SuperDepression Now Inevitable : ~2010? How to Prepare.

Originally posted by seircram
Unfortunately they have a national work force project in mind. It's called FEMA Camps. Executive Order 11000 allows the govt. to "mobilize civilians into work brigades" under govt. supervision. No mention of job benefits...

Even England is headed in this direction (except they will not bother with a "Martial Law" excuse). A recent post in ATS in another forum:

A future [British] Conservative government will bring in "boot camps" for unemployed young people aged between 18 and 21 who refuse to take a job...

There's been talk of required military service in the United States. It took off like a lead zeppelin.

Also, Executive Order 11000 was called into being in 1962. Don't take my word for it; take a look. As much as an optimist as I am, I recognize that people would probably have to be forcibly herded up into workgroups, lest the run amok and get all their food at gunpoint (as I've seen some people suggest doing during the "inevitable super Depression," and may I point out that strategy only works until you run out of ammo?)

I'm with the older folks on this board. I'm only 33, but I've lived with the threat of nuclear annihilation, dirty bombs, biological warfare, increasing crime, inflation, stagflation, losing economic face to Saudi Arabia, Japan, now China and India, etc. you name it. For whatever reason, we're supposed to live in fear. Fear, as they say, is the mind-killer. As we saw during the last 8 years, fear is a powerful tool; it's equally amazing that we've gone from thinking things weren't so great but not insurmountable, to the end of "American empire" in a matter of months, conveniently enough during an election year. Yes, it can all happen. Will it? We'll see. I don't think it'll be the nightmare scenario but it will likely mean a lower (or at least different) standard of living for Americans. Fine by me; I need to lose weight and don't need all the junk I've accumulated, and I'm tired of driving, seriously.

I'm not sure who the "they" would be who wants you to believe that "American empire" is dead, but y'all need to remember that, although yes, the possibility exists, it's not even the first time within my lifetime that we've stared this in the face...and we dodge the bullet. In the 80s, the Russians managed to do great damage to America just by pumping up the rumor mill. The greatest holders of our debt are allegedly China and Saudi Arabia...disturbing, but they gain nothing from ruining us financially, and I'm sure they know it. Even the Kuatis, who depegged their oil sales from solely the dollar, acknowledge that when the dollar goes back up in value, they'll likely go back to the dollar.

Another source of doomsday scenarios such as the one listed on Shadow Stats is that they put all their eggs in one basket, and that basket is called von Mises. The thing is, I realize he was a smart feller, much more intelligent (at least in economics) than I, but the Libertarians who follow von Mises religiously forget a few things, such as that the Great Depression was far from the first economic crisis the United States ever faced. Indeed, we had more crises under the gold standard than since the standard went away. I realize that historic precedent shows that fiat currencies all fail, but this boneheaded notion that returning to the gold standard will fix all our financial problems is just that, boneheaded.

I read a great piece last night comparing the British Empire and America, and I wish I had tagged it on del.icio.us, because it goes a long way to explaining why America, while it has serious problems, isn't in the dire straits it seems to be, but needs to change drastically, at least in D.C., to recognize that we have to be competitive on a global level, and that partisan politics as usual will guarantee that the doomsday scenario will play out

SuperDepression Now Inevitable : ~2010? How to Prepare.

I know how to prepare...Just stop reading ATS and you'll be fine.

But most of you will panic... have fun.

Oh, and since I was needlessly wordy, I ran out of space, so I missed making one point:

Remember, the United States has been in the middle of what's being called an information war for a few years now. Just keep in mind that just because someone says they're with the oil business, or they're a wall street analyst, or that they're just a concerned citizen, that doesn't necessarily make it so. Take everything with a grain of salt; America has enemies who learned from both the Soviets and Cold War America that rumor can be a powerful thing.

In the case of Shadow Stats, I can't help but notice that it's by and large an advertisement for a paid newsletter. That right there sets off my skeptic alarm.

Now, I realize there are people way smarter than me doing this analysis...but analysis doesn't factor in the human element, and although every fiat currency has failed, the insulting notion is that we've learned nothing from the past and that there's nothing that can be done. See this chart? See these formulae? See how much my newsletter is and how often I'm right in my predictions?

People are not formulae. Until psychohistory becomes reality, that's always going to be true. Markets aren't dictated by formulae, they're dictated by people acting on their knowledge, intuition, and fears. There are people who've made remarkable inroads into predicting these things, but they're just predictions. Disclosure: I am not an economist, and don't even play one on TV.

In the meantime, the country is changing. People are realizing that relying on the chain grocery store for all their food isn't so bright. People are realizing that one-car-per-commuter is really dumb. People are finally realizing that politicians in this country are only interested in blasting the Other Guys while doing nothing. A local senator was fond of saying he went into politics because he wanted to avoid working; how true that is.

Rather than getting any windier, I'll stop here.

Oh, and if y'all aren't familiar with it, check out the following website: Transition Culture It offers a great alternative
to living in fear of hyperinflation and/or a Peak Oil crash (another subject I find insulting, but is too offtopic for this thread.)

