Knife on sale that can freeze its victim

Originally posted by LestatG





Wow this is one harsh weapon and so easily available and cheap. This is the last thing that Britain needs on the streets at the moment.

Surely a license for something like this should be needed.

Hope it does not spread, anyone used one of these or seen one in operation?

What do you think about it?

Peace,

Why pay so much money for an exotic waste-of-time object made by some big shot company that pays the police to 'keep quite' meaning ' i don't know'....when in fact they do know....it is the police that allow these things so that they can get others to do their dirty jobs.

if this gets a 'designer label' status.....others will follow

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

We do know what would happen - you'd be attacked and have no means of defending yourself because your loving government has disarmed you both physically and mentally.
Whereas someone like applebiter would defend himself with whatever was at hand - and the criminal wouldn't be able to hurt anyone else for a long time if ever again.

"When the Police State outlaws knives only outlaws will have knives"

Solution: Get rid of the police state.

So your solution would be that everybody carries a knife, because of the very slight chance they ever get attacked so that they can defend themselves?

I've never been attacked and never needed a knife, even if I carried a knife I would choose running away over knife to knife combat with someone. Firstly because both parties will probably end up injured, no-one will come away from that situation unscathed. Secondly because I have been in two fights in my life, both self-defence, both of which I have police cautions for. My word against someone else.

How would it end up with me alive covered in blood and someone dead on the floor from multiple stab wounds, we were both carrying knives, me for self-defence, him because he was attacking me. There are no witnesses. Who gets sent to jail for manslaughter?

edit - Realised me saying I've never been attacked and then saying I've been in two fights is a big ambiguous. I have never been attacked in the sense that someone I don't know has come up to me and tried to mug me for example.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by cleggy88]

reply to post by cleggy88


You do if you aren't familiar with the Constitution and the Self-defense laws in your country.

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

You do if you aren't familiar with the Constitution and the Self-defense laws in your country.

I am, but as I have already stated there was me and another person there at the time. We both got cautioned because of no witnesses.

What happens when the other person is dead? They can't give their side of the story, I'm the one covered in their blood with only minor injuries. Why are the police going to believe I killed the other person in self defence? It could have quite as easily been me as the assailant.

Keep in mind im asking this question as though the majority of people now carried knives, so neither of us would have been breaking the law in carrying the weapons.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by cleggy88]

reply to post by cleggy88


Let's assume you Ran away - as you said you would chose to do.

What if the assailant was a faster runner than you or corners you?
-You would have nothing to defend yourself, and clearly the police aren't helping you. What do you do?

Even if you don't have any money, Do you think he is going to let the witness live?

What do you do?

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

Let's assume you Ran away - as you said you would chose to do.

What if the assailant was a faster runner than you or corners you?
-You would have nothing to defend yourself, and clearly the police aren't helping you. What do you do?

Even if you don't have any money, Do you think he is going to let the witness live?

What do you do?

Well you managed to avoid my questions and ask your own but I will answer yours.

Even if it was legal to carry a knife, I wouldn't. I have no purpose for carrying one in my day to day life.

If he happens to be a faster runner or he corners me then it's tough # I guess, I would fight with what I could find and do my utmost to survive. I some how doubt carrying a knife would increase my chances of survival anyway, if someone was to attack me with a knife the chances are I wouldn't see it coming, so they would already have their knife to hand where as I would have to reach for mine.

Actually imagine yourself standing there face to face with someone each with a knife in your hands, would you know what to do? Would you know how to turn that situation to give you the upper hand? Unless you have trained then I guess the answer is no.

Carrying a knife would only slightly increase your chances of survival, if you even manage to get it out of your pocket in time.

You mention 'do you think he is going to let the witness live' say if it were legal to carry a knife and I killed someone attacking me, the police could just turn round and say you tried to mug him then killed him because you didn't want to let the witness live. It works both ways....

In britain you can run into youwn teritory (i.e. on your private land) use a blade to defend a blade and use the hilt in followthrough headshots. Provided you only strike their head with a blunt object, you can pick them up when they fall and do it over and over again and it is still legal. good luck if you are a million miles from home... and never become a black belt, cos that disqualifies that law due to personal control attributes black-belt should have that answered your question?

As for the knife, the New Scientist had an article about 7 years ago in it describing exactly how you could grow and produce tetradoxin in your back garden, surely if you want to kill someone, this is far better as you don't even have to penetrate the skin, because it seeps through, and dissintegrates within the human body in 12 hours.
As far as I can se we have no problem with the Shuko/Ashiko laws in britain liscenced to specific trades why shouldn't we just liscence them to whalers...(deliberate contradiction)

I own several blunts and some not so blunts, but they don't leave my house... Simply do what they did with the Bo Shaken blades: allow their sale to collectors, but remove the internal mechanism, collectors after all only need the looks of the thing...

