The real conspiracy of 9/11

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by ULTIMA1

 

conjectures are not evidence.

Theories are not concrete fact.

Excellent post! I'm glad to see there are people that see things how they really are. Star for you!

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
the "official story" remains official unless you can prove it otherwise.

But there is no real evidence to support the official story. How can people beleive the official story with no facts and evidence to back it up?

No evidence?

lets see here.

Osama Bin Laden claims responsibility

I remember watching the second plane hit the towers LIVE - mind you. So im confident that it happened


I remember watching them collapse


now i want you to pay special close attention to something in the above video.

The building's collapsible point of origin is where the plane struck it. Not in the basement.

Watch above the plane strike point - and you see collapse

only until the above section reaches the below section, does the building continue to crumble.


Think of it like this.

If i set on top of you - you can support my weight. As long as i set there, you're fine, no chance of crushed ribs, suffocation, etc.

If i get up on top of a bunk bed, and i jump from the bunk bed, and land on top of you - in the same location - you're going to cave.

A building works the same way. People claim they see evidence of demolitions.

No kidding?

What does "demolition" type explosives do to a building? It doesnt BLOW UP the building its self. It blows up the support structure OF the building, and the building destroys its self on the way down.

Simple.

So.

The explosives had to be placed at the point of impact in order for this demolition theory to be even a tenth of a % accurate. (refer to the above example of watching the building cave in)

If the explosives are placed AT THE POINT OF IMPACT, do you really think i'm going to believe, for one second, that the explosives themselves are going to survive the enormous explosion of the airplane?

Do you really expect me to believe that the residents of the building never noticed anything?

you can't expect me to believe that demolitions experts placed explosives in that building without someone noticing. And the theory that it was done in the elevator shaft:

A buildings support doesnt come from the elevator shaft. In fact, if you think about it, a shaft is a lack of support, and it has to be made up in other places. less inconspicuous places. Noticeable places.

If the building was destroyed with explosives, someone would have noticed the prep work.

If the building was a "demolition" project, it'd take a team of explosive experts. The more people you include in a cover up - the more times your cover is going to be blown.

The Manhattan project (that you offer as a support for your theory) is nothing more than a support for mine.

We know they kept it secret, because they told us.
The cover was blown.

Pretty simple really.

oh wait......i guess now you're going to tell me the occupants of the building were in on the conspiracy too, now? :shk:

I can post lots of facts and evidence that questions the official story.

That's ... three times? in this thread that you've said that - and given nothing.

A fact, and "evidence" that "questions" something is not "fact and evidence" its a conjecture and a theory.

To "question" something is not the same as disproving it.

To give you an example of what i mean, i can start a thread that says


The real color of our Sun is Green.

i could give you a picture like This

and link to articles like This

in order to support my theory.

I could rest on the fact that my theory cannot be disproved, despite what all of conventional science and wisdom suggest.

I could make the argument that we are all, in an unknown way, color blind, and that im the only one who's figured out the sun is green.


Posting theories as to what happened at 9/11 don't make them true.

But theories like the ones you support, do give extra help to MY theory that is:

The REAL Conspiracy of 9/11 is the terrorists playing on the imaginations of the American citizens.

Do you really believe that there aren't people out there who are capable, and willing, to fly a jumbo jet into a building to achieve their own little form of immortality?

they'll run into a crowded mosque in Israel and blow themselves to kingdom come with strict anonymity, what makes you so sure they wouldn't pull off the attacks of 9/11 for the "celebrity" status or "bragging" rights?

These people don't believe things like you and i do.
They think they're hero's for killing 'infidels' much like the people during 'medieval' times believed they were God's hero's for killing witches.

Do you realize, that back in the day, there were conspiracy theorists just like today?

People who claimed other people were witches, despite what conventional science and wisdom at the time suggested.

Do you know how these "conspiracy" theorists proved their case for witches?

The put them in a cage and submerged them into water.
If the witch lived, she was labeled a witch and burned.

If the person died, they were given a proper burial with a cleared family name. But still - dead none the less.


The type of "evidence" that you offer me as "proof" of an inside 9/11 job is no more scientific today, than these "witch hunters" from a few hundred years ago.


Again

You have offered zero proof to prove a 9/11 inside job.

Nothing
Zero
Zilch
Nada.

It makes for interesting conversation - but interesting conversation is all it's made to this date.


The real conspiracy is that the terrorists are still winning. But there are American people out there who invent these cockamamie stories in order to muster support for the radical terrorists cause. Because the attack HAD to come within, because only America hates Americans. :shk: Really sad when people ACTUALLY believe themselves with this line of thinking...imo.

