Fortress Iran is Virtually Impregnable to a Successful Invasion

Originally posted by mr-lizard


I'd much rather be a 'pussified pacifist' than a slave to Israel, but i'm neither so you're totally wrong on both accounts.

Slave to Isreal? Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously after that?
So now defending the only democratic nation in the entire region is ebing a slave?
My god man how do you not fall down more?

I just abhor idiots

Self-loathign eh?

and uneccesary violence.

What like "pushing isreal into the sea"
Oh wait I know they're JOOZ so any violence agianst them is always necessary.

You know youve got a great name buddy, an cold-blooded animal with no higher brain functions describes you perfectly.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


I find your post racist, insulting and your spelling is atrocious and does nothing but further fuel my disregard to your small minded opinions.

I have absolutely nothing further to say to you as every time I post something, you start a flame war, where you reduce the thread to petty name calling, childish comebacks and innapropriate responses.

You're also attempting once again to derail this thread. Please keep it on topic.

Thank You Mr-Lizard, OLD, when you do nuke Iran what do you thinks is going to happen when the radioactive fallout falls on innocent countries etc. do you thinks thats OK. And please show me what Misile sytems the Iranians have to hit the US. As usual you have people saying the US is all powerful and then its quaking in its boots about a 3rd World nation getting nukes. Pakistan and India have them, I dont recall Bush and his cronies saying we should attack thsoe countries I wonder why.

The point is that what all you miss guided Americans cannot see is that your country has been used and abused for the Israelis to fight their wars. And thats because the administration is full of Jews, PNAC's founder was Jewish as are many of its supporters and backers. So your misguided thoughts about American fighting evil is actually American is backing an evil regime in the ME as it has done many times in the past, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, The Afganis. America is being bled dry by these wars and it will eventually bankrupt the country no one will need to attack it as your Goverment will destroy it for you.

It must be very difficult for the average American to make an well informed judgement on these matters as you have a state controlled media and totally biased news full of American propaganda. Your not being told the truth about whats really going on in the ME so all that you can recite it the diatribe from the Goverment and the corporate owned media.

The American armed forces have been turned into nothing more than a mercenary force to do the dirty work of the Israelis, corrupt officials and the corporate greed machine. I just wish the American people could see that because in the end when the turd hits the fan its all of you that will suffer and pay the price for it.

This might come as a shock to you, but not wanting to invade Iran is not the same thing as being a pacifist

I assure you I am no pacifist.
You are free to test that for yourself at your leisure

Iran is a country halfway around the planet that represents no realistic threat to the United States, and hasn't attacked the United States.

(BTW, if Iranian support for Shia insurgents constitutes an 'attack' on the US, why doesn't Saudi & Kuwaiti support for Sunni insurgents, who have actually killed far more US troops?)

America has 4 objectives in the ME, Security for Israel by removing the so called rogue states, assure its oil supplies at peanut prices, to prevent the Euro replacing the dollar on the oil market and most importantly providing permanent military bases as close to China as possible as the planners know China is the next emerging World power.

And it is those 4 reasons why it lies and decieves it sown people, probally was behind the 9/11 attacks and any future homeland attacks. Watch this space.

Originally posted by SystemiK

Fortress Iran is Virtually Impregnable to a Successful Invasion

www.marketoracle.co.uk

The Broad Outline:

Iran is a fortress. Surrounded on three sides by mountains and on the fourth by the ocean, with a wasteland at its center, Iran is extremely difficult to conquer. This was achieved once by the Mongols, who entered the country from the northeast. The Ottomans penetrated the Zagros Mountains and went northeast as far as the Caspian but made no attempt to move into the Persian heartland.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Your point is?

No official that I have heard has ever talked about invading Iran?

Bunker buster bombs are not delivered by armies.

