Fortress Iran is Virtually Impregnable to a Successful Invasion

I seem to remember the same odds in Iraq. Actually it was worse according to the MSM pundits, 50 to 1 tanks, 200 to 1 howitzers and on and on and it didn't matter then and it won't matter if it happens in Iran.
I guess only time will tell for sure. At least we have past experience to go by in our arm chair war!!

Zindo

Originally posted by SystemiK

Fortress Iran is Virtually Impregnable to a Successful Invasion

www.marketoracle.co.uk

The Broad Outline:

Iran is a fortress. Surrounded on three sides by mountains and on the fourth by the ocean, with a wasteland at its center, Iran is extremely difficult to conquer. This was achieved once by the Mongols, who entered the country from the northeast. The Ottomans penetrated the Zagros Mountains and went northeast as far as the Caspian but made no attempt to move into the Persian heartland.

(visit the link for the full news article)

surrounded by mountains but no ocean but yes water sounds to me a good place for a preemptive nuclear strike. because why invade if you can destroy the fortress from long range without endangering US, Israeli , NATO troops.

Originally posted by centurion1211
That doesn't mean iran won't be attacked by bombs and missiles if they continue to act belligerant and thumb their noses at everyone else in the world.

Belligerent 1. warlike; given to waging war.

Perhaps the word you're looking for is "defensive"

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Yeah I'm sorry to say, but have a look at this:

Wikipedia's say on World Armed Forces

Iran may have 355 thousand professional troops over the US Army 346 thousand available troops, but we still have Marines, Navy personnel, Air Force Personnel, reserves, the whole nine-yards.

I'd be more worried about 7 million Iranian suicide troopers before I worry about their regular force, which will most likely surrender in droves.

Besides, Iranian army is conscripted isn't it? American armed forces are all volunteer, hate to think of the numbers we could dig up if we really needed it.

Iranian's best military technology also comes from the United States, they have several Cobra gunships, F-16 and F-14 fighters along with some Hueys. But they're all 1970's to early 1980's spec technology. They have Mirages and MiG's, yeah, but they're minuscule airforce would get absolutely massacered.

They're surrounded on one side by water? The US Appears to have 12 carriers, some how I think that little water barrier might be their undoing. (Don't forget about the amphibious landing forces)

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Iran is easy to beat, it's not, just like any other conventional war a lot of soldiers are going to die on both sides. I'm just not going to sit here and pretend as if Iran has a chance in hell as defeating the US conventionally.

I honest to god fear the possible insurgency that will arise in Iran.

I do not accept the wikipedia article as a fully dependable source, it is obviously an incomplete archive and is subject to change, I'm just using it as a template with basic figures. I accept it has a significant margin of error.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 25-7-2008 by ShatteredSkies]

Unless we use EMP. Which I will bet is coming next. That will wipe Iran out since they are pretty new to this "modern" warfare idea. Nukes and EMP will wipe them out minutes after they are dumb enough to launch some crappy rocket at Israel.

Originally posted by FredTAt least in Iraq we had some local support from the Shiites who also wanted to get rid of Saddam and his Bath cronies. In Iran we would not have that luck.

Wrong.

In Iran, the US will have the mujahideens, the peshmargas, most of the kurdish people, and a few other resistance groups that have taken refuge in northern Iraq. These guys know the Iranian mountains and valleys like the back of their hands.

Not to mention most of the young people in Iran that have demonstrated numerous times against the regime.

The United States military could destory Iran's military, government and infrastructure within days. We could, wihtout exagerration, reduce the entire nation to pre-industiral civilisation within 72 hours without using any form of non-conventional weapons.

Occupying Iran would be much, much more difficult, and may not even be possible without either
a) A reduction of violence in afghanistan and Iraq so massive as to free up 80-90% of all soldeirs serving in those theatres
b) a draft.

