Quantum Physics and the New Paradigm Shift

conscience changing reality huh?

Well, i suppose it happens the other way round constantly.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Some good quotes on the matter:

"For those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it." ~Niels Bohr

"The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be." ~Richard P. Feynman

"We have always had a great deal of difficulty understanding the world view that quantum mechanics represents. At least I do, because I'm an old enough man that I haven't got to the point that this stuff is obvious to me. Okay, I still get nervous with it.... You know how it always is, every new idea, it takes a generation or two until it becomes obvious that there's no real problem. I cannot define the real problem, therefore I suspect there's no real problem, but I'm not sure there's no real problem." ~Richard Feynman

cant stand when people bring up the double slit experiment as proof for conscience change reality; yes the double slit experiment is real but a conscious observer is not necessary to create reality. That double slit experiment is from a movie called what the bleep do we know made by new agers trying to push their agenda visit here skeptico.blogs.com...

"Unfortunately the theory of quantum mechanics does not say this. The film makers are confusing the theory of quantum mechanics with an interpretation of quantum mechanics. This is an explanation to help understand what might be going on, but it is not part of the theory because it is not falsifiable: it cannot be tested in such a way that, if it were false, it would fail the test (without falsifying the whole of quantum mechanics, and therefore all the other interpretations too)."

TOTAL BS. The double slit experiment existed even before you where born... It is a fundamental experiment of the wave theory which states a particle is also a wave. It was first used on light (something you can do at home too, google it) which proved light can behave as a wave.

WTB is an interesting movie, however everything in this world is baised, do not believe things instantly, just take in loads of information and draw your own colnclusions. have you even SEEN the movie?


[edit on 11/7/0808 by ChrisDeemian]

^so very sorry I worded my post wrong(I was the anonymous poster) yes the double slit experiment is a very real experiment (I think i said that t in my post) what I meant say was though that a conscious observer may not necessary to create reality if that were true I would try change reality right now as i see fit

heck visit my thread What The Bleep Are They On About

The part of the movie where they say an observer is necessary to create reality is untrue

("Quantum physics calculates only possibilities... Who/what chooses among these possibilities to bring the actual event of experience? Consciousness must be involved. The observer can’t be ignored." Amit Goswami (PhD) in What the Bleep Do We Know?

Atoms
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle argues that its impossible to track the momentum and position of a subatomic particle. Image: iStockphoto

Not exactly, Amit. The observer effect of quantum physics isn't about people or reality. It comes from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and it's about the limitations of trying to measure the position and momentum of subatomic particles. Gripping stuff, but nothing to do with our daily lives.)

What I can say though is you can change your perception on reality.

[edit on 11/7/08 by ADONIS]

[edit on 11/7/08 by ADONIS]

WTB is an interesting movie, however everything in this world is baised, do not believe things instantly, just take in loads of information and draw your own colnclusions. have you even SEEN the movie?

I agree. The world is biased. That's because everything in life is just theory. Our perceptions are not 100 percent accurate. Our psychological makeup colors how we perceive things. Our language colors how we perceive things. (Epistemology) The food we eat colors how we relate to the world. Our education (or lack of education) determines our outlook. Our peers and unbringing determine our mindset. Etc.

Knowledge is continually advancing. What was considered scientific law often becomes obsolete in light of new theory and new law. So it's good just to absorb and stay abreast of advancements in knowledge without all the quick judgments. You never know...



[edit on 11-7-2008 by Matrix1111]

^I know its so true the reality that we live in we will never know the real truth about it we will only have different perceptions about it.

First off, I believe we underestimate our ability to know. I think ultimate knowing takes more work, dedication, and pure faith than almost anyone is willing to give. People kind of always want to reassure their ego that it will be alright and able to function within the bounds of society when they come out the other side of an experience. I think a big part of coming into knowing of these concepts as more than just theories is learning to just let go. The ego is a big ol' bitch, and even when you think you're rid of it, there it is constricting your realm of thought because it was built to be afraid of its death, and it's pretty much an out-dated survival mechanism of the old paradigm in which it was necessary for humans to be competetive and decieving in order to survive.

