Rare Footage -- Flight 93 Shootdown Award

well, i read this and its all based on an interview with a "col de grand-pre"
and when i read that, i honestly about busted out laughing. cmon does that NOT sound like a made up name to anyone else? (grand prix?)

but, in the spirit of openmindedness, i figured id go on one of the many military sites that catelogues all us former military people and look him up. yet, oddly enough, under no permutation of the name i could think of could i find a "de grand-pre" having ever been in the USAF or any other branch of the military (i myself am listed 3 times oddly enough...)

so, maybe someone with more resources than the rest of us can find him and tell us if this is even likely to have come from a real USAF officer, but until someone can prove to me that this col even exists, im chucking this one up as more hard hitting journalism by alex jones.

and trying not to laugh too hard while im at it

Its amazing how a policeman can shot down a big airplane that was so high that even the bullets couldn't go that far up. But the US airforce couldn't do it because they weren't there. How did the policeman know that that plane was highjacked anyway. Rummy was lying all the time and with a straight face at that. Well. I suppose he thought that most people are just plain stupid. Shame on them for all this misinformation and not anything will be done about it which is the sad part.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Fighter radar can have phantom blips put on it, but they are put on generally by AWACS or something else using a datalink. If the datalink isn't active, then the radar would use "real" targets. On that day the ONLY fighters that would have had phantom blips on them would be in an exercise. You wouldn't be able to set ALL fighter radars to show false returns.

Wow, I was wondering when this would be mentioned.

CNN reported -- and there were numerous eyewitnesses who reported a white plane with a big bump on top. I have a theory that the two Government planes -- like the AWACS that are used sort of as a floating command and control center, were in the general area of the attacks on that day. It would fit with some people thinking they say a cruise missile and such. At a distance, it would just look like a white, lumpy plane.

I forget the name for this craft, debunking being more of a hobby -- but it took over from the CC-1 and CC-2; www.coldwar.org...

Anyway, I could see how the presence of this plane was innocent enough. They would of course go to investigate an attack and be aloft if the White House were hit. It would just be like Bushies to worry about the appearance of infallibility -- because they are all corrupt or incompetent, and just deny it was there -- state secrets.

That of course, could be the cover story. But it could also be the ship introducing the ghost images on the radar. Likely, the average patriotic soldier would keep quiet about that, because such a plane could not have helped and its better the public not have to question everything -- only, such a plane could easily have guided F-16s to the attack or put off false radar signatures.

Just a thought. I really don't know what happened. This was another tidbit that could have been speculation, rumor, dis-info, or truth. That's what happens when you have sneaky, incompetent and/or corrupt government.

>> Is the idea that Marvin Bush had a company that took over for the WTC security in 2001 another coincidence to be brushed off?

The plane with the big bump was an E-4B NAOC. Sorry, on the way out the door, but I'll post more later on it. It is NOT capable of putting phantom returns on fighter radar.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by BASSPLYR

 

A 757 isn't a jumbo jet, but that's another story.

NORAD radars are mostly FAA radars. The military radars that NORAD uses are along the coastlines looking OUT of the US. NORAD ties into FAA ATC radars for internal coverage. There are some military radars internally but mostly for air traffic control purposes. The military was more concerned with looking for waves of bombers and missiles coming into the US than tracking planes already inside the US.

>> You know, that makes total sense that the military would use civilian radar. But I really dislike that people think that the military is this stupid--it insults either them or everybody who they think would believe it.

Why, if they cannot track planes inside the US -- what the HELL do they think that an enemy bomber would be doing? Maybe they'd do lazy eights off the seaboard, or just not bother with fighter jets. I'm thinking that a submarine firing from 50 ft of water is also something that is totally inconceivable. Let's get rid of those multi-billion dollar nuclear subs because they are not good for the war on Democracy -- I mean terror.

Of COURSE we can track every damn plane in the air on transponder or off -- and if that isn't the case, then there needs to be a firing squad. I'm sure that if you go off transponder -- the FAA has a big blinking light on their screens, and would be saying; "unidentified aircraft at long 122 lat 123 please identify yourself" or something of that nature. If people who do this 24/7/365 aren't able to handle that or think about it -- this is another field in which I should be put in as supreme commander. I didn't know I was this smart.