[edit on 22/7/2008 by BlackSamurai04b]

Carrying a knife would only slightly increase your chances of survival, if you even manage to get it out of your pocket in time.

Simply not true. The ability of a victim to deliver a hard stab into an attacker's arm/leg while unable to escape a hold would heavily increase that person's chance of escaping, rather than relying on fists or nearby objects as you suggested one should do.

I guess it's just "tough" if someone happens to become a victim of an attack...









[edit on 22-7-2008 by Spreadthetruth]

OK...To people that think there will be a killing spree because this one weapon is made..You're wrong.
Secondly, anyone that wants to kill someone will get a $50.00 stolen gun and shoot the person they want to kill.
If they want the person killed quietly, they'll strangle them, or club them.
Chances are that these knives will probably never be used in the horrific ways you envision.
There are soooo many other ways to kill someone. If people did use this knife on others it would be gang on gang stuff, which I personally am fine with.
I like this knife and if it saves one person, it makes it that much better.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by Black69]

Originally posted by Spreadthetruth

Carrying a knife would only slightly increase your chances of survival, if you even manage to get it out of your pocket in time.

Simply not true. The ability of a victim to deliver a hard stab into an attacker's arm/leg while unable to escape a hold would heavily increase that person's chance of escaping, rather than relying on fists or nearby objects as you suggested one should do.

I guess it's just "tough" if someone happens to become a victim of an attack...
[edit on 22-7-2008 by Spreadthetruth]

What happens if you are attacked without warning and your assailant already has their knife to hand, the knife is stuck in you somewhere before you even have time to react. In that situation it's not going to help you at all.

cleggy88
Keep in mind im asking this question as though the majority of people now carried knives, so neither of us would have been breaking the law in carrying the weapons.

If the majority of people carry knives for self-defence, you can be sure people attacking others will be carrying knives.

reply to post by cleggy88


Solution: Carry Guns.

Clearly knives just don't have what it takes- according to you.

If every person was armed with a gun - crime would drop and your odds of finding yourself in such a dangerous position would drop dramatically.

Robbers and rapists would EXPECT to face a barrage of bullets heading towards them. They would likely move onto easier targets, such as people they know to be disarmed - which is what they do nowadays.

Lobby your local Politicians to ban Gun Restricting Laws and Repeal all Disarmament Acts. We must face the knife threat head-on!

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

Solution: Carry Guns.

Clearly knives just don't have what it takes- according to you.

If every person was armed with a gun - crime would drop and your odds of finding yourself in such a dangerous position would drop dramatically.

Robbers and rapists would EXPECT to face a barrage of bullets heading towards them. They would likely move onto easier targets, such as people they know to be disarmed - which is what they do nowadays.

Lobby your local Politicians to ban Gun Restricting Laws and Repeal all Disarmament Acts. We must face the knife threat head-on!

The chance of you actually being attacked are very very small anyway, guns or knives are not needed. In fact quite a few of the recent stabbings over here, it was reported that the victim was carrying a knife aswell or was killed with their own knife when they pulled it out to defend themselves.

Guns are not what are needed, a knife ban is not what is needed. What is needed is for the government to tackle the reason behind why kids carry knives and to send a clear message that it's not a normal thing to be done.

reply to post by cleggy88


How many years do you think an adult should spend in jail if they are caught carrying a knife and refuse to account for why they are carrying it?

How about a minor?

What should happen to that same adult if he is caught carrying a screwdriver?

Should we then limit the length of screwdrivers to make them less lethal?

You do realize people will circumvent police state laws when it comes to the protection of their families and themselves don't you?

comon some of you people scare me, what is a knife a tool but I`m a collector of knifes and this is different . imagine what they thought when the first blade or the first gun came out . I own some that are worse
but as a collector they are on display

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

How many years do you think an adult should spend in jail if they are caught carrying a knife and refuse to account for why they are carrying it?

How about a minor?

What should happen to that same adult if he is caught carrying a screwdriver?

Should we then limit the length of screwdrivers to make them less lethal?

You do realize people will circumvent police state laws when it comes to the protection of their families and themselves don't you?

Depends on the circumstances, why would you refuse to tell the police/courts why you were carrying it anyway?

Well if we were going to do it for screwdrivers I would have been locked up a long time ago, I carry them around and use them everyday, but I wouldn't take one out round town with me...

This discussion started as young kids carrying knives and stabbing each other, when did people carrying them for defence of their families come in?

I think you need to go outside and wander about and actually pay attention to what is going on around you, you must think everyone is out to get you or something, I cannot understand why you think everyone must be armed to the back teeth for self defence when the majority of people never end up in a situation where it is needed.

@anonymous - you collect them and they are on display, you don't carry around them with you? so I don't see the problem.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by cleggy88]

reply to post by cleggy88


You don't need a Reason to carry a knife - At least the Constitution states that you don't have to Tell anyone why you are doing what you are doing. You have the right to remain silent.

