Overthrowing the United States Government

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
“Revolutions have never lightened the burden of tyranny: they have only shifted it to another shoulder”
George Bernard Shaw

“Revolution is a trivial shift in the emphasis of suffering.”
Tom Stoppard

“A revolution is interesting insofar as it avoids like the plague the plague it promised to heal”
Daniel Berrigan

Quotes are that, just quotes. Doesn't make anyone more justified than anyone else.

reply to post by Masisoar


well this.........

But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
~ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE


is not just a quote. this is one of the documents upon which this country was founded. notice not only the "it is their right" but more importantly "it is their duty." God, you gotta love these men and the wisdom they had when writing such articles.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Well let us see,
1. the first person to be murdered in US after 9-11 was a sikh guy delivering pizza, (though not officially a hindu, still gets classified under the same umbrella). It is the non muslim population in west that gets a raw deal when America gets angry with muslims.

2. Iraq and Bosnia was the most secular and non practicing Muslim majority nations before US interfered there. Turkey is not secular, majority of Turkish population is religious, it is just the old order in power that is fanatically anti-religion over there.

3. And then there is America's pet , ISI of pakistan and the patronage it gets from washington.

Look the list can go on. Bottom line is , American policies have never been to India's advantage.

However your attempt at provoking base feelings on religion is a cunning move. Unfortunately for you, India has seen Islamic rule for close to One thousand years. Unlike zionist jews , Hindus have lived under islamic rulers and understand that for every muslim who makes fun of non-muslim culture, there are nine other muslims who disagree with him. Perhaps your quest will be better served by radicalizing the nine muslims.

Cunning...bah, i'm just curius as to the hatred of America, Franly I agree whole heartedly with your opinion of American Interference... You almost never get "the other culture" correctly...

I hate the role of global policeman which we served... literally for allot of the world untila round 1992 first gulf war/colapse of the wall in Berlin

By and large we did not enter the roles in ww2 and beyond by personal choice, were there parties in America who liked the idea..surely but it's the sort of thing that's bound to turn on you.

The real situation is that most Anmericans don't like it, i'd love to see us quietltly slip ouf Nato, retreat to our hemisphere, we still have a dense position in Europe and there are plenty in Europe that until extremely recently wanted that some that still do, then there is Japan which would need to arm herself...

and, Once Bush and this administration is gone, how does a Country in our position retreat without leaving a power vaccum?
Pacticularly Isreal and Iran pose, a real major problem...

What I was addressing was if Manson is Hindu why such hatred of American culture, I find Hindus to be very capable of tolerance in America... (and ridiculous that guy with the pizzas) dumb asses anywhere... maybe not to share the culture but never have I seen outward protest of it

But back to the real issue... how do we get out of Iraq without Iran swallowing it whole and destroying Isreal?

Frankly and even as a Jew which I am, I will give one thing out here... it's not about what's right or what's wrong or who was there first... personally, If I was president of Isreal, I would move to disband the nation, the people are a gypsy nation, they defend it ferverently, they have been remarkably successful despite small numbers...

BUT, it's not worth it, the region is filled with religous zealotry, including among the Jews, this just is not going to work out... I would in all seriousness, advocate that the Jews should pack it up and emigrate to America with a paid stipend from the dissolution of governement and leave the continent entirely, between the US and Canada there is plenty fo room, we would benefit greatly from technology to scientists etc, etc... and the Jews would be genuinely and reasonably safe for ever literally, no one is land inavading us and we could withdraw from the region entirely and let it be a problem of over there...

there just aren't that many Jews, maybe 9 Million people... no one wants to give up their home but, this can only end badly, Jews are smart they should realize this...

It's not a strip of land worth fighting for, it just isn't it's a conflicted contested part of the world, always has been...

Mop, just because you are ignorant of the facts dose no mean its not true, the info and answers are there if you care to look. But if you want to spend your days being blind deaf and dumb thats your choise of course.

There was a similar thread like this about a year ago, barely anyone replied, negative comments, derailing. In short, no one really cared about it. Today I see quite alot of support. Hm...seems like people are beginning to wake up. Maybe there's some hope after all.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by CommanderSinclair]

When and where lets do this i want to see heads roll

In honesty it would be easier to start at the state levels and organize separation form the union in multiple stats. I don't think the government has the man power to stop it, if you have local police and militia working together to stop any incoming troops.

