There will be no uprising in America.

Originally posted by dominicus
To the OP, I know if you've nticed, but the constitution doesnt work anymore, in its place we have the patriot act, gloabl fascism, and just last week a law was passed that allows the U.S. Gove to spy on all U.S. citizens.

I dont know what cave you've been in since 9/11, but there so me real factual stuff going on if you havent noticed recently, and honestly this post cracks me up.

Cameras in every major city, tazers for no reason sometimes, economy crackin under the pressure, food and gas is sky high.......are you blind and living ina cave?????

I'm not the OP, but I am looking for a cave to live in, because all of this scary crap going on right now is right out of Sarah Connor's worst nightmare.

I'm even willing to entertain the whole Barbara Bush is Aleister Crowley's bastard child business, because the only thing I can figure out is that George Bush and the people in charge now must be children of the devil.

But since I can't run and hide, I am going to have to learn how to rise up and do something constructive to stop the madness.

** We'll have to wait until July 31st, 2008 for the latest numbers . . . but...
In a discussion here on credibility of sources a generous fellow ATS user directed me to the BEA from The US Department of Commerce website.

The discussion centered around WHO to trust for credible data and interpretation. The gracious fellow ATS user expressed mistrust in larger media outlets and felt that the Governemnt itself was trustworthy in matters of National finance.

We aslo touched on the fact that social upheaval may occurr in prosperous times as well as not-so-prosperous times.
And that the market itself is highly responsive to consumer confidence, and in a mass-media dominated society this can be dangerous.

The following figures demonstrate a couple of over-riding themes. One is the continued practice of outsourcing, globalization, "offshoring" and a general decline in the strength of the US home (domestic) market and workforce.

Recall that growth itself is not necessarily indicative of a healthy economy. The US is used to a rapid and voracious growth rate and after many long years, it's finally slowing. This is unusual for us. The type of growth that has long-characterized the US economy is no more.

I'm not a psychic, but people have rioted for a lot less than this!

See figures from BEA.
Link to source:www.bea.gov...




That last little anomalous spike in disposable income, I believe, was brought to you courtesy of GW Bush. The graph is from May '07 to May '08. And I never got a check..



But like I said, you'll have to wait until July for the latest numbers from these fellas.
And thanks again to my fellow ATSer for showing me some credible data.

President Bush is under 34 counts of impeachment....end of story.
If a president can get away with 34 counts of murder, conspiracy, and money laundering, imagine what else goes on at lower levels of eployment.
case closed.

Originally posted by ziggy1706
President Bush is under 34 counts of impeachment....end of story. If a president can get away with 34 counts of murder, conspiracy, and money laundering, imagine what else goes on at lower levels of eployment. case closed.

Nonsense. There are no impeachment proceedings underway now or ever. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has already made it clear that no such action will be taken.

Sorry, Bush-Bashers, No Impeachment Proceedings

Do you know why? Because there is no evidence of high crimes. No evidence whatsoever. As presidents go, this one is boringly clean, my friend.

And, as much as the shallow, seething fanatics out there may rant and foam, your hatred and twisting of the truth does not an impeachment make.

Now, regarding the OP, I don't even see the point of this thread. The OP flatly and omnisciently states that nothing will happen, then challenges others to build-up plausible scenarios of meltdown. Which would lead me to believe that the OP is merely fishing for a brawl.




[edit on 7/16/2008 by Doc Velocity]

I think the OP makes a few good points. I also found it difficult to believe that the US Military wold stand against it's own... notice I said that in past tense?

What I see now leads me to believe differently. Today the military takes people who 10 years ago would be refused. Anyone with drug charges 10 yers ago could not get into the military... thats not the case anymore. Felons 10 years ago were not allowed into the Military.. not anymore. Now the military is their "second chance".

Also I must ask... if so much of our military is overseas and, as reported, the US would be unable to defend it's own boarders if need be.... what makes you think it would be US soldiers who stand against US citizens? It may not be US soldiers, it may very well be foriegn troops who train here. Or maybe it could be a private group such as Blackwater.

Tonight I had a conversation with a guy who will beleaving in 2 hours fro now for his second tour in Iraq. I mentioned to him how I would refuse the order. It is an illegal war... his reponse? "I wasn't doing anything over here anyway but getting myself put into jail. Besides we get away with a lot over there. We kill a lot of mother *snip*ers over there. A lot. We also kill a lot of mother *snip*ers that we are not supposed to." I didnt ask for any clarification, I already knew the answers.

So with this type of mentality.. he already knows what he is doing is wrong. He doesn't care. Why wouldnt these people stand against their own based on orders?