But boming Iran into the stone age, and using military units in Iraq, and Afghanistan, coupled with Naval forces to Isolate the smoking remains untill the iranians turn to cannabalism in order to feed themselves? That the US military could do easily, and without much cost.

double post
[edit on 26/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

[edit on 26/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by ShatteredSkies

Yeah I'm sorry to say, but have a look at this:

Wikipedia's say on World Armed Forces

Wow a Wikipedia link.
Find some real sources.
The ones I gave you come from Globalsecurity.org, a huge dedicated, international military resource, I'd trust their figures far more than Wikipedia's.

And I think that only helps prove my point, not yours, according to that table, Iran's army ranks 8th in the world by size.

I'd be more worried about 7 million Iranian suicide troopers before I worry about their regular force, which will most likely surrender in droves.

Wrong.

They're not suicide bombers, your talking about their militias which are irregular paramilitary forces made up of the Basji and Quds Brigades.

If the sh*t ever did hit the fan they wouldn't simply be blowing themselves up, they'd be a mobilised, ready to deploy insurgency; who are also well-armed and supplied.
Not to mention number in the millions.

Just consider that, in addition to how many insurgencies and other resistance movements would arise if the US did try to occupy Iran and that's a serious problem, they would also have a huge state-sponsored one ready to go at a moment's notice.
It would make Iraq's insurgency seem like a glorified Boy Scouts Brigade.

Besides, Iranian army is conscripted isn't it? American armed forces are all volunteer, hate to think of the numbers we could dig up if we really needed it.

Wrong again.

Iran maintained active armed forces with some 545,000 men in 2006; 220,000 of this total are 18-month conscripts that receive limited training and have marginal military
effectiveness. The remaining 350,000 are professional soldiers

www.pdfdownload.org...
The majority are volunteers as well.

Iranian's best military technology also comes from the United States,

Not anymore. Maybe in the 1980's yeah but they have a huge indigenous military industry now and have become far more self sufficient.

Most of their major military hardware is now of Iranian origin:

Khaybar KH2002- Iran's Standard Assault Rifle

Zulfiqar Main Battle Tank

Boragh APC

Tosan Light Tank

Soltam-1 Howitzer

Raad-1 Self-propelled Artillery

Raad-2 Self-propelled howitzer

Boragh "Thunder" Self-propelled Howitzer

Misagh-2 SAM

Toophan ATGM Missile

They even have their own indigenous UAV, the Mirsad-1 and are even producing their own indigenous fighter planes:
www.globalsecurity.org...

Not mention a huge Missile Forces program that's developing ballistic and intercontinental ballistic missiles: www.swissinfo.ch... i

I'm just not going to sit here and pretend as if Iran has a chance in hell as defeating the US conventionally.

Not defeating no.
Stalling? Starving out? War of attrition?
You bet.

While US forces are stretched to breaking point across two fronts already and have shown ineptness at combating guerrilla warfare and insurgent tactics, Iran has a far greater chance of seriously crippling a US ground invasion if it materialised.

You think Iran doesn't watch the news? I'm sure they've learnt a valuable lesson for the past 8 years watching US forces trying to take on irregular armies and failing miserably.
That's something they would no doubt use against you right away.

The point I was trying to make with my previous post is, America simply couldn't afford it anyway.

Iraq cost over 1 trillion, and has yet to be resolved. Iran will make that seem peanuts compared to what is required for a ground force to pacify the whole region.

Your economy currently is in recession, inflation to the roof, RECORD national debt, energy prices almost unbearable, etc...

Military action on Iran would break the back of the economy, you wouldn't be able to support yourselves logistically. It would simply cost too darn much.
You wouldn't be able to keep up the campaign for 8 years, that's for sure and it would take a hell of a lot longer I think to pacify Iran.

Bottom line: War with Iran is the last thing America needs now.

reply to post by Impreza

Not to mention most of the young people in Iran that have demonstrated numerous times against the regime.

Yeah, that's what they said about Iraq.

The civilians were supposed to jump for joy when the Marines steam rolled through Baghdad and toppled a few statues here and there. It didn't really materialise as you can see.

You think handing liberty to the young people of Iran on a bayonet is the right way to go about it?
They wouldn't sit still while their nation was crumbling all around them.