What better way to defeat your enemy than to get them to destroy each other while you set by and watch?

[edit on 7/28/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Everybody is so numb in this country. Only the people who experience the great loss of loved ones in a terrible way, are the ones who never forget, the ones who really care and truly deeply move and make things go around. The care with a passion. 9/11 is unfortunate and the loved ones are right to question it. I wonder if any close family members disagree with 9/11 conspiracy theories only because they don't want to suffer any longer or refuse to be thought of as nuts.

reply to post by Pocky


or it could be that the conspiracy theories simply make no sense

atleast to me - that is. (and evidently, millions of others too)

Originally posted by solo1

With 911 there is no bullet proof evidence of what exactly happened
but there is a mountain of proof of what did not happen.
The official story that changed quite a few times, makes no sense ,seems to have been formulated by uneducated gangsters ,not stand tall Americans.

those that are in denial cannot even see this as factual

You got that right. Btw, nice avatar

The 9/11 Commission Report make perfect sense. All you have do is just ignore the fact that terrorists (some on watch lists) were able to enter our country, live openly using their real names, take flight lessons, all despite be reported by FBI personnel on multiple occasions. And ignore the fact that many agencies around the world alerted our government on many occasions. And ignore the fact that 4 or 5 terrorists can over take passenger jets with no resistance. And ignore the fact they seem to know exactly how to fool the NORAD using only a box cutter and a transponder switch. And ignore the fact that they were able to fly hijacked planes around the US for over and hour after they were known to be hijacked. And ignore the fact they were able to fly directly to their targets despite little flying experience. And ignore the fact that they not only flew direct to their target but were able to hit them, the Pentagon strike was incredible. And ignore the fact that Flight 77 was so not worried about getting shot down they decided to make a tremendous loop to line up their hit, even though a direct hit without the loop would have seemingly caused more damage. And ignore the fact that Israeli's were arrested on the morning of 9/11, and were described by officers as seemingly having knowledge of the events. And ignore that an ISI general wired $100k to Mohammed Atta and was having breakfast with top officials the morning of 9/11. And ignore The Lavon Affair .And that is just 9/11.

Now to believe the 9/11 Commission Report all you need to do is ignore the fact that the administration was against an investigation. And ignore the fact they deliberately underfunded the investigation. And ignore the fact they made sure to set a time table. And ignore the fact that Kissinger was appointed to head. And ignore the fact many of the members had many conflicts of interest. And ignore the fact that the members complained about the lack of cooperation by agencies. And ignore the fact one member quit because of the frustration of this. And ignore the fact that Bush refused to testify under oath. And ignore the fact that Bush wouldn't testify without Cheney being present. And ignore the fact that no one was allowed to take notes at their discussion. And ignore Norman Mineta's testimony. And ignore Sibel Edmonds testimony. And ignore the contradictions in time lines. And ignore the omission of Able Danger. And ignore the omission of WTC7. And ignore the families outrage that the Commission refused to answer their questions. And ignore the fact the the Commission job wasn't to place blame. And ignore the fact that they felt to financier was of little significance.

See that's all you have to do. Just ignore all these things and argue with everyone about holograms and thermite. Then it will all make sense.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
No evidence?

lets see here.

Yes lets see here. Some actual facts, just a few to get the discussion going.

1. The fact thet no steel buidling in history in the US has ever collasped from fire and or strutural damage no matter how severe.

2. Only the final NIST reports states it was a combination of plane impact and fire (even though the original NIST computer model states NEITHER plane impact or fire casued the collapse). Most reports state the buidlings withstood the planes impacts.

3. A large quanity of the jet fuel burned off in the intial explosion, what was left burned off quickly leaving only a normal office fire which was not hot enough or burn long enough to cause all the molten stell found in the basements and debris pile.

4. There are no sourced photos that have been released that actually shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon.

5. There are no sourced vidoes that have been released that actually shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon.

6. There are no official reports released that match any parts found to any of the 9/11 planes. In fact the FAA refuses to release information on the serial numbers.

7. More and more first responders are coming out and speaking out against the official story.

8. DO not forget all the following large websites.

A website full of pilots who question the official story

A website full of military and security speciallist who question the official story.

A website full of engineers who question the official story.

[edit on 29-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by RomanMaroni
All you have do is just ignore the fact that terrorists (some on watch lists) were able to enter our country, live openly using their real names, take flight lessons, all despite be reported by FBI personnel on multiple occasions.