Real simple to defeat Iran . . . merely eliminate all refined oil capacity and refined imports, and all ball bearing importation & manufacture. Their war machine would soon run out of any ability to mobilize, or rearm, and just become selective sitting targets. Their populace would revolt as food & energy shortages would become pronounced . . . ya can't eat bullets! And a threat to water desalinization plants would seal the deal.

As for "occupation," then simply air drop tons of small arms weapons to ALL opposing groups, then in-country civil wars will ensue as they internally murder millions of each other, but wherein the USA protects & keeps all the oil in perpetuity.

reply to post by FredT


Interesting article and very informative, thank you, but just a couple of points (just my opinions ok?): re Afghanistan, I think first we have to re-examine the objective of that war. "Winning" in that case was not about when the bad guys (that's THEM by the way not US) capitulate or whatever, "winning" was about starting the war in the first place!

It was about stopping Unocal and/or Bridas constructing the $1.2 billion dollar pipeline from Turkmenistan to the Pakistan coast to carry the "known" ocean of oil still underground in Turkmenistan and the other 'stans - I don't think many people bought the "Bin-Laden dunnit / hiding in a cave in Afghanistan with his lap-top line" anyway. Objective: keep the oil in the ground and at the same time erase it's existense from public consciousness - we're talking A LOT OF OIL here, so I understand. Think about that when you fill up your car next - I do every time!

But as a brief aside, I suppose we don't really care do we? As we all know global warming is caused by carbon emissions - like that from burnt oil and farting cows. And I KNOW it's true because they said so on television! Nothing to do with natural cycles with the Sun - of course - we can't tax the Sun anyway can we? Sorry, back to topic....

Regards Iran - well I suppose the powers that be will attack after the US election (?) - judging by the info you supplied looks like it will take the form of a punitive missile attack, by the US, but with Israel perhaps advancing an agenda of its own (territory expansion?) under the guise of "helping America".

If we, subjects of the Coalition Of The Compliant, get lots of propaganda (sorry, "information") about how wonderful life is in the military - that will be a sure sign that things are going to hot up and maybe a conventional invasion is on the cards after all.

Ta once again for your post!

God help us (and THEM) all,


Mal

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
Your point is?

No official that I have heard has ever talked about invading Iran?

Bunker buster bombs are not delivered by armies.

Try reading the thread before you post, what does it matter if any official said they were going to invade or not, it's an interesting article that has spawned an interesting debate.

As for you warmongers, you say your justification for war in Iran is that they are building a nuke. So what?

Do we not have thousands of the things? Do Russia not have thousands of the things? So what if Iran wants one, why should it be one rule for us, one rule for them?

Magic Mushroom...

You talk alot of crap...

I'll say this one thing be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it...

I'd enjoy it pal, I'd love a chance to do what i'd do to the traitors in my midst... I think I know what real brits would do to a guy like you... I think that's what your really scared of, you know what happens to traitors in a "real" war...

Let America be attacked... do I care if the world burns? If the Govt falls... that just means there is no law to check my behavior...

I couldn't post here... what I'd do to an enemy combatant, but I assure you, I can tell... your not a guy who could live in that kind of world and some of us could thrive on it... would enjoy it

Your alot of talk guy... but no one will even think of what your saying, they know what kind of fight they'd be into... they know we would burn the whole world before quitting

So maybe you should go cry over your fate, because I know in good time what real brits will do to sympathizers of the enemy as this fight intensifies...

use your days well pal, Britain ain't filled with sissies and I'd take one good blooded man of the isles against 20 cowards willing to submit their allies and friends out of fear and bend over for an enemy.

You should leave England bud before this whole thing gets hot... a guy like you won't last when your country nationalizes out of neccessity.

Magicmushroom is a traitor for releasing what is actually going on in the world? I'm a brit and I applaud him, he has managed to think for himself and ignore the media bull. Wish there were more people in this country with such a view on the world.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Magic Mushroom...

You talk alot of crap...

I'll say this one thing be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it...