Invading Iran right now would destroy any chances for a moderate revolution to take place and get rid of the Mullahs and Ayatollahs in power. The people are already suffering in Iran.
Poverty is a major issue, not enough food, electricity, harsh laws and customs, etc..

You would rally the Iranians against a totally unpopular regime and embolden Ahmadinejad's cause. It would destroy all hope of a moderate Iran rising up organically and just turn back the clock another 50 years or so, creating another breeding ground for terrorism

American's are so [snip] Need I remind you [snip], who seem to think you're so invincible. Only a handful of terrorists brought your entire country to it's knees on 911. You attack Iran and you're going to have 65 million people on your sorry asses. The Iranians, being Persian are a very proud people. You attack them and your going to get exactly what you deserve...............






Mod Edit: Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 2) Behaviour. Also the 02/19/2006 added edit here - "Broad Brush Bashing". Thank you - Jak

[edit on 26/7/08 by JAK]

I don't think America will be alone on this one either. The UK will get in on it. Others as well (My opinon only here). Lets hope cooler heads prevail on this one.

The US would not invade. Systematic destruction of the Iranian Military Industrial Complex is probably what would happen.

The two aircraft carriers in the persian gulf carry enough firepower on their own to do this.

Iran may have advanced military tech, but, their ability to use it will be the biggest determining factor in how well they can defend themselves. A large military does not necessarily make it an effective fighting force.

Sadly I think the cowardly Yanks wouldn't engage Iran on foot, they would probably use nuclear weapons AFTER letting their Israeli masters get the first strike in.

The Yanks would then obey their Israeli overlords by protecting their interests. In other words, the cowardly Yanks would allow Israel to get the first strike in and then when Iran defends itself, the cowards unleash the bombs.

There is absolutely no way that the Yanks would even attempt to take Iran on foot, they just aren't good enough. Iran would destroy them and I think everyone knows that.

Sad really, seeing America bullied into this position, but that's what happens i suppose when a stupid nation gives its obedience to a rogue state, this kind of crap begins.

Although if Iran was attacked, i'm pretty sure the US and Israel will eventually crumble. That would be one move too far....

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
Unless we use EMP. Which I will bet is coming next. That will wipe Iran out since they are pretty new to this "modern" warfare idea. Nukes and EMP will wipe them out minutes after they are dumb enough to launch some crappy rocket at Israel.

God forbid it should get to Nukes/EMP's. Russia and China have those too, and the last thing any of us should want is to see those two skunks getting into this p*ssing contest. It may be unavoidable though. In fact it may be planned.

Originally posted by kindred
American's are so full of s*** and arrogance. Need I remind you morons, who seem to think you're so invincible. Only a handful of terrorists brought your entire country to it's knees on 911. You attack Iran and you're going to have 65 million people on your sorry asses. The Iranians, being Persian are a very proud people. You attack them and your going to get exactly what you deserve...............

Quite the tirade coming from someone in the UK. Haven't you folks been along for the ride with all this war on terror stuff? Who's the greater moron; the moron, or he who follows the moron? Exactly what is the difference between 911 and 7/7? Coming from the seat of the original military world empire, and still the seat of the current economic world empire, talk of arrogance seems hypocritical at best. I think you can count your country in on whatever comeuppance is deserved.

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Surely not even the neocon madmen conceive of a folly as grand as the invasion of Iran. Unfortunately, I think that bombing Iran alone will be enough to kick off a global conflict. And if WMP’s are used, it’s Katy bar the door. I just can’t see Russia and China standing by forever while we checkmate them in the worlds oil barrel.

News Flash: Iran has already been successfully invaded!! A new regime lays in wait for further instructions.

It is good to hear that Iran is so well defended. So, after the government is completely subverted next month and taken control of by friendly forces already within the country we won't have to spend much resources on rebuilding the defense apparatus and the new regime will be able to defend itself from any criminal insurgency that might develop following the implosion of the clerical regime.

The above analysis was provided to me by an expert at something he calls Quantum Warfare. He was telling me how all things, including human governments and societies, have their source at the "quantum" level and that when one has access to the basic "particles" it is possible to build the world anyway one sees acceptable; without even having to fire a single shot.

