Creationists Will Destroy ATS

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

~ Epicurus

[edit on 31/5/2008 by wreckage]

I dont think any one is ruining ats except those complaing that spomeone else is ruining ats/ Ha so it bounces off and sticks to the accuser... whiners. ha




[edit on 31-5-2008 by Yosimitie Sam]

reply to post by skyshow

So when people begin to question things on ATS, invite in a discussion. Celebrate diversity, and be willing to question what you have read or been told. Learn in depth what the scientific method is, and how evolution is applied to research in modern medicine, human and animal studies. Most of our modern developments as a species have come out of science and evolutionary theory. Chemistry, modern medicine, social sciences...all of it! This is why when you try and throw creationism at someone who is experienced in the sciences they tend to roll their eyes at you...you will not ever be able to definitively prove them wrong either, way too much evidence and advancements have come about from this theory. Does it explain everything? No...there is obviously some room left for other theories as too man's origins. I lean more into the star seeding one while even then evolution still is in play and can co-exist with genetic manipulation, but you pick what ever one works best for you. I put my faith in science, and perhaps some day science will back up your faith?

Yes you are correct science indeed does back up my faith today in a very profound way. You are correct that if you study science with an open mind you will find God. The problem is religious propaganda form atheists screwing up objective science. Very unfortunate indeed.

I am trained as a scientist form a major State University BS program. I am a computer scientist - so more on the mathematics and inorganic side of things. But lots of calculus, chemistry and physics. The funny thing is I wasn't a Christian when I started engineering school and I was older than most students ( in my 30s). It was a missionary student that led me to the Lord but two of my Chemistry teachers are the ones that convinced me you do not have to leave your brains at the door to be a Christian.

I mean geez even Einstein believed in divine intelligence. Things like the anthropic principle in physics have actually been dropping atheists like flies lately. Several top atheist writers have converted to theism - due to the merits of the anthropic principal alone. For example, Dr Antony Flew was a mainstay of the atheist literature has made a public statement of conversion to theism.

We are not threatened by science - the theme of this thread is simply that Astyanax and his gang of radical atheist extremist jack booted thugs are afraid of Creationists. Are you attempting to switch thew goal posts? It is understandable since they have a a logically incoherent position but that is what denying ignorance is all about.

reply to post by wreckage


Would God create a stone even he couldn't lift?

Yep: It's called your free will.
It isn't that he can't force you, it's that he won't.

Originally posted by skyshow
Um, that could just of easily read..."the only possible reason is a common source of...Biological accidents and chemical reactions". I would argue science doesn't need to find "the maker", it is employed to solve tasks a bit more down to earth. Perhaps in the future however, new ways of measuring the either, as it were, will be developed and more substantial hard evidence can be collected to help us not only identify, but better define the so called "creator". Science moves very slow however, and it's findings are not always agreeable and often come as a complete surprise to those who hold beliefs that science sometimes find to be in error.

No, sideshow, it couldn't have just as easily said what you think but I DO understand why you would assume so far a reach. Perhaps you got tired of hanging around Ashley's neck ignoring her gracious attempts to tell you to back off but I see you get a kick out of that itch you got for an argument. Ya know sideshow, I am never surprised to see someone,, oh say Ashley, or any other Christian Apologist, act just like a Christian.

You know, those silly fundie's so incompetent yet some how, some way, they are the biggest threat to the survival of this forum. Never could keep up with the Atheist's who blame Christians on the latest tragedy of the month.

Even when you so called Atheists in the so called Science community, express your frustration with people in this day and age who do not embrace Darwinian macro evolution. I see people such as yourself single out someone,, oh some, some Religious person, then you start insulting her for acting like a religious person. It doesn't surprise me at all that you behave like an unsaved godless person sideshow.

Don't be alarmed at my candor, it certainly can't be anyless phony than the facetious sarcasm you pelted Ash with. Besides the trouble one goes to to type all that, they have had a number of posts removed already and I am usually a scandalous bit more vinegar than Ashley

I find it even more telling that as astyanax complains about the place not being intellectually stimulating enough for his extraordinary appetite to devour Mensa members in 5 min checkmate debates on but those damn Christians just make life so,, so,, so ,,,mundane, so uneventful.

