CHALLENGE: Find 2+ pieces of United Airline debris at Shanksville

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
5- Many people in Pennsylvania saw the Boeing 757, traveling at low altitude and high speed, roll to the right and plummet upside-down, nose first, towards the ground.

If this is what you claim to be true, then you won't mind linking to where a witness was able to positively identify the alleged plane in the air, as you claim?

Amongst all of your replies, you have side-stepped showing me where a single witness was able to look up in the sky and say "Hey, that's flight UA93 crashing..."

Why haven't you done that yet, ThroatYogurt?

reply to post by tezzajw


Strawman and you know it. Who is doing the side stepping here? As usual you ignore the obvious. You dismiss EVERYTHING as my previous post shows.

Do you have any evidence to support your theory of what happened to flight 93?

dbl post sorry


[edit on 25-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

reply to post by im_being_censored


Does this help?


Thanks,

:TY:

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

Does it help? Well what airlines does that piece come from? If there are no signs on it that you can tell what airlines it came from, then if doesn't help at all.

Also, where was that piece found? Provide evidence please.

Originally posted by im_being_censored
Provide evidence please.

Not just evidence. Chain of custody records and all documentation etc. I'm sick of them (skeptics...debunkers....whatever they want to call themselves today) saying we need to "prove" anything before they even give one ounce of "proof".

I wonder what ever did happen to the 911 call that was taken by the man in the bathroom of flight 93, that Edie Magnus refers on her interview with Brokaw. Could the reason this has vanished be that the reports of the man in the bathroom have him saying that there was already smoke in the plane. Maybe this phone call took place between 10:03 and 10:06.

On another note...Wasnt a mans rib found among the debris at Indian Head lake? Are we supposed to believe a piece of rib bone from a human floated 8 miles. Also, The in that article states he saw the fiery explosion and that the wind was blowing very hard and that a few moments later confetti like debris rained down on the lake. Is it really possible to see a plane crash eight miles away, it made me wonder if he might have witnessed another explosion that he thought was the plane impacting the quicksand like earth.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Do you have any evidence to support your theory of what happened to flight 93?

I don't have a theory about Flight 93, so why do I need evidence to support it?

You've obviously got a theory that Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, but when I constantly ask you to supply evidence - you can't.

Remember, this is your claim:

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
What happened to the plane? Many witnesses saw it crash. Many saw the fireball. No one is witness to a sidewinder strike.

How do those alleged witnesses know that the plane they allegedly saw crashing was the alleged plane that was allegedly designated Flight UA93?

Without being able to prove that statement (you've not supplied any links), you're better off retracting it, as it's merely your speculation.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by tezzajw]

reply to post by tezzajw


Tezz,

Forgive me if I put you in a category in which you do not belong. ie: no planer, missile shot it down... etc.

Let me ask you. After looking at all the evidence, listening to eyewitness statements, etc. What do you think happened to 93 and/or the event that took place at Shanksville.

Certainly you must have at least an opinion as to what happend.

Thank you,

:TY:

[edit on 26-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Without being able to prove that statement (you've not supplied any links), you're better off retracting it, as it's merely your speculation.

We can ALL agree it would be very unlikely to see a plane crash and know what the flight number is.

Here are some "alleged" eye witness statements, etc.

You will tezz, choose to dismiss them like all the other evidence.

Here are some links:

Bob Blair was completing a routine drive to Shade Creek just after 10 a.m. Tuesday, when he saw a huge silver plane fly past him just above the treetops and crash into the woods along Lambertsville Road.

Blair, of Stoystown, a driver with Jim Barron Trucking of Somerset, was traveling in a coal truck along with Doug Miller of Somerset, when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground and then explode on the outskirts of Lambertsville.

“I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair.

/guct4

"It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets. You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side. There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud."

/m347n

Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.

Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.

"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning.

/fa75e

The ensuing firestorm lasted five or 10 minutes and reached several hundred yards into the sky, said Joe Wilt, 63, who also lives a quarter-mile from the crash site. "Jetliner Was Diverted Toward Washington Before Crash in Pa."

The Washington Post September 12, 2001

"I just watched with my mouth open as this yellow mushroom cloud rose up just like an atomic bomb over the hill where I like to go hunting," said 72- year-old John Walsh

Barefoot and in his bathrobe, he drove up the dirt road to rescue anyone he could find. There would be nothing he could do.

Debris, including photographs and other papers that survived the fireball, was strewn over a wide area. Residents have spent days collecting it.

/oapxx

"When the plane hit, it sounded like something just fell on the roof. Everybody sort of panicked," she said. "I went to the window and saw all this smoke coming up and I just pointed and screamed."

-/oapxx

Charles Sturtz, 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters.