How does one know the intentions of an individual before they commit a crime? What was the probable cause prior to 9/11? What were Hanjour, Atta, Alshehhi, and Jarrad's previous crimes?

And ignore the fact that many agencies around the world alerted our government on many occasions.

But exactly when and where? They didn't have that information-- I can say someone in New Jersey will win the lottery soon (and I will likely be right) but exactly who wins and what store the ticket was sold no one can say... one would be inclined to pick a guy who buys 5000 tickets every time..but there is no guarantee he will ever win.

And ignore the fact that 4 or 5 terrorists can over take passenger jets with no resistance.

Erm, yeah..everyone is sitting all peaceful then the next thing you know the kind man a few rows up has his throat slashed and he is grasping for life, torn vocal cords gurgling and his split juggler is spewing blood from rows 4-8, while several others begin screaming of a bomb, and even more rush the cockpit...Or the pretty flight attendant that just showed you where the emergency exits were has been smashed in the face then had her throat slashed near the cockpit door ..you look at her eyes fade as several other men run by you screaming in some forgien language and begin spraying mace and screaming for you to move to the rear of the plane or die... I bet you would be all super hero and kick all their asses...too bad you weren't there to help.

And ignore the fact they seem to know exactly how to fool the NORAD using only a box cutter and a transponder switch.

NORAD monitors threats comming from OUTSIDE US borders. Do you realize how much domestic air traffic there is? Do you think NORAD is in charge of monitoring the domestic air traffic? How many times in US history have there been multiple hijackings at the same time? NONE.

And ignore the fact that they were able to fly hijacked planes around the US for over and hour after they were known to be hijacked.

False. It wasn't until UA175 crashed into the South Tower that the gravity of the DEVELOPING situation took hold. The time the first two planes were SUSPECTED hijacked was much less than 1 hour. Then you had planes being redirected to land all over the country. Looking for a needle in a haystack.( a plane that was non responsive and off course) Sure, YOU could have figured it all out had you been in that control tower-- You would have fixed all of these problems and done it in less than an hour. To you it was just another day at the office...right?

And ignore the fact they were able to fly directly to their targets despite little flying experience.

Hanjour had his commercial pilots licence, Atta and Alshehhi has multi engine licences, Jarrad had a single engine flight licence. ALL had commercial jet simulator time, and training materials specific to the Boeing 767/757.

And ignore the fact that they not only flew direct to their target but were able to hit them, the Pentagon strike was incredible.

What? Are you saying terrorists are bad navigators? Thus inside job? What if they understood navigation and could easily spot the landmarks from the cockpit. You act like this is some unbelievable feat when 100's of people fly over and land around these areas everyday.

Ect..Ect... You think people ignore these things...I think you grossly underestimate people. But it makes you feel better so...what tha heck, right? Who cares if it is at all factual or really being ignored..right?

reply to post by Taxi-Driver


First of all taxi-driver, I don't recall claiming I would have prevented 9/11. What I am claiming is that every agency in charge of anything regarding 9/11, failed. I notice you chose not to respond to anything regarding the 9/11 Commission, so I believe we may be in agreement about a cover up.

How does one know the intentions of an individual before they commit a crime? What was the probable cause prior to 9/11? What were Hanjour, Atta, Alshehhi, and Jarrad's previous crimes?

I do believe that is the job of the FBI. That is what they do. They did detain Moussaoui and what were his crimes or what led them to him? Why would any FBI agents feel the need to warn anyone? After all, according to this logic, there was nothing to be done. I guess they had to wait until a crime was committed, then act. That logic is false however.

But exactly when and where? They didn't have that information-- I can say someone in New Jersey will win the lottery soon (and I will likely be right) but exactly who wins and what store the ticket was sold no one can say... one would be inclined to pick a guy who buys 5000 tickets every time..but there is no guarantee he will ever win.

I'm not really sure this is a good comparison. Intelligence agencies warned our government Middle Eastern men with terrorist affiliations were planning, what was the word ... oh yeah "spectacular" attacks. Remember it isn't your job to predict who wins the lottery, but it is our multi billion dollar intelligence agencies to prevent terrorist attacks. And also remember, Able Danger had identified some of these guys. To what extent, we will never know due to the fact nearly all the data was destroyed. I wonder why they destroyed it?

Erm, yeah..everyone is sitting all peaceful ... I bet you would be all super hero and kick all their asses...too bad you weren't there to help.

