We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by Disney

Please do not forget that evolution is a theory. Theory made by scientists, who fail to see "how else could it be".

Try to stay on topic, do.

The Faith, Spirituality & Theology forum is that way >>> if you're interested.

reply to post by Cadbury


In addition to what you said (good post!) there are olympic athletes and such who are purely vegetarian too. People seem to selectively pick what information they take in on this issue though, so proof of health will probably do little to sway some on this board (or in real life).

I mean, how many people have actually met somebody in real life with a deficiency due to a vegetarian lifestyle? I mean a medically cetifiable one too, not just some percieved weakness on the part of the observer?

I've never met one, even before I was a vegetarian (which was the majority of my life, 20+ years!). In addition to that there is all this information praising the health benefits of it, but people just can't get that 'sickly' image out of their heads.

Feels like programming to me. Thankyou meat product marketers. =_=

Here's some links for nobody to bother reading before they post "Lol I like killing yummy animalz lul".

almostvegetarian.blogspot.com...

(Vegetarian Athlete List - I don't know if there's more or not).

www.dailyprincetonian.com...

(Just one quick article on athletes giving up meat and the health benefits finally being recognised and quantified...).

[edit on 16/6/08 by Duality]

How about the things that make us meat eaters... all meet eaters have stereoscopic vision. For us to really utilize grains and grass, we would need multiple stomachs.

There are plenty of other things that escape me now though.

Originally posted by Duality
reply to post by Cadbury

 

In addition to what you said (good post!) there are olympic athletes and such who are purely vegetarian too. People seem to selectively pick what information they take in on this issue though, so proof of health will probably do little to sway some on this board (or in real life).

I mean, how many people have actually met somebody in real life with a deficiency due to a vegetarian lifestyle? I mean a medically cetifiable one too, not just some percieved weakness on the part of the observer?

I've never met one, even before I was a vegetarian (which was the majority of my life, 20+ years!). In addition to that there is all this information praising the health benefits of it, but people just can't get that 'sickly' image out of their heads.

Feels like programming to me. Thankyou meat product marketers. =_=

Human vegetarians wouldn't survive in the wild,thats a fact,we *cannot* survive as a species on plants alone.So humans thousands of years ago ate meat.Meat tastes nice,i dont agree with the way in which meat is produced,thats why i always buy free range etc But some vegetarian stances on this thread is frankly vile,i have seen it all before though...typical supremist nonsense,based on nothing but a bias look at the facts.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Lethil]

reply to post by Lethil


How is it any more of a biased look at the facts than the bias that already exists within society? Assuming our, or your society is value neutral is a huge mistake. The majority of the people in developed nations currently eat meat, there is a lot of marketing pushing meat eating and a lot of villification of vegetarians as 'elitist or something' (yes, we all live in ivory towers in the sky mocking the 'carnivores').

All I'm seeing in this thread is defensive people who have refused to even look at facts that oppose those they currently hold.

Let me ask:

Why wouldn't vegetarians survive in the wild? What wild? Naked in the bush or jungle? On primitive farms? Why is this particularly relevant in our modern society - To me it appears as an attempt to dodge the question in our current time and circumstances.

Similarly, or more importantly given that it is actually modern and not in some crazy post-apocalyptic dimension - Why can't humanity exist without eating meat?

Whether you want to be vegetarian or not, or care or not, the fact is that you can produce more food per land unit via vegetable/fruit/grain produce than you can meat. I don't remember that ever being in dispute by anybody, so why would humanity have trouble without it?

I'm not trying to flame, I'm just trying to get you to actually question the things you've been told or heard. Hell, I'm not stating that history is wrong and reptilians are in charge of everything like other threads on ATS. This is very down to earth stuff.

Again, I don't know why people think vegetarians are elitist. Perhaps it's PETA with it's militant attitudes (PETA aren't very helpful in my opinion) but I certainly don't feel 'above' anyone else because I don't eat animals. I feel some self-satisfaction about sticking to my values, but the same could be said for anyone else in a similar situation...

If anything, vegetarians are generally belittled by the population. We are a minority and not treated particularly well in that regard. Eating out is a PITA in many places, people snub their noses at you and ramble on about 'what is natural' without thinking about it, people assume you are vitamin deficient... The list continues.