Regardless, what difference does it make? If one truly has faith and believes that they have the truth, why the need to debate scientific findings?

You really need to quit making this an issue of our religion vs your silly science theory slide show. First there are plenty of reasons and plenty of specious spurious acts ranging from espionage, spying, manufacturing, fabricating evidence to ruining careers for challenging the religion of evolution. While you have been riding Ashley's posts like a pre-pubescent 6th grade crush pulling her hair, and teasing her non stop. I figured she could probably get some real posts done while I have you "school me" in the ways of macro evolution.

I am so excited to have an actual scientist like you teach me something so hard to understand that ,, well Golly geee,, I'm just happy to bask in the presence of such staggering intellect so effective an educator.

I used to teach science in chemistry all over the country, on you tube but I bet it's nothing compared to you huh Professor?

Science is not the mortal enemy of faith as so many think. It may be that items of your faith be modified to match up with scientific findings (ie: when we had to change the item from the sun rotating around the earth to the earth rotating around the sun...). Wouldn't one of the faith want to have this flexibility rather than being rigid and resistant to change?

I really wish you Atheist's would stop associating yourself synonymously with Science because,, You ain't science and you ain't anymore "in the know" about it than anyone else. Pretending to be a Science does NOT a Science make but it serves well to keep the Atheists hopes up for that day they can actually yell at a fundie saying "That breaks all the laws of evolution!" .

Oh that's just splendid! wow you really burned us with that lie you pass off as biblical contradiction. Care to have me show you what you don't know? Id love to get off on another thread if you like sideshow? Macro vs Genesis?

There may be a god, and there may not be, but whatever the ultimate reality of it all is, what makes little people here on this one tiny planet orbiting this one average star out on the outskirts of one galaxy containing millions of star systems, and one galaxy out billions, think they hold the absolute truth?

Why do you superimpose your own comparative inferiority about size related significance in the vastness of space as something we are,, apparently supposed to have a huge cognition resulting in some mental breakthrough saying we are so meaningless when you consider how small we are in space.

This kind of finite thinking is typical of those who do not know God.

Most of our modern developments as a species have come out of science and evolutionary theory.

GuFaW!!!! HA HA HA HA HA YOU guys, you atheists CAN'T even TEACH it well enough to have it take hold while other science such as quantum or cosmology etc,. are readily understandable and accepted by society but those you teach are the very people you blamed for it not progressing! HA HA HA HA. Let me tell you what your evolution scam has accomplished.

It has proven that this is a theory whose majority of supporters are atheists but as for new innovative technologies in Science, all I have ever seen Atheist evolutionist do is TALK!

Care to show me the mountain of proof prima facie evidence for macro (NOT MICRO) but any new species lately? Tell us side show, what or who did we evolve from? Java man? Piltdown? name it show it or do something to show that after all these years someone, anyone, even YOU would funish the proof once and for all.

Dazzle me sideshow,,show me how easy we are to debate science with and Ill see if I can keep up while I rip your evolution to shreds leaving you choking on the dust of your own regrets.

Gol ahead call my bluff,,

im just a fundie

- Con




[edit on 1-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by wreckage


" Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? "


lol...it's not His job!!!

It is our job to figure out how we got here and give credit, where credit is due..

God does not FORCE people to do things.

WE are in a war, between good and evil, and we are all being tested whether or not you know it, or like it, it don't matter. It is what it is.

Seek, [ the truth ] and ye shall find. just like the scriptures say.

Originally posted by wreckage



Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

~ Epicurus

[edit on 31/5/2008 by wreckage]

Perhaps is epicurus wouldn't be assuming the consequent each time he would know

- Con

There is a place for Christians, it's called church.

hehe. But the bible doesn't say that. I know, cause I checked. - the building is where God is - thing, was done away with at the death and resurrection of Yeshua (jesus). Now God is in the believer via the Comforter (The Holy Spirit, which was called the Shekinah in the old testament and He dwelt in the Temple, in the Holy of Holies. Now the believer is the Temple .. which kinda makes sense if you understand that the old testament Temple was a blueprint of a human body and the holy of holies was the head of the body). Pretty cool, if'n ya ask me. (i know you didn't ask me! but ya said that and I just couldn't help meself!)

soooo, anyway. I don't understand what the problem is exactly, as far as having a difference of opinion goes. I've been encountering people with different types of opinions all my life. I even knew a guy that thougth the false prophet was electricity and the antichrist was the TV set.