I think you missed the point here. I understand the passengers were most likely told there was a bomb and they would return to the airport with demands. I'm not talking about the passengers. I'm referring to the fact that it seems as though little resistance was given by the pilots and not one of them manage to get any kind of distress signal out. You seem to be implying, I claim to be a hero which I never did. You must have misinterpreted so I'll look past your mistake there.

NORAD monitors threats comming from OUTSIDE US borders. Do you realize how much domestic air traffic there is? Do you think NORAD is in charge of monitoring the domestic air traffic? How many times in US history have there been multiple hijackings at the same time? NONE.

Weird how the military could do all those exercises involving hijacked planes yet there was no way to track them. Come on, you don't really believe that do you? And "multiple hijackings at the same time" is redundant.

I will respond to your last three quotes here. Somewhere between 8:13-8:21 Flight 11 turned off the transponder. At 8:15 Flight 11 can't be contacted. Betty Ong makes her call at 8:21 saying they are hijacked. At 8:24 is when the "We have some planes" comment comes across. Flight 11 crashes at 8:46, Flight 175 9:03, Flight 77 9:37, Flight 93 10:06. Flight 93 crashed 1 hour and 47 min after it was known Flight 11 was hijacked. So your less than an hour is very inaccurate.

As for the finding the targets. I want you to really think about this. These planes were taken over at 35,000 ft. The planes were then turned precisely to head directly to the targets. At 35,000 ft, how did they know with such precision? They were pretty far away from the destination, yet went straight to them. Think about it like this. Let's say you were aboard Flight 77 and the pilot all the sudden told you to take control, turn this thing around and go hit the Pentagon with no guidance.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1



1. The fact thet no steel buidling in history in the US has ever collasped from fire and or strutural damage no matter how severe.

You also leave out the fact that this is the first building hit by a jumbo jet but nice try.

avoidance of factual evidence to support your claim is not a good way to convey your theory.

2. Only the final NIST reports states it was a combination of plane impact and fire (even though the original NIST computer model states NEITHER plane impact or fire casued the collapse). Most reports state the buidlings withstood the planes impacts.

Most reports? First off - i havent heard of the NIST - so its proper and respectful (here on ATS anyways) to provide a link to what you're talking about. And i go back to my "green sun" argument. I can show you many reports that would support the idea that you're color blind and actualy see the sun as yellow.

3. A large quanity of the jet fuel burned off in the intial explosion, what was left burned off quickly leaving only a normal office fire which was not hot enough or burn long enough to cause all the molten stell found in the basements and debris pile.

Again. How many attacks like this have ever occured? Zero? Thats right. So what do we have to compare it to? Computer data? Don't forget, computers are programmed BY human beings. Human beings are fallable. And 9/11 conspiracies that say Bush is responsible are definitive proof of that. Every conspiracy that is created .. the terrorists win.

4. There are no sourced photos that have been released that actually shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon.

3 things.

1.) "have been released" plays a key role here

2.) Who would've thought to take a photo? Who would've had time? Security camera's? Here's something you must've not thought about. Security Camera's don't point "up"

3.) There are no photographs that have been released of alien aircraft either (that can be proven that is) do you still believe? I only bring this up because you're a member of ATS. Surely something of the paranormal or ET'esque nature brought you here.

5. There are no sourced vidoes that have been released that actually shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon.

refer to the above "2 things" security camera's dont point up. They're on the look outs for human beings, not airplanes that carry them.

6. There are no official reports released that match any parts found to any of the 9/11 planes. In fact the FAA refuses to release information on the serial numbers.

Dont you think if this were true it'd be a little more "wide open" of a government cover-up?

7. More and more first responders are coming out and speaking out against the official story.

Name ONE credible respondent.

8. DO not forget all the following large websites.

A. A website full of pilots who question the official story

B. website full of military and security speciallist who question the official story.

C. website full of engineers who question the official story.

I lettered them for ease of reference.

A.) How does being a pilot make them qualified to testify about a plane crash? I can promise you none of them have ever been in one. Especially one of this magnitude.

B.) Question the official story. Military and security specialists? Want to know the joke about "specialist"? Environment specialists predicted, not too long ago, that soon the North pole would have ZERO ice in it. Specialists indeed. A title doesnt make for credibility as much as work history and background can.

C.) Refer to above.



Conclusion to this: There are also websites full of people who claim the opposite. Same titles, same job descriptions, same experiences. Whats the difference?

They watched the happenings of 9/11 with the same set of eyes i did.
Unbiased.