Originally posted by PokeyJoe

Originally posted by Frank Black

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
Do you guys realize how economics and economies of huge countries like America actually work?

Obviously you don't. Do you realize that our currency was at one time backed by gold and silver? Do you realize that The Federal Reserve System is private banks charging our country interest to print paper money out of thin air? Do you realize that interest is a big part of the national debt?

What does any of that have to do with what I was talking about?

The gold standard has been gone a long time now, and we have been through many recessions and recoveries since then. When people dont have any idea what economics is really about they always spout off the gold standard, and how corrupt the Fed is.

What does the Federal Reserve have to do with recession and inflation? These are syptoms of the The Federal Reserve. By printing more paper money that isnt backed by any thing of substantial value you force the value of the dollar to go down. Since 1913 when the Fed was enacted the value of the dollar has been continually falling.

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
Do you guys realize how economics and economies of huge countries like America actually work?

It works cyclically. There are large periods of boom, then the balloon gets too large, and has to crash. It bottoms out, and then starts the ascent back up. This is the way it has been since America started.

WRONG it has been this way since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was enacted!!

reply to post by Frank Black


Actually... the Gold Standard still has inflation and deflation, and normal economical cycles.

Pokey would be correct in asserting that it has been this way since America was founded.

In fact.

It's always been this way.

If you want to debate me on this, U2U me.. I would love to debate the Gold Standard with you in a structured debate.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I have done a little research on hyperinflation. It has occured in the USA twice.

The first time was during the revolutionary war! WE SURVIVED IT!

The second time was during the civil war. WE SURVIVED IT!

In the United States of America, hyperinflation was seen during the Revolutionary War and during the Civil War, especially on the Confederate side. Many other cases of extreme social conflict encouraging hyperinflation can be seen, as in Germany after World War I, Hungary at the end of World War II and in Yugoslavia in late 1980s just before break up of the country

en.wikipedia.org...

How did the USA survive those times. Life simply got a little simpler. Markets would have to become local...not global. No need to panic. Just a need to plan.

Peace
WR

reply to post by Bhadhidar



And that is also the sad reality of this whole situation...there are far, far more people out there who simply cannot afford to "stockpile" for the certain to come breakdown in this society due to the current economy and its crumbling state of being. Yes, I do know there are many more problems taking place around us now, lending to the coming breakdown...but the economy being but ONE of the chief points to this.

Unfortunately for people like us, there will be really one or two ways in which to resort to when the day comes to survive...

#1: Adapt and survive at all costs
#2: Allow yourself (and or your family with you) to be allowed to be taken to the FEMA detention camps and be herded like cattle.

I myself will be taking option #1. Folks, there's a very real problem coming and it will force us all to either change to survive or be as the sheep led to the slaughter.

ennie mennie min-eee moe

america is in a long-term slow motion reck you know

no more yo-yo up and down

globalization is here and the nations known as the "west" are gonna frown

all socioeconmic systems eventually fail

esp. when the nations industry's are sucked dry by financial elite who should be in jail

the ancients had a bit more knowledge

the powers that be are privvy to this but will never acknowledge

at the apex of a group ties together occult and finance

the information keepers of the ancient mystery's teaching wont squander the chance

to drive the world to the brink

and consolidate their power and take control of everything but the kitchen sink

problem reaction solution drives the direction now in the world

the new infrastrucure is being built for what you aren't told

reply to post by ybab hsur


But, America is corrupt,(your political system is a joke to everyone but yourselves), and it is far from the greatest country on earth(except in crime, possibly homelessness, and definately debauchery, and of yeah, religious whackos, fat people, and me,me,me, greed).
Sorry, but it's the truth, and why you are where you are.
And befroe you go off on how I hate Americans:
Untrue. Have American friends. Still don't like America. Come to think of it, neither do they , much.

reply to post by whiteraven


Yeah but this time, there's a police state, no producing infrastructure, a LOT of drugs, north american union, CORRUPTION TO LEVELS NEVER SEEN and the whole rationning for climate change BS that they will push soon enough and we will have all the control freaks and the eco-nazis on our backs.

We'll be a mix of nazi germany during WW2, weimar republic and high tech police state like in Minority Report. It will sure be a good world... NOT.

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


Mmmm got to love ignorant self consumed imbeciles..

But, America is corrupt,(your political system is a joke to everyone but yourselves)

America is not corrupt. Our politicians might be corrupt, but I dare you to show me a Country without corrupt politicians..

and it is far from the greatest country on earth

This would be a matter of opinion, not facts, so your asinine assertions mean little more then a childish rant..

except in crime

Per capita, Scotland is actually the most violent country in the world.. followed by South Africa. I believe America was in the top 5 though.

possibly homelessness

Depends on the definition of "homelessness" .. I would say in the western world we rank high, as a percentage of our population it is probably lower, and compared to the rest of the world, it's hardly comparable.

debauchery

OK?

religious whackos

Assuming this is another childish OPINION of yours, it is incredibly closed minded. Last I checked, religion was a world wide phenomenon lol..

fat people

Can't deny that. However, it should be noted that in generations past (1900 and earlier) a persons wealth and health where defined by their girth. A fat woman was a healthy woman. Only in current times do we starve our selves and eat biologically engineered health foods, then regurgitate into a toilet to ... eh ... "look healthy".