[edit on 1-6-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


nice post, but I must ask, how is it that an atheist screws up science? The definition of an atheist, is one who has no belief in a god or religion, I fail to see how an atheist would screw up observation based on a lack of a belief in a god? What, prey tell has that to do with science??? And why would a believer care? You talk about checking the brain at the door...you claim to have a BS degree, and yet you spout this crazy nonsense...did you also take logic and philosophy in your course work? I'm not trying to antagonize, believe me I'm not, I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian setting, and I whole heartedly reject it do to lack of substantial evidence. I have a BA, a BS, and an MS. Not that it matters, but for the record I will say I do have a substantial understanding of the Christian religion, and of science.

See, and I studied science in a big way...and not only did I not find god, but I found more reason than not to suggest that not only does the god of most world faiths, not exist, but that humans want in the worst way to believe in a god based on a fear of the unknown, and a profound denial of death. No, doing research, and conducting study in science, definately does not bring one to god...at least that was my experience. Perhaps one who has put in thousands of hours in the lab and done the leg work can produce evidence otherwise, but never once in those grey and dingey halls of academia did I ever once get close to finding god. LOL. In fact, the idea of god never once ever even entered into the equasion. You guys have to abandon the whole notion that god and science are adversaries. They are in fact two entirely different things, or at least one thing that is real, and the other that is a myth...why must you connect the two concepts when clearly they have little in common?

[edit on 1-6-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by Conspiriology


gee, that's nice. My aren't we full of judgement? How in the hell do you know if I'm an athiest or not? Huh? That's none of your damned business. Some of you Christians bring so much shame onto the teachings of such a wonderful being. You claim to believe, and yet you make such a mockery of the teachings.

And yes I am constantly insulted by, and ashamed of you so called followers of Christ. I've read and studied the scriptures, and some of you folks couldn't be farther from the truth nor recognize it if it stood up and bit you in the face! Never before ever in my life have I ever known a bunch of judgemental reactionary backward bunch of folks ever!

What's the verse? You know the one about getting thine beam out of thine own first before passing judgement....all this does is add more weight onto the O.P.

For those of you who want to do the "lord's work", why not go out into the real world and do things to help the poor and hungry? There are tent cities all over the country. There are around 50,000,000 who have no health insurance, and millions of school children go to school every day with no breakfast. The damn food banks are running out food. People need clothing, and help with their utilities. Elderly folks could use help cleaning up their yards and fixing up their houses...but some of you religious folk, I suspect, feel you are a "warrier of the lord" by coming on ATS and posting your foolish rhetoric that really does little to advance the cause. Your kidding yourself in the end. I really feel the O.P. had a huge point...and all these pages of the breathren ironically, really back it up...





[edit on 1-6-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

What's the verse? You know the one about getting thine beam out of thine own first before passing judgement....all this does is add more weight onto the O.P.
[edit on 1-6-2008 by skyshow]

it all makes sense now!~

except the part where what you just said backs the OP at all . . .

;scratches head;

the poorly learned creationists you claim to speak of, could be, "metaphorically"; bats that think they're birds . . . it might not sound too great when they sing; but who has the right to tell them that they can't?

[edit on 6/1/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by skyshow
Never before ever in my life have I ever known a bunch of judgemental reactionary backward bunch of folks ever!

First of all, I would like to thank Skyshow for coming to our defense and being astute enough to notice that our behavior is often reactionary. Skyshow is very wise to see that when you poke a dog with a stick, you will get a reaction.

This reminds me of something I said on the first page: "Do you guys not see the perpetual acts of antagonism many of you engage in towards other members?"

What makes this thread so ironic is that ATS is a place to discuss alternative theories, correct? And have we not been constantly reminded at every turn that evolution is the acceptable science while all other beliefs and theories are the fringe? Then discussing creationism here is ideal.

It saddens me to see the amount of close minded members who are supporting the OP and who would rather silence an alternative views instead of debate it.

The other thing that makes this so ironic, is that this thread was meant to antagonize. Then the OP and his tag team cronies act surprised and claim this thread has proven it's own point.