I'd enjoy it pal, I'd love a chance to do what i'd do to the traitors in my midst... I think I know what real brits would do to a guy like you... I think that's what your really scared of, you know what happens to traitors in a "real" war...

Let America be attacked... do I care if the world burns? If the Govt falls... that just means there is no law to check my behavior...

I couldn't post here... what I'd do to an enemy combatant, but I assure you, I can tell... your not a guy who could live in that kind of world and some of us could thrive on it... would enjoy it

Your alot of talk guy... but no one will even think of what your saying, they know what kind of fight they'd be into... they know we would burn the whole world before quitting

So maybe you should go cry over your fate, because I know in good time what real brits will do to sympathizers of the enemy as this fight intensifies...

use your days well pal, Britain ain't filled with sissies and I'd take one good blooded man of the isles against 20 cowards willing to submit their allies and friends out of fear and bend over for an enemy.

You should leave England bud before this whole thing gets hot... a guy like you won't last when your country nationalizes out of neccessity.

Wow man you seem upset at Mushroom, but i notice instead of trying to debate him or come up with valid arguments you just tell him how much you would kick his a$$. It sucks knowing hes absolutely right doesn't it?

Originally posted by kindred
Just like the last time, you no doubt can't wait to install another brutal subservient regime that panders to evey Americans wet dream, one that will only be too eager to bring more strict fascist laws, suppression of freedom and civil rights. But that's the American way, a parasite that claims to bring liberty, but never leaves and overtime slowly, but surely sucks the life essence out of everything it comes into touch with.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by kindred]

You mean like South Korea, Germany and Japan?

You are an ass. Plain and simple. Learn some history.

reply to post by SystemiK


Well gorsh there goes our plans all discombobulated..

We where going to try and repeat the Mongol invasion and have Marines go over the barren mountains to the "Wasteland" on donkeys, elephants and horses ..

But then a wise general said "hey we got cruise missiles, the largest floating air force in the world and paratroopers..

DOH! .. All which avoid pesky mountains! .. And it just so happens being close to the sea is not exactly healthy when fighting a war between a country that house a few aircraft carriers.

Iran a "fortress" what a garbage news article..

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

Guerllial fighters rely on the society they come from to recruit. If that society is starving no-one fights. Electricity, heating oil, cooling systems etc. All require oil. I agree though, your "logic" is laughable.

You seem to have insurgents and resistance fighters confused with rockstars and playboys...

Cooling systems? Heating oil?
Who do you think these guys are? Spoiled brats from rich families used to all the creature comforts in life?

They're kids and impoverished men from working class backgrounds who probably grew up with out any of those things in a one room shack in some shanty town.

By simply even taking away more from them, cutting off their supply of food, oil or whatever your only going embolden their cause.
You don't seem to understand how these resistance movements arise, they fight for freedom and a better way of life, so if you keep oppressing them it only makes fight harder for something that's been pushed even further out of their grasp.

Look at Hamas, the PLO, the Palestinian resistance.

You think the Palestinians have cooling systems, heaters, TV's, enough food?
Do they give up and just drop their arms as soon they can't boil water?

No. Obviously, if you watch the news their still resisting Israeli occupation and fighting back with whatever means they can.

Pfft... your assumptions are so sheltered & immature, of course I don't expect anything else from a kid who probably never lifted his pinky for more than a few minutes at a time in life.

Even the AP recognises we have won in Iraq.

Take a lot at what your own military says before making that call genius:

General Peter Schoomaker : "Military -- the "m" in the dime -- will we not win this," he said. "This will be won at the informational level and at the economic level, with the support of the military for security, and diplomatically."

www.spacewar.com...

"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible,"

www.washingtonpost.com...

"Iraq is a lost cause," he said. "I don't think we can't achieve much. It is a difficult moral dilemma though. We owe it to the Iraqi people to stabilise their country and secure it for them. But at the same time it is unwinnable."

news.bbc.co.uk...

And the other "achievements" you listed, are just as full of BS.