Originally posted by jalien
reply to post by Danger Girl

 

Im with you danger girl..instead of trying to peruade people...challenge them, have them go 6 months as a vegian and see how thier bodies and life change...they will never go back..People who are ardently for us eating red meat I truly believe have never tried to be a vegian or a vegaterian. I suggest to all those who wish to oppose this view, just try the lifestyle for 6 months. It wont kill you and if anything else you will gain a broader knowledge of the yourself and the people around you who think this way. Expand your horizions...

Why would I want to do this? There is no benefit to do it unless your moral beliefs ask it of you.

Why not ask you to eat nothing but meat for six months? There are a lot of people who do this and claim they have never been healthier and happier.

So that challenge can go in the opposite direction also.

reply to post by jfj123


It can go in the opposite direction but without the ethical or environmental background. It would be hard, if not impossible to (scientifically/morally at least) justify the procedure on those grounds. It'd seemingly have to be undertaken for the sake of it.

Perhaps saying it is physically better (somehow...) may be valid if you are into things like that Atkins diet, but otherwise it seems lacking in reason. It's also not against the norm and would be less of a change IMO than dropping meat all together.

[edit on 16/6/08 by Duality]

Originally posted by jalien
As for myself people. I have battled two types of deadly cancer. My journey thru this battle has left me talking to many many doctors. I have found that 90 percent of all the doctors from nero, to onco, to family practicineers all agree, the human bodie was not designed to eat meat. Out of all the reasons Danger Girl gave, only one really counts. Our intestines are to long and the meat rots and gives off deadly toxins before we can pass it. Common sense would then tell you not to put something in your body that is going to be poision...to your system. Think before you talk

I'm sorry for your illness and hope you're doing ok.
That being said, I would be afraid to go to any doctor that would tell you that we were not designed to eat meat. It shows they lack basic knowledge of human physiology.
If that were really true, how have the Eskimo's survived? The classic Eskimo diet involves high protein, high fat. If we were not designed to eat meat, they would have died off.
Of course there are many other examples.

Originally posted by Lethil

Human vegetarians wouldn't survive in the wild,thats a fact,we *cannot* survive as a species on plants alone.

They can and do.

So humans thousands of years ago ate meat.Meat tastes nice

Yes, they did. And yes, it does. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

,i dont agree with the way in which meat is produced,thats why i always buy free range etc But some vegetarian stances on this thread is frankly vile,i have seen it all before though...typical supremist nonsense,based on nothing but a bias look at the facts.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Lethil]

I'd say it's mostly the meat-eaters who are "being vile," here. Saying things like "Vegetarians are crap, and weak. Vegetarians can't survive. 'Vegetarians attract enemy radar' (sorry, Chris). Vegetarians are Communists," and similar such gibberish. I don't see that many Vegetarians here attacking people for eating meat, yet they certainly get attacked for not eating it.

Who cares? Just let people eat what they eat.

It's been a long long time. But when I ate surf and turf in FL I could die in peace. Long live filet mignon and lobster.

Originally posted by Cadbury

Originally posted by Lethil

Human vegetarians wouldn't survive in the wild,thats a fact,we *cannot* survive as a species on plants alone.

They can and do.

So humans thousands of years ago ate meat.Meat tastes nice

Yes, they did. And yes, it does. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

,i dont agree with the way in which meat is produced,thats why i always buy free range etc But some vegetarian stances on this thread is frankly vile,i have seen it all before though...typical supremist nonsense,based on nothing but a bias look at the facts.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Lethil]

I'd say it's mostly the meat-eaters who are "being vile," here. Saying things like "Vegetarians are crap, and weak. Vegetarians can't survive. 'Vegetarians attract enemy radar' (sorry, Chris). Vegetarians are Communists," and similar such gibberish. I don't see that many Vegetarians here attacking people for eating meat, yet they certainly get attacked for not eating it.

Who cares? Just let people eat what they eat.

Vegetarians cant survive in the wild unless the species are adapted to it...thats a fact like i said,even the very strict vegetarian groups in india need to eat meat sometimes..So they can and do is false...

reply to post by Duality


In regards to your question of how many people have you met that have a deficiency due to vegetarianism ........ Actually, I have come across quite a few in my time as a nurse.

There have been times when patients have actually been ''prescribed'' meat and eggs to stave off malnutrition.

