Michelle Obama - that 'whitey' tape

reply to post by BradKell



I'll just add that the definition given by webster and reprinted on the thread includes in its first defintion the power relationship - that is the perceived right of one group to RULE over another...which is why it is perceived to be a minority issue and in reality IS a minority issue....we can disagree over how that imbalance should be addressed and resolved but it won't be resolved by labeling people who speak out against their own oppression as racist which is what big media pushes endlessly and apparently from some of the comments on this thread - very effectively.

Originally posted by realshanti
Michelle and Obama and Black Liberation theologists are racist,

Because THEY ARE.

By James Cone
Black Theology and Black Power:

“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.”

Read up about what you call not-racist. :shk:

your knowledge of history or current conditions in black communites is absolutely nil...and your arguments are bankrupt...

Dream on. Oh ... and your version of 'history and conditions' wouldin't include their self segregation and failure to take personal responsibility for ones own actions would it? Of course not. That wouldn't be PC. Blame whitey ... it's easier.


ON TOPIC - If this tape exists then I wish that fact hadn't leaked out. Now Obama has plenty of time to make a pretty speech to further 'bamboozle' the Obamatrons ... you know ... something blaming the victim (whitey) of his wife's rant instead of blaming his racist spewing wife. It would have been better just to not let it be known until October.



[edit on 5/27/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by realshanti

presented facts, experience, and history to back up my arguments

...except you didn't..

reply to post by realshanti


"People who speak out against there own oppression". Realshanti, that's from you.

I ask you, when a person can't have a United Caucasian College Fund, but another can have a United Negro College Fund... what is principly wrong with that?

I am not saying having a United Negro College Fund is Racist at all (though by definition it is), I am saying the circumstance of having a United Negro College Fund but NOT ALLOWING for a United Caucasian College Fund is Racist.

There are laws saying you HAVE to hire African-Americans, Spanish-Americans, Cuban-Americans.... ever see a law saying X amount of employees had to be Caucasian?

The point is that people aren't asking for BALANCE, they are asking for EDGE and EDGE IS NOT EQUALITY. Yet, so conveinantely, they saying these are EQUAL RIGHTS. I can, you can't... those aren't Equal at all.

Back to your quote on People and their Oppression. How long does this chain continue? As I said, I'm Irish, Native American, Italian and German. Some pretty oppressed peoples along with one who did some oppression... so by your statement Me and 'My People' should speak out against our Oppression. Except, at the moment, I see ALL PEOPLE OF LOWER CLASS being oppressed. It's a Class Issue, not a Race Issue. (Unless you want all of your race only in the Upper Class).

People refuse to open their eyes to such. They figure robbing a poor Caucasian so a poor African-American can get the Scholarship and spot in College is the answer. This is not so.

If people want Equality, they have to show the ability to judge and act on Equality. Not say "We can have this because we are this color, and you can not have this because you are another skin color". What would happen to me if I attempted to win a Negro College Fund Scholarship, and after winning due to Merit I admitted I wasn't Negro?

They would strip me of the Scholarship and put me on the Media to crucify me.

Now, if an African-American won a Scholarship from Harvard, then admitted he was African-American what would happen? If they tried revoking his Scholarship everyone in America would say how Racist Harvard was, after all the kid won on merit.

Except BOTH broke a TRUST with the College/Fund. Both LIED to GAIN. Neither should be allowed the reward. Yet only ONE would be defended. And it wouldn't be me.

Shall we go over what some can say and others can't again?

Now, please, show me where the media has me sold on their ideas. The same Media that would crucify me for either the UNCF Fraud or for saying the N Word with cameras and recorders around. The same media that would come to the rescue of that poor African-American that Harvard is being racist to, while telling his friends "Ya'll feel me, cause ya'll my N's." probably then releasing a Rap Song called A "N" Can't Even Get An Education, hitting #1 on the Charts due to being so 'Contriversal' (Think the song by the Caucasian "I Lost My Spot In College Because Me and a "N" Both Cheated And They Let Him In But Gave Me The Boot" would even get radio time? That's a negative.)

I am sick and tired of having some one tell me they want Equality, but then refuse to be treated equally. It is very hypocritical, and the Media has nothing to do with it.

I've never once owned a Slave of any Race. I've never once been a Slave of any Race (though maybe the Government). That can be said of every living person I know. So, please, EXACTLY how far back does this 'Oppressed People' act go? So we can get it over with and move on to the actual CLASS ISSUE?

Production, movement forward, actual equality. Not bickering over things 100 years old, or even 20. Because if you gripe about 20 years ago, 20 years from now you'll gripe about 40 years ago. It will never end. Let us all open are eyes and see who really is oppressed NOW. The Poor.

reply to post by realshanti


As to the Definition... who is the perceived Power now? Those protected by the laws, or those not?