I've never been an activist, but this is the one cause I'd be willing to join.

It would be nice if people like Alex Jones, Jim Marrs, George Noory, Linda Howe, and whoever else has any clout to organize a march on Washington. Of course nothing would come of it but this would raise the concerns to the forefront and we could go from there.

Rich

Originally posted by Oouthere


It would be nice if people like Alex Jones, Jim Marrs, George Noory, Linda Howe, and whoever else has any clout to organize a march on Washington. Of course nothing would come of it but this would raise the concerns to the forefront and we could go from there.

Rich

this is an interesting thought. you are right, that nothing as far as the change we need would come about...... but making more ppl that feel this way and don't have access to sites such as this more aware they are not the only ones.

i like this idea a lot.

Civil War: The People versus the Government

I don't wanna give away all my thoughts, or incriminate myself, but heres some thoughts:

I've thought about this alot, and discussed it , debated it, with a friend. We debated guerrilla people's war versus the US government/loyalists/military. This is what we found.

The loyalists and rebels are irreconcilably mixed in their density of population regardless of location, in all locations, save the exceptions. This means you cannot bomb rebels without bombing loyalists. This is particularly true for the urban areas, but also suburban and regular sized towns and cities. People have neighbors, simply put. With the "keep to yourself" mentality already in place among the citizenry because of the fear of being labeled a terrorist or sympathizer, people do not know much about their neighbors, so how will the government have accurate information on this?

Another seeming fact is that the U.S. Military wouldn't whole heartedly go with the Government against the people. There would indeed be a split of forces, and resources, much like the Civil War. One side may start superior, and that may be the Government, but the people will not be helpless. They'd have the assistance of: Military defectors and the stockpiles/equipment they have taken and can maintain / use, Foreign agents who want to see the Government lose, and all of their financial support and equipment smuggling, the Mexican drug cartels, the racist, white-power, right-wing militant extremist groups, minority assistance groups, neighborhood militias of concerned citizens, gangs and some organized crime, etcetera. How many of your military friends will answer the question with a "yes" when you ask, "if there was marshal law instituted, and the people were having an uprising, and you were ordered to help put it down by firing on american citizens who, in their minds are trying to protect their homes, with paltry arms such as pistols, single shot rifles, and at best, semi-auto rifles, would you engage and kill them?" What if it was a neighborhood where that soldier had relatives or friends? Some are cold enough to comply, some aren't. There would be a split.

There'd also be a split along idealogical levels, in the officers and leaders. Some Generals do not agree or like each other, some are vying to take each other's commands right now, and allegiences run very strong in the military to your commander and officer. Some high ranking Generals would disagree, and whatever they commanded would go to one side or the other. This includes nuclear missle installations, ships at sea, ships docked, airplanes, ground forces, tank forces, artillery forces, intelligence forces, special forces. Again, one side may get more than the other, but the people would not be without any help at all.

The Cubans, Venezuelans, Mexican Cartels, and possibly Bolivians would covertly assist the southern resistance movements. Sympathetic Canadians would assist some northern resistance movements. The potentially sympathetic Canadian and Mexican military would assist with potential equipment and training, covert assistance.

On the battlefields, the rebels would play guerrilla, much like the Iraqi resistance forces, intermingling with the population, taking opportunistic strikes, knowing the land better, keeping secret caches, taking hostages, setting up ambushes. Or better yet, the Colombian FARC, a more military oriented organization, though in the decline. Every engagement, unless rebels were caught in the wilderness, would result in casualties of both loyalists and rebels, citizens and fighters.

The Government wouldn't have quite as much power as you may think. It really would be an extraordinarily interesting time from a strategic point of view for either side. Rebels have proven time and time again that they have undying longevity when operating under Guerrilla pretext.

[edit on 7/5/2008 by runetang]

reply to post by mopusvindictus

I don't really believe you honestly, because I have never met a Hindi in my life who was so out of peace with himself so preaching of hate.

lol, go to Rishikesh,Varanasi and other towns in India lol ,most people who are staunch hindus , who strongly despise the decadent american culture , offcourse there are foolish indians (who live in cities) who lov to emulate american culture ,

Your from India? What do you have the misfortune to have allot of Islamic neighbors? So your all up in arms about America?