I agree there will probably be no uprising because people in this country are so used to being shafted that they will just bend over and take it some more. Too many people are blind and many simply do not care as long as it does not effect their day to day routine. I agree there will be no uprising.. but I suer do pray there is a revolution. This country needs one if it wants to remain "the land of the free". Our government does not work. It is a self serving entity that cares nothing about the will of the people and this country was founded on the will of the people, and it is our DUTY to make sure it remains that way.

Look, regarding who will handle a citizen's revolt, there is already a precedent for this. Hurricane Katrina.

During and after the storm, New Orleans city government evaporated, Louisiana State government turned away offers of assistance, and FEMA stood by waiting for a green light to move in. As if they needed one.

When FEMA did finally move into New Orleans, an organized effort to disarm the citizens was mounted by...who do you think? No, not the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines. It was the National Guard. Elements of the Louisiana and Oklahoma National Guard, as well as the remaining New Orleans police officers, went house-to-house in some neighborhoods, literally kicking in doors and holding the terrified residents at gunpoint as they confiscated legally-owned firearms.

That's as real as it gets, kids. When TSHTF, it won't be "foreign troops" marching through your streets, and there won't be Marine platform snipers hovering over your neighborhood.

It'll be your neighbor in the National Guard who comes to your door with a battering ram and backup, demanding that you surrender your firearms. This only makes sense. Send in the lowly Guard, let them take the hit first; more likely, this will reduce the incidents of actual urban combat. People aren't going to shoot their old Guard buddies who live just down the street, are they?

Regardless of whether or not you think a revolt will take place, you'd better believe that our central government is gearing up for one, and we already have solid proof that the National Guard is well-rehearsed in disarming U.S. citizens.




[edit on 7/16/2008 by Doc Velocity]

Hi Guys,

Over here in the UK the # has really hit the fan!! Petrol/Gas is around £8.00 a gallon that's $16.00 per gallon in your money!!

Food is up around 8% although it's more like 30% when you look at it properly.

The BNP (british national party) is gaining seats over every constituancy in the UK. This party is classed as racist by many in the UK but are gaining votes fast as they have come up with a massive plan to stop immigration!!!!

Immigration costs the UK several billion per year mainly due to our soft as # policys on it!!!

THE US AND UK ARE IN FOR A VERY ROUGH RIDE FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS PLUS.

I REALLY WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE IRAN INVADED OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS JUST SO WE CAN STRIP THEM OF ALL THEIR ASSETS JUST LIKR IRAQ.

THE ONLY REASON WE NEVER TOOK A HARD LINE OVER NORTH KOREA IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY WOULD WHIP OUR ASSES WITH THE 12-20 MILLION STRONG ARMY THEY HAVE!!!!

I am getting really tired of people here calling anyone who doesn't agree with their viewpoint a "government agent".

I honestly believe you are mentally disturbed if that is the first place you go when someone disagrees with you. In fact, I think many of you have borderline paranoia disorder. (That's probably a given on a site like this.) J

Then I get the "your well off" comments, like I must be rich, that's why I don't get it..

And how many posts start with a theme of "you have a blind love of country" or something equally absurd? I lost count. Many of you are equating my original post as an "America is Great" "The Government is your friend" propaganda.

And lets not forget the poor analogies to our current situation.
”Hitler”, “Stalin” “1920 Depression” “Fall of Rome”
No one takes into account that yea, Rome fell, but it wasn’t exactly the same situation as today. No one thinks the “1920 were tough, but they didn’t have the technology, infrastructure or people we have today”…

Why is NOTHING ever viewed critically on this site (9/11 as an exception)? How many posts so far have references a wiki article about Hitler or WWII? Enough said I think.



What troubles me most is that while I read about 40-50% of ALL posts on this site, I respond to or challenge very few. I pick my battles, but it seems like we just have a glut of "you suck" "you're wrong, I'm right", "your a government agent" winners here, it seems many post just to post.

And the context mistakes are enormous. So many people have tried to twist what I said into something it is not it makes you wonder if they are doing it on purpose or truly do not have the ability to comprehend what is being said…


For the record…
I specifically said that I didn’t think it couldn't happen, only that it wouldn't.
America will NOT have an uprising. We will not implode.

I asked for a scenario of what could cause it (instead of ramblings about this or that) and I got nothing but "government is tapping me", "The fall of Rome" and "history repeats itself" and "all empires fall" that same CRAP I am railing against.

I want a plausible scenario to back up all these claims of the fall of America. Simple.