You telling me a white kid growing up in Watts is any more or less Powerful than his neighbor in the same apartment complex who happens to be black?

Or the homeless white vetern who dies in his sleep on the side of the street is any more Powerful than the homeless black vetern who dies the same night next to him?

Or how about the white Private in Iraq, in the same MRAP as the black private. Who is more Powerful when the IED blows through both of them?

Show me this Power to be rallied against. Please, since Media has mislead me in your mind, teach me. Show me this Power Webster speaks of. Give me any answers or comments you can to this and my previous post. Show me where I fail to understand that wanting more isn't equality.

Because if my Logic is flawed, then I truely wish to fix it. I just don't see it being so. What I type reads perfectly logical to me. Care to give me a different point of view on the subject? Maybe it's my perception, looking at the wrong angle.

This is an excerpt from an article by Ron Daniels/1999 - nothing much has changed imo...at least on this thread...

While no one would claim that there is not some hostility towards Whites in the Black community, it certainly is not pervasive. On the contrary, forgiveness, tolerance and reconciliation are traits, which are deeply imbedded in Black culture. There is absolutely no history of Black people systematically advocating or conducting campaigns of hatred and terror against White people. Hence isolated incidents of overt hostility and/or violence by Blacks towards Whites are the exception and not the rule. Such rare incidents cannot be equated with the long history of terror and racist violence which Black people have suffered in this country at the hands of hostile White individuals and organizations.

By definition, racism is the capacity/power to translate prejudice/bigotry into custom, policy or law. Black people have not had the predisposition or the power to oppress White people in this country. Hence the notion of “Black racism” is a contradiction in terms. It is odd that Mr. Horowitz would focus on so called anti-White racism when Black people like James Byrd are still being lynched in this country or police brutality, mostly at the hands of White police officers and the racist phenomenon of DWB, Driving While Black, have reached epidemic proportions. I am not aware of any organized group in the Black community, which, is going around painting swastikas on Jewish Synagogues or burning down White churches. The resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan and other Neo Nazi and white supremacist organizations and militias is real. Benjamin Nathaniel Smith who went on a killing spree in the Mid-West or Buford Furrows who wounded several children in a Jewish daycare center and killed an Asian American postal worker in Los Angeles are not figments of the imagination. There are real white supremacist terrorists in this country who are armed, dangerous and intent on preserving America as a White Anglo Saxon Protestant nation.

Why are people like David Horowitz blaming the victim rather than shining the light on the real villains in American society? Perhaps it is because it is now quite profitable for closet/polite racists to publish distortions and misconceptions that reinforce the fears and anxieties of sizeable numbers of White people in a society where racism and white supremacy are still alive and well. Black people have no choice but to continue to demand affirmative action, reparations and other governmental policies designed to overcome past and present oppression and exploitation of Africans in America.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by realshanti]

okay kids I'm done with this thread - I in fact did post quite a bit about my own experience and those of others on this thread and elsewhere on the site on one of the other obama threads...but everything so far has fallen on deaf ears - no worries though...everything changes....and thats the hope that keeps me going..I know a lot of you are well meaning and just trying to understand but some here have an agenda and there is no arguing with an agenda...so toodles for now...best to everyone...
TA
Realshanti

reply to post by realshanti


"By definition, racism is the capacity/power to translate prejudice/bigotry into custom, policy or law. Black people have not had the predisposition or the power to oppress White people in this country. " RealShanti, this is from your post, an excerpt from another.

So, the power to have a United Negro College Fund, backed by governmental law... but no power to have a United Caucasian College Fund DUE TO LAW.

The Power to give AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN a certain percentage of jobs (Quota) though the person hired may or may not be the best applicant BY LAW, versus being not hired though you may be the best applicant BY LAW.

Does this not look like the capacity to translate prejudice into custom, policy, or LAW?? I would say the poster, though possible right at the time of the posting, is CURRENTLY WRONG.

To say that Johnny Cochrane and other Power Brokers haven't shown the capacity to enact law based on prejudice is completely false.