I was ridiculed on this blog a month ago, for suggesting that the Government was claiming they couldn't track planes off transponder -- well, at least you are -- because I've heard this before. "More Concerned" with is a lot different than NOT TRACKING. I dare you to try and pass over the White House with a hang glider -- I just dare you.

You know, just in case. We should make it a policy that top military brass should just use a ritual sword and disembowel themselves on principle when the failure is this huge.

I have a really good imagination. And whenever I hear people talking about the military "not thinking about planes flying into buildings" it makes me think I must be the greatest military genius on the planet because I'm smarter than the pentagon. Why doesn't someone recommend putting me in charge, and in a week, I could come up with "don't have all your defense involved in drills at one time" -- "have a safe word that calls off any drill in case there is a LIVE event" -- I could be here all day improving military regulations. I really don't know why they even have a military academy if these people don't have bigger brains than this.

>> And another coincidence. In 1999 a directive was passed changing the protocol for shoot down orders, from Field Commanders to just three people; The President, The Vice President, and Donald Rumsfeld and that became effective -- I think in July of 2001. Just when Silverstein tripled his insurance coverage.

I could fill a book with coincidences -- keep 'em coming!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by tide88

 

The plane was shoot down because the hi-jackers lost control of the plane.
The plane could not be allowed to land with the living hi-jackers aboard.

My point was the OP doesnt think there were highjackers in the first place. Because if there were highjackers all of his other threads all over this sites and points would not add up.

Originally posted by Damocles
so, maybe someone with more resources than the rest of us can find him and tell us if this is even likely to have come from a real USAF officer, but until someone can prove to me that this col even exists, im chucking this one up as more hard hitting journalism by alex jones.

You didn't look too hard:

Donn De Grand Pre'

Profile: Author of the book Barbarians Inside The Gates: The Black Book of Bolshevism. Donn is retired military. Served in WWII and the Korean "police action". Stated reason for the book: to sound the alarm, U.S. military is being downsized, downgraded, degraded and demoralized. Barbarians/Bolshivists in charge hold the highest ranks of military office. Published in 2000, Barbarians brings us to present day.

Address: Grand Pre' Books, Inc., PO Box 1124 / Madison, Virginia 22727
Phone: 1-800-603-3575 (For Visa and Mastercard orders only!)

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Donn de Grand Pre, a retired Army colonel, is author of A Window on America, Confessions of an Arms Peddler, and his latest, Barbarians Inside the Gates.

Donn de Grand Pre
THE ENEMY IS INSIDE THE GATES

Colonel Donn de Grand Pre (ret), in his book, "The Viper's Venom" concludes that the 911 terror attacks were done by remote control technology. Grand Pre was the top US arms dealer to the Middle East under the Ford and Carter administrations. What he saw caused him to leave government service and begin investigating the forces he saw warping our nation's destiny.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The plane with the big bump was an E-4B NAOC. Sorry, on the way out the door, but I'll post more later on it. It is NOT capable of putting phantom returns on fighter radar.

Thanks--- that sounds about like the plane I was trying to remember. So it was the NAOC that CNN had a report on -- but again we can't be sure.

You will have to tell us how they got there then. I can't wait.

What does it actually take to project a phantom return? My guess is that you would need TWO planes or Radar Sources, and a fast computer to compute how to get them to create a legitimate seeming phantom for 1 plane, while tracking that planes radar pulses. However, if you were not trying to make it legitimate, but a whole bunch of ghosts, so that you couldn't find a real plane, then it wouldn't require no more than two planes projecting radar that interfered at points. I'm not sure how far apart the two transmitters would need to be -- it's conceivable if you knew the location of the target to be fooled they could be on the same plane.

But I'm sure this has been researched. It would seem like a good electronic countermeasure for a flying emergency war room and command post.

But I'm no expert in that at all. Just simulating the physics in my brain.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


>> Oh, and I have to admit, I don't know why this topic came up. I'm guessing there might have been some talk that one of the scrambled jets that went out to sea might have been unable to find its target.

I'd say, just like stealing Kennedy's brain -- this puts the scope of this affair outside the abilities of a single shooter or OBL.

Originally posted by IvanZana
FLight 93 was a cruise missile or non exsitant.

There was no shootdown as the crater lacks any debris.

No plane crashed in SHanksville on 911.