/rl5qc

Tim Lensbouer, 300 yards away: "I heard it for 10 or 15 seconds and it sounded like it was going full bore."

[Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/12/01]

Rob Kimmel, several miles from the crash site: He sees it fly overhead, banking hard to the right. It is 200 feet or less off the ground as it crests a hill to the southeast. "I saw the top of the plane, not the bottom."

[Among the Heroes, by Jere Longman, p. 210-211]

Tom Fritz, about a quarter-mile from the crash site: He hears a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looks up in the sky. "It dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," going "so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was."

[St. Petersburg Times, 9/12/01]

Terry Butler "It dropped out of the clouds." The plane rose slightly, trying to gain altitude, then "it just went flip to the right and then straight down."

[Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/12/01]

Terry Butler: He sees the plane come out of the clouds, low to the ground. "It was moving like you wouldn't believe. Next thing I knew it makes a heck of a sharp, right-hand turn." It banks to the right and appears to be trying to climb to clear one of the ridges, but it continues to turn to the right and then veers behind a ridge. About a second later it crashes.

[St. Petersburg Times, 9/12/01]

Lee Purbaugh, 300 yards away: "There was an incredibly loud rumbling sound and there it was, right there, right above my head – maybe 50 feet up.... I saw it rock from side to side then, suddenly, it dipped and dived, nose first, with a huge explosion, into the ground. I knew immediately that no one could possibly have survived."

[Independent, 8/13/02]

Linda Shepley: She hears a loud bang and sees the plane bank to the side. [ABC News, 9/11/01] She sees the plane wobbling right and left, at a low altitude of roughly 2,500 feet, when suddenly the right wing dips straight down, and the plane plunges into the earth.

[Philadelphia Daily News, 11/15/01]

Kelly Leverknight in Stony Creek Township of Shanksville: "There was no smoke, it just went straight down. I saw the belly of the plane." It sounds like it is flying low, and it's heading east.

[Daily American, 9/12/01, St. Petersburg Times, 9/12/01]

A witness told WTAE-TV's Paul Van Osdol that she saw the plane overhead. It made a high-pitched, screeching sound. The plane then made a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashed.

newsandviews.tripod.com...

Tim Thornsberg, working in a nearby strip mine: "It came in low over the trees and started wobbling. Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees."

[WPIX Channel 11, 9/13/01]






[edit on 26-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

I would like to apologize to all the people who think Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville for making this challenge too hard.

I wonder what ever did happen to the 911 call that was taken by the man in the bathroom of flight 93, that Edie Magnus refers on her interview with Brokaw. Could the reason this has vanished be that the reports of the man in the bathroom have him saying that there was already smoke in the plane

Ah yes the phone call from Mr. Felt....

The only problem is, that he did not mention smoke on the airliner. The story originated from a supervisor in the call center.

The person who actually took the call said this...

The morning of Sept. 11, Shaw was taking a break and walking across the room toward a TV when a phone rang and he picked it up. There was a man on the other end

I wonder what ever did happen to the 911 call that was taken by the man in the bathroom of flight 93, that Edie Magnus refers on her interview with Brokaw. Could the reason this has vanished be that the reports of the man in the bathroom have him saying that there was already smoke in the plane

Ah yes the phone call from Mr. Felt....

The only problem is, that he did not mention smoke on the airliner. The story originated from a supervisor in the call center.

The person who actually took the call said this...

The morning of Sept. 11, Shaw was taking a break and walking across the room toward a TV when a phone rang and he picked it up. There was a man on the other end

I wonder what ever did happen to the 911 call that was taken by the man in the bathroom of flight 93, that Edie Magnus refers on her interview with Brokaw. Could the reason this has vanished be that the reports of the man in the bathroom have him saying that there was already smoke in the plane

Ah yes the phone call from Mr. Felt....

The only problem is, that he did not mention smoke on the airliner. The story originated from a supervisor in the call center.

The person who actually took the call said this...

The morning of Sept. 11, Shaw was taking a break and walking across the room toward a TV when a phone rang and he picked it up. There was a man on the other end. "He told me he locked himself in the bathroom ... his plane had been hijacked," Shaw said. "He was crying, frightened, scared, anxious," Shaw said. "There was absolutely no doubt" that he was telling the truth about the hijacking.

www.post-gazette.com...

Then there is Mr. Felt's brother, who was allowed to hear the tape of the actual call his brother made...

But in a phone interview, Felt's younger brother Gordon, who was played the 911 tape by the FBI when he went to hear the cockpit recordings in a special event for the victims' families, said, "There was no mention of white smoke or an explosion." Also, the dispatcher who took the call, John Shaw, confirmed that Felt had mentioned neither bomb nor white smoke. "It never happened," he stated".

Skeptics, please do not derail this thread.