I give up, I take it back, I shouldn't have posted the thread, because now I have even less faith in the lot of you.

You know what sticks the fork in it for me? The guys who say “it’s can’t happen huh? just wait and see….”

I guess that’s the classic ATS response.

This is my first post here on ATS so here goes. I respect the OP's optimism and he might even be right, but he keeps asking for proof that America will fail. Whether it is a standard reply or not the fact is historically the failure rate of empires is 100% so I think the burden of proof is on the OP to tell why America is different. I'm not some loon saying there is going to be a shootout on the steps of the capital. I'm just saying that the American empire will fail, and in my opinion it will be in the near future. Our technology and what is left of our constitution has allowed us to push the boulder farther up this mountain than any other empire in history, but as far as we know there is no top and eventually we will get tired and the boulder will crush us. Nothing is for sure and I might be just blowing hot air here that is my 2 cents.
I appreciate this forum and everyone on it from the skeptics to the most far out conspiracy theorists Thanks.

Originally posted by durk2000
This is my first post here on ATS so here goes. I respect the OP's optimism and he might even be right, but he keeps asking for proof that America will fail. Whether it is a standard reply or not the fact is historically the failure rate of empires is 100% so I think the burden of proof is on the OP to tell why America is different. I'm not some loon saying there is going to be a shootout on the steps of the capital. I'm just saying that the American empire will fail, and in my opinion it will be in the near future. Our technology and what is left of our constitution has allowed us to push the boulder farther up this mountain than any other empire in history, but as far as we know there is no top and eventually we will get tired and the boulder will crush us. Nothing is for sure and I might be just blowing hot air here that is my 2 cents.
I appreciate this forum and everyone on it from the skeptics to the most far out conspiracy theorists Thanks.

I didn't ask for "proof" ( and I certainly didn't "keep" asking for it)
I asked for a scenario that would cause America to have an "uprising"...
Re-read my original post.


No one can provide "proof" one way or another.. that why this is a conspiracy website. There is no proof here. Only opinion, conjecture, sprinkled with some ignorance and insanity.


I appreciate that you are "new" here, but please don't fall into the trap.

Originally posted by thecandyman
When FDIC steps in, anything you have in a single savings acct over 100,000 could be history. They will only insure that amount. There are ways around it... but most banks won't tell you about it. There are many people in California with over that amount and who probably just lost a substantial amount of savings. So yeah, if my bank had closed and FDIC had taken it over 6 months ago, I would have lost 500,000... thank God I read conspiracy boards and found out that I needed to put my money into different accounts. INDYMAC is NOT the safest bank in the country, it's one step away from closing.

The problem with this is that the total number of people who had assets over $100,000 was extremely small because this was not a major depositor bank, and the number of people lining up and panicking on cue for the media far exceeds that number by several magnitudes. Not to mention, as I just posted literally a page or two ago in this thread, any simple glance at the majority of other bank failures shows FDIC is able to recover, in many cases, 95-100% of all assets over 100k.

If you move your money around based on conspiracy boards your going to live a rather terrified and paranoid life. Anyone with more than 100k that is single and cant set up a POD should never have 100k in any bank as a matter of good financial sense. It has nothing to do with conspiracy boards where people predict the end of America on a daily basis.

Yes, IndyMac is NOW THE SAFEST BANK IN THE COUNTRY as it is under the control of the FDIC. You can't get any safer. Anyone panicking over it at this point just wants to act hysterical.

Originally posted by thecandyman
You stated that the United States in no way resembles Germany in Hitler's time. I'll direct your attention to Naomi Wolf who spells it out for you step by step.

This didn't show that at all. That showed a well known left-wing propaganda alarmist trying to drum up the talking points of the DNC. Yet again, no one has any research to support the propaganda that the US is somehow like natzi Germany. I still await any actual research on this, but I suspect no one has any because its simply not true.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by durk2000


Many of these users are equally rabid on both sides of an issue and don't hesitate to use all the Union House tactics in a debate.
Cheap. You can ignore someone the second they raise government plant terms, contradict themselves knowingly, or pull the old Catch 22, double-jeopardy.
I ignore people who won't state for the record what their personal threshold/burden of proof is.

*****In a thread like this, I don't even know what the question is anymore.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
The discussion centered around WHO to trust for credible data and interpretation. The gracious fellow ATS user expressed mistrust in larger media outlets and felt that the Governemnt itself was trustworthy in matters of National finance.