Notcie how on the other flight 93 threads the debunkers get debunked and failed to prove a plane crashed in Shanksville then straw men threads come up like this one.

The military was in the air over Pennsylvania conducting cruise missile intercepts, mock live fly hijackings. The Johnstown terror team practiced and were practicing this sort of thing in the weeks leading up to and on 911.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by IvanZana]

Not you again. So the residents of shanksville (that have lived there their who lives) and witnesseed the plane, actually saw a plane crashing, are in on the conspiracy. You keep on saying there is no debris but I keep showing you photos. You say there is no evidence but the evidence is overwhelming a plane crashed there. Was it shot down, maybe, although I think not. But there was a plane, that was highjacked, that crashed in shanksville. I dont even have to post the links of the debris for you because I have done so many times on other threads and you just completely ignore it. Like you last theory that the plane crashed into a mining scar and that was the reason that those wing marks are a result of that scar. And guess what? When I actually proved to you that those mining scars were nowhere near where the plane crashed you just ignored it. Went on to another theory. Gimmie a break, Ivan. You are the most ....... person i have ever had a discussion with.

I remember clear as day on 9/11 an eyewitness on the news saying he saw a fighter shoot down an airplane (flight 93) this was merely an hour or so after it went down. After that I saw no more statements from witnesses being reported.

I don't see the point of arguing it.

Everyone with half a clue know flight 93 was taken out by a missile.

Rumsfeld himself said so.

I mean sheesh you can't pick and choose when and what you want to believe from the government. The guy made a HUGE freudian slip and the truth came out.

You know why? Because it's alot easier to tell the truth than a lie.

I don't think the video really proves anything except that ND ceremonies are way too long and boring and the band plays way too much.

But crap a debris field spread over a couple football fields long, when the plane "supposedly" went into the grand like a dart, makes Zero sense.

The crash site, and Rumsfeld himself saying 93 WAs SHOT DOWN is enough for me, thanks.

The official story people are always saying no one can keep a lie that big, well your right, they can't, Rumsfeld proves that.

Now that we KNOW they lied about flight 93, you have to wonder....., what else might they be lying about.

and....wow, Swamp fox, you being an Airforce guy, holy crap, I never knew that, so many things make so much sense to me now. I knew you were blindly biased for a reason, but only until this post did I find out why. Wow, That made my day.

Everyone who believes the official story is either biased, or uninformed. Some are biased for perfectly legitimate reasons, some...., well not so much.

But as an impartial middle class working american I can truely say 9-11 had it's proper effect on me. I wanted the entire Middle east Nuked to the ground on 9/11. People who are uninformed, and mostly misinformed by the mass media still feel that way, these are the people I loath.

I was one of them for about a year, till I looked for myself. Dare I say sometimes I wish I hadn't.

I see these people who actually trust these chuckle heads that are covertly running the world, by pulling the strings from offstage walk around without a care in the world. Everything is fine, America is at war , and all is as it should be.

Ignorance is truely Bliss.

But some of us are actually brave enough to climb into that hole, and take a peek, and look around. It is us who will overthrow The Very, and I say VERY small group that runs this world. I await this day with much anticipation.

I understand your scared. Yes you know who you are, everything you thought was true, and good, and honorable, has actually been one HUGE lie, and that right there is too much for any Career military man to accept. But there will be a select few, who will rise above this fear, this veil of blissful ignorance, and make a difference.

YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

[edit on 10-7-2008 by Nola213]

Originally posted by Maya432
wow... the truthers in here are getting really good at this game...
the debunkers here are starting to sound like angry children,
attacking any way that they can, using no logic whatsoever..

the MSM Propaganda is alive and well in the blog forums, and its so transparent;
the way debunkers attempt to de-rail and debunk is really sad.

I guess i`m only acting as an observer and score keeper...
I know being a truther myself, My opinions rather one sided, but
still,

SCORE:
truthers =100
debunkers = 0

keep up the good work people
never be afraid to spread the truth...

LOL you posted the same thing on a different thread yesterday. (the score part) You should really come up with some new material. Of course you are going to score it that way. You are a so called "truther"

Originally posted by liamoohay
I remember clear as day on 9/11 an eyewitness on the news saying he saw a fighter shoot down an airplane (flight 93) this was merely an hour or so after it went down. After that I saw no more statements from witnesses being reported.