Sadly, this goes completely against the teachings of Martin Luther King, Jr. who said he had a dream where all could be EQUAL. Sadly, such a great visionary and leader had his words and meanings completely missed.

reply to post by BradKell



Hey there Brad - thanks for the PM - to be honest I was too tired today to do much so I needed a break - I'm old..LOL

okay here's my take on your question- Bear with me -
there are such laws and I am not in agreement with this approach - in fact I will argue first against MLK and welfare( which is under reform now but the damage has been done) - because the result of the civil rights movement the way it was conducted has been the destruction of the Black family -

but lets start with Welfare:

When welfare was instituted - Women who applied for aid to dependent children were told that if there was a father living at home the mother would not receive aid - I experienced this myself 34 years ago and I think this regulation is still on the books - in the beginning black fathers literally moved out of their homes so their children could eat - then as time went on it became a way of life - because without a father in the home the family changes, and though I respect the hell out of single moms I know what it takes to raise a son - it takes two parents - call me old fashioned But the effect on Black communities has been devastating....I believe the democrats came up with this insidious idea....what kind of mind comes up with this kind of sh*t? The father is out of work so lets penalize the family further and break them up...This is what the white slave owners did for fk sake! But generations of Black men had been trained by their own mothers (to keep them from being killed)to take it up the * by the very same system so they dutifully did so again...so when I speak of the consequences of slavery that are ongoing its this kind of thing I mean - the mind set...

As to MLK, I respect his bravery and his oratory and his ideals and I was right there in the front row in D.C. at the time - BUT - all the energy that was put into desegregating the schools and sending Black children into the midst of some of the most hateful conditions, the bombings, the murders during those first busings- if all this considerable manpower had instead been put into building and funding the best schools and providing the best education money could buy the outcome would have been different, garnered more respect and less resentment from the White community.....and as a result our children would have better education, better communities and more investment in the American Dream...

The civil rights movement produced more "rights" but at what cost? Black schools are still neglected for the most part and welfare brought the Black community a plague of fatherless children and a lot of despair...

Now after being granted the right to sit at the front of the bus or anywhere else, and the right to walk down the same side of the street as a white person - we are still trying to legislate people's attitudes and even the playing field? - Personally I would rather have a better education than a seat at the front of the bus if I had to choose...then I could start my own damn bus company...

and though I may have disagreements with people like Wright and other Black Liberation Theologists I have no real complaint because they are fighters not beggars...and they work tirelessly in their own communities to provide real solutions...

Edit - So the laws you mentioned are by default out of the same mold that created the problem in the first place....there's a saying - dare I mention it - oh why not - you can't put new wine into old wine skins and that is exactly what these laws represent....do I have an answer to it? EDUCATION - EDUCATION, EDUCATION.








[edit on 28-5-2008 by realshanti]

Originally posted by kosmicjack
First, as Karl Rove is a notorious dirty hack, who even his own party can't stand, and as he is likely to be indicted for refusing to testify before Congress, he is hardly a reputable source.

For a piece of his handiwork, with ongoing and extremely worrying consequences for any *actually* loyal US citzen, go here.

Describing a 1994 judicial race in Alabama, in which Karl Rove advised one candidate, Green reports that in the midst of a tense re-count, unsubstantiated whispers circulated that the election had been stolen by—among other things—a Democratic strategy of "votes being cast in absentia for comatose nursing-home patients

but I have real difficulty in describing a political operator who split the nation in two, won by the most razor-thin margins ever and made his candidate's endorsement political poison to his successor as being "brilliant". Any jerk can wield a wedge.

I think it's curious that, until Michelle Obama, few spouses of candidates or political figures have had to endure such criticism and speculation beyond what are their favorite recipes and charities.

I find it enjoyably ironic that Nancy did the thinking for eight years but drew no scrutiny, Barbara gave the world her "beautiful mind" speech, and Laura gave us this crap along with a drunken daughter and got nothing while Hillary attempted to give the US Health Care and got flattened for it.

But a woman who tells you that this is the first time in her life she has been truly proud of America is just publicly stupid enough to set herself and the nation up for this kind of crap.

However, tactical genius,but strategic loser, that he is, Karl is smart enough to know that even the mere rumour of such a tape is all it takes to get the non-congoscenti of the blogosphere foaming at the mouth at each other and the money coming in to the campaign coffers. How long until this rumour makes the op-eds?

As for "whitey" having any sting, I thought this particular comment had destroyed that...

John Shaft: When you lead your revolution, whitey better be standing still because you don't run worth a damn no more.

or perhaps the GOP just don't know who the black private dick who's a sex-machine to ALL the chicks is...

and, this just in, Rev Wright, even Undercover Brother has a WHITE girlfriend...

edit: links

[edit on 28-5-2008 by HowlrunnerIV]

Originally posted by wytworm
reply to post by realshanti

 

presented facts, experience, and history to back up my arguments

...except you didn't..

except I did and many times over........*SNIP*

Mod Edit: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 28/5/2008 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by realshanti


This is what I'm talking about. Now we are getting somewhere. If people talk logically enough for long enough eventually some mutual understanding occurs, at the least.

The laws were put in place due to public outcry. With out this outcry (and there very well should have been such, as an entire Race was being persecuted) and members of that Race stepping forward, these laws would not have been instituted. This shows a change of power, if you will. Once the Civil Rights Movements started, power changed.