He went on further to explain that he is about to make the current Iranian regime "vanish", In much the same fashion that amadinejad had planned for Israel I suppose, making the notion of a conventional war with Iran unneccessary.

It seems that the leaders of Iran have pissed off someone extremely powerful and their time remaining in power is best measured in weeks.



[edit on 26-7-2008 by bruxfain]

Just like the last time, you no doubt can't wait to install another brutal subservient regime that panders to evey Americans wet dream, one that will only be too eager to bring more strict fascist laws, suppression of freedom and civil rights. But that's the American way, a parasite that claims to bring liberty, but never leaves and overtime slowly, but surely sucks the life essence out of everything it comes into touch with.

wdkirk I'm sorry but I'm one Brit you can exclude, as I'll be supporting the Iranians and I'll be hoping they teach the warmongers a lesson they'll never forget.








[edit on 26-7-2008 by kindred]

[edit on 26-7-2008 by kindred]

reply to post by SLAYER69


friend if you had cared to read sun tzu you would have rememberd the memorable part about how when an adversary is building its arms under a flag of peace it is they you should worry about, now i dont claim to be an expert but hasnt the USA been stockpiling one of the biggest supplies of weapons and armaments in the world through and even worse since the end of the cold war?? and doesnt iran publicly dismiss the UN from their facilities, now all of this is pretty obviously one big game of political maneouvering which is not going to end well for the everyday person more than anything else, personally i wish that it was only those in power that would pay themselves the price of greed, one day maybe but trajically u or i would pay a higher price sooner than that, and when all is said and done u would pay it for their greed and lust for more power.

perfectly described in the movie sin city- power doesnt come from a gun or a badge, it comes from lying big and getting the whole dam world in on it. when you get people to deny what they know i their hearts to be true, thats power.

personally i disagree though theres a lot of these nut-jobs in power that think thats precisely what power is, though the truth will always win out. peace and love all

reply to post by ShatteredSkies


"Besides, Iranian army is conscripted isn't it? American armed forces are all volunteer, hate to think of the numbers we could dig up if we really needed it. "



Ummm out of me and everyone i know no one is exactly "dying" to wind up being turned into IED confetti in some back alley of Tehran so the big corperations can be in control of Irans oil reserves.

If china invades the carolina coast you can bet your a-- ill be shooting, but im not losing my life for some rich corporate a--holes. i dont think any americans would, support for this war is in the sewer.

and if they try and start a draft there will be riots. i assure you.

Originally posted by kindred
American's are so full of s*** and arrogance. Need I remind you morons, who seem to think you're so invincible.

Good Lord, what's wrong with you? Are you deranged or something?
Plus, you are confusing arrogance with confidence. Don't worry, this is common with people who have self esteem issues.

If Americans are morons, then what does that make the UK since you follow us like a little puppy. I don't know what it makes you, but it's worse.

Only a handful of terrorists brought your entire country to it's knees on 911.

Umm....no, they only destroyed a few buildings.
You are such a drama queen.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Sadly I think the cowardly Yanks wouldn't engage Iran on foot, they would probably use nuclear weapons AFTER letting their Israeli masters get the first strike in.

The Yanks would then obey their Israeli overlords by protecting their interests. In other words, the cowardly Yanks would allow Israel to get the first strike in and then when Iran defends itself, the cowards unleash the bombs.

There is absolutely no way that the Yanks would even attempt to take Iran on foot, they just aren't good enough. Iran would destroy them and I think everyone knows that.

Sad really, seeing America bullied into this position, but that's what happens i suppose when a stupid nation gives its obedience to a rogue state, this kind of crap begins.

Although if Iran was attacked, i'm pretty sure the US and Israel will eventually crumble. That would be one move too far....

And since the UK follow the U.S. like a little lost puppy, what does that make the UK? I don't know but it's worse than your description of the U.S.

So ditto to everything you just said but apply it to the UK. I'm sorry you feel so bad about your own country. Oh well.

Let's try and keep the comments above tit-for-tat sniping please.

Thank you,

Jak