This countries hatred for Bush is unprecedented. Now - i blame him for that - however, these types of conspiracies, especially when they hold no FACTS and just CONJECTURES, only harm this country, and strengthen our enemies.

Its radical Islamic anti-American propaganda...and you're falling for it. hook. line. and sinker.



I further conclude that you've offered nothing to support your claim except more conjectures.

I suppose that the CIA just "accidently" misinterpreted OBL's claim that he is responsible for the attacks?

I suppose you're gona stick by your story that it was demolitions that brought down the buildings, despite what we see in the videos.

I suppose you're gona claim that all of the following people and organizations were in on the attacks, but nobody has peeped a single world in 7 years.

• The CIA (hard to get a rough # of people here, but we'll count it as one entity. They were warned, after all. If any blame lies anywhere, lets put it with this group of jokers. But being responsible in negligence, is not the same as being guilty of committing the crimes.
  
• The FAA. I'm sure they were savvy to comply, killing some pilots, and destroying their own credibility, ruining the airline industry permanently. Things haven't been so good for them since 9/11 ya know. Any moron with a brain-stem would've predicted that ahead of time.
  
• The FBI: They conducted the official investigation. You mean to tell me that all of those agents were in on it?
  
• The families of the flight that didnt make it. If this flight was shot down, surely those passengers would not have had time to call their relatives and tell them they're going to over thrown the terrorists of the plane. Or, is part of your attack to discredit the credibility of the phone conversations as well?
  
• Common sense. Common sense tells you that if a massive object strikes another massive object, there is going to be catastrophic aftermaths. A building that tall, struck by an object that lethal, is bound to produce results typical of what we all bore witness to during 9/11.

So the heat that made steel melt was not enough to burn or even slightly damage the passport, that conveniently was found???

Several of the supposed hijackers are still alive - how did they escape???

You talk about proof - well you must surely have some answers for the above questions.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


another way of putting the "inside job" conspiracy into perspective is this:


Remember the mass emails that circulated in the aftermath of 9/11?

The one that said microsoft knew, well ahead of time, about the attacks, because one of the crashed planes had the call tag of q33ny

and if you typed Q33NY (all caps) into wingdings in microsoft word , you get an airplane crashing into two buildings with a skull and crossbones and the star of david.

Except that Q33NY has nothing to do with 9/11 in no way. It was not the call tag of an airplane. It was nothing. Still is.

But there are still millions of people who believe it, because this is their proof. Regardless that their proof rests on nothing.


Just like the inside job conspiracy. Rests on nothing but a bunch of internet detectives who base their assumptions off of 7 year old pictures, instead of actual evidence from the scene.

Conjectures. NOT proof.


The official story - however, has loads of factual evidence to back it up.

If you choose to ignore it- thats fine by me, you are free to believe whatever you will.

I never said otherwise.

And the wheels on the buss go round and round..

Ill just blurt it out... 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!

THE OFFICIAL STORY IS COMPLETE BULL PUCKY!!

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
[You also leave out the fact that this is the first building hit by a jumbo jet but nice try.

Gee thanks for proving you live in a fantasy world and know nothing, there have been buidlings hit by planes.

1. According to most of the reports the buildings withtood the planes impacts.

2. I have shown other steel buildings that have had longer fires and worse structural damage and did not collapse.

avoidance of factual evidence to support your claim is not a good way to convey your theory.

What factual evidence? I have been wating for some to be posted.

Most reports? First off - i havent heard of the NIST - so its proper and respectful (here on ATS anyways) to provide a link to what you're talking about.

Original NIST computer model shows that neither the plane impacts or fires casued the collapse.

wtc.nist.gov...

. The tower maintained its stability with the removal of columns in the
exterior walls and core columns representative of aircraft impact and
also after losing columns in the south wall due to fire effects with some
reserve capacity left, indicating that additional weakening or loss of
other structural members is needed to collapse the tower.

Another report that states the buildings withstood the plaine impacts.

www.tms.org...

The early news reports noted how well the towers withstood the initial impact of the aircraft; however, when one recognizes that the buildings had more than 1,000 times the mass of the aircraft and had been designed to resist steady wind loads of 30 times the weight of the aircraft, this ability to withstand the initial impact is hardly surprising. Furthermore, since there was no significant wind on September 11, the outer perimeter columns were only stressed before the impact to around 1/3 of their 200 MPa design allowable.