This thread is a challenge to present at least 2 pieces of debris that is obvious it came from a United Airlines plane. I already helped by giving you one piece of United Airlines debris, so it shouldn't be too hard to post at least one more.

Let's take a closer look at these witness statements, ThroatYogurt.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
"when he saw a huge silver plane fly past him"
"so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was."

These witnesses can't agree what the colour the alleged plane was? Hmmm, not very convincing evidence so far. I could have sworn that United Airlines used some blue and red in their paint scheme, other than just silver?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
"You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side."
"I saw the top of the plane, not the bottom."
"I saw the belly of the plane"

Which way was the plane flying? It's hard to tell with all of these witnesses contraditing each other?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
"when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground"
"banking hard to the right"
"It dropped all of a sudden, like a stone"
"it just went flip to the right and then straight down"
"but it continues to turn to the right and then veers behind a ridge"
"I saw it rock from side to side then, suddenly, it dipped and dived, nose first"
"She sees the plane wobbling right and left, at a low altitude of roughly 2,500 feet, when suddenly the right wing dips straight down,"
"it just went straight down"
"The plane then made a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashed."
"Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees"

Wow, can we digest all of that?

Was the plane spiraling, wobbling, diving, banking, turning, diving or going straight down? It's almost impossible to tell, given the wide range of witness responses.

(Off topic, if you know anything about Iron Maiden, then it reminds me of the song Aces High: Rolling, Turning, Diving...)

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
"crash into the woods"
"with a huge explosion, into the ground"
"and the plane plunges into the earth"
"and did a nose dive over the trees."

Did it crash into the trees, woods or ground? It's hard to verify according to those witness statements.

Also, please note that six of those witnesses did not see a plane. Hearing an explosion or watching a fireball is not the same as seeing a plane.

Now, please direct me to the witness statement that says something like: "I looked up in the sky and I knew that it was United Airlines, Flight 93 that was crashing before me."

I'm yet to see that witness statement, which you claim exists, as you typed this:

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
What happened to the plane? Many witnesses saw it crash

Please, ThroatYogurt, you'll have to try a lot harder to convince me that any of those witnesses were able to identify the alleged plane as Flight UA93. I'm not going to take your word for it.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

Many of the residents in Shanksville, including the mayor, believe UA 93 was shot down.

Could you provide a source stating that the mayor believes Flight 93 was shot down?

Sorry, I missed your post:

FBI is silent, fueling "shot down" rumors

Philadelphia Daily News
November 18, 2001
By WILLIAM BUNCH 
[email protected]

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. - Ernie Stuhl is the mayor of this tiny farming borough that was so brutally placed on America's psychic map on the morning of Sept. 11, when United Airlines Flight 93 slammed nose-down into the edge of a barren strip-mine moonscape a couple of miles outside of town.

A 77-year-old World War II veteran and retired Dodge dealer, he's certainly no conspiracy theorist.

And, when you ask Stuhl for his theory of what caused the jetliner to crash that morning, he will give you the prevailing theory - that a cockpit battle between the hijackers and burly, heroic passengers somehow caused the Boeing 757 to spiral out of control. "There's no doubt in my mind that they did put it down before it got to Washington and caused more damage," he said.

But press the mayor for details, and he will add something surprising.

"I know of two people - I will not mention names - that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close."

If the mayor of Shanksville still seems conflicted about what caused the crash of Flight 93 two months ago, he is hardly alone. As the initial shock of Sept. 11 wears off, the crash some 80 miles east of Pittsburgh, and what caused it, is beginning to emerge as the greatest mystery from the worst terrorist attack in American history...

web.archive.org...:/dailynews.philly.com/content/daily_news/2001/11/18/local/SHOT15C.htm (from Wayback Machine archives.)

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by im_being_censored

 

Does this help?

Thanks,

:TY:

So you are showing me a unburnt piece of a plane that in your words 'vapourized' and yet this part survived. No landing gear no seats, nothing.

Where was that picute taken ?(sources)
When was that picture taken?
When was that picture released?
Who says that a boeiing 757 crashed there?

Hi capatin obvious. I see you are using new handles... wow debunkers are losing so bad they have to create new accounts to support thier illogical form of reality.

Originally posted by Boone 870
- Says who?

- If one were to find another piece of plane debris from a United Airlines plane, would you believe that flight 93 crashed in Shanksville or would you rechallenge me to find at least one more piece?

The odds.

Well let's see what you got. If you have one, why have you not posted it yet to win the current challenge?

reply to post by im_being_censored

BULL.THE PLANE PART DOESN'T HAVE ANY CHARDNESS ABOUT IT.THAT PIECE WAS A THROW DOWN.FOR THOSE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THROW DOWN MEANS,IT'S PLANTED EVIDENCE TO SCREW UP INVESTIGATIONS.