In this day and age, with such massive networking and community living, sharing of information, cooperation of masses of people acting as ONE organism (we call it the world economy at this point, and I guess money can be seen as a good thing in a certain light... not for the future, but for the way it facilitated our growth as a globally communal species. A primitive stepping stone to one mindedness), this ego definitely gets in the way of our evolution.

Luckily, this isn't a static mechanism and can always be upgraded with something more accommodating to our progression. Even if you do not believe in Taoism and oneness and the quantum theories, a simple observation of how humanity is functioning at this point will show you where we are headed. This global community, facilitated by the global economy and especially by the birth of the internet, is a precursor to something else in the evolutionary chain. Technology is born from biology, and therefore, it IS biology in a way. It is conscious evolution, taking the unconscious natural process and speeding it up to lightspeed. Our biology has no choice but to (here's where it gets interesting) LEARN from our CONSCIOUS outward expression of our mind's evolution, and adapt to it. Anyone who is unbiased and logical at once can see where this next step will take us... and anyone who can truly with unfiltered thought analyze what is going on here will see that INDEED the consciousness IS determining reality, albeit on a collective scale... but you can see the evolution of consciousness in relation to reality here on a first-hand basis, if you step back and observe the wider angle view.

First, it was hyperdimensional or omnipresent consciousness that shaped the universes and dimensions, then it was universal consciousness that shaped the gas and dust into galaxies, galactic consciousness that shaped the stars, solar consciousness that shaped the solar systems, worldly consciousness that shaped the world, eco-centric consciousness that shaped the species that evolved in different ecosystems, racial consciousness that shaped the way a species adapted and split into more species, tribal consciousness that shaped the way communities of a certain species interacted with each other in relation to their environment, and now another fractal of that fractal has formed in the shape of individual consciousness shaping the function of the individual in relation to that environment, and in turn shaping the environment. Our outward evolution is just about complete, and the next step is to go inward and evolve the very consciousness we use to observe our reality. Instead of passively observing and only affecting (the effect of...) things based on outward cause, the only logical place to go is to actively observe and BE the cause. We once had to use our hands in order to interpret our consciousness into a tangible reality, but now we are evolving towards cutting out the middle man and affecting reality directly through conscious awareness of it. It's evolution, and anyone claiming to know where the limits of evolution are basically are living in a fantasy world... because limits are just not there. The only limits are where our individual perceptions end... and this is a choice.

I believe we've already evolved enough to the point where we can consciously affect reality by just being aware. We see evidence of this in the stories of Jesus, Moses, and other Biblical figures, the magi of the ancient and middle ages, the Yogis and Gurus of Eastern Traditions...some still around today (levitation is real and currently being performed in India by scientifically verified gurus, by the way), and other various ancient and lost gnosis. If there was no truth to it, these traditions would not have survived for thousands of years and inspired countless followers who devote their lives to these teachings. It has to be a life changing experience, and belief is just too hollow to be able to inspire such radical changes in perception and faith.

If you've ever had the God Mind experience, then you'll know that whatever perceptions you have could not possibly prepare you for the load of information downloaded through a God Mind experience. Awareness is completely separate from existence, and yet is is completely intertwined with it. Nothing in the cold socially accepted perception of "reality" can prepare you for this transcendental experience.

Again... faith is a knowing, and most people equate faith with belief. If you are just satisfied with belief, you may never know, and therefore you will never have any true faith nor wisdom. Like someone else said in so many words, paradoxes are only for those who limit themselves to a certain belief in what constitutes reality. If there is infinite possibility, then a paradox can always be worked out.

Perception is an active choice, not a static absolute.

This is why I KNOW that consciousness IS the basis of all reality. What would be the point of all these awe inspiring shapes, colors, and sensations, if it weren't for the sole purpose of observation and evolution of/by a consciousness.

Did any of what I just said make sense? It's a hard concept to constrict into word format. Apologies if this sounds convoluted.

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
That double slit experiment is from a movie called what the bleep do we know made by new agers trying to push their agenda visit here skeptico.blogs.com...

Thanks Anonymous. Funny critique and good info. I didn't know of Bleeps connection to the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. ...

I just wanted to point out the error of the poster you replied to, ol' Mr./Ms. Anonymous. The double slit experiment did NOT come from What the Bleep. It was USED in that film to make a point.

