Cops pay 3 a.m. visit to tell man his door is unlocked

Originally posted by slackerwire
Homeowner should have shot the cops.

They broke numerous laws by entering his house.

Ah… The Internet lawyer strikes again…
The police have the right to enter a residence at will if they have probable cause to believe that a crime is in process or has been committed in the residence. Leaving the garage open, the keys in the car, and the front door ajar, is a reason for probable cause. If I had personally been one of those officers the first thing that would have entered my mind was that someone was jumped in the garage coming home, and dragged into the house. The officers obviously had permission from the children to enter the upstairs to talk with their parents when the children refused to go wake them.

So go ahead and try and enforce your own version of the law, and see how fast you end up behind bars.

[edit on 6/21/2008 by defcon5]

I guess one thing I should have stated as well is that hear in Lakeville, there is a teenage thing called "Garage Shopping", breaking in at night to unlocked / open garage doors, stealing beer, electronics, anything of value. So I can see why the cops did what they did. Kind of off topic, but I did get into an aguement with an off duty Lakeville PD for speeding on our street . I was kind of proud that in the end, I won

reply to post by defcon5


Please read my post before this one. Are you living in the real world? They first would have pounded hard on the door and yell police dept. did you not read the article? The kids refused to wake the adults they knew there were not any perps in the house from the information they received from kids.

No cop is that stupid to enter a bedroom door at 3:00 am to see if everything is ok. This situation could have went south in a thousand different ways. Family dog, family gun, unknown occupants and how many and where.

No way

They would have tried a different method of contact first.



Edited for clarity...

Its late...

[edit on 21-6-2008 by LoneGunMan]

reply to post by jerico65


So you would be ok with me walking in to your bedroom at night shining a flashlight in your face and telling you oh I'm just here to let you know you left your door open have a nice day?

not mention there are so many bad cops now days,i wouldnt blame someone for shooting a cop in that situation,but on the other hand doors were unlocked and kids were in the house......not too bright from either perspective really

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Sorry LG, but you are still incorrect.

An exigent circumstance, in the American law of criminal procedure, allows law enforcement to enter a structure without a warrant, or if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal under certain circumstances. It must be a situation where people are in imminent danger, evidence faces imminent destruction or a suspect will escape.
Generally, an emergency, a pressing necessity, or a set of circumstances requiring immediate attention or swift action. In the criminal procedure context, exigent circumstances means:
An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials.

In this case, the officers had reasonable suspicion, and/or probable cause, to enter the residence when they discovered the garage, the car, the front door, and no one answering when they knocked on the door. Would the above circumstances lead a reasonable person to believe that the owner was in someway incapable of answering the door, or was in imminent danger? The answer a court of law is going to give to that question is, Yes!

Defcon wouldn't it have made more sense for the cop to do this at a normal time? Why would they choose 3am? Maybe because of the fact that most police officers are cowards and they know the people would be sleeping thus there is less of a chance that they would have pulled a gun on the cop.

reply to post by CPYKOmega


Nope, its because of the time of night that they most likely did it.
To someone entering the scene it would appear that something had happened to the owner to leaving things in that state. If your neighbor left his garage and house open at 3 am, and there was no response when you knocked on the door, wouldn’t you think that maybe someone had robbed or attacked him? Besides the fact that leaving things in this fashion presented an immediate threat to their personal property. You could try and fight this in court, but I doubt you would win it. Most people would agree that the situation presented a reasonable suspicion/probable cause, based on the information the officers had, once they understand how those two laws work. Maybe I understand it better then others might, because an acquaintance of mine was involved in a similar incident. This person came home to find the garage and front door to their house was open, and proceeded inside to find member of their family had been attacked and killed.

Originally posted by ironman433
i personally would force the issue of illegal search and have them not only removed from the force but charged with the crime of trespassing and b&e . they had no way of knowing about any children being in the home unless they were trespassing .

the article says,
[qoute]
A police spokesman says the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks went unanswered, and they wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.

He says the kids inside -- Molde's two sons and two nephews -- were afraid to wake their dad, so the officers went upstairs


So they knocked the boys answered said to afraid to wake the dad.