The only individual metal component of the aircraft that is comparable in strength to the box perimeter columns of the WTC is the keel beam at the bottom of the aircraft fuselage. While the aircraft impact undoubtedly destroyed several columns in the WTC perimeter wall, the number of columns lost on the initial impact was not large and the loads were shifted to remaining columns in this highly redundant structure.

Again. How many attacks like this have ever occured?

Again what evidence do you have the it happened the way the official story states?

I have many reports from professional agencies that support my post. What do you have to support the official story?

Here's something you must've not thought about. Security Camera's don't point "up"

Heres is something you did not think about, the plane at the Pentagon was not up in the air it flew in at low level.

There were also cameras all along the way on hotels, gas station, Navy annex, a highway cam and even on the Pentagon beside the crash site.

i114.photobucket.com...

i114.photobucket.com...

i114.photobucket.com...

i114.photobucket.com...

i114.photobucket.com...

I lettered them for ease of reference.

A.) How does being a pilot make them qualified to testify about a plane crash?

A pilot knows if a amatuer pilot would be able to make the maueuvers the hijackers made., SPecailly when a t least 1 hijacker had onl about 100 hours of flight time.

They watched the happenings of 9/11 with the same set of eyes i did.
Unbiased.

But your not unbiased, you only believe what you have been told and will not accept facts and evidence posted. How can you believe the official story with no evindence to support it?


[edit on 30-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

1. According to most of the reports the buildings withtood the planes impacts.

2. I have shown other steel buildings that have had longer fires and worse structural damage and did not collapse.

1.) According to my own two eyes, and youtube, the buildings came tumbling down. Did you expect them to cave in immediately after the planes struck?

2.) You've never seen a building hit like this before, that i can promise ya.



Nice try though

No no. really.


Still waiting on that evidence

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
1.) According to my own two eyes, and youtube, the buildings came tumbling down. Did you expect them to cave in immediately after the planes struck?

Sorry but your eyes and youtube are not actual evidnece.

So where is your evindece, your reports that state the plane impacts brought them down? I have shown reports and can show more reports that the buildings withstood the planes impacts.

And yes the buildings would have caved in immediatlely if the planes would have been the casue of the collapse.

You've never seen a building hit like this before, that i can promise ya.

But there have been planes hit buildings.

Also i have shown buildings that had longer lasting fires and more structural damage and did not collapse.

You do know that structural damage is structural damage if it caused by a plane or fire ?


[edit on 30-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Nice post OP, but the real conspiracy about 911 is the fact that after all these years the US has not been attacked on it's own soil. After invading Afghanistan and IRAQ you would figure the terrorists that did 911 would do even larger attacks.

Thats why the war on terror is the biggest lie in American history.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
1.) According to my own two eyes, and youtube, the buildings came tumbling down. Did you expect them to cave in immediately after the planes struck?

So where is your evindece your reports thsat state the plane impacts brought them down?

Right Here


No better evidence than what you can see with your own two eyes, and interpret with your own 2nd grade common sense.


fast forward to 6:00


[edit on 7/30/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
No better evidence than what you can see with your own two eyes,

Sorry but here we deal with facts and evidence. So either show facts and evidnece or admit you live in a fantasy world and do not hasve any.

I can post facts and evidence why can't you?



[edit on 30-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Unbiased.

I dispute this.

I'm in the UK, and yet even I had questions on 9/11. Before I came here I didn't even give it a second thought, except for that nagging Pentagon shot shown live on the day that I just can't find now.

I'll never forget the immortal words saying that there was a fire at the Pentagon, which turned into explosion, then an aircraft. There were some early photos of what appeared to be a small hole in the wall, a window and a bit wide. It was easy to tell because it had a window to the side of it for comparison.

Then the WTC suddenly collapsed. Twice. My gut said CD (I even commented to my friend that buildings just don't fall down like that... twice).

People argue the buildings were of similar design/construction, but I argue the laws of nature don't work the same way twice. Both were hit differently on different floors. The second building to be hit collapsed first (just 57 minutes later). I was aware of the construction of the WTC from a documentary shot earlier. I remember seeing the architect in that documentary describing how the WTC was designed to sustain multiple aircraft impacts. Only one jet hit the building.

The Pentagon is strange indeed. Only after I came here did I find out that 80-odd videos have been withheld, but knew of the dodgy security booth photos from the TV.

Jus on these facts alone, there are more questions than answers (which usually indicates fabrication).

People argue "it was a 767, not a 707, it was heavier" etc.., but these assertions are incorrect. I'm not going to repeat the same old stuff.

The OS doesn't add-up. Period.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]