Oh my! He can copy-paste reams of useless information!
Wow, your computer literacy skills are amazing.

If they're so wrong, PROVE IT. You expect anyone to believe someone who calls Muslims backward savages and uncultured dogs and wants to turn the entire Middle East into a glass crater?

Get over yourself, you've lost all credibility.

Hah.
Russian and Chiense weapons?
Theyd be better off stickinh with the rocks and sticks.

How did I know you'd say that? Hmmm maybe it's your racist, retrograde, xenophobic personality that tipped me off?
I dunno.

Right, that's why the US spent all that money and effort during the Cold War developing counterparts to Russian weaponry, because they were about as effective as sticks...

If you think Russian & Chinese weapons are junk you've got another thing coming.

Slave to Isreal? Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously after that?
So now defending the only democratic nation in the entire region is ebing a slave?

Right they're so democratic and peace loving:
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.cbc.ca...
edition.cnn.com...
www.smh.com.au...

Your "Holier than attitude" is getting really tiring.

It's not America's job to defend Israel. The US didn't create it, it didn't prop it on it's feet and supporting Israel actually does more harm than good for America.

If the Israeli's want aggravate their Arab/Persian neighbours, good for them, they can sort their own sort mess out too.

When America starts defending Israel it opens itself up to a world of hurt from Islamic Fundamentalists and terrorist groups who use it as an excuse to justify attacks on the US.

That's one of Osama's primary reasons for targeting America; that and the presence of American troops on Saudi soil and the Saudis cooperation with the US via the Oil Industry.

It's ultimately counter-productive and futile. Israel drains America dry by constantly demanding money and weapons and what does the US get out of it?
Hmmm? Think that one over.

reply to post by Rockpuck

But then a wise general said "hey we got cruise missiles, the largest floating air force in the world and paratroopers..

Yes but see your Fuhrer, I'm sorry ruling administration is anything but smart.

The US is going to go in via the ground sooner or later, they want those oil fields and they can't have them secure while some anti-Western towel head is sitting atop them. (Eg: Iraq 2003, Iran 1953, etc... ring any bells?)

So that means Regime Change. And that means the Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force, Spec Ops., Rangers, the whole nine yards.

Last time I checked, America doesn't have missiles and planes can exactly secure ground objectives like an Oil Well you know?

Sheesh....

To all the people that are gibbering along the lines of: "Invasion? Let's just sit back and fry the sand rats with our B-2's and Cruise missiles! etc..."

No it doesn't work that way.
Sooner or later the Republicans will see the need for a tangible, concentrated effort to get rid of Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollahs and that means of course a repeat of Iraq.
And that means a repeat of disaster.

Otherwise as far as the Republican administration is concerned it's a waste of time simply delaying their Nuclear programme by taking out a few facilities, because they'll be operational in a few years time again.

No these chickenhawks have a collective hard-on for all out war, and nothing's going to change that.



[edit on 28/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira

The US is going to go in via the ground sooner or later, they want those oil fields and they can't have them secure while some anti-Western towel head is sitting atop them.

You know that Iranians are Persian, not Arab right? Just blowing ignorance out your arse all over the internet ..

Depends on what the US's goals for Iran are. If it is to be used to prop the economy like Iraq, ground troops would be the best way to do this. If it's just to knock them back and let civil war ensue, air strikes are all that's needed. America does not buy Iranian Oil, however our enemies do.. so perhaps it would be good to control them.

Last time I checked, America doesn't have missiles and planes can exactly secure ground objectives like an Oil Well you know?

Typically oil wells are lit by the housing government once they realize they lost. Disrupted oil in Iran would cause prices to rise, however because we don't buy Iranian oil, shipments would not be disrupted.

Personally, I would prefer the government just assassinate the heads of government there, and let the power struggle between various factions commence.

then again, troops invasion would be pretty easy.. if you think 4k deaths is "a lot" your wrong, it's only a days worth of casualties in our past wars.

reply to post by Rockpuck

You know that Iranians are Persian, not Arab right?