The experiment is one that has been done to death within the scientific community. What Bleep showed is exactly what science found to be true.

So don't disregard the slit experiment because some numbskull pops in to claim it was fabricated by New Agers.

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
yes the double slit experiment is real but a conscious observer is not necessary to create reality.

Well now. That depends on how one defines "consciousness," n'est pas?

If consciousness is the vibratory foundation of reality, with, say, a rock having an "expectation" of being Rock, but little else in the consciousness field, and so on, then reality is observing itself, thereby creating itself...

[shrug] Could be.

Everything has feelings. Even a rock. I talk to rocks, trees, animals all the time. They like me. On my regular walks in nature I've come to know deer "personally." I wave to them and they recognize me and don't run away. I've had the experience of when I didn't see them on one walk I mentally called out and asked where they were and within a minute they appeared on the road 50 yards ahead and stood there looking at me as if to say, "Here we are."

Native indians and the Japanese (Shinto) have similar connection to creation, so I'm not alone in my "craziness." Now there's scientific theory that explains how this is possible? I find it exciting.

[smile] My moniker is the Shinto Goddess of the Sun, and I am, in part, Native American. LOL! And no. You are not at all alone - though "craziness" is not the term I would use. Call it "understanding/awareness."

Ok, after reading the replies here, I am compelled to provide you all with this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Warning: This guy's presentation is a total of eight hours, but in it he describes the holofractiline nature of the Universe and its scale invariance. In layman's terms, and in an entertaining way. The whole of the presentation is not just his description, but how he pulls reality into it.

I am certain you will agree that it was time VERY well spent.

reply to post by ADONIS

In quantum mechanics, the EPR paradox is a thought experiment which challenged long-held ideas about the relation between the observed values of physical quantities and the values that can be accounted for by a physical theory
-Wikipedia

The EPR (Einstein, Podolsky, Rosen) experiment shows that measurments made on particles of a quantum system can have INSTANTANEOUS infleuence on one another. This challenges Heisenberg's principle on the basis that measurment of any kind, of any particle within the entangled system will inherently disturb the results.

Einstein concluded:

that a complete description of reality would have to predict the results of experiments from locally changing deterministic quantities, and therefore would have to include more information than the maximum possible allowed by the uncertainty principle.
-Wikipedia

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Ok, after reading the replies here, I am compelled to provide you all with this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cool. Thanks. I was just going to look for a good "YouTube" to watch. Now you've found it for me. Nice synergetic cooperation.

8 hours!!! Yikes!!!

[smile] My moniker is the Shinto Goddess of the Sun, and I am, in part, Native American. LOL! And no. You are not at all alone - though "craziness" is not the term I would use. Call it "understanding/awareness."

I love synchronicity. It confirms we're on the right path.

Originally posted by ADONIS
Not exactly, Amit. The observer effect of quantum physics isn't about people or reality. It comes from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and it's about the limitations of trying to measure the position and momentum of subatomic particles. Gripping stuff, but nothing to do with our daily lives.)

But why on earth would they call it the 'observer' effect, if it has nothing to do with an observer (ie people)?

From Wiki:

In science, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observing will make on the phenomenon being observed. For example, for us (ie people) to "see" an electron, a photon must first interact with it, and this interaction will change the path of that electron(ie reality)

Bold & notes in parenthesis are mine. So you see, whether you believe the observer effect to be true, this is what the observer effect actually means. It means by the act of observing, we interact with, and thus change, reality. This may be where you are coming unstuck:

The Heisenberg uncertainty principle is also frequently confused with the "observer effect". The uncertainty principle actually describes how precisely we may measure the position and momentum of a particle at the same time — if we increase the precision in measuring one quantity, we are forced to lose precision in measuring the other. Thus, the uncertainty principle deals with measurement, and not observation. The idea that the Uncertainty Principle is caused by disturbance (and hence by observation) is not considered to be valid by some, although it was extant in the early years of quantum mechanics, and is often repeated in popular treatments.