I have news for you, you don't have to agree with the way the soon to be ex president handled this, but, it's not like Iran or Pakistan has any tolerence for Hinduism

yes Pakistan is intolerant towards Hinduism,Sikhism(and CIA has trained Pakistan with Islamic fundamentalists who harmed India and Soviet Union)

as for Iran they have no problems ,with indian religion ,despite being a theocracy , India-Iran have good relations

If your from India your religion is seriously despised by much of the middle east, I was sitting with several student from Iran and Pakistan respectively ( they didn't know i was jewish lol) and these were kids who were going home again... but also Americanized to the point where they drank and partied etc... and they just went off on Hindus, "they have so many g-ds" "they are so stupid" then they started doing the accent and laughing and acting all "cosmic'

in Pakistan,Saudi Arabia,Qatar yes hinduism is despised
but in Shia nations like Egypt ,Iran, former Iraq,UAE,Palestine,Syria and even communist/christian Russia they have respect for indian culture and they love the movies of Amitabh Bachhan , a famous hindu indian actor , who was born in Allahabad

It's not like your culture is respected by the people Bush went to war with...

and your country is also a Democracy

and, very few people in the States and that includes Bush have a problem with India in any way shape or form...

lol, seems americans forget , that on behalf of Pakistan in 1971 indo-pak war, USA stationed carrier Battle groups in the Bay of Bengal and threatened to attack and potentially nuke India ....
it was timely soviet intervention that saved India from jaws of USA (soviets sent Destroyer task force armed with nukes to Bay to Bengal , that american carrier fled like sissies from the Bay of Bengal )

and, very few people in the States and that includes Bush have a problem with India in any way shape or form...

But ,we Indians have problems with the kind of leadership the White house , particularly Reagan,Carter ,Nixon(along with their Saudi friends) because they funded islamic terror to destablise Soviet Union and India .... unlike the soviets we were lucky .....

Waht makes us so Evil... Frankly i'd put 10-1 odds that India/Pakistan will launch nukes one day before the US ever does... where does yor rhetoric come from

your foreign policies and decadent culture ... do a favour and keep these two things to your West , BJP(hindu nationalist) and CPI/CPI(communist marxist) parties and a large majority of middle class , does not want this decadent whorish culture spoon fed to their children , with the exception of stupid high society and noveau riche



as for Pakistan launching nukes , thats only possible if India launches a full scale invasion , which is not remotely possible in future

and your country is also a Democracy

yes , unlike USA , which is a corporate fascism/plutocracy , disguised as a democracy

reply to post by runetang



i love what you have said. i have thought much along the same lines. remember, fear is the biggest weapon that can be used to keep ppl sitting on the sidelines and remain quiet.

i know too many in the military that are aware and would NOT stand for an uprising against the civilians. all in the military are not brainwashed.

what those high up fear the most are for those below to realize what is their right and their duty........ so thus laws and flexing of muscles takes place.

whether there is a good chance or not for those of us who want what is right and inteded for this country should never be a concern. i would rather be on the side of truth and justice no matter how slim the chances are.

(though not officially a hindu, still gets classified under the same umbrella)

hindus and sikhs are pretty similiar , except that Sikhs believe in only one God , and have similiarity with hindu and muslims , yes sikhs wear turbans .

Couldnt you??? Put cds or videos in the tvs st every store you go to with 9-11 information.
if you work at those stores you could.
you could play radios loud as heck with alex jones.
graffiti every where 9-11 inside job
put signs up everywhere
call in to every radio show
go house to house distributing liturature
Put things up on every blog in the world
put it so much in peoles face a little light must turn on in there brain.... neuro pathway training.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by zeusadam]