Having found a 2 year old wandering the street after a door was left open at 6am in the morning, I can see why the police would go a check with the adult to find out if the kids were all there and no harm was coming to anyone.

They didn't search, they didn't arrest anyone, they just made sure the household was safe. Perhaps you all would have perferred the cops do nothing until the bodies are found.

Remind everyone not to help any of you next time you have a personal crisis.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Good thing that the cops did not call SWAT team to close this guy's door.
If police came to my house and asked me to keep my door close i ,well i will not shoot them, but personally i will be very very displeased.
This is just creating fear in my opinion. If person lives in high-crime area he will not leave his door open. And if he lives in peaceful neighborhood - this is not police business to check for open doors - it will be best for all if they divert more workforce to crime areas instead.

Fully quoted as I am TOTALLY backing what you stated.
AMEN
AMEN
AMEN to what you have said.

They should very well be spending time in CRIME AREAS instead of going sneaking around trying door knobs of homes, and ENTERING uninvited & scaring the peace loving people and attempting to get them to join in on the
"BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID" crowd........
.....we have enough frightened people as it is............

BIG BROTHER is just trying HARD to perpetuate this fear.
This is just BIG BROTHER working as hard as they can to fight the people who want to be NOT afraid and live in peace and HARMONY amongst mankind.



[edit on 22-6-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by raven bombshell
The homeowner was asking for a home invasion just leaving his door unlocked and the garage open for anyone to creep in a steal those kids or kill and rape the whole household.

Originally posted by lw2525
The homeowner should be slapped for being such an idiot.
Leaving doors open with children having a sleep over? That's idiocy
on a grand scale.

Now a man leaves his garage door open and he was asking for a home invasion?

To top that off you claim he's a criminal for leaving his garage open!

Absolutely ludicrous!:

Using both your analogies women who dress trashy deserved to be raped too I suppose, huh?

First of all most of us don't know the neighborhood do we?

I must be a criminal too, because I've left my garage door open twice this year already. Just happens sometimes, because of revolving schedules and sometimes we get sidetracked.

If they were so concerned they could have pounded on the door, until someone responded. Entering someones house without any real indication of a problem is way over the top.

Anyone remember the movie Unlawful Entry ? Where the cop comes in the couples house in the middle of the night often to make sure they are alright. Yeah right!

Only thing worse than a peeping tom is one who uses the law for cover to get away with it - me thinks.

For all we know these cops were the predators themselves looking to mess with the kids, or stalking someone in the home.

This behavior by any public servants is unacceptable and an outright invasion of privacy.

It's bad enough they criminalize people who warm their cars up when it is freezing out by writing them tickets because their car could be stolen - even those who have locked the doors. Good morning honey my car wasn't stolen, but I have a $200 ticket before I left the driveway, guess we won't be celebrating our anniversary out this weekend thanks to the friendly neighborhood criminals protecting us so well.

Now some of you people are backing the pigs wanting to criminalize people for leaving their doors open.



[edit on 22-6-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by defcon5

The police have the right to enter a residence at will if they have probable cause to believe that a crime is in process or has been committed in the residence. Leaving the garage open, the keys in the car, and the front door ajar, is a reason for probable cause.

BS. The only probably cause is for the home owner to shoot the intruders for unlawful entry.

If I was on the jury of the home owner and the cops got shot I would vote for acquittal.


[edit on 22-6-2008 by verylowfrequency]

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar

Sorry but if this guy had the keys to his garage open, keys in the car ignition and door open (with little kids in the house) why aren't we talking about his lack of common sense to lock the door, close the garage and take the keys out of the car.

Sure cops aren't supposed to just walk into your house... but I think if a cop saw all that and didn't do anything and we read the next day about a guy and 4 little kids getting brutally murdered and that cops could have stopped it... the cops would be blamed hardcore.

The reason the cops went into the house (and not call and possibly not lock) is because that looked pretty suspicious. If you were a cop and saw all that you would probably think something suspicious about it... garage door open, keys in car, front door slightly open, tv on... too many indicators that something wasn't right.