Sorry, but it's the truth, and why you are where you are.

You seem like an intelligent person (comparing intelligence to a small rodent) do tell... what exactly IS "our" situation?

And befroe you go off on how I hate Americans:
Untrue. Have American friends. Still don't like America. Come to think of it, neither do they , much.

So you don't hate America....... because you got friends who are American and hate America with you. I expect this astoundingly astute logic, I must say it still baffles me the length to which people go to convince themselves they are not harboring hate. Pathetic at best.

Your post may go noticed by the ignorant and mundane anonymous anti American, but I believe most people will read it, shake their head and think of what a pathetic little individual with such a dismal understanding of the world who must have wrote such putrid garbage.

It's people like you who bring down the level of intelligence in a conversation. If you have something other then "I hate America because they are fat" and that is relevant to the thread, please by all means bring it forward. I would love something worth while to debunk other then your Neanderthal thought process.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Yeah but this time, there's a police state

Actually... there isn't.

I would encourage you to go visit a REAL police state. Tell me how it is mate. See how long it takes before you crack yearning for your freedoms, your comfy computer chair and high speed internet.

Not to mention, we could look back to so many points in American history and see that things are so much better then they where. If you told me a police state was coming in the 1880's I would have believed you. In 1929 .. hell ya.. when we where incarcerating anyone of Japanese origin? .. Ya, I would have said "ZOMG police state!" right with you .. in the 1960's I would have said .. dude.. right around the corner man ...

But now.. because some enemy combatants are held in POW detention camps and some fat white trash intoxicated moron gets tazed for throwing a fit at a traffic stop .. it's a police state?

Perhaps the people in the world are complacent and have never seen "turmoil" and invent it themselves.. reminds me of an old man telling his grand son how many miles he had to walk to school, up hill both ways, in the snow.. and the grand kid stamping his feet because his nintindo stopped working.

political bickering for the sake of political bickering. Because politics don't go your way your slant to your leaning.. dear God the world is going to end.

no producing infrastructure

Eh, last I checked we still had the World's largest GDP. Last I checked, we still had the World's largest economy.

a LOT of drugs

...

north american union

So, that's like saying that when the EU became.. the EU .. then .. they all should have collapsed? I don't like the idea of the NAU .. but if it must take place, the outcome will most likely be standardization across international boundaries.. improving the quality of life for millions of Mexicans. Evil indeed.

CORRUPTION TO LEVELS NEVER SEEN

I think it's about the same as it's always been.

We'll be a mix of nazi germany during WW2, weimar republic and high tech police state like in Minority Report. It will sure be a good world... NOT.

And those who lived through such dire times would be thinking what a spoiled brat some people act like.

reply to post by mOOmOO


If the government told you a hand grenade was an enima, would you put it up your rear?

The 2 consecutive quarters does not work in reality because underreported inflation makes GDP look better than it is. We have been in recession in reality for several quarters already.

Keep dreaming if it makes you feel better. The only bargains out there are food that you can afford to buy while it is still available.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Not if there from anywhere except in America. You fail to realize that you have more enemies in the world than friends. Oh sure, I suppose someone such as yourself who is so obviously tuned in with reality ( ), would attribute that to jeolousy, (again, ).
Can't argue with that sort of reasoning can one....especially if your a rodent.
Seriously, people hate America because of self riteous, flag wavers such as yourself. You're country is going down the sewer and you and your type are still singing "God Bless America". Well for your sake, you better hope your "god" does exist, because that's about all that is gonna save you at this point.
Your fiat money system is screwed and was designed that way.
Your government has zero credibility no matter who is in power (which they are not. They answer to a rockefeller, who answers to a Rothschild).
I could go on, but what would be the point.
You just carry on freemason'n your way through life genius.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by morthn1waytoskinacat]

Double post for some reason.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by morthn1waytoskinacat]

Originally posted by whiteraven
Correct me if I am wrong but was not hyperinflation the culprit that helped the rise of Adolf Hitler?

This merits research. Thank you for the post.

I'd probably "LAWL" if Hitler just like got unfrozen for this..Hey guys what did I miss?...lol?

Let me say that in my 37 years on this planet I have never been as concerned as I am now about my (our) future. We are entering a full out global economic disaster, but it hasnt become fully apparant to the majority of Americans and middle class people around the world.

How a global depression could be avoided at this point is beyond my comprehension. There has been a global credit/debt bubble created since the big meltdown of 1929 and it is popping before our eyes. It wouldnt be so bad but assets/debts have been inflated by financial institutions to the point of insanity. Recessions in the past have been muddled through by creating more and more money via credit leveraging. Now, things are totally out of control and multiple bubbles are bursting simultaneously and hyperstagflation is starting.

If Im wrong, things will be as they have been and most of us will be fine. If Im right, most of us will be eating our pets.