It is about time that every soul that is living regain their common sense that has been intelligently designed to be brainwashed away and out of them.The gov't are power holders and are really no smarter than the average person except they have a position in control and only recruit the like.They will do anything,and I emphasize that with my life,to retain it.
I do not understand why people and citizens are filling and flocking to voting polls to hear a few elected people dramatize over how they will do this,change that,and eveything remains the same.These voting events are to test humans intelligence and to see how they've evolve,then implement plans & laws against them.I give an example,why does everybody have to pay for energy when energy is free and all around us.we do not need wires are optics to running to houses.Someone or People is sitting at the top over all this and know the average person do not have an scientific understanding of how energy works,and do not want to share the secret with the human population..Something is very wrong there and people have not realized it yet.We could very easily get to the bottom of the so-called fake energy crisis by having a worldwide event of all paying citizens to boycott their energy bills but have certain places set up with energy for a community,that could be run out certain warehouses or homes for people to use until the gov't see that this is a standoff.I will bet 10 of my lifetimes,this will be a revolution that will go down in history of histories! The governments will be overthrown very quickly! The Internet can be used to accomplish this.We should abrubtly denounce this type of control.People could also get organized with their Cable Bills and this can just take place in 1 major city or town by getting a majority percentage of Cable customers to not pay their bill and demand and negotiate reduced prices and commit to not paying for 6 months are as long as it takes until the demand is make.This will hurt the money pool for a big corporation somewhere.This type of standoff will change things quickly! I know may others as you all do but the feat can be accomplished..anyone else that want to add please do.. We should be master over our own lives not by a handfull of selfish,programmed idiots that see grown people as little children needing guidance...

reply to post by zeusadam


No.

I have a friend that at first question would allow me to place my 9/11 fliers in his store. But after longer thought, it proved to not be worth the risk to his store or home. I have already been told by my supervisor's supervisor not to discuss this with him again. When you bring this information forward, it attacks their comfort zone in an extreme way, sometimes to the point of a person becoming belligerent. For me, I could not eat, sleep or do my job correctly resulting in my taking two days of vacation to get over the initial shock of understanding.

There is no way a DVD is going to be playing at Wal-mart decrying what our government has done.

Rich

If ya don't like our country, try China or Cuba, if they'll have you.

This country has it's issues, but it is still "MY" country and I love it. And it is still the BEST in the world.

Leave.. no one is forcing you to stay.. that's what's great about my country ..

So go, and make this an even greater country and democracy.

Originally posted by ArcAngel


So go, and make this an even greater country and democracy.

you mean constitutional republic, right? because that is what we are intended to be. i will keep correcting everyone on here that labels us a democracy. as someone else said, yes, constitutional republic falls under democracy, but so does social democracy, Parliamentary democracy, and Totalitarian democracy and on and on.

constitutional republic is a form of democracy, but democracy in and of itself is not what we are and to believe such will set us up for many other dangerous systems they could and already are imposing on us.

you say this is "my country" and yet you fail to know what makes it or at least what was intended to make it so great.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 5-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by ArcAngel

This country has it's issues, but it is still "MY" country and I love it.

Actually, it's my country. I am descended from the first Dutch settlers in the 1600's, and the founding fathers of the Revolution. And I say what we have today is a blasphemous parody of what this nation was intended to be.

And it is still the BEST in the world.

Oh, blind patriotism I see. Tell me, is it better to die by drowning or firing squad?

Originally posted by annestacey

Originally posted by pai mei
If the plane is in trouble, you don't shoot the pilot*, you grab a parachute and jump.

That's a good statement. I haven't read this entire thread, but I would think if there are enough people who don't like how things are going, they should make a solid plan to leave the country and go start over somewhere else. There are lots of people leaving the U.S. (especially retirees) who can live much cheaper elsewhere.

I just talked to a girl at the dog park last week who went to visit her fiancee's father in Mexico. They live very well and take care of a family of four for about $200 a month. She loved it and wants to relocate there herself.

Now if the government decides to stop people from leaving the country... then you have a real problem on your hands.

I m not saying to leave your country. First to start a revolution you need to know what you want.
I want to live somewhere in a small village with everything produced locally, no money, no "economic growth". Some modern technology and science yes, using them like today, or destroying the earth for comfort no.

See this : www.storyofstuff.com...

Maybe you like the world just as it is, so you can't just "jump from the airplane". The airplane is the modern consumer society, and you will not escape from it no matter in what country you move. So if you just want to replace the pilot, and hope "Everything will change" good luck with that

In my view he is not even in charge, corporations and banks run everything

[edit on 5-7-2008 by pai mei]