Funny, some user was just telling me about how the mass media is such a trustworthy source, and not vetted government data sources where paranoid conspiracy theorists like to complain about it all day but never have any proof of them being wrong. Just a hint for you: the media is an opinion, the data itself does not lie. The people spinning it (as you are about to try to do) are the ones up to no good.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
We aslo touched on the fact that social upheaval may occurr in prosperous times as well as not-so-prosperous times.

Actually I believe you were beating a straw man to death on that, as it was moot and had no relevance to the thread.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
The following figures demonstrate a couple of over-riding themes. One is the continued practice of outsourcing, globalization, "offshoring" and a general decline in the strength of the US home (domestic) market and workforce.

Wrong. Not only do they not show that, but this is probably the most astounding example of a non sequitur logical fallacy in ATS history. As my previously displayed evidence about the growth in GDP and wages shows, outsourcing and globalization is a natural consequence of the country evolving and moving to a knowledge based economy and is having no negative impact on us.

Its especially laughable that you try to make this non-sequitur because its well known that outsourcing occurs in the US BECAUSE the strength of the US economy and dollar is too high at home which makes the manufacturing of goods locally too high compared to doing it elsewhere. But of course you would just ignore the facts on that, wouldn't you? You know its bad when even wikipedia acknowledges this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by djerwulfe
Recall that growth itself is not necessarily indicative of a healthy economy. The US is used to a rapid and voracious growth rate and after many long years, it's finally slowing. This is unusual for us. The type of growth that has long-characterized the US economy is no more.

Wrong again. The type of growth that has long characterized the US economy has not been rapid, because rapid growth as we have seen in developing countries is bad for infrastructure and puts undue pressure on industry. Rapid expansion often leads to rapid collapse. It is only recent history, colored by the propaganda of media, that has had "rapid growth" as the data shows:

www.bea.gov... LastYear=2007&3Place=N&AllYearsChk=YES&Update=Update&JavaBox=no#Mid

It is a good thing we are finally slowing down to a normal rate, although the reality is our growth is still quite high and this may only be a temporary slowdown.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
I'm not a psychic, but people have rioted for a lot less than this!

No, they haven't. You made a huge non-sequitur trying to link mundane facts to horrible generalizations. First prove that outsourcing and globalization are somehow representative of "declining" status as a country.

Thanks for showing yet again that there is no doom and gloom. Once you look at the data over time, and not just the past few years, it becomes very clear just how good things are. Nice attempt to spin the data and cherry pick the dates, but I'm afraid logic and the data wins again and shows your wrong.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS Hey Anonymous , It Seems You Play Both Sides Of The Fence When You Post Your Thoughts . You Say One Thing , Completely Agreeing With One Post And The Next Moment You Turn Around And Disagree With The Same Poster . ? What Gives ? Are You An Agitator? Or Is That Just The Way You Play The Game ?

I agree with your original statement that there won't be an uprising, at least not a violent one. I guess my issue is with the tone of your post that seems to me to say that the crisis we are in now is just another bump on the road of America's prosperity like the savings and loan and commercial real estate crises. We are following down the same path of gradual currency destruction, expansion of government power, and overtaxation that brought down other empires throughout history. My point is that you might be the "crazy" one here saying the empire is going to endure when it has NEVER happened before. So maybe you should be providing a non ridiculous and plausible "scenario" that will make us believe your outlandish idea. Thanks and please don't confuse "new" with "stupid"

This is essentially a class issue. While offshoring is indicative of a CERTAIN SPECIFIC TYPE OF GROWTH - it does not bode well for the millions of unskilled, blue collar people in the US.

And that's what the thread is about. An elite few raking in huge profits is not a clear indicator of the situation "on the ground."

WWII. US. We were in production overtime, yet people were rationed goods.

And riots are not negligible events. That was what I assumed the whole thing is about.
"Will there be chaotic public behavior as a result of a volatile economy?"
If that is the question then the answer is "probably."

The graphs show the trends in recent times.

Conitnued movement of goods and services overseas. A drop in domestic disposable income. Rising consumer prices., etc.

This is just becoming philosophical. One man's thriving economy is slavery for another.
And one man's hopeless destitution is another man's fortune.
Any signifiacnt change has casualties.
The US has historically had strong steady growth. I believe Haliburton stocks have risen sharply in apparent negative correlation with crude oil prices.

Just becasue someone says "wrong" and that a point isn't important to them, doesn't make their position truth.

And so I carry on...

More Lies from that damned organ of something sinister ...
The Associate Press!!!! NOooooo!!!!!...
www.msnbc.msn.com...

And consumer confidence/public opinion is one of the STRONGEST factors in market behavior.

Even if these are lies, if it's what the majority believes, who cares???