As for the rotten sludge in peoples stomachs, that is absolute 100% bullsh*t. In all the times that I have assisted and watched a stomach operation, I have never witnessed ''the sludge'', its a complete fallacy / myth / legend, whatever you want to call it.

I suggest to some of you who love to state ''Facts'' that you buy or go to your local library and get hold of a decent (Medical/Nursing) Anatomy and Physiology book and read it, eg: Marieb, Ross & Wilson, Tortora et al.

For the women who do not drink milk (calcium), i say to you it is advisable to drink it, you will only regret it later, post-menopause. 70% of my patients are female, virtually all with hip fractures and most with Osteoporosis.

I could cite 100's of medical reasons why meat eating is good for you, but then i would have to quote the entire medical library.

At the end of the day, GOOD BALANCED NUTRITION is the key to a healthy lifestyle. Man is not designed to be solely a meat eater or a vegatarian but a combination of the two. You only have to examine the 5 basic nutrients that man needs to see that.

PS: After 16 pages of this inappropriate subject, Why is it still here in the SURVIVAL FORUM?

Edit: Was in response to Lethil's last post. I don't know what is going on with my posting, seems buggy.

Lucky for us we live in a modern society with internet, takeaway shops, malls, cars, jets, cellphones and scyscrapers then?

What good is this sort of thinking, what relevance does it have to everyday life? We're not in a survival situation now will we likely be soon. Do you live your life expecting to die tomorrow and have your funeral prepared and updated every single night in preperation? Or do you just live your life. >_<

Why would you worry about ridiculous situations like that. When they occur, then be my guest and rethink your vegetarianism as per the situation.... *sigh*

Logic, where are you my friend...?


Also edit: What sludge are you talking about up above? I didn't mention anything like that.

[edit on 16/6/08 by Duality]

Here is some info from National Geographic

Carnivorous humans go back a long way. Stone tools for butchering meat, and animal bones with corresponding cut marks on them, first appear in the fossil record about 2.5 million years ago.

Some early humans may have started eating meat as a way to survive within their own ecological niche.

A total herbivore is able to coexist with an omnivore because they have significantly different diets.

The key difference between chimps and gorillas ecologically is that chimps eat meat and gorillas don't.

When humans switched to meat-eating, they triggered a genetic change that enabled better processing of fats.

Lucas argues that the mechanical process of chewing, combined with the physical properties of foods in the diet, will drive tooth, jaw, and body size, particularly in human evolution.

As an interesting side note, if you type "humans designed to eat meat" into google, you see VEGAN PROPAGANDA sites pop up everywhere. One vegan site overview even says, even if we are designed to eat meat, it doesn't mean we should

I can't speak for the whole of humanity, but apparently I was "designed" to eat meat. I have some health issues that result in me being on a very, very restricted diet (no dairy, no wheat, no gluten, very low arachiodonic acid content, I have to consume only very low amounts of vitamin D - which, yes, does cause its own share of problems too - and I'm sensitive to certain fruits, vegetables, fungi, and seaweed varieties.)

As a result, I have to include small amounts of chicken breast and egg whites in my diet in order to consume sufficient protein. (Yes, I have researched, tried, and failed with alternatives - the amount that has to be consumed is too great, and the quality of the protein too low for my personal needs.)

I'm healthier - much healthier in fact - on that diet than any I've ever been on. I haven't had so much as the common cold or the flu in about two years. I used to be sick almost perpetually. As I said, I can't speak for anyone else.

Originally posted by Duality
Lucky for us we live in a modern society with internet, takeaway shops, malls, cars, jets, cellphones and scyscrapers then?

What good is this sort of thinking, what relevance does it have to everyday life? We're not in a survival situation now will we likely be soon. Do you live your life expecting to die tomorrow and have your funeral prepared and updated every single night in preperation? Or do you just live your life. >_<

Why would you worry about ridiculous situations like that. When they occur, then be my guest and rethink your vegetarianism as per the situation.... *sigh*

Logic, where are you my friend...?

I can tell you why.

This is the SURVIVAL forum, thats why.

Which part of the word SURVIVAL dont you get?

Originally posted by jfj123
One vegan site overview even says, even if we are designed to eat meat, it doesn't mean we should

And... this is exactly the point I am making?

Edit: It shouldn't be in the survival forum. I don't know why it is in this forum because it has nothing to do with survival.