Not true, although there are two witnesses who thought it was shot down. One girl said it sounded as if it was shot down, and another vietnam vet said he knew he heard a missle. But no one claims to have seen a fighter shoot it down. And there are not claims of anyone seeing a fighter jet in the vicinity. If there was one many people would of heard or seen it. After all many people report that two other planes were indeed in the vicinity.

From Popular Mechanics:

F-16 Pilot
Claim: In February 2004, retired Army Col. Donn de Grand-Pre said on "The Alex Jones Show," a radio talk show broadcast on 42 stations: "It [Flight 93] was taken out by the North Dakota Air Guard. I know the pilot who fired those two missiles to take down 93." LetsRoll911.org, citing de Grand-Pre, identifies the pilot: "Major Rick Gibney fired two Sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in midflight at precisely 0958."

FACT: Saying he was reluctant to fuel debate by responding to unsubstantiated charges, Gibney (a lieutenant colonel, not a major) declined to comment. According to Air National Guard spokesman Master Sgt. David Somdahl, Gibney flew an F-16 that morning--but nowhere near Shanksville. He took off from Fargo, N.D., and flew to Bozeman, Mont., to pick up Ed Jacoby Jr., the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office. Gibney then flew Jacoby from Montana to Albany, N.Y., so Jacoby could coordinate 17,000 rescue workers engaged in the state's response to 9/11. Jacoby confirms the day's events. "I was in Big Sky for an emergency managers meeting. Someone called to say an F-16 was landing in Bozeman. From there we flew to Albany." Jacoby is outraged by the claim that Gibney shot down Flight 93. "I summarily dismiss that because Lt. Col. Gibney was with me at that time. It disgusts me to see this because the public is being misled. More than anything else it disgusts me because it brings up fears. It brings up hopes — it brings up all sorts of feelings, not only to the victims' families but to all the individuals throughout the country, and the world for that matter. I get angry at the misinformation out there."

reply to post by GoldenFleece


lol no i wouldnt claim i looked REAL hard at all really. but your OP listed him as a USAF Col and your recent post lists him as a retired Army Col from the ww2-late 70's era, as most of my looking was in the USAF listings i probably could have looked all day and missed anything.

i still cant find him specifically (sorry but id just prefer to find him listed somewhere other than a CT site or his own publishers site even though i mean its not like anyone ever fibs about their past to sell books right?) i did find someone with a name close to his (lower enlisted though) so the name doesnt sount AS made up, so it has a smidge more credibility than it did a few hours ago

I don't get it - if this is true, then why did the AF have to take the rap for not being there for the people that day, if they had a success against one of the aircraft and the hijackers on-board it?

[edit on 10-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

reply to post by Zaphod58

Answer your own question, we had more than an hours notice. Its not feasable that jets couldnt be scrambled above the pentagon and white house in more than an hour.

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by liamoohay
I remember clear as day on 9/11 an eyewitness on the news saying he saw a fighter shoot down an airplane (flight 93) this was merely an hour or so after it went down. After that I saw no more statements from witnesses being reported.

Not true, although there are two witnesses who thought it was shot down. One girl said it sounded as if it was shot down, and another vietnam vet said he knew he heard a missle. But no one claims to have seen a fighter shoot it down. And there are not claims of anyone seeing a fighter jet in the vicinity. If there was one many people would of heard or seen it. After all many people report that two other planes were indeed in the vicinity.

Do you realize how fast and hard to see and F-16 travelling at high speed would be, not to mention how easily it could get a lock on a target that big from many miles away, and fire and forget. You'd be lucky to even hear the jet. Let alone see it.

However, you may hear the missle, just before impact if you were close enough and had experience say in Vietnam!

The goventment made many errors, and withheld the truth from the public on 9-11 quite a number of times, and when you add them all together I believe it is enough to indite quite a few people.

Flight 93 was the worst, in my opinion, because Rumsfeld accidently told the truth. God bless old age.

Tower 7.

Your president Bold face lieing to you, saying they never envisioned commercial airliners being used as weapons, same thing repeated by Condy, now theres one that needs to be locked up in a hurry.

Not to mention we were running the exact wargames that day, that also Miraculously went live....Sound familiar? London Bombings. Same group behind it. Not Bush, not Blair. I'm talking men with 1000's of time more power than Bush and Blair.

