, not private property. Just go out the Privately owned Safaris or homestays they are the most well kept, non-polluted best animal sanctuaries you will find. To better put it, you will have more degradation, more pollution if no one owns the land since nobody cares, what are the incentives to keep it clean or prevent poachers from wiping out the cute animals.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


how can anyone even begin to say with a straight face that they know the truth..... the truth about NWO, the truth about the reality of reality, good, evil these things are hugely enigmatic and our brains to feeble or to untrained as i like to believe to understand much of anything beyond what our senses can tell us.

most people posting here seem to be pretty dogmatic in their "beliefs" and until that changes and more people become open minded then we as a people will never begin to break the bonds with authority and government but we cannot forsake the ppl who cant let go or are "weak" as some have stated.... we members of ats want to pursue the truth but the "others" arent ready to let go of their perception of truth and its our responsibilty as people to help the weak break the bonds and not feed them to the proverbial lions

a one world government in theory is great no reason for war but thats in theory we are a world of many beliefs and trying to mash all of us together in one paradigm of thinking can only lead to trouble


[edit on 27-7-2008 by constantwonder]

It seems to me that you are just a naive young boy pretending to be an internet villain of some sort. The reality is that you have no idea at all what you are talking about and likely no real notion of what true evil is.


And if and when you are ever unlucky enough to meet it face to face you will likely mess your trousers and squeel like a young girl.


Be extremely careful of what you wish for because you may just get it.


My best advice would be to stop playing WoW for a while and go outside. Sunlight and fresh air will help.

reply to post by Gateway


Yes, fair enough, they may attack when threatened, maybe kill to protect itself, but is that not better than to kill for personal gain? or revenge? or a twisted pleasure of ending a life? you can't compare an animals natural instincts to protect itself, to the chaos we have wreaked across this planet since we have been a dominant species.

As for the NWO, we seem to have similar views, so theres no argument there lol

EMM

reply to post by BlackOps719


to whom are you referring black?

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

Well IMO, we don't own anything we percieve we do, you own your house? well, if the economy goes through, expect all your 'repayment' plans to go out the window, expect banks to be forclosing all over the show, then again, money won't matter and therefore no one will have jobs, no one to come around and take your house for the bank, unless the government step in and do it, then it's protect what you consider yours.

These problems are not a result of market forces. Private companies can't inflate the money supply, and decrease your purchasing power that's the job of the FED. I live within my means, I bought my house with a good down payment and I looked at the loan, and had it explained to me. I made sure I could afford the mortgage, it was a personal responsibility I took to take on this debt burden. I don't despise the mortgage industry, I thank them because they had faith in me that I would pay my mortgage, I'm grateful of our financial system which allowed me to own a home while only putting a fraction of the price of the home as a down payment instead of paying the hundreds of thousands of dollars all up front that I would've paid otherwise. Debt is not inherently a bad thing, though you have to manage it, and live within your means. I don't have one ounce of pity for those losing their homes, why should I? Why should I make you and other taxpayers responsible for my stupidity? It's not fair and its not right. Again, this goes for Bear Stearns, why should taxpayers bare the burden of their stupidity?

All of these problems you mentioned are not due to the market, but rather government interference. That's were we should lay the blame.

As for no better than animals, they have not committed genocide on there fellow animals, they have not commited horrible acts of torture and experimentation on there fellow animals, they have not polluted the environment to such an extent as to place their fellow animals in danger. Is this because they didn't have the means to do so? maybe, how about the mentality? EMM

Again all of these terrible things you discuss are not caused nor instigated by humanity. These are byproducts of the STATE and those connected to it. Your U.S., your U.N., your Iran, your U.K. your CCCP, your Cuba...etc Yet you would like to transform some superbody of a STATE? I hope not.

If animals had the capacity conscious will to unite they would be far more merciless than the human animal, you see at least we have the capacity to know right from wrong, again the ability to respect you and your private property.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by Gateway]

where did the OP go? back to see Dark knight again, so he could think of something else to post about? kidding

ok This thread seemed primed to identify some sociopaths but now, not many bites

Norvus you have some strong opinions, and that is consistant w/ an individual.

How do you get to identify who is a ignorant, weak, or whatever other terms you used? Do you have criteria, is it sometimes just first impression perhaps backed stereotypical beliefs. Weak, ignorant seem like stereotypical words to me, spoken to make things appear more simplistic in the mind to help justify beliefs.

Say you wound up in a bad car wreck and were stuck in the hospital for a long time and you couldn't find work, so you took meds all day for the pain. Then you became depressed, and then wound up addicted to pills, or drinking. Then a guy with beliefs similiar to yours came across you in an everyday setting , might he label you in the same way, with a fair amount of confidence in his own mind. or whatever the situation, people occasionally make bad decisions, life however is not fair, change around some situations in your life (even parents..) and life perhaps would have humbled you...in fact it may humble anyone.....perhaps tommorrow perhaps you hold these beliefs that others are labeled weaker so you feel safer and believe you are stronger so you are not vulnerable. Kind of like faith, people bash religion all the time (and i am not religous) but it seems to me like it is simply an option for a strength in one's belief system. But those same people that bash religion, believe made up/individual stuff (that they believe, that makes sense to them) all day that keep their world together. And they say others are ignorant. If so , the other's are not alone. And that's why i don't judge.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by cpdaman]

oops fake video haha

[edit on 27-7-2008 by TheRepublic]

reply to post by cpdaman


the OP might be listening to screamo music paintiing his nails black.
i would love the chance to talk to a truely evil person though just to try and see what they are thinking. like hitler or david rockefeller.

i think if you talked to them though they might have convinced themselves they were doing right.

i do not care however to talk to some goth who thinks evil is cool. if there are any real evil people on here u2u me hahah.

I don't have one once of pity for those losing their homes, why should I? Why should I make you and other taxpayers responsible for my stupidity?

How about empathy, how accepting the possibility that it wasn't there fault, more often than not its the insane interest they end up paying, well done, you knew the system well enough to be careful, most don't and if they had another way of doing things, they would, but they don't, so they end up getting screwed as they get hemmed in with legal jargon and verying rates and different incentives, and when the bills get too much, they fear losing thier house, the reason they are in this mess in the first place, so they get more loans, maybe a second mortgage, you are not free, you are a product of the system.

Again all of these terrible things you discuss are not caused nor instigated by humanity. These are byproducts of the STATE. Your U.S., your U.N., your Iran, your U.K. your CCCP, your Cuba...etc Yet you would like to transform some superbody of a STATE? I hope not.

If animals had the capacity conscious will to unite they would be far more merciless than the human animal, you see at least we have the capacity to know right from wrong, again the ability to respect you and your private property.

I'm against the NWO, why would you think I'm for it? thats darksider whos up for being a drone of the system. I agree with you, I no longer believe it's the Uk's fault or the US's fault, its a global problem, within many governments world wide, not to mention to business' involved.

EMM