People eat worms and bugs for survival, but I wouldn't say that most 'carnivores' do that... So why are vegetarians getting roped into crazy no-food scenarios?

It's already been mentioned, but the thread needs to be moved or locked. Why people in our societies would even need to talk about bare-minimum survival in the wild as if it is reality is beyond me.

[edit on 16/6/08 by Duality]

Originally posted by Lethil


Vegetarians cant survive in the wild unless the species are adapted to it...thats a fact like i said,

We don't have to "adapt to it," though. We're hardly trying to grow gills and breathe underwater, here. There are millions upon millions of people who don't eat meat and never have done. Most of them live full, "normal" lives. What were you saying earlier about a "bias look at the 'facts?'"

even the very strict vegetarian groups in india need to eat meat sometimes..So they can and do is false...

And in mountainous regions of Tibet where nothing much grows the Buddhist Monks there will eat Chickens. That "very strict Vegetarian groups" in India do occasionally eat meat doesn't necessarily mean they have to in order to survive. I can understand what you're trying to say, but you're not looking at the millions of people who have never eaten meat and get along just fine.


[edit on 16-6-2008 by Cadbury]

reply to post by Danger Girl


We also have eyes in the front of our head, not on the sides like prey.

We are basically anything we want to be, it's really just down to what you choose - hence why we have choice and animals do not.

Vegetarians are missing out on two essential amino acids required for growth and repair of cells - something you simply do not get in veggies. I used to be a vegetarian for a short period and I really did enjoy it but I really think that small amounts of meat are needed. There are just too many people alive now, thats the problem - not the fact that we're eating meat but rather the sheer amount thats being consumed to fill us.

To be honest, ever since being a vegetarian I tend to eat almost no red meats... it just seems a bit heavy for me now, chicken on the other hand is on the menu practically every day

Originally posted by Duality
Lucky for us we live in a modern society with internet, takeaway shops, malls, cars, jets, cellphones and scyscrapers then?

What good is this sort of thinking, what relevance does it have to everyday life? We're not in a survival situation now will we likely be soon. Do you live your life expecting to die tomorrow and have your funeral prepared and updated every single night in preperation? Or do you just live your life. >_<

Why would you worry about ridiculous situations like that. When they occur, then be my guest and rethink your vegetarianism as per the situation.... *sigh*

Logic, where are you my friend...?

You're obviously new to the survival forum, although I really don't understand why this post is here in the first place. YES we are here talking about every possible "end of the world" (or what we like to call TSHTF) scenario every single day. Yes we have "bug out bags" and we are ready to flee civilization and go back to hiding out in the woods while everyone else dies at any given moment. Take a few moments to read some of the other threads in this forum... We practice making fire by rubbing sticks together because we know that one day we aren't going to have matches and lighters, we practice gardening and farming because we know one day we will need to subsistence farm to live (INCLUDING growing livestock). If anything I think we survivalists are closer to nature than vegetarians and vegans are, because we don't just talk nature and buy it organically at a grocery store, we LIVE IT. We go out and collect edible plants and YES even wild animals to eat.

On a personal note, my mom randomly decided that our whole family would become vegan on our behalf, and for the past 6 months or maybe a year we were vegan, up until about a few months ago when we started slowly putting meat into our diet again with fish, chicken breasts... last night we had steak for father's day for the first time I can remember... DAMN it was good.

Aside from vegetarian hamburgers being absolutely disgusting (fake tofu chicken nuggets/patties taste like the real thing though), there was no real effects. Health-wise, both my parents are still on high-blood pressure medication, veganism didn't really change that. If anything I have GAINED weight. What they fail to tell you is that when you take meat out of your diet, you tend to overcompensate by eating a lot more sugary and and fatty foods, and you never really feel full.

When I move out on my own, I intend to eat -less- meat... judging from my relatives that eat 3 different kinds of smoked meat with every meal, it does have some pretty detrimental effects BUT I believe so would veganism. Maybe not every single day, but I will eat meat.

It's about having a BALANCED diet. As many people have said so far, humans are omnivores so none of the graphics in the original post apply anyway. Eating the occasional chicken breast is not going to kill you... if anything it will only make you stronger and healthier, unless you want to eat beans with every single meal to make up for the lack of protein and B12.

[edit on 6/16/2008 by Yarcofin]