Mad Hatter used an excellent analogy in another thread that I will borrow for this one. This thread would be like me making the bigoted statement 'Black people are angry and are destroying the world.' Then walking into a room full of black people, calling them the N word, and pointing the finger while saying, 'See? I told you black people are angry!' That is essentially what has been done on this thread and numerous others on ATS that are troll threads meant to bait and antagonize.

So, these types of threads are what bring down ATS because they start drama, create divisions, and distract us from actual discussion topics.

[edit on 6/1/2008 by AshleyD]

originally posted by the OP
They acted in cohesion, working the threads as a group, backing one another up in debates, posting encouraging messages on one another's profiles, making pincer attacks on atheist or agnostic posters, and working -- or so it seemed to me -- to a well-thought-out agenda.

You mean like what is happening with all the anti-creationist/Anti-religious posts on this Thread www.abovetopsecret.com...
and this one www.abovetopsecret.com...' and on this third one...www.abovetopsecret.com...'.

Kind of makes this comment look rediculous.

They efficiently exploited all the benefits of cooperation and teamwork that genuine FTists can never enjoy, because FTists aren't team players. And they were formidable, because of this; they could collectively bring more energy to a debate than any individual ATS member could muster on his own.

p.s. How do you exploite the benefits of co-operation. LOL. Is your point that you are a Lonely FTists, resentfull of the collective human nature of those that advocate creationism. Frustrated that others will not band with leaving you feeling isolated.



[edit on 1-6-2008 by atlasastro]

I think this has gone on long enough

This thread has degenerated into pointless games of abuse tennis and crowmobbing. There's nothing to be gained here any more by anyone. The actual point of discussion has long since been lost. It's all primate threat displays now, and it's gone on long enough.

Creationists are crazy. They'res actually something mentally wrong with them. Just ignore them..

reply to post by atlasastro


The definition of religion is it's based on faith and the definition of faith is a belief without evidence (objective, the only real kind). The definition of ignorance is lack of knowledge (evidence). Religion is the literal end of ignorance. ATS's moto is to deny ignorance. If you're not going to do that, you should leave.

see www.youtube.com... for why evidence must be objective LOL

[edit on 6/1/08 by RedDragon]

Originally posted by Astyanax
I think this has gone on long enough

This thread has degenerated into pointless games of abuse tennis and crowmobbing. There's nothing to be gained here any more by anyone. The actual point of discussion has long since been lost. It's all primate threat displays now, and it's gone on long enough.

Like most of your threads designed to bait Christians into defending there faith or there humanary and fundamental right to have a seat at the table of Science and anywhere else we damn well please. The very moment we do, you throw in the towel disappointed at the result. I said this was going to happen a long time ago talking to madness but he was to cocky to imagine Atheists would ever lose there place and dominance on the boards where they could just go around spreading lies about Christianity and Science. You know this thread was a dead end from the get go on premise alone.

It is YOU atheists that keep making this a quasi science religion debate or haven't you noticed that? You rarely see Christians using any scripture anymore in these debates. I know I sure as hell don't but I see Atheists constatntly making Science an issue because they think they have Science on there side and when we exploit how ignorant Atheists are in Science which seems to be a daily event these days, they show there true grit

and quit.

Astyanax this thread as well intentioned as it obviously wasn't, is testimony to the very hipocrisy you have given us as proof on a platter that it still hasn't occured to you that it isn't us, you have a problem with.

You seem to represent everything you have always hated about creationists and Christianity. You hate in yourself what you see in us but you don't acknowledge it. It isn't Christians or Creationists you have a problem with no more than it is who we are that will ultimately destroy ATS in spite of your prejudice, intolerance, bigotry and ignorance.

What the hell did you expect when you insist on poking the bear. You make it personal it gets personal, the math is pretty simple that way.

All the things you have ever complained about and accused Christians of we find in the end, YOU,

Are just as guilty of.

- Con

Originally posted by RedDragon
reply to post by atlasastro

 

The definition of religion is it's based on faith and the definition of faith is a belief without evidence (objective, the only real kind). The definition of ignorance is lack of knowledge (evidence). Religion is the literal end of ignorance. ATS's moto is to deny ignorance. If you're not going to do that, you should leave.

see www.youtube.com... for why evidence must be objective LOL

[edit on 6/1/08 by RedDragon]

Where do you get this garbage? Dr Seuss? That definition of faith and religion is about as inaccurate as your Bias is obvious.