As for the comeing election, sorry to say, you votes mean squat, especially since it's done via computer now. The men who actually run this world already know who has won.

Face it, we live in a declining democracy, that is heading straight toward Fascism, and then it will head toward something Akin to the 3rd Reich. Do you know how many counties in the US (I saw a map and was shocked), are populated majorily by Germans? The maps was broken don into states then counties. I don't have the link but hlf the US was light blue, the color code for Germans. Only NY and New Jersey were Majorly Italian. The rest were then there were some scattered "Native american counties, I guess those are reservations, THEN most shocking of all they had a color code for "American", and I didnt see but maybe one or two counties in thie odd shade of red/oringish, I'm a bit color blind so it was hard to tell.

I believe we are dealing with the same group who was behind the SS, now they are running the Show for US and the UK, and Germany also, dont forget. I wouldn't be suprised if this secret group laid yet another convient excerside that coincidentally go live, and blames it on the Soviets. If the US/UK/German, and other coalition folks went all out on Russia, what could Iran do to help them? squat. Then Iran has no protection, Neither does Asia.

Completely Global domination within a few years time. I don't believe in predictions or prophets, but I am going to make this prediction now. Just in case it does play out that way, I'll be famous, or more likely dead famous, hah.

A NEW World Order.....

A New World Order......

I say Down with the NWO, and the Buildiberg's, I truely believe it's a few major players from the largest banking cartels in cohoots with the ones holding the most oil(only thing keeping the head on their neck) and perhaps some psycho 5 star Generals, one from Each of the big 3 right now. Planning out every human beings future as we speak.

Implanted chips? note how the MM shows stories every night about children being taken and raped and slaughtered, I'm talking 6-10 year olds, they show these stories to put fear into you, so you will want your children chipped. Then the next generation will just be accustomed to the chip.

Soon there will be no paper money either, because people are becomeing wise that there is no longer gold reserves to back up this printed money. It will be as good as fire material when the crap hits the fan.

Really, don't be a lemming please. Stand up for your countries forefathers, and the ideals they represented. I am sure Lincoln, Jefferson and JFK , as well as Doctor King are turning in thier graves right now.

A real patriot questions his governemt, as it is supposed to be a government BY the people and FOR the people. Hasn't been that way since LBJ assasinated his way into office.

Billions and Billions and Billions of dollars unaccounted for. Going into black budget programs (yea thats a codename for all the concentration camps, along out of the way in wooded territorys, accessible by cargo trained to transpost human cattle.)

Or the money goes to other countries, because God knows everyone here in america is not in poverty, theres no one starving here, or homeless, LMAO.

It's all lies to make money dissapear for it to be used to furthing thier Agenda, which is a NEW World Order, One small Group running the entire world. Oh and if you think revolting in ten years from now will do anything, remember those chips you had implanted in your children to keep them safe from the newest fantasy serial killer on the news. When they have a mechanish that can pop an artery, or vein, and you'll die from internal bleeding, very ugly, in maybe 5 minutes time. Even seen the original Escape From New York. Well here we are.

The time is now, the longer we wait, the more advantage we have. I would suggest peaceful ppotests of course, always have someone filming from far enough away that his tape won't be confiscated, but close enough to see which side provokes the other.

Then when peaceful protests fail, well, f two decently prepared bank robbers can make a mess of L.A. and basically hold the entire town and thier police hostage. Imagine what 5-10 thousand, or how about 50 thousand people with the same gear. I believe it will be a win for the REAL patriots, and maybe fighting a revolution at home will cause them to pull resources out of Iraq.

I've said enough, I don't have anything in the works or even a single person who would be willing to do something like this with me as I have few friends. People are fairly fake, and when they drink, they disgust me.

But something needs to be organazized (Travis Bickell reference:p). I'm no leader, but I take orders well, and I am willing to die for my daughters future rights to live in a democracy, that is BY the people, and For the people.

reply to post by tide88

So IF he shot it down, that would prove there was no conspiracy, that the government infact did not crash planes into the pentagon and world trade center, right?

I'm just kinda lurking here, watching both sides as they play out...I don't believe I caught where if this Lt. Col admits that he did/did not shoot down 93 would confirm/deny the 911 inside job or not...please, if you have some insight, do tell...