The cops knocked on the door and nobody answered (with the TV on and door halfway open they probably suspected at least somebody to be up, if everything was ok) so they went in. They first found two kids who said everything was ok and they told the cops they could wake up their dad. This guy should be glad his dumb self didn't get him and the other kids in the house kidnapped, robbed or murdered... because I'd much rather have 2 cops wake me up than a "gangsta" with a gun pointed at my head telling me not to make a sound. Of course, I'm not stupid enough to leave my garage door and front door open... as well as having keys in my ignition in my car.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
BS.

I suggest you go back up and read what the law actually says.
Nothing BS about what I posted, unlike the hate of law enforcement, and opinion that I see in your post. Why don’t you prove me wrong using something like logic and actual law?
Post me a link to show that I am incorrect?

First they want to blockade the roads to make sure you have your papers, now they want to snoop in your garage and bedroom.

Next you people are gonna want cops look in the windows to make sure everyone is sleeping and accounted for and nobody's getting raped or hurt.

Maybe they should also inspect your butts to make sure you wiped and are not hiding contraband or carrying disease.

I can't believe there's people here that actually think its okay for complete strangers to walk through peoples homes unannounced at 3AM. Oh, but it's okay because everyone the government hires is trustworthy. Yeah right.

I think I woke up in the wrong universe or it's time for a culling revolution.

Keep your goddamn snouts out of other peoples private property or private business unless they request your service or there is an obvious crime occurring.

reply to post by defcon5


I don't need to post a link. The constitution was written to prevent such abuses if that doesn't hold up then, I only know what my rights are as a human being and I would happily kill any perps who don't respect those rights. Nobody comes in with out requesting and receiving a response, an invite or a warrant.

It's okay for the cops to be concerned that a door was left open, but it is not their responsibility to check everyones door unless they have a written contract to do so.

An open Garage or even open door is not a sign of distress it is a sign of forgetting, Alzheimer's, or stupidity that happens all the time in my neighborhood and is not a crime or a sign a crime has occurred.

While I wouldn't mind a phone call or a bang on the door or window even, a stranger walking down my hallway is grounds for a killing if I just woke up or grounds for firing at the very least - in my personal opinion. I'm not here to argue law if you want to that's fine I don't have a law degree.

reply to post by verylowfrequency


Well there is the way that you think things should be, and then there is the way things are…

The law has been that way for a long time before 911, the patriot act, or any of the terrorism stuff ever happened. Probable Cause is even mentioned in the 4th Amendment of the Constitution about search and seizures. So it dates back just a little way, to like when they wrote the Constitution…

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
I don't need to post a link. The constitution was written to prevent such abuses if that doesn't hold up then

It helps if you actually read the constitution, rather then just spewing off like you know what it says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Originally posted by defcon5

It helps if you actually read the constitution, rather then just spewing off like you know what it says:

Again I know what the constitution says - thank you. I also know why it was written - because of people like you who need to be reminded what our god given rights to privacy are, as human beings, so we don't have to begin slaughtering one another again because you stepped on my rights.

Again - the constitution was written to protect me the private citizen from the pigs who sought to trample our rights in the past and are once again attempting to do the same.

Originally posted by defcon5

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Ever heard of a SEARCH WARRANT -

An official order authorizing a search of someone's home or other location. The controlling principles governing search warrants are generally provided by the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment.

The procedure for obtaining a search warrant involves an ex parte presentation to the magistrate of an affidavit by the law enforcement officer seeking the warrant and requesting the magistrate to issue the warrant based on "'the probability, and not a prima facie showing, of criminal activity . . . .' " Illinois v. Gates (1983) 462 U.S. 213, 235; People v. Von Villas (1992) 11 Cal.App.4th 175, 217 "To establish probable cause, one must show a probability of criminal activity; a prima facie showing is not required."

"knock and announce" requirement of 18 U.S.C. section 3109

There was no drugs or blood on the garage floor that was visible from the outside of the property. Where is the probable cause? There isn't any to a normal human being. I've established that many people leave there garages open and that is no indication of a crime. The keys in the ignition does not indicate a crime. Why did they enter the garage? Because it was open - oh yeah that show proabable cause that a crime has occured

[edit on 22-6-2008 by verylowfrequency]