I was going to give you a more educated resource to study but after seeing you lump all creationists together as just some group of crazies,, Ill just pass. Never could interest a bigot into higher education.

- Con

reply to post by AshleyD

Ash I agree with most of what you said. However, I find it hard to take your disgust seriously when you yourself have created threads such as "The Gullibility of Evolutionists". I know we've been over this before, but I rememeber that thread not being too different from this one. I don't believe Creationists should be excluded from this fun little website, but do you think me and my Atheist views would be at home ona Christian site? Maybe at first as they chuckled at my godlessness, but as I actively assualted their beliefs and presented them with "evidence" that supports my views, I don't think it would be long before I was banned.

You religious folks are welcome here by the people that matter, all the other rhetoric you find so distasteful just comes with the territory. You really can't expect anything less these days. And nor can I genuinely give you any advice on how to deal with radical idiots. I certainly wouldn't suggest confronting them or trying to reason with them. i'm starting to think if all you believers would just ignore the anti-religion people, maybe ATS would be a better place.Because wrangling with them just makes the problem worse. Same goes to you ATheists out there, just ignore people if you find them to be too pushy.

You know what they say about arguing with fools.....

Originally posted by skyshow

gee, that's nice. My aren't we full of judgement?

No more than you are pal but you can spare me the loving Christian reputation to live up to especially where you are concerned sideshow. I turned the other cheek the moment I saw you slinging mud at AshleyD telling her how tired you are of her

How in the hell do you know if I'm an athiest or not? Huh? That's none of your damned business. Some of you Christians bring so much shame onto the teachings of such a wonderful being. You claim to believe, and yet you make such a mockery of the teachings.

How do I know your an atheist?? You're kidding right?

Psssst,, hey, smart guy,, you with the masters degree, C'mere,,, Ill tell you how I know you are an Atheist. Ready?

YOU SAID SO.

You said you don't believe in God as you attempted to establish yourself as an authority to whammy in another post saying you are more convinced than ever that God does not exist. That's how I know and whenever you talk smack about Christians as often and as much as you do,, I make it my business and if you don't like it,,

TOO BAD.

BE ADVISED: I am not now, nor will I ever be the Christian YOU would like me to be but than again, you and most Atheists are so filled with hatred for Christians the proof of that hatred fills the boards on this forum and is the very motivating factor behind the premise of the OP.

If you agree with the OP than I got to say, you are just as much hipocrit, just as intolerant, just as prejudice as astyanax is for suggesting it.

If I didn't know better I'd think the one I was in now would be about Atheist's blaming us for yet another reason we should be persecuted and kept from the very debates this forum was created around.

Imagine that, Atheist's who during the scopes trials were using the legalese via the mouth piece of Clarence Darrow to argue that NO theory NO people NO other argument no other voice should be kept out of Science. Yet what do we see them doing? Invariably I see YOU there defending Atheists and using the most ignorant asinine, childish reasons to insult, judge and attack Christians behind the most over exagerated and embellished opinion of ones self I have ever seen.

Your alleged college degrees never impressed me, in fact, I DON'T Belieeeeeeeeeeve you.

And yes I am constantly insulted by, and ashamed of you so called followers of Christ. I've read and studied the scriptures, and some of you folks couldn't be farther from the truth nor recognize it if it stood up and bit you in the face! Never before ever in my life have I ever known a bunch of judgemental reactionary backward bunch of folks ever!

Yep you are right about all of that and the very reason we are sinners but where did you get the idea that YOU are differen't ?

Who do you think you are?

What's the verse? You know the one about getting thine beam out of thine own first before passing judgement....all this does is add more weight onto the O.P.

Oh this is where you are being dishonest and if you can't see the transparent real motives behind the OP's obvious attempts to single out a group calling for special unique conditions and options to deal with them, you have got to be as full of the same character flaws you have just accused me of.

I guess that makes you just as much of what backs up the OP as you have said about us eh.


- Con







[edit on 1-6-2008 by Conspiriology]