*tumble weed rolls*

You do realise SARCASM is quite a popular form of humour still?

If it's just to knock them back and let civil war ensue, air strikes are all that's needed.

How do you go from airstrikes to civil war?

So we take out their Nuclear facilities and the Iranians are going to start going at each other's throats?

How the hell did you reach that conclusion?

You seem to have Iran confused with Iraq. The majority are Shiite, civil war isn't the worry with Iran.

Your not getting the point though, okay so you nail the underground, hardened enrichment planets, the centrifuges, the reactors, etc...

Then in 2 years time Russia signs another multi-million dollar deal to sell them 10,000 centrifuges and what do you do?

Another air strike? No, not likely...

The only way I see Bush & the Neo-Cons being satisfied with Iran is to get rid of Ahmadinejad all together and prop up a puppet.
Face it, that's the only way their truly going to stop having a hard-on for action against and Iran the whole "Clear & Present danger" angle.

Disrupted oil in Iran would cause prices to rise,

And can the US economy afford that right now?
I don't think so.

Personally, I would prefer the government just assassinate the heads of government there, and let the power struggle between various factions commence.

?
So your honestly advocating we slice the hamstrings of the rampaging bull here and watch it run around violently and finally collapse?

And I would prefer George Bush should happen to wonder off a high pier but we can't always get what we like sadly...

Nevertheless, taking out Ahmadinejad and then what? Another hardliner rises up even 10 times worse and then what?
The minor problem that could have been dealt with fairly easily has now turned into a major pain in the ass that's going to require even more attention.

You are really not rationally thinking these ideas through are you...

if you think 4k deaths is "a lot" your wrong, it's only a days worth of casualties in our past wars.

Of course I forgot who I'm talking to here.

A Republican: our lives nor their lives are important, what's important is the end is achieved by whatever means necessary.
4,000 servicemen or 40,000 who cares right?

Sigh..

If the USA or Israel was to get backed into a corner, I have no doubt that the powers that be would nuke Iran. That is the difference between a superpower, and a radical muslim state.

Yea, it wouldn't be pretty, but it would be over for the Iranian regime and their impregnable defense.

Originally posted by cleggy88
Magicmushroom is a traitor for releasing what is actually going on in the world? I'm a brit and I applaud him, he has managed to think for himself and ignore the media bull. Wish there were more people in this country with such a view on the world.

aww well too bad there aren't

and lol.. he has no clue whats going on in the world...what are you two 17 years old...

even the premise of this is mental...cut off our money and we won't have our weapons... I mean, it's just moronic, money isn't real it's paper...we get our oil from Canada which is 20 feet away and could never screw around lol...

and we have enough ourselves for 20 years... money doesn't even exist...resources do, the US doesn't have to honor money...Just reality and the reality is we could wage war no matter what

the whole thread is written from a child or teens perspective...

and one based in fear at that

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


This is also more about Israel than the US. But in spite of your post here are some more reliable numbers from the CIA Factbook:

USA
Manpower available for military service:
males age 16-49: 72,715,332
females age 16-49: 71,638,785 (2008 est.)

Manpower fit for military service:
males age 16-49: 59,413,358
females age 16-49: 59,187,183 (2008 est.)

Iran
Manpower available for military service:
males age 16-49: 20,212,275
females age 16-49: 19,638,751 (2008 est.)

Manpower fit for military service:
males age 16-49: 17,416,126
females age 16-49: 16,928,226 (2008 est.)

List of Countries by Size of Armed Forces

List of Countries by Number of Active Troops

Granted Iran has the largest total troops in the world, even more than China. But when it comes to technology USA is the largest in the world.

But again, I think this is deal with Israel more so than USA. Even though USA is ally to Iran. What concerns me is what happens when Israel declares war on Iran and USA gets involved, what will be the reaction of China and Russia.