This would have been Wonderful, if it had followed MLK, JR's model of Equality. This is not how it was done. It was done in an 'Edge/Advantage' way. I can whole-heartedly see some conspiricy of sorts, then, by those who held the power previously to try to fine print these changes to be less effective (the improper stating of the Welfare Act, thus tearing apart families).

You seem, though correct me if I'm mistaken, to feel that alot of these laws have (1) destroyed the Black Family Pride, (2) made a percentage of Black's dependant on Government instead of Self, (3) and made some Blacks the exact thing they fight against... by definition Racist (though I use the term Reverse-Racism to be a bit more PC).

I have no problem with people of any Race, though I have plenty of problem with certain Individual People. That's how I happen to work, judging each on his/her own actions. What I feel is that a great leader had an idea, others jumped on the band wagon to get some of that power and control and bastardized his idea... corrupted it.

If Equality is what is seeked, then all things based on Race must be lost AT LEAST FROM GOVERNMENT AND EDUCATION. Black Churches? Fine. Never met one that wouldn't let me in the door. But "Black Colleges" or any College that has questionable acceptance measures for that matter (meaning there shouldn't be White Colleges, either) and Quota's for hiring? That's not equality.

I would love to say I have the answers, that I can fix the problem. I can't. I'm a fairly smart person, but some things do escape me. However, something must be done. And not just by the Minorities. The ghettos, barrios and trailer parks must all have there voice heard... and all be willing to change certain perspectives, to become more accepting as a whole of others.

This is where people with experiance (as you surely have, RealShanti) from all groups, and people with a way to fix things in our system get together to find a balance. Without Balance, all things fall.

Realshanti and Bradhell, this country would be a better place if we had more thinking people like you two.

Most of this theard was a complete waste of time but I enjoyed reading the post you two wrote because they were clearly written by people who, not only did a great job of writing there opinion but, also you guys were humble enough to take the time to try and see the others point without feeling attacked.

I wish I could of gavin you both more stars.

Americans need to wake up and stop looking at the world from their tiny views. Open your eyes, meet some new people, you'd see that alot of your preconcived opinions about a group of people are truly FALSE!.

As for the tape that is rumored, well I think posting a thread about a rumored tape the might exist demonstrates the lack of...how can I say this nicely...education and logic that some people are missing.

I'm mean seriously people, some of you are truely worked up about a rumor A rumor people.

God helps us if this is what this country has to offer the world. I'll keep looking for threads about things that matter cause i'm certainly not going to waste my energy debating a RUMOR! What is this 5th grade?????

Originally posted by whoreallyknows
I think posting a thread about a rumored tape the might exist demonstrates the lack of...how can I say this nicely...education and logic that some people are missing.

:shk: Think what you like .. but you are WRONG. The whole point of this site is to discuss and hopefully either verify or debunk things like this. (guess you missed that, eh?)

i'm certainly not going to waste my energy debating a RUMOR! What is this 5th grade?????

Apparently you just did. Guess that makes you a 5th grader, eh?

reply to post by whoreallyknows


I appreciate your support, WhoReallyKnows, and thank you kindly for the compliments.

However, these Rumors do two things. They challange people to not accept the status quo, to look beyond. Are there things covered up, hidden? If so, they should be brought to light.

Secondly, they start conversation... communication. If we do not discuss such issues then no ground is gained, no understanding is gleaned.

I see the Rumor of this tape no differently than I see the Myth of King Solomon's Ring or the Priory of the Scion... something difficult to figure out yet worth attention. Because IF IT IS TRUE... it gives us alot of information. If it is not true, it is one less thing to be followed on freeing us up to study other things.

Rumors are as important as facts, because time has proven repeatedly that some rumors turn to facts. It is only close scrutiny of a situation that serious understanding can occur. If these Tapes exist, then perhaps such topics will help unearth them... and if these Tapes don't exist then surely the searches will come up bare thus proving such.

If you wish to study other things, that is fine and well. I simply disagree that such Rumors are worthless.

Text Michelle Obama is entitled to her opinions and to express those opinions in any manner she chooses, BUT, a "First Lady" using a term like "whitey" is a HUGE issue, and should be examined.

I rather "doubt" if the media, or the American people would dismiss it if McCain's wife used the 'n-word.' That would be a big deal. Well guess what? It has to work both ways. Sorry. IF Michelle Obama said that, she should NOT be First Lady of this country. Period.

Miami, FL reply to post by kosmicjack

She, like most blacks in this country, should be angry. Many are still held in poverty by our classist structure, oppressed in education by our unequal public education system, and bashed for speaking out loud about it.

Get a clue whitey, it's time to upset your paradigm.

It's not particularly fair, nor particularly accurate, but from this distance (14,000 klicks or so) the thought that springs to my mind is:

Who reads the tea leaves for the producers of 24?