All quotes from: en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Very poetically written. I wanted to point out some things you've said for further discussion, but for some reason my quote option isn't working correctly. I'm not able to trim your quote. I like want you've said, especially your comment about the ego interferring with our true potential. So many good points. I'll have to try again another time. It may be just this computer. The one at work is no problem.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread... Yeah, levitation. I want that.

I want levitation, too. Most I ever got was to get a pen to roll a bit, and it felt like I was trying to move a 200 pound block of concrete with one hand. I'm working on it. I'm actually studying Christian mysticism, because the concepts in the Christian Kaballah pretty much confirm a lot of the other things I have experienced and researched in relation to those experiences.

I think the we are all one concept scares people also because they don't want to lose their sense of self or become like a hive mind or something, and it is my understanding that it doesn't work that way. You are yourself still, but you are aware of God and everything....

Oh and I want to comment on that big video presentation by nassim:

IT IS A MUST WATCH! Like Nassim said, "Oh my GAAD!!"

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I want levitation, too. Most I ever got was to get a pen to roll a bit, and it felt like I was trying to move a 200 pound block of concrete with one hand. I'm working on it. I'm actually studying Christian mysticism, because the concepts in the Christian Kaballah pretty much confirm a lot of the other things I have experienced and researched in relation to those experiences.

St. Teresa of Avila is said to have been seen levitating while in prayer. She has a great system of killing the ego and transforming oneself into a holy being. I think levitation must have something to do with being pure in mind and body and resonating with the cosmic current of God. A little background, since you're interested in Christian mysticism.
www.catholicfirst.com...

I think the we are all one concept scares people also because they don't want to lose their sense of self or become like a hive mind or something, and it is my understanding that it doesn't work that way. You are yourself still, but you are aware of God and everything....

True. People think they'll lose their identity of Self. But being one just means you've become intune with the natural order of the universe and allow the flow of Love to flow through you without Selfishness blocking its flow. Then you're one with the cosmic current of God and can tap into it's abundance of power and truth. A good trade off. What has selfishness brought us but pain and misery anyways?

Oh and I want to comment on that big video presentation by nassim:

IT IS A MUST WATCH! Like Nassim said, "Oh my GAAD!!"

I watched two hours and forty two minutes of it last night. I couldn't stop watching it but had no choice when I fell asleep. I'd never heard of him. It was indeed OMG! Everything he said resonated as truth. Having an affinity with Buckminster Fuller in my college days, it made perfect sense. I left off on the Crop Circle part. I see your avatar pic is one that Nassim was discussing. Cool!

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Matrix1111]

I have here in my hands a very large and heavy book on Quantum Mechanics. With this book I believe I can convince anyone that the world is not simply imagined, I have only to wack you in the head with it. It is exactly that aspec of our interface with the "Physical" which constitutes reality.

The mystery is not in "immateriality of the universe". The mystery is precisely in the materiality of the universe.

I do believe in the universe being instantiated by the consensus of belief of what that reality is. However the reality is. . . well . . it is quite real!

Tell a speeding train that it is just stardust and imagination and it will share with you it's vision of reality.

If there were not contingency in reality, it would be of no significance and we would disregard it as irrelevant.

The physical universe has not been suspened as a result of Quantum Mechanics. The basic human requirements and restraints remain in place.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by Cyberbian


Oh definitely I agree with you there... but the question is "What is real, really?" Haha it sounds like a funny question in its wording, but think about it.

I can agree with you no doubt that it is very something. So are thoughts. They both arrive out of seemingly nothing. Nothing is something still, though. It's just that nobody dare explain what in the something nothing is. I assume losing a job, credibility, funding, the respect of peers as being "sane"... has a lot to do with it.

Considering that we all don't have access to Large Hadron Colliders and other particle accelerators of our very own, and considering that almost all scientific funding in these such fields is either directly or indirectly supplied by government entities... I just don't trust any of that information. Quantum mechanics has major flaws, too. A lot of it is quite interesting, but a lot of it seems to be just compensating for something.

I think people who are serious about meditation come back with stories to tell of what they found out and it is hard to translate into words and so when it is put into words, it can lose something in the translation, but we can at least get some idea.
How would you describe something like fire if no one had ever seen it. It comes out of nowhere, could burn up the land, but is very useful and can be put out, in other words, completely disappear given the right treatment.