Why do you think that Society will only be safe when the Non-Criminals are full disarmed?

Don't you know Criminals will always obtain weapons and apply them in their work?

I'm a Retired Doctor, and you right.... I do think everyone should be armed to the teeth - as it is their right.
That and it takes 10 minutes for the police to arrive after dialing 911 - which really is the crux of the problem.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by applebiter


Well, videogames are a passion of mine, but a whole other matter, I'll try not to go too far off topic in replying. But yes I can see why you'd make that analogy. The main difference between these two topics that are that videogames are part of the underlying cause of violence, and knives are the tools of violence.

Violence has many causes, and each one should be examined carefully. But by who? Do we really want the government interfering with our lives on the macro level? carefully censoring every aspect of a child's upbringing, monitoring their influences, the games they play, the music they listen to, and the tv shows they watch? This is the job of parents, if parents want to be bad parents, and instill no moral responsibility to their children, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Any attempts to modify how parents bring up their children brings cries of Nanny State from everyone. And quite rightly, our government is very good at using sledgehammers to crack walnuts. I don't want my niece and nephew, or future kids of mine to be reigned in by unreasonable laws, caused by bad parents.

A sidebar about the character in my avatar. In Assassin's Creed the main character is a hoody wearing fellow who stabs people for a living. Although this game tries to portray him as morally right for killing bad people, he struggles with his conscience throughout the game in wondering if the killing is morally justified for the people he is saving. This kind of moralizing is lost on many kids who play this game, and a lot of kids have played it. The game is certified at 15, because it contains minimal blood. I think this is a mistake, the game should be rated higher, and less children should have access to this violent content. I don't know how it's possible to regulate this, and neither do any of the parenting groups or governments, this is why the topic of banning violent games comes up again and again.

I don't have any solutions to this problem. But as a gamer I'm not going to defend games and say they aren't an underlying cause for this, they are. I believe hoody stabbings spiked after the release of Assassin's Creed in this country, as sad as that is.

Everyone in this topic has made great points, and I agree with everyone here on a broad level. However discussions like this always end up trying to find solutions to problems, and that is where disagreement begins. There is a great problem facing all of us, in that we are being pacified by our governments, being made easier to control. There is also a problem of violent crime, the media is exaggerating the problem sure, and the government is using this to push through laws to criminalize us further. If I lived in a comfortable middle class area these kind of laws might bother me, but I don't. I've been beaten up walking back from work early in the morning by a group of drunk guys, two of them held me down and the other one was kicking and punching my head, and the rest just watched. If I wasn't so furious and yelling for them to let me up and fight one at a time, perhaps it would've lasted for longer and I would have gotten a more severe beating. I thank my lucky stars they were on the way back from a club, and none of them had dared to carry a knife in there.



[edit on 24-7-2008 by unnamedninja]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by cleggy88

 

You don't need a Reason to carry a knife - At least the Constitution states that you don't have to Tell anyone why you are doing what you are doing. You have the right to remain silent.

Why do you think that Society will only be safe when the Non-Criminals are full disarmed?

Don't you know Criminals will always obtain weapons and apply them in their work?

I'm a Retired Doctor, and you right.... I do think everyone should be armed to the teeth - as it is their right.
That and it takes 10 minutes for the police to arrive after dialing 911 - which really is the crux of the problem.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by TruthTellist]

Actually you do need a reason to carry a knife, unless it's within the legal standards for carrying one, you can only have one if it is for your trade for example. (UK law here btw) So why would you not give a reason if it came to court, would you stand there in silence to be sent down because you didn't want to tell them you were using it while you were camping?

I think society will be safer when everyone is disarmed, rather than everyone being armed to the teeth.

It may the right for everyone to be armed in the US, but that isn't the case over here, and it's not something we need or want (imo)

@unnamedninja - You can't really blame computer games for violence in my opinion...

reply to post by cleggy88


But Criminals don't obey the Law - and we aren't just talking about people who are criminals just for carrying a knife.

I am referring to Career Criminals.

Disarming Honest citizens will only make it easier for them (criminals) - as you can see that is the case in England where the criminals know the public are 'easy pickins' as the LAW puts only the honest people at a disadvantage.



[edit on 24-7-2008 by TruthTellist]

Meanwhile another thousand Brits die prematurely from ingesting their lard laden diet.

Here's a wild guess, I hereby predict that not a single Brit dies from frozen internal organs in the next 50 years.

This is such incredible police induced silliness, the plain old knife is an admirably efficient killer on its own.

Does anyone remember the Mets last super weapon warning - it was the .22 caliber cell phone which was also expected to flood the streets with leaden death. Exact number of fatalities - zero (of course).

You really need to get a grip and THINK these things through, you are all blindly following the spin that these people peddle to the masses. Develop some independent thought and analyse things.